I hope that the following does not breach any sort of "spam"
rules on this list as I think this should be of interest to at least
some members.  I have been recently approached by a party who is
interested in selling a 1717 Stradivarius violin.  They claim to have
all available documentation as to provenance and history as well as
photographs of the instrument in question.  I do not know of its
condition or its price yet, but if anyone on this list is interested in
purchasing such an instrument (of course you should all know that it
would constitute a capital investment), please do let me know and I can
find out all necessary and required information.  I myself do not know
whether it is authentic but hope to ascertain this matter conclusively
sooner rather than later.  Needless to say, any serious interested
party would have access to all pertinent evidence and documentation of
origin.  I hope at least one or two of you may find this information
useful.

Regards,

Gabriel Parra-Blessing

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On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Gabriel Parra-Blessing wrote:

> I hope that the following does not breach any sort of "spam"
> rules on this list as I think this should be of interest to at least
> some members.  I have been recently approached by a party who is
> interested in selling a 1717 Stradivarius violin.  They claim to have
> all available documentation as to provenance and history as well as
> photographs of the instrument in question.


.... if its a strad then your freind should take it to Sotheby's or
Christies ASAP, get it valued and have it insured. Failing that they
should find a specialist dealer in the states who can determine who made
it.

The violin's provenance will have to be determined before it can be valued
and sold.

Neil

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Dear All,

Gramophone gives a glowing review to a release of
Walkure Act 1 and Gotterdammerung Act 3 on the
Archipel label.  Fladstad is the Brunnhilde (sigh) and
Furtwangler the conductor (double sigh).  They saifd
the sound and playing is good but from waht I remember
of the 1953 Ring, also recorded by Furtwangler at EMI,
the sound was boxy with the voices too far forward and
the playing decidedly 'haphazard'.

Can anyone recommend the 1952 set?

Many thanks,

David Harbin
Nottingham, UK

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Just a brief note on the possibility of a Stradivarius violin.  Stradivarius
forgeries are perhaps the most plentiful in the world.

A decent Strad (i.e. authentic and also not stolen) would go for $750,000 and
up on the auction market.

So exercise all prudence and caution in such matters.

Best,

Tom Simone
Burlington, Vermont USA

Gabriel Parra-Blessing wrote:

> I hope that the following does not breach any sort of "spam"
> rules on this list as I think this should be of interest to at least
> some members.  I have been recently approached by a party who is
> interested in selling a 1717 Stradivarius violin.  They claim to have
> all available documentation as to provenance and history as well as
> photographs of the instrument in question.  I do not know of its
> condition or its price yet, but if anyone on this list is interested in
> purchasing such an instrument (of course you should all know that it
> would constitute a capital investment), please do let me know and I can
> find out all necessary and required information.  I myself do not know
> whether it is authentic but hope to ascertain this matter conclusively
> sooner rather than later.  Needless to say, any serious interested
> party would have access to all pertinent evidence and documentation of
> origin.  I hope at least one or two of you may find this information
> useful.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gabriel Parra-Blessing
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
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Hello all,

I found this item while searching on eBay.  I'd never seen it before.  Could one
of the list members tell me exactly what it is?

Thanks,

Tim Tucker

Title of item: EXTREMELY RARE FURTWANGLER RECORDINGS: DG/DGG
Seller: 3.5.6
Starts: Aug-06-02 02:08:25 PDT
Ends: Aug-11-02 02:08:25 PDT
Price: Starts at $24.99
To bid on the item, go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=898124719


Item Description:

EXTREMELY RARE FURTWANGLER RECORDINGS ON DG/DGG, NEW/IMPORT 8CD SET!

Brand new, and extremely rare 8-CD set on Deutsche Grammophon (Import!!!), disc
1-7 consisting of musical rarities conducted by this maestro, disc 8 containing
edits from discussions & interviews with Wilhelm Furtwangler and Karla Hocker.
With 20-page booklet (in German).

