--- In germaniconlang@yahoogroups.com, "peter21691" <petecollier@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how Gmc 'rîsan' (to raise) came to have it's modern German
meaning of 'reisen' (to travel)?
>
> Something to do with mounting horses, perhaps, or just 'getting up and going'?
>
>
>
> Pete.
>

According to Kluge's German Etymological Dictionary, Gmc <ri:san> meant 'to
rise' or 'to arise, get up' in most of the old Gmc languages; in Old High German
it meant both 'to rise' and 'to fall' and was used of any motion in the skies,
e.g. of the sun.  The causative, Gmc *raizjan, became Old English <ræ:ran> (>
Modern English 'rear', as when a horse rears on its hind legs, or when one rears
children or animals), Old High German <re:ren> 'cause to fall' (since <ri:san>
meant both 'rise' and 'fall' in OHG), and Old Norse <reisa> 'raise' (borrowed
into English as <raise>), with analogically reintroduced <-s-> instead of
expected <-r-> from *z.  Old High German also had an ablaut variant noun <reisa>
which meant 'departure, outset', and later 'military expedition or campaign'. 
From that noun developed a verb <reiso:n> which in Old High German meant 'to
prepare or arm for war or for a journey', which developed into Modern High
German <reisen> which now means simply 'to journey, travel' (and <reisa>
developed from 'departure' > 'expedition' > 'journey').  Kluge does not
elaborate on the sense-relationship between <ri:san> 'rise, arise, fall' and
<reisa> 'departure; expedition', which is not quite clear to me, but he does
believe the two words are related (of course you may be right about it
originally referring to mounting a horse or simply getting up and going).  In
any case, German <reisen> is not exactly cognate with English 'rise' and does
not go back to Gmc <ri:san>, it is merely a related word.

It is interesting that Middle English and Early Modern English had a noun
<reise> meaning 'journey; military expedition; hostile incursion; raid, foray'
and a verb <reise(n)> meaning 'to go on a military expedition; to make inroads
or raids; to travel, journey'.  These words are held to have been borrowed from
Middle Dutch, Middle Low German, or possibly Middle High German, with similar
senses in these languages.  However the noun may also be from Old French <reise,
raise> 'military expedition, raid' which is itself a borrowing from the Germanic
languages just mentioned, and the verb may derive from this noun. (All this from
the Oxford English Dictionary.)

Andrew

Does anyone know how Gmc 'rîsan' (to raise) came to have it's modern German
meaning of 'reisen' (to travel)?

Something to do with mounting horses, perhaps, or just 'getting up and going'?



Pete.

On 2009-07-21 Bernard van Dulmen Krumpelman wrote:
> As for modern Gothic language: some scholars don't
> classify Gothic in a seperate, East-Germanic branch, but
> consider it a more or less direct ancestor of the
> West-Germanic languages (or even the North-Germanic
> languages, or both),

That simply isn't possible. Germanic *æ: merges with *e:
in Gothic but becomes *a: in the other languages, and
*e merges with *i in Gothic but remains separate in the others.
The patterns of merger in the unstressed vowels are also
incompatible.

/BP

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the germaniconlang
group.

   File        : /SEXISK.pdf
   Uploaded by : anjarrette <anjarrette@...>
   Description : What I wish I spoke

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/files/SEXISK.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

anjarrette <anjarrette@...>

I once read about that there where Gothic dialects which lost their final -s.
Was that Ostrogothic or Visigothic? I don't find it any more.

You might see that I don't know what to do with the Gothic language yet.

Cheers
Thomas

Thank you Dan. I am reading this now.

--- In germaniconlang@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Prohaska" <daniel@...> wrote:
>
> I've posted an introduction to Crimean Gothic I've found online in the files
> section.
>
> Dan
>

Jan eskrë »

> Depends what Jameldic wedding rituals look like.
8<

Thanks for your congratulations, Jan! And for your suggestions... well, some
of them :-) As you rightly say, it will of course be a Jameldic wedding
because of the complete absence of llamas. There is of course a Jameldic
tradition of the bride wearing a stick-on beard, but my fiancée has
understandably vetoed this. Congratulations on your own betrothal, BTW!

And yes, there has been very little Jameld-related news for a while,
previously due to family ill health and more recently due to my feet not
touching the floor these last seven months. But I have continued to create a
little vocabulary here and there late at night, and there was a recent
addition to the blog (http://jameld.blogspot.com/) -- some dodgy poetry.

I was supposed to be finally producing a proper fleshed-out version of the
Jameldic cultural notes, but it remains unfinished for obvious reasons. I'll
get to it sometime, hopefully. Most of my spare time this year has been
invested in getting my book (about the south-west coast of England)
finished, and I finally published it last month.

