--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Schum" <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
>
> It doesn't seem to me that these can be the same, since Miklos'
> thruster does not produce an ion-wind.  The MK-1 IAF thruster
> 1.  Works only in the atmosphere.
> 2.  Runs by producing ion-wind.
>
> TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS!

Actually, nobody knows for sure if Miklos' thruster uses an ion wind,
or not. He says it doesn't but has never really tested it to be sure.
Further, he has never tested his device in a hard (~10e-6 torr)
vacuum, so it likely "works only in the atmosphere," too.

Sounds familiar to me...

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070924/full/070924-8.html

Gary,

Thanks for posting the link!

You know, now that you mention it, it looks exactly the same as
my "Ocean Irrigation" idea, first download on my website, dated Nov 12,
2006.  The wide pipes 300 meters long, the wave-powered pumping
stations dispersed over 80% of the earth's oceans, it all looks quite
familiar.

I sent a feedback email to Nature, pointing out the similarities with a
link to the download on my website.

If I was the first to think of this idea, it doesn't really matter.

What matters is that it might have a beneficial effect, regardless of
who got the idea first. I was told in 2006 by Planktos.com that the
idea was old, but they would not provide any details.  So, hard to tell
if they were in the know, or not.  Planktos was interested in seeding
so they were not the ones to ask anyway.  But they did not refer me to
anyone, either, since if this idea catches on, it will "precipitate"
the end of Planktos.

Tom Schum

PS my website is: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzesfls5/files/

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Gary S." <garys_2k@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds familiar to me...
>
> http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070924/full/070924-8.html
>

My new PVC tube thruster moves faster as the previous
(as `thruster15.wmv`, wich was also very good), and it
works on lower voltage, on 40kV. Previous worked on
50kV.
I`d test very good about air moving (with smoke test),
there is no ion-wind. You can see this very fast
thruster in video `thruster16.wmv` on my link:

http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm

Regards:
Miklos



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Do any of the videos show the smoke test?

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Miklós" "Borbás"
<borbasmiklos@...> wrote:
>
> My new PVC tube thruster moves faster as the previous
> (as `thruster15.wmv`, wich was also very good), and it
> works on lower voltage, on 40kV. Previous worked on
> 50kV.
> I`d test very good about air moving (with smoke test),
> there is no ion-wind. You can see this very fast
> thruster in video `thruster16.wmv` on my link:
>
> http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm
>
> Regards:
> Miklos
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket:
mail, news, photos & more.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
>

I wonder, how many of you 'out there' are REALY
interested in perpetual motion ------- if any of you
are, --- please contact me.

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, PAMELA NEIL <pamela.neil@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder, how many of you 'out there' are REALY
> interested in perpetual motion ------- if any of you
> are, --- please contact me.
>

I'd have to think most of us are. What do you have?

Hi, my name is Ben, Im from Canada and Im interested in over unity
energy.  I have plans to create either a water fuel cell or a joe's
cell.  Anyone who may have usefull information to share on either of
these two types of cells, I would be most thankful.

Today I made an extra fast PVC tube thruster. It works
on 40kV, and makes 9 rotations/minute. I think, it
produce circa 5 times greater thrust as the previous
(as `thruster16.wmv`, wich was also very good).
And I didn`t detect ion-wind!
You can see this thruster in video `thruster17.wmv`:

http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm

Regards:
Miklos


      
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Miklos,

I have to agree with Gary that a video "proof" of NO ION WIND would
be very important!  Can you do that?

Tom Schum

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Miklós" "Borbás"
<borbasmiklos@...> wrote:
>
> Today I made an extra fast PVC tube thruster. It works
> on 40kV, and makes 9 rotations/minute. I think, it
> produce circa 5 times greater thrust as the previous
> (as `thruster16.wmv`, wich was also very good).
> And I didn`t detect ion-wind!
> You can see this thruster in video `thruster17.wmv`:
>
> http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm
>
> Regards:
> Miklos
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel
today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>

I wouldn't call a video "proof" of whether an ion wind was
responsible, or not, but it would be interesting to see how the device
worked in an environment that showed air motion.

Also, it's not necessarily an ion wind that could provide propulsion
while still relying on ions. It's possible that ions are produced by
one pole of the charge and the device is attracted to that cloud. No
"wind" is providing action-reaction propulsion, but nevertheless ions
are involved.