Works by Haydn (Symph. Nr.88), Mozart (Symph. Nr.39), Beethoven (Symph. Nr.5),
Schumann (Symph. Nr.4), Schubert (Symph. Nr.8 & 9), Brahms (Symph. Nr.1),
Bruckner (Symph. Nr.7), Wagner (Die Meistersinger von N rnberg; Parsifal),
Strauss (Don Juan; Till Eulenspiegels), Furtw ngler (Symph. Nr.2). Plus 1 CD
Karla H cker: Wilhelm Furtw ngler talks about music.

Berliner Philharmoniker / Wilhelm Furtwangler. Recordings.

  Condition: brand new; UNplayed!

  Payment: only well-concealed cash; check my outstanding feedback if in doubt.

  Shipping: $8 for non-priority OR $12 for priority airmail, anywhere in the
world.

PS: All bids are binding! So please, THINK before you bid.

Thanks for your interest and good luck! Check out my other auctions to save on
shipping.




	 Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
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This set has been available for years from Zweitausendeins in Germany
(www.zweitausendeins.de).

Furtwängler, Wilhelm "Das Vermächtnis Vol. 1 & 2"
                              Die Furtwängler-Rarität zum Tiefstpreis.
Werke von
                              Haydn/Sinfonie Nr. 88; Mozart/Sinfonie Nr.
39;
                              Beethoven/Sinfonie Nr. 5; Schumann/Sinfonie
Nr. 4;
                              Schubert/Sinfonien Nr. 8 & 9;
Brahms/Sinfonie Nr. 1;
                              Bruckner/Sinfonie Nr. 7; Wagner/Die
Meistersinger
                              von Nürnberg - Vorspiel 1. Aufzug, Parsifal -
                              Karfreitagszauber; Strauss/Don Juan, Till
                              Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche;
Furtwängler/Sinfonie
                              Nr. 2. Plus 1 CD Karla Höcker: Wilhelm
Furtwängler
                              spricht über Musik - Ausschnitte aus
Diskussionen
                              und Interviews. Berliner
Philharmoniker/Wilhelm
                              Furtwängler. Aufnahmen 1942-54. DGG. Nur bei
uns.
                              Mono/AAD/ADD. 8 CDs 26.99 ¤ ( 52.79 DM) . Nr
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At 04:22 PM 8/7/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>This set has been available for years from Zweitausendeins in Germany
>(www.zweitausendeins.de).

My 2 cents: These guys are much easier to deal with than the seller of the
eBay auction.  He wants cash, which is a crazy way to do international
business.  With 2001 you can do this via credit card.  At least a private
seller should accept PayPal.  However....  For what it's worth, I've had
only good experiences doing business with 2001.  Usual proviso of no
interest in them other than being a satisfied customer.

Eric Kisch

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Does anyone know whether (any of) these transfers would be in any way a
further improvement in sound over the ones on the 30-CD set of F's DG
recordings that came out in Japan a few years ago (assuming this set came
out later)?  The sound on the Japanese set was very good, but this set
includes several of what I find to be F's absolutely finest recorded
performances, and even a modest improvement by DG could tempt me to buy
them again.

