I hope this question is a worthy enough one. I don't see that anyone
asked it before so please direct me if I missed it.

If I was going put a GlowMUCK on a system with limited resources, what
would be a recommendation for resources needed to have a "Mid-Sized"
MUCK, projected for the future, FurryMUCK being a hypothetical maximum.

From my experience of putting up a few of them already, I would say
not that bad and probably under less than a hundred MB for total DB
size and limits can be curbed on what is loaded into or kept running
on it, but I'm not 100% sure otherwise.

I would like to know from the Programmers themselves if possible or
someone that has a good established GlowMUCK MUCK what is the highest
standard load, process, bandwidth, ram, HD space ratios of a MUCK of
established size.

I am guessing most GlowMucks are small to mid-size mucks.  Database
object count can be misleading if you use the virtual paths to link
exits, that can cut a database size in half.

The main thing that will eat up disk space is how many backups you
keep, in terms of both compressed and uncompressed backups.  That can
be come 4-8 times larger than the normal running database.

For CPU load, that's usually just during saves, unless you have a
really low-powered machine.  There's also network bandwidth to
consider if you're on a hosted machine, but the text sent usually is
nothing compared to web traffic most hosts are used to.

For me 100mb is more than enough to run a moderate size GlowMuck, but
that's when there's maybe 10-20 people online at once.  As you get
into 100+, that's another story, but kudos for being able to attract
that many loyal players if you can get your active player base that
high!  You can manage the database size using quotas, encouraging
people to use virtual objects and paths instead, and restricting
building and/or programming bits.  That can help because each actual
object always occupies a certain amount of RAM, while properties are
loaded as needed only.  If you require players who plan to build a lot
make a plan, that can help prevent a lot of junk objects from being
created.
-PakRat

--- In glowmuck@yahoogroups.com, "falderalrah" <grey2black@...> wrote:
>
> I hope this question is a worthy enough one. I don't see that anyone
> asked it before so please direct me if I missed it.
>
> If I was going put a GlowMUCK on a system with limited resources, what
> would be a recommendation for resources needed to have a "Mid-Sized"
> MUCK, projected for the future, FurryMUCK being a hypothetical maximum.
>
> From my experience of putting up a few of them already, I would say
> not that bad and probably under less than a hundred MB for total DB
> size and limits can be curbed on what is loaded into or kept running
> on it, but I'm not 100% sure otherwise.
>
> I would like to know from the Programmers themselves if possible or
> someone that has a good established GlowMUCK MUCK what is the highest
> standard load, process, bandwidth, ram, HD space ratios of a MUCK of
> established size.
>

> I am guessing most GlowMucks are small to mid-size mucks.

I'd concur. Most mucks (muds, even) tend toward small. To give some
ball-park ideas:

MUCK University has about 2000 database items, with low activity.
* Its using about 10mb of memory.
* The actual game occupies about 15mb of disk space
* I keep 10 (11, really) rolling backups of the actual database file, which
is
   around 5mb each for an additional 50mb which illustrates that it depends
on the
   backups you keep.
* ps -ux reports that it is using 0% of the proccessor (a p-233) which means
the
   usage is too small for ps to report.
* I have another process on the same machine that uses 50% of the processor
and
   technically 100% of the physical memory...and University doesn't notice.

Now we can compare to Narnia, which has around 27,000 database items (many
of which have extensive string data with them), typically 10-25 players
depending on time of day, has many active programs (they have programs that
move 'zombie/puppets' around, food that decays, etc.):

* Its using about 30mb of memory
* The game occupies about 163mb (includes 37mb in logs...eesh)
* They keep 12 rolling backups of the 20mb database file (280mb)
* Uses around 1% of the CPU on the machine it is on (Pentium 4 3Ghz)

---
A new world I'd expect could run on a pretty minimal account or machine. An
older world with good player flow with lots of string data will need more
memory, disk, and processor, but getting to that point takes a fair bit of
time...

Strictly speaking, you should be able to run a small Glowmuck server on a
486 doing nothing else, that has around 16mb memory, and some old disk
drive, depending on how many backups you want to keep. Maybe even more
minimal. I no longer have anything slower than a p-60, so I wouldn't know.
:)

f.