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Schum" <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
>
> Miklos,
>
> I have to agree with Gary that a video "proof" of NO ION WIND would
> be very important!  Can you do that?
>
> Tom Schum
>
> --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Miklós" "Borbás"
> <borbasmiklos@> wrote:
> >
> > Today I made an extra fast PVC tube thruster. It works
> > on 40kV, and makes 9 rotations/minute. I think, it
> > produce circa 5 times greater thrust as the previous
> > (as `thruster16.wmv`, wich was also very good).
> > And I didn`t detect ion-wind!
> > You can see this thruster in video `thruster17.wmv`:
> >
> > http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm
> >
> > Regards:
> > Miklos
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________
> > Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel
> today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >
>

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Schum" <thomasjschum@...>
wrote:
>
> Miklos,
>
> I have to agree with Gary that a video "proof" of NO ION WIND would
> be very important!  Can you do that?
>
> Tom Schum

and also a measure of current would be precious. If there is no ion
wind, where the current goes through?

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, François Guillet
<guillet.francois@...> wrote:
>
> and also a measure of current would be precious. If there is no ion
> wind, where the current goes through?
>

From what Miklos has described, there is a strong ion wind INSIDE the
thruster, which has no direct effect on the outside world (no ion
wind outside the thruster).

This internal flow of ions has a physical linkage to the aether, and
this linkage is exploited for thrust.  This linkage to the aether may
be an original concept of Miklos, I think.

Electric current is needed in order to support the internal operation
of the thruster, since it causes and maintains the flow of ions
inside the thruster.

There is some experimental support for this "linkage to the aether",
if you choose to think of it this way, in the self-organizing
behavior of free plasmas such as ball lightning.  Since this
viewpoint is not mainstream, Miklos would upset a lot of apple carts
if his thruster turns out to really work.  It would prove the
existence of the aether beyond any controversy.

This is why the skeptics look so much for the ion wind that has been
seen very often in tests of other thrusters.

"Proving" that there is no ion wind might be difficult, since the
wiring to and from the thruster would itself cause some ion wind.
The solution might be to mount the high voltage power supply (and the
batteries that power it) directly to the outside of the thruster.
Then the system would have to be made so that any external ion wind
(from the small amount of high voltage wiring external to the
thruster, and from electric fields radiating from the thruster)
cancels itself out.

At this point, a new technical problem would arise: to find a bearing
to support the system and allow it to move with the small amount of
force that the thruster generates.  It might be like suspending an
elephant on a turntable, then rotating this elephant with the force
of a grasshopper.  Quite a good bearing would be needed.

Tom Schum

Hello!
I am a researcher who has Japan.
This theory succeeded in the union of gravity and electromagnetism.
It introduces the result of obtaining from the Space-Time Theory.

**** A new Equation of Free-fall of the Material-point. ****

The matrix B_{ij} define as follows.

B_{11}=B_{22}=B_{33}=-1 , B_{44}=1  ,  others B_{ij}=0
(i,j=1,2,3,4) .

Suppose that
the new model of Newton's space-time have light-cones uB_{ij}.
Here, u is a real number field.
Let a curve x^i(t)  be the free-fall of the material-point.
The new equation of free-fall of the material-point is the following.


dv^n/dt = - K(F_n - bA_n )�@-�@(K/cc)(F_4 - bQ)v^n
..... K = 1 - vv/(cc) , (n=1,2,3)

t : time (=x^4/c)
v^n : velocity of the material-point (=dx^n/dt)
P : gravity potential ...u=exp(2P)
F_n : partial differential of P by x^n  (gravity)
F_4 : partial differential of P by t
cc : 2 power of light velocity
vv : 2 power of velocity�@
(A_1,A_2,A_3,Q/c)�@:  vector potential of electromagnetism.
b : new physical constant (A/kg)

In this expression ,
the vector potential behaves like gravity.


Please see !!�@
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/japan_miroku/2132399.html

The text for LaTeX was prepared like being legible.

Text1 (s1->s2.2)
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/japan_miroku/17090070.html

Text2 (s2.3)
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/japan_miroku/17090531.html

Text3 (s2.4 s2.5)
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/japan_miroku/17090632.html

Text4 (s3 s3.1)
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/japan_miroku/17090729.html

Text5 (s3.2)
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/japan_miroku/17090959.html

Text6 (s3.3)
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/japan_miroku/17091029.html

Text7 (s3.4)
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/japan_miroku/17091078.html

It is not translated into English though the theory still continues.
The translation is very painful for me.