John Schwarz

At 04:22 PM 8/7/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>This set has been available for years from Zweitausendeins in Germany
>(www.zweitausendeins.de).
>
>Furtwängler, Wilhelm "Das Vermächtnis Vol. 1 & 2"
>                              Die Furtwängler-Rarität zum Tiefstpreis.
>Werke von
>                              Haydn/Sinfonie Nr. 88; Mozart/Sinfonie Nr.
>39;
>                              Beethoven/Sinfonie Nr. 5; Schumann/Sinfonie
>Nr. 4;
>                              Schubert/Sinfonien Nr. 8 & 9;
>Brahms/Sinfonie Nr. 1;
>                              Bruckner/Sinfonie Nr. 7; Wagner/Die
>Meistersinger
>                              von Nürnberg - Vorspiel 1. Aufzug, Parsifal -
>                              Karfreitagszauber; Strauss/Don Juan, Till
>                              Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche;
>Furtwängler/Sinfonie
>                              Nr. 2. Plus 1 CD Karla Höcker: Wilhelm
>Furtwängler
>                              spricht über Musik - Ausschnitte aus
>Diskussionen
>                              und Interviews. Berliner
>Philharmoniker/Wilhelm
>                              Furtwängler. Aufnahmen 1942-54. DGG. Nur bei
>uns.
>                              Mono/AAD/ADD. 8 CDs 26.99 ¤ ( 52.79 DM) . Nr
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John E. Schwarz
11085 Saffold Way
Reston, VA 20190, USA

johnschwarz@...
johnschwarz@...



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On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, John Schwarz wrote:

> Does anyone know whether (any of) these transfers would be in any way a
> further improvement in sound over the ones on the 30-CD set of F's DG
> recordings that came out in Japan a few years ago (assuming this set came
> out later)?  The sound on the Japanese set was very good, but this set
> includes several of what I find to be F's absolutely finest recorded
> performances, and even a modest improvement by DG could tempt me to buy
> them again.
>
> John Schwarz
>

I don't know the transfer of the title set compared to the Japanese F
edititon. For the wartime RRG recordings, EMI Furtwaengler edition
includes all most all recordings except Pepping, H. Schubert,
Schmann piano concerto, Brahms 2nd and 4th symphony in decent sound.
Russian compact disc released 15 or 16 cds from RRG tapes in good sound. I
don't know whether it is available in the West. You can get it from HMV,
Tower records or Yamano music in Japan.


regards,


Joey

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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>A thing I kept hearing least week during the 25th anniversary commemorations
on the death of Elvis was people saying that he was the greatest music performer
there had ever been.</P>
<P>I think I probably speak for most of us on this mailing list in saying that
the people who said this obviously hadn't listened to the recordings of
Furtwangler!</P>
<P>Martin Holland</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try
MSN Messenger: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENMY/c144??PS=47575'>Click
Here</a><br></html>
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Now.... who would dare even think of competing with The King?

regards,
SG



____________

"There are only two kinds of music: German music and bad music."
  -- H. L. Mencken


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<html><div style='background-color:'><P>A thing I heard again and again on TV
last week in programmes commemorating the 25th anniversary of Elvis Presely's
death was people saying that Elvis was the greatest performer there has ever
been. </P>
<P>I think I speak for most members of this website when I say that I don't
think the people who said this could have heard Furtwangler's conducting!</P>
<P>Martin Holland</P></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your
mobile device: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENMY/c152??PI=44348'>Click
Here</a><br></html>
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Martin:

re: Elvis as greatest music performer

I believe they used to refer to Liberace in
the same way. Even praised his piano playing.
He was certainly a flamboyant showman. You
had to admire how Liberace managed to be
endlessly gaudy, and more outrageous as the
years went on.

My first contact with Furtwängler was in the
late 70s, as a teenager, and I came across
that extraordinary studio performance of
Beethoven's Sixth with Vienna, 1952 (I think
I heard it on yellow-sleeved Unicorn disc).
The leisurely pace of the opening movement,
apparently "wrong" according to everyone
else, always seemed so right to me.

Perhaps I am the dreamer meandering through
the meadow. Karl Böhm's studio recording
of it about 25 years later, although different
in character, is it's only rival.

Sometimes an artist gets under the skin and
you just know you are in the company of
like-minded souls. It is easy to forgive any
transgressions in such a situation. I had a
friend who used to tell me about "bad"
Furtwängler performances but he never was able
to play one for me. Even at his least inspired,
there is always *something* which moves me.