James

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
James Campbell                              james@...  www.zolid.com
Boring, but a cool boring.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

--- Thomas Ruhm skrzypszy:

> Am I really the only one around here?

Definitely not! Just look at the archives and you'll noticed that every now and
then there are outbursts of activity. Sometimes posts simply remain unanswered.
When that happens, it means in all likeliness that nobody has anything of
substance to contribute to the subject, or those who might are engaged
otherwise. Besides, it is also true that workshops like this one were all
founded between five and ten years ago, and most of them used to be very active,
but nowadays they are far more quiet. Odd, because the number of active conlangs
and conlangers hasn't diminished a bit. But sometimes I get the impression that
many of the older conlangers either have no time for discussion groups anymore,
no time for conlanging at all, or perhaps have interest in discussing their
conlangs because they feel they've already written everything years ago, while
most of the younger conlangers seem to prefer internet fora and the like.

Jan

----- Original Message -----

From: thomasruhm

To: germaniconlang@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 5:42 PM

Subject: [germaniconlang] What is known about Vandalic?

 

Do we have Vandalic names to compare Vandalic with other languages? I read that it is similar to Gothic. Are there typical sound changes we could use to create a Vandalic like Gothic dialect?

I don't understand much Gothic by now. I did read a bit of the Gothic bible but I am more learning Latin. I did put an advertisment into the newspaper to ask if somebody would learn Gothic with me but the only one who would have done wanted to have money from me. How mean! I don't need help to learn. Learning together is just more fun.

What would be the right alphabet for Vandalic? How were inscriptions written? What do you think about using Arabic letters because the vandals got to Africa? Did they have contact to Arabians?

Cheers
Thomas

--- In germaniconlang@yahoogroups.com, Jan van Steenbergen <ijzeren_jan@...>
wrote:
>
> In that case you should check out this:
> http://www.geocities.com/erwan-ar-skoul/modgoth.html
>
> Jan
>

That is really the language I saw before. I think the web page did not work well
last time I watched it or I was just lazy. I did also find a phonetical
alphabeth version of the word list once. The language what you showed me looks
very good, just like a natlang. I will learn some of it because I am learning
Gothic any way.

Thomas

Thomas Ruhm skrzypszy:

> Oh, wow. I only know the Crimean
> Gothic word list. What are the other sources? With
> reconstructed I really mean a what it could have been
> version which uses Crimean Gothic phonetical developments on
> Gothic or other germanic languages.

In that case you should check out this:
http://www.geocities.com/erwan-ar-skoul/modgoth.html

Jan

Oh, wow. I only know the Crimean Gothic word list. What are the other sources?
With reconstructed I really mean a what it could have been version which uses
Crimean Gothic phonetical developments on Gothic or other germanic languages.

--- James Campbell (zolid.com) skrzypszy:

> No, but we are all very shy :-) If I don't respond, it's
> because all my mental circuits are occupied with trying to
> work out how I can incorporate some sort of reference to
> Jameld or Jameldic culture into my forthcoming wedding
> without scaring the guests or (more importantly) the bride...

Depends what Jameldic wedding rituals look like. I'd say, if they DON'T involve
a naked priest dancing in extasy and in circles around the equally naked bride,
followed by a discreet and still naked withdrawal of the two for about an hour
or two, and most importantly, if they don't include llamas either, there's
nothing wrong with a Jameldic accent here and there. You might consider
delivering a speech to the wedding guest in Jameld... but when it comes to
length, don't take Fidel Castro as an example. If you have a real flag, don't
hesitate to decorate the restaurant/party hangar/whatever with it. If you have
an authentic Jameldic robe, don't hesitate to wear it. Also, be sure that the
Jameldic hymn and other Jameldic songs are among the music played.

So, you're getting married, eh? That's great news. Congratulations! Would that
explain that it has been so long since news from the Jameld-speaking world has
been dispersed?

Only ten days ago I got married myself. Without any references to Wenedyk,
unfortunately. But we did manage to smuggle in a few Indian elements: a real
Indian wedding sherwani, a bindi and other Indian jewelry, a lot of music by
A.R. Rahman... And frankly, I'm very satisfied! :)

Cheers,
Jan

I am glad to see, that there are others around. Thank you.

Thomas eskrë »

> Am I really the only one around here?

No, but we are all very shy :-) If I don't respond, it's because all my
mental circuits are occupied with trying to work out how I can incorporate
some sort of reference to Jameld or Jameldic culture into my forthcoming
wedding without scaring the guests or (more importantly) the bride...