I recently started a MUCK with GlowMUCK and need some help getting
everything put in the right place and stuff. I have it installed. It's
just that the offical guide gets kind of fuzzy at minimal database.
Could someone PLEASE help me!

> I recently started a MUCK with GlowMUCK and need some help getting
> everything put in the right place and stuff. I have it installed. It's
> just that the offical guide gets kind of fuzzy at minimal database.
> Could someone PLEASE help me!

You haven't stated a question, so here are some things we'll need to know if
we're to help you:

1) From what you've said, it sounds like you have the server up and running.
If not, you'll need to tell us where you are in that regard, or what kinds
of messages you're seeing.

2) Are you able to telnet to the muck?

3) If you are able to telnet, is it that you're having trouble logging in?

If it isn't any of those, you'll have to ask a specific question, a specific
task you're wanting to achieve.

Well my server went down today and I can't figure out how to start
GlowMuck back up. I've read all the files on the database and tried
what they said but none of it seems to work. So how do I start it up
again.

My other questions are once I've created a W3 and W2 wizard how do I
set W3 to own MUF programs and W2 to own the world?

> Well my server went down today and I can't figure out how to start
> GlowMuck back up. I've read all the files on the database and tried
> what they said but none of it seems to work. So how do I start it up
> again.

First, I'd make sure it isn't still running, but 'silently'.

If this is linux/unix/bsd:
0) Get to a shell/command prompt (how to do this varies wildly depending on
your specific OS)
1) you should be able to do something like 'ps ux' to see what processes are
running...make sure there isn't a 'glowmuck' listed.

2) If it isn't running, then you should 'cd glow/game' and type 'restart'
(or possibly './restart', on many systems)

3) If it doesn't start up, you should see some kind of error message. If
not, look at the files 'glowmuck.err' and 'glowmuck.out' in the
glow/game/logs directory to see if there are any errors there.



> My other questions are once I've created a W3 and W2 wizard how do I set
W3 to own MUF programs and W2 to own
> the world?

As you add programs, exits, rooms, etc. You use the @chown command to change
their owner:

@chown <database reference>=<new owner's name>

For example:

@chown #333=World

Ok thanks I got it to restart.

So I just @chown each MUF program that I install to W3?
So to load the MUF programs should I create a new room or use #0 room?

Ok I can't figure out how to install MUF programs. I followed the
instructions on the database. I'm using TinyFugue by the way. Is there
a better one to use? I usually use MUSHclient to connect to MUCKs.
So to install MUF programs with TinyFugue the database says type:
/quote -s '~/cmd-register for example. I did that but get this:
% quote: //cmd-register: No such file or directory
What am I doing wrong? And how do I get it to install the MUF programs?

> Ok thanks I got it to restart.
>
> So I just @chown each MUF program that I install to W3?
> So to load the MUF programs should I create a new room or use #0 room?

In an ideal world, you'd create a room to serve has a global environment, to
reduce access to #0. In practice, it proves problematic (often requires some
extra massaging to make it work), I would go ahead and upload programs in
#0.

> Ok I can't figure out how to install MUF programs. I followed the
> instructions on the database. I'm using TinyFugue by the way. Is there
> a better one to use? I usually use MUSHclient to connect to MUCKs.

I don't know if MUSHclient would be better or worse. I've never used
MUSHclient. To do this properly, you need a client that is capable of
dumping the contents of a file without making any changes to the file to the
mu*.

Perl programmers would likely write a perl script to do it.

> So to install MUF programs with TinyFugue the database says type:
> /quote -s '~/cmd-register for example. I did that but get this:

Hmm. An imprecise example, it turns out.

You need to replace ~/cmd-register with the path to wherever you have the
MUF programs extracted to.

e.g., if you downloaded the fmglowmuf package, and extracted them all to:
~/fmglowmuf, then you'd want:

/quote -S '~/fmglowmuf/cmd-register

On the other hand, if you are downloading individual files to a download
directory, you'll need to fill in the path to that directory.

Don't forget that on *ix, the tilde ~, in a path means the user's home
directory, the location of which varies by distribution.

Btw, if you want the very latest (possibly buggy) versions of the MUF
programs, I'd go to here:
http://glowmuck.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/glowmuck/fmglowmuf/

And download them individually.