Cheers,
Alexander
In Toronto


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-furt-l@... [mailto:owner-furt-l@...]On
Behalf Of martin holland
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 12:05 PM
To: furt-l@...
Subject: [furt-l] Elvis Presley

A thing I kept hearing least week during the 25th anniversary
commemorations on the death of Elvis was people saying that he
was the greatest music performer there had ever been.

I think I probably speak for most of us on this mailing list
in saying that the people who said this obviously hadn't
listened to the recordings of Furtwangler!

Martin Holland

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There are a million types of performers.  To wish Furtwangler a popularity
like Elvis's is to imagine the total cheapening of his music.  Most people now
(and perhaps as long as we can remember) prefer music where the performer is
not relatively self-effacing- that is what Elvis is- a spectacle, a movie
star, a sex symbol, larger than life, an image, and so on. It is a fact that
is not worth being concerned with.  Don't waste your life wishing you were
someplace else.

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I will be out of the office starting  08/21/2002 and will not return until
09/09/2002.

I will respond to your message upon my return.  Thank you.

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How did Elvis end up on the Furtwangler list?. Bing Crosby was a much better
performer and singer than Elvis ever was. Elvis admitted that fact quite
openly when I had lunch with him last Sunday. Bings 25TH must be coming up
soon so perhaps we will put on a bash for him assuming we can get him off
the golf course.

So congratulations to Leni Riefenstahl on reaching her 100th birthday my
only regret being that I and many others have been deprived of her talents
as a film director because of the same bunch of biggoted misfits that tried
to put an end to Furtwangler after WW2. Three cheers Leni for sticking
around and giving your detractors continual indigestion.



Paul Robinson
Mersin 10
TURKEY
(North Cyprus)




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At 07:25 AM 8/23/2002 +0000, Paul wrote:
>So congratulations to Leni Riefenstahl on reaching her 100th birthday my
>only regret being that I and many others have been deprived of her talents
>as a film director because of the same bunch of biggoted misfits that
>tried to put an end to Furtwangler after WW2. Three cheers Leni for
>sticking around and giving your detractors continual indigestion.

My enthusiasm for Ms Leni is somewhat less than yours.  She was a great
film director, no doubt, but her claim to neutrality during the
disturbances of 1933-45 were somewhat less than believable after I viewed
"Triumph of the Will."  This was perhaps the greatest propaganda film ever
made - alas for the wrong side.  Great, yes.  Neutral, no.  Reaching 100 is
a wonderful milestone, but permit me, on behalf of my many relatives who
never made it to 1945 as a result of those who tried to impose their "Will"
to abstain from the cheering.  And I think her detractors are not
necessarily the same "bigotted misfits" who tried to stop F conducting
after WWII.

Before you wax so enthusiastic, take a look at the historical record.  I
detract not one bit from her skills, just for her judgment on which side to
back.

Eric Kisch
who is around today only because the "Will" did not triumph.

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I am astonished at the naivety of Mr. Gorbochov
concerning Leni Riefenstahler.  Her protestations of
ignorance concerning the true nature of National
Socialism in Germany have never been truthful.   If
she had been truthful, then perhaps her detractors
would have been less vehement in their criticism.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
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Hi,f-somnambulists,

a discreet comment:

    1."Ein garstig Lied!Pfui!ein politisch Lied!"
        (An ugly song!Shame!a political song!)
                              GOEHTE,Faust 1.Teil,Auerbachs Keller

    2.The "Will" has survived.
       Nobody seems to remark that from 1945 on one power is continuously
       on the war trip.

    3.Elvis Presley and Wilhelm Furtwängler to be compared?
       Have learnt at university that only things which are comparable
       can be compared.

       Herzlich,

       Günter

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At 02:45 PM 8/23/2002 +0200, Günter wrote:

>3.Elvis Presley and Wilhelm Furtwängler to be compared?
>       Have learnt at university that only things which are comparable
>       can be compared.


As Sylvester Stallone said: Wha'?