James

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
James Campbell                              james@...  www.zolid.com
Boring, but a cool boring.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

--- Thomas Ruhm skrzypszy:

> I only read about one, but I think
> there are many versions around because many people are
> interested in a modern Gothic language.

Depends a bit on what you call "reconstructed". The original Crimean Gothic as
we have received it from various sources is pretty much one and the same
language. I'm not aware of any efforts to reconstruct that language any further.

If you mean: hypothetical versions of Crimean Gothic the way it might have
looked like if the language hadn't gone extinct... Well, there's Damian
Perrotin's Gutisk, which is a nice and fairly complete piece of work. I don't
know if others have tried something similar. A few years ago, Benct Philip
Jonsson and me were thinking about and preparing for such a project, but it
never got off ground, unfortunately.

Jan

Am I really the only one around here?

Do we have Vandalic names to compare Vandalic with other languages? I read that
it is similar to Gothic. Are there typical sound changes we could use to create
a Vandalic like Gothic dialect?

I don't understand much Gothic by now. I did read a bit of the Gothic bible but
I am more learning Latin. I did put an advertisment into the newspaper to ask if
somebody would learn Gothic with me but the only one who would have done wanted
to have money from me. How mean! I don't need help to learn. Learning together
is just more fun.

What would be the right alphabet for Vandalic? How were inscriptions written?
What do you think about using Arabic letters because the vandals got to Africa?
Did they have contact to Arabians?

Cheers
Thomas

I only read about one, but I think there are many versions around because many
people are interested in a modern Gothic language.

Cheers
Thomas

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the germaniconlang
group.

   File        : /BEAUTIFUL PLAUSIBLE AND MAXIMIZING GERMANIC LANGUAGE.pdf
   Uploaded by : anjarrette <anjarrette@...>
   Description : A believable outcome of PGmc with relatively rich consonant
development and reasonable vowels

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/files/BEAUTIFUL%20PLAUSIBLE%20AND%2\
0MAXIMIZING%20GERMANIC%20LANGUAGE.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

anjarrette <anjarrette@...>

I have decided to actually start posting all my
random notes, thoughts and jottings to my blog
[Melroch@Random](http://blog.melroch.se), to have
a record of them in one place where both I myself
and others can review them and comment on them.

There will inevitably be crossposting between the
blog and various mailing lists, but I promise to
keep crossposting between mailing lists to a
minimum.  Now those who want to know whant I'm up
to when they haven't heard from me onlist for a
while know where to go! :-)

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   "C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient
   à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil
   ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*,
   c'est qu'elles meurent."           (Victor Hugo)

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the germaniconlang
group.

   File        : /OLD ENGLISH BEST PRESERVED WHILE ALLOWING MODERN GRAMMAR.pdf
   Uploaded by : anjarrette <anjarrette@...>
   Description : [Version with schwa and yogh characters] Complete grammar and
extensive vocabulary of conservative but simplified OE descendant

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/files/OLD%20ENGLISH%20BEST%20PRESER\
VED%20WHILE%20ALLOWING%20MODERN%20GRAMMAR.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

anjarrette <anjarrette@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the germaniconlang
group.

   File        : /OLD ENGLISH BEST PRESERVED WHILE ALLOWING MODERN GRAMMAR.pdf
   Uploaded by : anjarrette <anjarrette@...>
   Description : Complete grammar and extensive vocabulary of conservative but
simplified OE descendant

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/files/OLD%20ENGLISH%20BEST%20PRESER\
VED%20WHILE%20ALLOWING%20MODERN%20GRAMMAR.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

anjarrette <anjarrette@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the germaniconlang
group.

   File        : /HYPOTHETICAL OLD ENGLISH DESCENDANT.pdf
   Uploaded by : anjarrette <anjarrette@...>
   Description : Hypothetical OE descendant with full grammar but no vocabulary
yet (in the works)

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/files/HYPOTHETICAL%20OLD%20ENGLISH%\
20DESCENDANT.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

anjarrette <anjarrette@...>

--- In germaniconlang@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
> thanks for those, i think some of them may be of help.
> Any ideas where I might find a etymology resource for German?
> Preferably in English, but german would be ok too!
>

The standard for German etymology is Kluge's "Deutsches Etymologisches
Wörterbuch" (or similar title).  It's probably available at your local
university's library.

Andrew

thanks for those, i think some of them may be of help.
Any ideas where I might find a etymology resource for German?
Preferably in English, but german would be ok too!