(Kaluza,Einstein,tensor,5space,gravity,space-time,gauge,mitsuru,)

One smoke test tend about half hour. It`s to long for
a video, and smoke not sees very good with my camera.
If you want to ascertain from failing of ion-wind, you
have to build it and test like Allan Alderson does.

Electric current is simple leaking current through the
thick PVC tube and insulation of ground wire roll.
Current none cross through air, and there are no ions
outside of the thruster (measured by Allan Alderson,
see his letters in Yahoo electrohydrodynamics group).

Miklos

Posted by: "Tom Schum" thomasjschum@...
thomasjschum
Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:19 am (PST)
--- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, Fran€ ¦çois
Guillet
<guillet.francois@ ...> wrote:
>
> and also a measure of current would be precious. If
there is no ion
> wind, where the current goes through?
>

From what Miklos has described, there is a strong ion
wind INSIDE the
thruster, which has no direct effect on the outside
world (no ion
wind outside the thruster).

This internal flow of ions has a physical linkage to
the aether, and
this linkage is exploited for thrust. This linkage to
the aether may
be an original concept of Miklos, I think.

Electric current is needed in order to support the
internal operation
of the thruster, since it causes and maintains the
flow of ions
inside the thruster.

There is some experimental support for this "linkage
to the aether",
if you choose to think of it this way, in the
self-organizing
behavior of free plasmas such as ball lightning. Since
this
viewpoint is not mainstream, Miklos would upset a lot
of apple carts
if his thruster turns out to really work. It would
prove the
existence of the aether beyond any controversy.

This is why the skeptics look so much for the ion wind
that has been
seen very often in tests of other thrusters.

"Proving" that there is no ion wind might be
difficult, since the
wiring to and from the thruster would itself cause
some ion wind.
The solution might be to mount the high voltage power
supply (and the
batteries that power it) directly to the outside of
the thruster.
Then the system would have to be made so that any
external ion wind
(from the small amount of high voltage wiring external
to the
thruster, and from electric fields radiating from the
thruster)
cancels itself out.

At this point, a new technical problem would arise: to
find a bearing
to support the system and allow it to move with the
small amount of
force that the thruster generates. It might be like
suspending an
elephant on a turntable, then rotating this elephant
with the force
of a grasshopper. Quite a good bearing would be
needed.

Tom Schum




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I`d make an usable smoke-test video from my latest PVC
tube thruster. In starting you can see air moving in
fixed position of thruster, later in moving. Air
moving is clear visible. I left you to decide, is this
thruster moven by ion-wind or not. My opinion is,
there is no ion-wind, only parasite air movings in my
room.

A serious smoke test tend about half hour, this is too
long for a video. You can see this smoke-test in video
`smoke1.wmv` on my link:

http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm

Regards:
Miklos



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
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photos & more.
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Miklos,

For a quick and dirty smoke test, it looks pretty good.  I can't see
any difference between the smoke pattern before thruster movement and
the smoke pattern during thruster movement.

You referred to Allan Alderson who is duplicating your work.
The link you gave is:
http://electricimage.com.au/experiments/miklos_tube/

This also is very interesting since he carefully eliminates the ion
wind then sees the propulsion effect increase!

Miklos, I think you have all your ducks in a row!
Congratulations!

Tom Schum

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Miklós" "Borbás"
<borbasmiklos@...> wrote:
>
> I`d make an usable smoke-test video from my latest PVC
> tube thruster. In starting you can see air moving in
> fixed position of thruster, later in moving. Air
> moving is clear visible. I left you to decide, is this
> thruster moven by ion-wind or not. My opinion is,
> there is no ion-wind, only parasite air movings in my
> room.
>
> A serious smoke test tend about half hour, this is too
> long for a video. You can see this smoke-test in video
> `smoke1.wmv` on my link:
>
> http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm
>
> Regards:
> Miklos
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket:
mail, news, photos & more.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
>

I made a better smoke-test video from my latest
thruster. There is air moving in my room much smaller.
In video `smoke2.wmv` you can see that this thruster
none produce any air moving! It`s presented first in
fixed position, later in moving as in the previous
video.

http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm

Regards:
Miklos



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
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--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "japan_miroku_2"
<japan_miroku_2@...> wrote:
>
> Hello!
> I am a researcher who has Japan.
> This theory succeeded in the union of gravity and electromagnetism.
> It introduces the result of obtaining from the Space-Time Theory.
>
> **** A new Equation of Free-fall of the Material-point. ****
>

Do predictions of your theory fit observations? Do you predict
anything at variance with standard theories that could lead to a test
of your theory?