Actually they do have one thing in common.  They are both deceased!

Eric

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Hi,

just found in a newsletter of JPC´s:Bruckner:Symphonie No.5
                                                     WienPO,Furtwängler
                                                     CD 747 92 54
(EMI,ADD,m,LA51)
                                                     (=Festspieldokumente)
                                                     Price:Euro 4,99 (1)

e-mail:order@...

Best,Günter

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Dear All,

Leni Riefenstahl's documentary of the 1934 Party Rally was a film of an
actual event. The Party Rally took place every year but it is the 1934 Rally
that is remembered because of Riefenstahls film 'Triumph of the Will.'
Riefenstahl was asked to make the film and please remember this was in 1934
long before the infamous Nuremberg Laws were in place.
You might also note that quite a few leading musicians at the time did far
more than Riefenstahl by accepting Nazi state positions, Riefenstahl never
did.
Riefenstahl made a first class documentary of a political event, she did her
job to perfection. The film recieved prizes from the French, British and
Italians. Two years later she directed the highly acclaimed film 'Olympia'
which although showing Hitler in a few brief shots and other Nazi leaders in
what can only be described as comical poses has also been branded as Nazi
propaganda. It should be noted that sportsmen Kietel Son of Korea, Glen
Morris and Jessie Owen of USA get more exposure than Hitler in 'Olympia.'
Son, Morris and Owen are hardly typical examples of the master race but
excellent sportsmen. It is perhaps interesting that Jessie Owens kept in
regular contact with Leni well into the 1980s.

Riefenstahl made her film debut long before the Nazis came to power, she
starred in the film 'The Holy Mountain' in 1926 and went on to act in at
least five further films before the Nazis came to power. She directed her
first picture 'The Blue Light' in 1932. Her last film 'Tiefland' which was
completed in 1953 is based on the D'Albert opera of the same name.

I find films like 'Exodus' and 'Cast a Giant Shadow' far more disturbing
than 'Triumph of the Will' in as far as they hide in the name of a so called
'based on an actual event'  when such films distort the true historical
events to the favour of one side, usually whoever is financing or directing
the film, making them propaganda films in fact. 'Triumph of the Will' is a
filmed documentary of an actual event, it claims to be nothing else.

Riefenstahl was never a member of the Nazi Party and never anti Jewish
unlike many others who went on to profit during and after the war, Karajan
being just one name that springs to mind.


If you accept the historical facts and judgements on Leni Riefenstahl as we
all accept the decisions of the de-nazification trials in the matter of
Wilhelm Furtwanger, the very worst that Riefenstahl could be accused of is
to be branded a 'fellow traveller' and there were a hell of a lot of those
around in Germany in 1945!


Regards,

Paul Robinson
Mersin 10
Turkey
(N Cyprus)




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<PRE>The only bigot, Paul, is you.  Thank you for showing your true colors.
Hitler would have been proud of you.
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I don't think the furt-L is the forum to discuss ANYONE's truth, either Ms.
Riefenstahl's or Mr. Ferguson's.  BEsides there is a certain amount of
arrogance when someone says they KNOW another is lying, as well as ignorance
to the nature of those various political groups who make up Ms.
Riefenstahl's detractors.

Alan Carrier
San Francisco

-----Original Message-----
From: thomas ferguson [mailto:thomas_f_11105@...]
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 4:19 AM
To: furt-l@...
Subject: [furt-l] Film maker


   I am astonished at the naivety of Mr. Gorbochov
concerning Leni Riefenstahler.  Her protestations of
ignorance concerning the true nature of National
Socialism in Germany have never been truthful.   If
she had been truthful, then perhaps her detractors
would have been less vehement in their criticism.

__________________________________________________
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I suppose anyone who makes a propaganda film for the "winning" side is
exonerated from making such films.  To the winner goes the spoils.