--- In germaniconlang@yahoogroups.com, Benct Philip Jonsson
<melroch@...> wrote:
>
> Now also on FrathWiki:
>
> <http://wiki.frath.net/Romconlang_reference_works_online>
>
> <http://wiki.frath.net/Germaniconlang_reference_works_online>
>
> Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> > I have created new folders with links to historical
> > phonologies, grammars and (etymological) dictionaries to the
> > Links sections of the Romconlang and Germaniconlang
> > Yahoogroups sites.
> >
> > Most of these links are to digitized, somewhat dated texts
> > which have passed into the Public Domain and been uploaded
> > to the Internet Archive, which are still perfectly good, or
> > perhaps BECAUSE of their datedness even better, as fodder
> > for conlanging. They are offered in many file formats.
> > Follow the "All Files: http" link to download. The b/w PDF,
> > if available, is best for printout. The OCRed .txt version
> > is full of errors but still good for searching!
> >
> > * For Romconlang the links are at:
> >
> >
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romconlang/links/Grammars_and_dictionaries_0\
01233599798/>
> >
> > (I've also rearranged and included the links I uploaded before!)
> >
> > * For Germaniconlang the links are at:
> >
> >
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/links/Old_Germanic_grammars__\
phonologies_and_d_001233673599/>
> >
> >
> > /BP 8^)>
>

If you are on Linux and have trouble printing out those
b/w pdfs from the Internet Archive try converting them with
pdf2djvu and print from the generated djvu.
It beats the colored djvus on the IA!

/BP

Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> Now also on FrathWiki:
>
> <http://wiki.frath.net/Romconlang_reference_works_online>
>
> <http://wiki.frath.net/Germaniconlang_reference_works_online>
>
> Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
>> I have created new folders with links to historical
>> phonologies, grammars and (etymological) dictionaries to the
>> Links sections of the Romconlang and Germaniconlang
>> Yahoogroups sites.
>>
>> Most of these links are to digitized, somewhat dated texts
>> which have passed into the Public Domain and been uploaded
>> to the Internet Archive, which are still perfectly good, or
>> perhaps BECAUSE of their datedness even better, as fodder
>> for conlanging. They are offered in many file formats.
>> Follow the "All Files: http" link to download. The b/w PDF,
>> if available, is best for printout. The OCRed .txt version
>> is full of errors but still good for searching!
>>
>> * For Romconlang the links are at:
>>
>>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romconlang/links/Grammars_and_dictionaries_0\
01233599798/>
>>
>> (I've also rearranged and included the links I uploaded before!)
>>
>> * For Germaniconlang the links are at:
>>
>>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/links/Old_Germanic_grammars__\
phonologies_and_d_001233673599/>
>>
>>
>> /BP 8^)>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> romconlang-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Now also on FrathWiki:

<http://wiki.frath.net/Romconlang_reference_works_online>

<http://wiki.frath.net/Germaniconlang_reference_works_online>

Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> I have created new folders with links to historical
> phonologies, grammars and (etymological) dictionaries to the
> Links sections of the Romconlang and Germaniconlang
> Yahoogroups sites.
>
> Most of these links are to digitized, somewhat dated texts
> which have passed into the Public Domain and been uploaded
> to the Internet Archive, which are still perfectly good, or
> perhaps BECAUSE of their datedness even better, as fodder
> for conlanging. They are offered in many file formats.
> Follow the "All Files: http" link to download. The b/w PDF,
> if available, is best for printout. The OCRed .txt version
> is full of errors but still good for searching!
>
> * For Romconlang the links are at:
>
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romconlang/links/Grammars_and_dictionaries_0\
01233599798/>
>
> (I've also rearranged and included the links I uploaded before!)
>
> * For Germaniconlang the links are at:
>
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/links/Old_Germanic_grammars__\
phonologies_and_d_001233673599/>
>
>
> /BP 8^)>

I have created new folders with links to historical
phonologies, grammars and (etymological) dictionaries to the
Links sections of the Romconlang and Germaniconlang
Yahoogroups sites.

Most of these links are to digitized, somewhat dated texts
which have passed into the Public Domain and been uploaded
to the Internet Archive, which are still perfectly good, or
perhaps BECAUSE of their datedness even better, as fodder
for conlanging. They are offered in many file formats.
Follow the "All Files: http" link to download. The b/w PDF,
if available, is best for printout. The OCRed .txt version
is full of errors but still good for searching!

* For Romconlang the links are at:

<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romconlang/links/Grammars_and_dictionaries_0\
01233599798/>

(I've also rearranged and included the links I uploaded before!)

* For Germaniconlang the links are at:

<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/germaniconlang/links/Old_Germanic_grammars__\
phonologies_and_d_001233673599/>


/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  "C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient
  à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil
  ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*,
  c'est qu'elles meurent."           (Victor Hugo)