Gary,

Looks like Miklos is not blowing smoke here.  What do you have to say
about this?

Tom Schum

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Miklós" "Borbás"
<borbasmiklos@...> wrote:
>
> I made a better smoke-test video from my latest
> thruster. There is air moving in my room much smaller.
> In video `smoke2.wmv` you can see that this thruster
> none produce any air moving! It`s presented first in
> fixed position, later in moving as in the previous
> video.
>
> http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm
>
> Regards:
> Miklos
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
>

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Gary S." <garys_2k@...> wrote:
>
>
> Do predictions of your theory fit observations? Do you predict
> anything at variance with standard theories that could lead to a test
> of your theory?
>
I agree.  That is the main thing: we need to have a good test.

Hi Pamela!!!
My brother, Doroteo, and I have been interested in the
subject of perpetual motion, or overunity for years.
We believe that the first low thermodinamic also known
as the law of conservation of energy, stablished in
the 1840s, even though is valid for many phisical
process, do not prove that energy cannot be created
and cannot be destroyed. That interpretation of the
law, stablished by Joule and others phisycs of the 18
century, had been one of the greatest mistakes in the
history of science, and discredited the search of
perpetual motion to the point that many people and
physics even feels shame in admiting that they are
searching or believing in that posibility.
What is your interest in the subject? we will be glad
to know.
best regards,
Porfirio.

PD: Have heard the story of orffyreus (Elias Bessler)?
If you haven´t look for it in google.


      
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Have you seen this effect in non-ball bearings?

I thought the bearing motor effect was due to heat expanding the
bearing balls in ball bearings.

A few microamps probably will not produce this kind of heating.

Tom Schum

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "K. Jay Rogozinsky" <et.jayr@...>
wrote:
>
> Ion wind seems to have been eliminated.
>
> One remaining gotcha is the bearing motor effect.
>
> Is electricity passing through a bearing of some kind?
>
> (I have seen this happen, so far, with high current.)
>
>
> Regards,
> KiJa
>

Maybe a simpler test would be adequate:
Simply turn the thruster so it pushes the opposite direction.  No
change to the bearings or the wiring to the bearings.

Current flow thru the bearings is unchanged, and the direction of the
current is unchanged.  So, if the action is due to a bearing motor
phenomenon, the thruster will run backwards rather than the direction
we might expect if the thrust is coming from the thruster.

If the bearing motor effect does not exist, the thruster will push in
the opposite direction, and the rotor on which it is mounted will
rotate in the opposite direction.

Would this sort of test convince you?  It would certainly convince
me, but you know how gullible I am.

Tom Schum

--- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "K. Jay Rogozinsky" <et.jayr@...>
wrote:
>
> "Tom Schum" wrote:
>
> > Have you seen this effect in non-ball bearings?
>
> No(t yet).
>
> > I thought the bearing motor effect was due to
> > heat expanding the bearing balls in ball bearings.
>
> As I understand also.
>
> > A few microamps probably will not produce this
> > kind of heating.
>
> Not the kind of heat that is used as an explanation
> for the typical bearing motor effect.
>
> However, it would appear to be a consideration
> since little is truly known of the effect.
>
> By changing the "angle of connection" and using
> a different "bearing", this could be eliminated as
> a possibility.
>
>
> Regards,
> KiJa
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the free_energy
group.

   File        : /Tom Schum/DHS_conspiracy.pdf
   Uploaded by : thomasjschum <thomasjschum@...>
   Description : DHS Keystroke logger in your laptop

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/free_energy/files/Tom%20Schum/DHS_conspiracy.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

thomasjschum <thomasjschum@...>

Interesting interpretation of a little klingon circuit found in a
laptop.  I posted a PDF file in the files section, and you can also see
the very same data on the author's website.

Author's website is
http://fearthegovernment.com/keystroke_logger.html

If the author's fears that his website will be taken down turn out to
be correct, you can still read the file in the free_energy files
section.

Of course, now it is a couple years later, and this datalogger is going
to be part of all the mainboards of the new laptops out there.  Chances
are, the circuitry will be part of the keyboard encoder chip now, and
completely unrecognizable even to seasoned electronics pros.

Anyone heard of this?  If so, does it bother anyone?

Personally I am happy to tell the department of homeland security
everything I am doing over the internet, so for me it is not an issue.

Tom Schum