Alan Carrier

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Kisch [mailto:kischmir@...]
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 12:57 AM
To: furt-l@...
Subject: Re: [furt-l] Leni (was Elvis)


At 07:25 AM 8/23/2002 +0000, Paul wrote:
>So congratulations to Leni Riefenstahl on reaching her 100th birthday my
>only regret being that I and many others have been deprived of her talents
>as a film director because of the same bunch of biggoted misfits that
>tried to put an end to Furtwangler after WW2. Three cheers Leni for
>sticking around and giving your detractors continual indigestion.

My enthusiasm for Ms Leni is somewhat less than yours.  She was a great
film director, no doubt, but her claim to neutrality during the
disturbances of 1933-45 were somewhat less than believable after I viewed
"Triumph of the Will."  This was perhaps the greatest propaganda film ever
made - alas for the wrong side.  Great, yes.  Neutral, no.  Reaching 100 is
a wonderful milestone, but permit me, on behalf of my many relatives who
never made it to 1945 as a result of those who tried to impose their "Will"
to abstain from the cheering.  And I think her detractors are not
necessarily the same "bigotted misfits" who tried to stop F conducting
after WWII.

Before you wax so enthusiastic, take a look at the historical record.  I
detract not one bit from her skills, just for her judgment on which side to
back.

Eric Kisch
who is around today only because the "Will" did not triumph.

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As a member of the "various political groups" that are detractors of Leni and
her benefactor (and perhaps more) Herr Adolf, I want to express my
condolences, sir, that your side lost World War II.

Elliot
srothenbe@...
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Berkshire has it for a dollar more- I'll bet with postage included, BRO is
better.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:52:48 +0200 XYLARION <xylarion@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> just found in a newsletter of
> JPC s:Bruckner:Symphonie No.5
>
>     WienPO,Furtw ngler
>
>     CD 747 92 54
> (EMI,ADD,m,LA51)
>
>     (=Festspieldokumente)
>
>     Price:Euro 4,99 (1)
>
> e-mail:order@...
>
> Best,G nter
>
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Dear friends of Wilhelm Furtwängler,

please,listen to Beethoven,Furtwängler conducting the 9th symphony,4th
movement,
at Bayreuth,1951:

                                         O Freunde,nicht diese Töne!
                                         Sondern laßt uns angenehmere
anstimmen
                                         und freudenvollere!

Herzlich,

Günter

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Since your tone is sarcastic, I won't take offense.  I am not a Nazi nor
have I ever sympathised with their varied political offenses.  But I am an
artist.  And I do believe that we of the early 21st century have very little
opportunitites to understand what an artist (or anyone not politically
motivated I suppose) must do in order to "do" their art.  I also find it
unfortunate that anyone who somehow survived the Nazi regime, relatively
intact, is somehow complicit in the Nazi regime."Triumph des Willens" was
made in what 1934 (?) long before things got completely out of hand and the
thugs took over.What kleine Adolf and his regime did do, up to that point,
was restore the morale and economy of the Germans.  His and his thugs more
severe and outrageouos illegalities did not happen until leter. That film
watched as if it were 1934, without any foreknowledge of what was to come,
certainly comes across as a cheerleading film for the relatively new regime.
But how it was used after its release, and just as evilly since, I think
that Ms. Riefenstahl had little to do with.

As for your own political alliances, watch out for hubris.  Just look around
today at the "war on terror" and see where its true beginnings are (US
policies abroad and alliances built in the interest of a few loud mouths).

Alan Carrier
San Francisco

-----Original Message-----
From: Srothenbe@... [mailto:Srothenbe@...]
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:25 AM
To: furt-l@...
Subject: Re: [furt-l] Film maker


As a member of the "various political groups" that are detractors of Leni
and
her benefactor (and perhaps more) Herr Adolf, I want to express my
condolences, sir, that your side lost World War II.

Elliot
srothenbe@...
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braucht mans hat mans ...

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