--- Jerry Decker wrote:

> Subject: [Keelynet] Pro & Con about Minato
> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:15:10 -0500
>
> Hola Folks!
>
> Mark Goldes wrote this interesting comment to
> Beaty's Vortex list;
>
> http://escribe.com/science/vortex/m30242.html
>
> Minato is a professional musician, and not an
> electrical engineer. He
> has spent the last 30 years developing his
> magnetic motors. Until the
> Jap@an Inc. article appeared last month, he
> apparently spent a long
> period without publicity, working to overcome
> the problems which indeed
> existed in his earlier variations.
>
> The videos released with the article suggest to
> at least one engineer
> with a great deal of background in building and
> evaluating similar
> machines, (the type of person the patent office
> refers to as “skilled in
> the art”), that he is now producing motors
> which exceed unity. In the
> case of his air conditioner blower motor,
> apparently by 300%.
>
> This is close to a slightly higher figure
> mentioned in the article. He
> claims two independent labs have validated his
> motors in Japan, but no
> release of those tests has appeared to my
> knowledge, at least as yet.
> The ultimate test of his claims will be made in
> the marketplace. The
> bulk of the 40,000 motors he claims have been
> ordered are fan motors for
> computers.
>
> The margin by which they apparently exceed
> unity is very slight, and
> therefore not likely to prove conclusive. If
> blower motors become
> available for purchase, and therefore
> independent tests, and indeed
> confirm apparent efficiency of 300%, his claims
> will be vindicated.
> Conversion of vacuum, or Zero Point, Energy by
> means of magnetic
> materials appears to be possible.
>
> Over the coming months, this may prove to be a
> potential source of the
> “excess” energy.
>
> While it is entirely possible Minato will prove
> to be a scammer, I very
> much doubt that will prove to be the case. As
> to having a machine
> self-run, that is indeed the ultimate test.
> However, while that
> requirement appears very logical, the
> engineering involved is much more
> of a challenge than is generally realized.
>
> That said, I believe general acceptance of Over
> Unity devices will
> require precisely that achievement.
> Preferably, in a demonstration
> device, or a toy, that can be widely reproduced
> and readily purchased by
> anyone interested.
>
> Mark Goldes
> Chairman & CEO
> Magnetic Power Inc.
> ------------------------
> followed by this negative comment;
>
> http://escribe.com/science/vortex/m30241.html
>
> Steven Vincent Johnson writes,
>
> > I really don't know if Minato is the genuine
> article or not. I'd like to
> > hope that he is.
>
> I see by the artwork on your website that you
> are a bit of a
> visionary... which pretty much goes along with
> the sentiments that you
> are expressing. If you don't mind me saying so,
> you seem a bit obsessed
> with this Minato story... if you are basing
> your optimism on your own
> experiments with magnetic motors, then that
> background might cast your
> comments in a different light, so let us know
> if that is the case.
>
> Everyone on this forum *hopes* Minato is
> genuine too, and many of us
> consider ourselves to be visionaries of a sort
> - but perhaps a bit more
> grounded in reality - in that most of us allow
> 'experience' to be the
> guide in regard to being able to weigh the
> potential of over-reaching
> claims like these. There has been an almost
> endless parade of similar
> styled self-deceptions which have appeared from
> many similar types of
> inventors over the years, sharing many common
> traits - mostly of the
> type associated "inventor's disease."
> There used to be an essay on Bill B's site
> about this, and it is worth
> hunting down if you are not familiar with it.
>
> Despite personally having an almost blinding
> optimism for some promising
> alternative energy ideas, my take on this one
> from Minato was negative
> from day-one, and that was many years ago - and
> nothing has changed
> since then. This whole announcement procedure
> is not the way a scientist
> handles a significant discovery in any field,
> especially not in a field
> where scams have been so common in the past...