Ok I typed this:
/quote on '~/fmglowmuf-1.0.2/ cmd-register

When ever I log into my shell fmglowmuf is listed on the main section
rigth as you login as fmglowmuf-1.0.2. Also when I type the thing with
-s it says that it has to be either off, on, or full. So that's why I
typed on, I just tried it with full also, both don't work.
This is the error I get:
%quote: //fmglowmuf-1.0.2/ cmd-register: No such host or newtwork path.
When I type it in with out the -1.0.2 I get the same error.

If you possible could I can give you my username and password for the
shell and the account on the MUCK to try it yourself, if you wanted to.

> Ok I typed this:
> /quote on '~/fmglowmuf-1.0.2/ cmd-register
...
> When ever I log into my shell fmglowmuf is listed on the main section
rigth as you login as fmglowmuf-1.0.2.
> Also when I type the thing with -s it says that it has to be either off,
on, or full. So that's why I
> typed on, I just tried it with full also, both don't work.
...
> This is the error I get:
> %quote: //fmglowmuf-1.0.2/ cmd-register: No such host or newtwork path.
> When I type it in with out the -1.0.2 I get the same error.

You have two different issues:
1) -s and -S are two different things. Many commands on unix (and all of
Tinyfugue's for sure) are case-sensitive. The -S is 'synchronous' which
means it won't delay between sending each line of the file. Otherwise there
is a delay, and it will upload very slowly.
             You really do want:

             /quote -S ...

            Note this is a upper-case S, not a lower-case.

2) It is unusual, but apparently your "Home Directory" is set to /, e.g.,
the root directory. This means with the tilde is replaced with your home
directory, you end up with //directoryname/filename.

However, two slashes at the beginning of a path has special meaning. The
operating system interprets the stuff after // as a computer-name. It so you
can have paths that look like this:

//computername/directory/file (or on windows, this is
\\computername\directory\file)

Try this command instead:

/quote -S '/fmglowmuf-1.0.2/cmd-register

I don't know if it is intentional, but in the text of your email you have
space between '/fmglowmuf-1.0.2/' and 'cmd-register'. You can't have a space
there, it would see that as being a separate parameter (e.g. you're telling
which filing drawer to look in, but not which file!). The entire path has to
be completely together: /fmglowmuf-1.0.2/cmd-register.

Most libraries have at least one book on Linux these days, if you have a
chance, I'd swing by the library and see if you can find one. Ideally one
specifically for your distribution (Ubuntu, right?), but if not, get
whatever they have available. I would spend some time reading it so you know
how to work files and the like on your linux machine.

f.

>
> Try this command instead:
>
> /quote -S '/fmglowmuf-1.0.2/cmd-register
>

I tried that and all I get is this:
% quote: /fmglowmuf- 1.0.2/cmd- register: No such file or directory

I type it in exactly like you said it, but it still didn't work.
Would you loginning and doing it yourself, then just telling me how you
did it? I can privately email you all the login info you need.

Ok I typed @prog cmd-register and it created something. And once it
was created it took me into some editor.

Now when I type ex cmd-register I get:
cmd-register(#3FM3)  Owner: One(#1PCW)
Type: PROGRAM  Flags: MUFFER3
A scroll containing a spell called cmd-register
Key: *UNLOCKED*
Chown_OK Key: *UNLOCKED*
Container Key: *UNLOCKED*
Force Key: *UNLOCKED*
Created:  Mon Dec 22 20:43:49 EST 2008
Modified: Mon Dec 22 20:43:49 EST 2008
Lastused: Mon Dec 22 20:43:49 EST 2008
Usecount: 0     Instances: 0
In Memory: 241 bytes
Program not compiled.
Location: One(#1PCW)

So did I create the program? What do I do next?

> Ok I typed @prog cmd-register and it created something. And once it
> was created it took me into some editor.
> So did I create the program? What do I do next?

The MUF program editor. Basically, you did one of the steps the (/quote)
script does for you. The next step would be type in the program. Right now,
all that database item is, is an empty file.

Feaelin

> You need to type @edit cmd-@register, then I, then paste the programs
> instructions.

Indeed.


> There are scripts available that do most of this for you... I think you
> can find them in the downloads section of the MINK MUCK manual. Google
> it.

Actually, the best place to get the very latest versions of the MUF program
library for Glow is at:

http://glowmuck.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/glowmuck/fmglowmuf/

Or download the release zip, but it tends to lag behind, since CVS is
updated as soon as I commit a change to the repository.

