forth200x : Message: Re: [forth200x] 2nd RfD: EKEY return values

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RfD: EKEY return values

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Message #60 of 425 |

Re: [forth200x] 2nd RfD: EKEY return values

On Monday 05 June 2006 13:00, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> > I think that demonstrates that the proposal is not tied
> > to specific hardware chips.
>
> Two PCs running Linux, both with keyboards defined around the
> original 8042 implementation. Come on, hardware in these terms
> is defined by chipsets, not by kilometers of separation.

Not really. The PC has a 8042 based keyboard, which is then translated
to the X keyboard event (which is an abstraction for quite a number of
different possible keyboards, and developed when Linux PCs where not
even thought about). It then goes into a xterm, which emulates a VT102
terminal.

I don't see how a specific chip is involved here. We never see the PC
scancodes the 8042 delivers to the PC. In fact, since X offers similar
Keysym constants for what we propose, and runs on a huge variety of
different keyboards, this seems to be sound. If you have F1 to F12
keypads, you *can* define constants for those.

--
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/

Mon Jun 5, 2006 1:04 pm

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Message #60 of 425 |

Expand Messages	Author	Sort by Date
... KEY is not just used for keyboards! On our systems, both desktop and embedded, KEY, EMIT and friends can be vectored on a task/thread/callback specific...	Stephen Pelc sfprem	Jun 5, 2006 11:01 am
... Not really. The PC has a 8042 based keyboard, which is then translated to the X keyboard event (which is an abstraction for quite a number of different...	Bernd Paysan berndpaysan	Jun 5, 2006 1:05 pm
... I take your point, but both start from the Linux kernel and libc. There are other operating systems. The point at issue is really that the proposal seems...	Stephen Pelc sfprem	Jun 5, 2006 2:55 pm
... From VAX to zSeries: They all can work with X servers, by mapping key strokes to KeySyms. And the same works on Windows and Mac OS, which are again...	Bernd Paysan berndpaysan	Jun 5, 2006 5:01 pm
... Not all desktops are PCs, or has this become a generic term for a desktop computer? ... My question was under the O/S API. I doubt if gForth does, and a ...	Stephen Pelc sfprem	Jun 5, 2006 11:10 pm
... Well, originally a PC was a "personal computer", i.e. one for yourself, not one with a terminal attached. Seems to be similar to the term "desktop...	Bernd Paysan berndpaysan	Jun 6, 2006 12:04 am
... EKEY? should return true if EKEY won't block. KEY? should return true if KEY won't block. If KEY just discards the PgUp key and then waits for you to type...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 6, 2006 7:13 am
... But you're still assuming X or some OS intermediary between you and the chipset. There are purely native PC Forths, such as Greg Bailey's, not to mention...	Elizabeth D Rather erather	Jun 6, 2006 12:19 am
... I don't see a problem there. Your EKEY will do on these devices whatever it has always done. If that does not include recognizing cursor and function...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 6, 2006 7:05 am
... If I write a program, that uses certain keys, I want to know if they are there. If I want to make it usable on systems that don't provide them, I would use...	Robert Epprecht epprecht@...	Jun 6, 2006 3:18 pm
... The Forth system may not know if the keys are available. Gforth certainly does not know it (and even if they are available on the system, they might...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 18, 2006 8:42 pm
... Valid points. ... I do. But I also use a lot of key bindings in my programs as they are often much more convenient then the 'other means'. So I often run...	Robert Epprecht epprecht@...	Jun 21, 2006 1:16 pm
... I may start to see what the point of this labeling stuff is: If you sell a Forth system for a keyboard-less embedded system to some customers, and they ask...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 6, 2006 7:40 am
... Partly. Let's change desktop to PC from now on. The behaviour of KEY or EKEY on a PC depends on what they are connected to. The EKEY return value proposal...	Stephen Pelc sfprem	Jun 6, 2006 10:36 am
... Yes. So I don't see what the problem is. ... Sounds fine to me. Although I wonder why you would need to change even that. What does it currently do if...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 18, 2006 9:29 pm
... Or the Forth200x standard could make it clear somehow, that parts of it which are not relevant on a certain system and hardware can be omitted without...	Robert Epprecht epprecht@...	Jun 6, 2006 2:35 pm
... If you read the "Compliance and Labeling" sections of the current standard, you'll see that it bends over backwards to make this clear. The Core wordset is...	Elizabeth D Rather erather	Jun 6, 2006 6:48 pm
In Open Firmware land, we stopped using the IEEE standardization process and starting labeling every new thing as a "Recommended Practice". That worked really...	Mitch Bradley wmb@...	Jun 6, 2006 9:10 pm
... Interesting. We have had some discussions on whether and how to work with an official standards body. - anton...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 18, 2006 8:17 pm
A data point, for what it's worth: In Quartus Forth (for Palm Pilots), EKEY returns 'event_type', a value from a rather small set. To get anything...	Mitch Bradley wmb@...	Jun 6, 2006 9:23 pm
... Thanks for the info. I will contact Neal Bridges and as him what he thinks about the proposal. ... Yes, there were some discussions on comp.lang.forth...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 18, 2006 8:10 pm
... What I meant by the note was that EKEY might be vectored, so that the user could point it at different keyboards with different extended code sets. The...	Mitch Bradley wmb@...	Jun 18, 2006 11:24 pm
... Well, that seems to be outside standardisation (at least at the moment), so if a system supports that, I would expect it to clarify what happens in this...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 19, 2006 8:42 pm
... okay by me....	Mitch Bradley wmb@...	Jun 20, 2006 11:12 pm
... The normal case would be that KEY ignores the <cursor down>, so KEY? should return false. The abnormal case is if the <cursor down> is visible as escape...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 18, 2006 10:03 pm
... If you then use KEY and no further magic key events occur, what does/should EKEY? then return? Stephen...	stephen@... sfprem	Jun 19, 2006 8:35 am
... If KEY has consumed all key events, and therefore EKEY would block, EKEY? should return false. - anton...	Anton Ertl anton@...	Jun 19, 2006 9:46 am

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