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RfD: EKEY return values   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #59 of 425 |
Re: [forth200x] 2nd RfD: EKEY return values

> Yes. It's certainly not useful for programs that run on computers
> without keyboards.

KEY is not just used for keyboards! On our systems, both desktop
and embedded, KEY, EMIT and friends can be vectored on a
task/thread/callback specific basis to an i/o device, e.g. file
or serial channel.

> > IMHO it introduces
> > unspecified linkages between KEY, KEY? and ACCEPT and EKEY,
> > EKEY? and EKEY>CHAR. These linkages need to be explicit
> > (defined).

If you want to write an editor, one set of keys is for GUI
control and you might use EKEY for these. Another set is for
text, and you might use KEY for these. What are the tasking
implications when KEY and EKEY are used on the same device
channel?

If you process a key down event in your proposal, what impact if
any does it have on KEY?

> I think that demonstrates that the proposal is not tied
> to specific hardware chips.

Two PCs running Linux, both with keyboards defined around the
original 8042 implementation. Come on, hardware in these terms
is defined by chipsets, not by kilometers of separation.

Stephen
--
Stephen Pelc, stephen@...
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads




Mon Jun 5, 2006 11:00 am

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Message #59 of 425 |
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... Yes. It's certainly not useful for programs that run on computers without keyboards. ... No such linkages are intended. Why do you think that this...
Anton Ertl
anton@...
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Jun 3, 2006
2:39 pm

... KEY is not just used for keyboards! On our systems, both desktop and embedded, KEY, EMIT and friends can be vectored on a task/thread/callback specific...
Stephen Pelc
sfprem
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Jun 5, 2006
11:01 am

... Not really. The PC has a 8042 based keyboard, which is then translated to the X keyboard event (which is an abstraction for quite a number of different...
Bernd Paysan
berndpaysan
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Jun 5, 2006
1:05 pm

... I take your point, but both start from the Linux kernel and libc. There are other operating systems. The point at issue is really that the proposal seems...
Stephen Pelc
sfprem
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Jun 5, 2006
2:55 pm

... From VAX to zSeries: They all can work with X servers, by mapping key strokes to KeySyms. And the same works on Windows and Mac OS, which are again...
Bernd Paysan
berndpaysan
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Jun 5, 2006
5:01 pm

... Not all desktops are PCs, or has this become a generic term for a desktop computer? ... My question was under the O/S API. I doubt if gForth does, and a ...
Stephen Pelc
sfprem
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Jun 5, 2006
11:10 pm

... Well, originally a PC was a "personal computer", i.e. one for yourself, not one with a terminal attached. Seems to be similar to the term "desktop...
Bernd Paysan
berndpaysan
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Jun 6, 2006
12:04 am

... EKEY? should return true if EKEY won't block. KEY? should return true if KEY won't block. If KEY just discards the PgUp key and then waits for you to type...
Anton Ertl
anton@...
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Jun 6, 2006
7:13 am

... But you're still assuming X or some OS intermediary between you and the chipset. There are purely native PC Forths, such as Greg Bailey's, not to mention...
Elizabeth D Rather
erather
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Jun 6, 2006
12:19 am

... I don't see a problem there. Your EKEY will do on these devices whatever it has always done. If that does not include recognizing cursor and function...
Anton Ertl
anton@...
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Jun 6, 2006
7:05 am

... If I write a program, that uses certain keys, I want to know if they are there. If I want to make it usable on systems that don't provide them, I would use...
Robert Epprecht
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Jun 6, 2006
3:18 pm

... The Forth system may not know if the keys are available. Gforth certainly does not know it (and even if they are available on the system, they might...
Anton Ertl
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Jun 18, 2006
8:42 pm

... Valid points. ... I do. But I also use a lot of key bindings in my programs as they are often much more convenient then the 'other means'. So I often run...
Robert Epprecht
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Jun 21, 2006
1:16 pm

... I may start to see what the point of this labeling stuff is: If you sell a Forth system for a keyboard-less embedded system to some customers, and they ask...
Anton Ertl
anton@...
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Jun 6, 2006
7:40 am

... Partly. Let's change desktop to PC from now on. The behaviour of KEY or EKEY on a PC depends on what they are connected to. The EKEY return value proposal...
Stephen Pelc
sfprem
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Jun 6, 2006
10:36 am

... Yes. So I don't see what the problem is. ... Sounds fine to me. Although I wonder why you would need to change even that. What does it currently do if...
Anton Ertl
anton@...
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Jun 18, 2006
9:29 pm

... Or the Forth200x standard could make it clear somehow, that parts of it which are not relevant on a certain system and hardware can be omitted without...
Robert Epprecht
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Jun 6, 2006
2:35 pm

... If you read the "Compliance and Labeling" sections of the current standard, you'll see that it bends over backwards to make this clear. The Core wordset is...
Elizabeth D Rather
erather
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Jun 6, 2006
6:48 pm

In Open Firmware land, we stopped using the IEEE standardization process and starting labeling every new thing as a "Recommended Practice". That worked really...
Mitch Bradley
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Jun 6, 2006
9:10 pm

... Interesting. We have had some discussions on whether and how to work with an official standards body. - anton...
Anton Ertl
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Jun 18, 2006
8:17 pm

A data point, for what it's worth: In Quartus Forth (for Palm Pilots), EKEY returns 'event_type', a value from a rather small set. To get anything...
Mitch Bradley
wmb@...
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Jun 6, 2006
9:23 pm

... Thanks for the info. I will contact Neal Bridges and as him what he thinks about the proposal. ... Yes, there were some discussions on comp.lang.forth...
Anton Ertl
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Jun 18, 2006
8:10 pm

... What I meant by the note was that EKEY might be vectored, so that the user could point it at different keyboards with different extended code sets. The...
Mitch Bradley
wmb@...
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Jun 18, 2006
11:24 pm

... Well, that seems to be outside standardisation (at least at the moment), so if a system supports that, I would expect it to clarify what happens in this...
Anton Ertl
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Jun 19, 2006
8:42 pm

... okay by me....
Mitch Bradley
wmb@...
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Jun 20, 2006
11:12 pm

... The normal case would be that KEY ignores the <cursor down>, so KEY? should return false. The abnormal case is if the <cursor down> is visible as escape...
Anton Ertl
anton@...
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Jun 18, 2006
10:03 pm

... If you then use KEY and no further magic key events occur, what does/should EKEY? then return? Stephen...
stephen@...
sfprem
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Jun 19, 2006
8:35 am

... If KEY has consumed all key events, and therefore EKEY would block, EKEY? should return false. - anton...
Anton Ertl
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Jun 19, 2006
9:46 am
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