The ones on MINK appear to be the FB ones, which might work, or might not.
In most cases they will, but you won't have the additions and fixes that
have been applied to the GlowMUF equivalents.

Feaelin

Ok, so if I open up cmd-register and read what it says, is the entire
file the instructions? Or is it just this part that starts like this:


( --------------------------------------------------------------------
------- )

$define tell me @ swap ansi_notify $enddef

lvar regobj
lvar regprop

: do-header
   "^WHITE^------------------------------------------------------------
------------------" tell
   "^FOREST^cmd-register: " "$Revision: 1.18 $"
   1 strcut swap pop dup strlen 2 - strcut pop strcat tell
   "^WHITE^------------------------------------------------------------
------------------" tell
;

--- In glowmuck@yahoogroups.com, Kelketek Rritaa <kelketek@...> wrote:
>
> You need to type @edit cmd-@register, then I, then paste the
programs instructions.
>
> There are scripts available that do most of this for you... I think
you can find them in the downloads section of the MINK MUCK manual.
Google it.

The actual program code will begin after the following three lines:

@prog cmd-register
1 99999 d
i

and the last line of the program will be followed by:
.
c
q

However, copying it in that way is a very painful (and error prone) way to
do it. You're much better off doing one of the following:

a) Figuring out what the path to your home directory really is, and
correspondingly the path to the library files you downloaded

b) Downloading a windows client (for your windows machine) that has a
similar tool as tinyfugue's /quote, and using it to dump the files to the
server. I couldn't tell you of one that does, I nearly never use a windows
client. I /think/ zMud does, but I believe zMud is payware these days.

Feaelin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com [mailto:glowmuck@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of narniafannews
> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:41 AM
> To: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [glowmuck] Re: Startup help
>
> Ok, so if I open up cmd-register and read what it says, is the entire
> file the instructions? Or is it just this part that starts like this:
>
>
> ( --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------- )
>
> $define tell me @ swap ansi_notify $enddef
>
> lvar regobj
> lvar regprop
>
> : do-header
>   "^WHITE^------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------" tell
>   "^FOREST^cmd-register: " "$Revision: 1.18 $"
>   1 strcut swap pop dup strlen 2 - strcut pop strcat tell
>   "^WHITE^------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------" tell
> ;
>
> --- In glowmuck@yahoogroups.com, Kelketek Rritaa <kelketek@...> wrote:
> >
> > You need to type @edit cmd-@register, then I, then paste the
> programs instructions.
> >
> > There are scripts available that do most of this for you... I think
> you can find them in the downloads section of the MINK MUCK manual.
> Google it.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

You can get an old copy of zmud for free nowadays, because they've moved
on to cmud.
I can look at the client(s) later and see if they have that option.




Iain E. Davis wrote:
>
> The actual program code will begin after the following three lines:
>
> @prog cmd-register
> 1 99999 d
> i
>
> and the last line of the program will be followed by:
> .
> c
> q
>
> However, copying it in that way is a very painful (and error prone) way to
> do it. You're much better off doing one of the following:
>
> a) Figuring out what the path to your home directory really is, and
> correspondingly the path to the library files you downloaded
>
> b) Downloading a windows client (for your windows machine) that has a
> similar tool as tinyfugue's /quote, and using it to dump the files to the
> server. I couldn't tell you of one that does, I nearly never use a windows
> client. I /think/ zMud does, but I believe zMud is payware these days.
>
> Feaelin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com <mailto:glowmuck%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:glowmuck@yahoogroups.com <mailto:glowmuck%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> > Behalf Of narniafannews
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:41 AM
> > To: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com <mailto:glowmuck%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [glowmuck] Re: Startup help
> >
> > Ok, so if I open up cmd-register and read what it says, is the entire
> > file the instructions? Or is it just this part that starts like this:
> >
> >
> > ( ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------- )
> >
> > $define tell me @ swap ansi_notify $enddef
> >
> > lvar regobj
> > lvar regprop
> >
> > : do-header
> > "^WHITE^----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------------" tell
> > "^FOREST^cmd-register: " "$Revision: 1.18 $"
> > 1 strcut swap pop dup strlen 2 - strcut pop strcat tell
> > "^WHITE^----------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------------" tell
> > ;
> >
> > --- In glowmuck@yahoogroups.com <mailto:glowmuck%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Kelketek Rritaa <kelketek@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > You need to type @edit cmd-@register, then I, then paste the
> > programs instructions.
> > >
> > > There are scripts available that do most of this for you... I think
> > you can find them in the downloads section of the MINK MUCK manual.
> > Google it.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Well  I copied and pasted it in, and yeah I got alot of error
messages. But I can't figure out how to do it any other way then copy
and pasting.Is there a way to fix the errors?
When I run TinyFugue I'm running it on windows, could that be the
problem?