>
> Let's face it, 'promising ideas' must be
> acknowledged as either having
> some basis in fact...or in theory... or at
> least in a decent degree of
> probability based on the credentials of the
> experimenter. It is a lot
> saner to be duped by a PhD professor with 40
> years experience and an
> open agenda (no hidden financial motives), then
> a by a rock musician
> with a few years of dubious claims, no
> validated results, zero
> credentials, and a closed agenda with respect
> to outside accountability.
>
> Minato's story simply has the 'look-and-feel'
> of self-deception or
> worse... for many reasons, the most obvious
> being the two that you
> tacitly acknowledge - there being no theory
> that can account or predict
> it and the second problem being how amazingly
> easy it would be to
> demonstrate overunity IF it were true. The lack
> of good theory is not
> fatal in and of itself - after all, much
> advance in science is
> serendipitous and/or inspired by factors that
> cannot be scientifically
> accounted for, but that combined with Minato's
> clear ignorance of
> electrical engineering, his furtive
> unscientific nature and obvious
> attempts at PR and fund-raising... yes, those
> traits are usually the
> "dead give-away" of the scam-artist.
>
> Let's make it clear that this thing could even
> turn out to be slightly
> OU to the extent that it will self-power for a
> few days or weeks with no
> load, yet still not be able to create useful
> work to power an external
> load. If that is the situation, he should
> realize that the idea is still
> valuable as a emonstration or even as a *toy*
> like the Levitron... so go
> out and PROVE that it can self-spin with no
> load. The fact that he has
> not done this after many years of trying is
> clearly indicative of only
> one fact - the fact that he cannot do so.
>
> > "However, the Osaka banker stands up after
> the lecture and announces that before he goes,
> he will commit \100 million to the investment
> pool."
>
> Well, that 'huge sum' is less than $100,000 US,
> so don't read too much
> into it - it is laughable as a meaningful sum
> from an American
> investment banker. Here in the USA, if you
> can't loose 100 times that
> much without flinching, it's really not worth
> the effort for the
> off-chance of getting in on the ground floor of
> the "next big thing".
>
> This is unlikely to be the
> next-big-thing...except to the extent that it
> is the potential next big scam. Yes, it could
> even turn out to be
> slightly OU to the extent that it will
> self-rotate for a few days or
> weeks, and that would be HUGE in theoretical
> significance... yet it
> would still not be useful as a way power an
> external load. Let's don't
> even give him credit for the self-spinner until
> it is demonstrated in
> public.
>
> > "I also suspect there many in this group that
> would bend over backwards to lend Minato and
> hand, IF THEY COULD BE CONVINCED THAT HIS
> CLAIMS ARE VALID."
>
> Think about it - how amazingly easy it would be
> to convince any skeptic
> - IF Minato really had anything of value - to
> put it on display as a
> simple self-runner. Again, the fact that he has
> not done this after many
> years of trying is indicative of the fact that
> he cannot do so, and
> consequently his present status appears of no
> greater importance than
> your average free-energy scammer like Dennis
> Lee. For your sake, I'm
> glad that you didn't hear about Dennis Lee
> first.
>
> > In the mean time, who of us can still
> remember those immortal words: "Follow the
> money!"
>
> That is a bit deceiving - unless it is truly
> "big money". A more
> appropriate aphorism in regard to Minato would
> be "there's a sucker born
> every day"...
>
> Regards,
>
> Jones Beene
> -----------------------
> There are sufficient magnetic anomalies and
> apparent duplications with
> such pulsed magnet motors (Lutec, Adams,
> Konzen, Gray, etc.) showing
> there does appear to be a spin component in
> so-called static magnets as
> well as producing a repulsive force at just the
> right time to drive a
> motor, I think to make Minato a very good
> candidate for having a working
> machine...of course, self-running would be
> indisputable;
>
> http://www.keelynet.com/ohsako/ohsako.htm
>
> http://www.lutec.com.au/
>
> --
> Jerry W. Decker -
> http://www.keelynet.com
> from an Art to a Science - order out of
> Chaos
> discussion archive -
> http://escribe.com/science/keelynet
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