--- In glowmuck@yahoogroups.com, "Iain E. Davis" <feaelin@...> wrote:
>
> The actual program code will begin after the following three lines:
>
> @prog cmd-register
> 1 99999 d
> i
>
> and the last line of the program will be followed by:
> .
> c
> q
>
> However, copying it in that way is a very painful (and error prone)
way to
> do it. You're much better off doing one of the following:
>
> a) Figuring out what the path to your home directory really is, and
> correspondingly the path to the library files you downloaded
>
> b) Downloading a windows client (for your windows machine) that has
a
> similar tool as tinyfugue's /quote, and using it to dump the files
to the
> server. I couldn't tell you of one that does, I nearly never use a
windows
> client. I /think/ zMud does, but I believe zMud is payware these
days.
>
> Feaelin

I'm trying to use ansi colors in my @messages like @desc. Well whenever
I type something like ^BLUE^message. I don't get any colors. I just get
it the exact same way I typed it. I have colors on and I installed
cmd-ansi. What do I have to do to get the colors to work?

That's because @messages don't support color. Something I've considered
changing. I believe originally they weren't included for historical reasons,
those may not apply anymore. :)

f.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com [mailto:glowmuck@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of narniafannews
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:04 PM
> To: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [glowmuck] Ansi colors
>
> I'm trying to use ansi colors in my @messages like @desc. Well whenever
> I type something like ^BLUE^message. I don't get any colors. I just get
> it the exact same way I typed it. I have colors on and I installed
> cmd-ansi. What do I have to do to get the colors to work?
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Ok maybe what I should of said was I was trying to use lsedit to set
@desc. Like NarniaMuck has color in their room descriptions.


--- In glowmuck@yahoogroups.com, "Iain E. Davis" <feaelin@...> wrote:
>
> That's because @messages don't support color. Something I've
considered
> changing. I believe originally they weren't included for historical
reasons,
> those may not apply anymore. :)
>
> f.

How do you get colors to display in @desc messages?

@msgs, or descriptions?

Descriptions, you simply use the color codes in your text.

@succ/@fail, etc. do not support color.

f.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com [mailto:glowmuck@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of narniafannews
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:25 PM
> To: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [glowmuck] Colors in Descs
>
> How do you get colors to display in @desc messages?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yeah descriptions. Here's a example of it not working.
@desc object100=^BLUE^testing^RESET^
Description set.
look object100
^BLUE^testing^RESET^
@desc object100=^BLUE^testing
Description set.
look object100
^BLUE^testing

I don't see color I just see the code and the words.


--- In glowmuck@yahoogroups.com, "Iain E. Davis" <feaelin@...> wrote:
>
> @msgs, or descriptions?
>
> Descriptions, you simply use the color codes in your text.
>
> @succ/@fail, etc. do not support color.
>
> f.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com [mailto:glowmuck@yahoogroups.com]
On
> > Behalf Of narniafannews
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:25 PM
> > To: glowmuck@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [glowmuck] Colors in Descs
> >
> > How do you get colors to display in @desc messages?
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

I'm more a protoMUCK admin, so some things may be fundamentally different, but here are some things to check for:

Is there an @ansidesc command? It's probably what you should use.

Did you @set me=c ?

If you're using desc, have you considered using MPI's attrib instead? I'm not sure if the codes you're using are intended for use outside MUF.

On May 16, 2010 8:40 AM, "narniafannews" <narniafannews@...> wrote:

 

Yeah descriptions. Here's a example of it not working.
@desc object100=^BLUE^testing^RESET^
Description set.
look object100
^BLUE^testing^RESET^
@desc object100=^BLUE^testing
Description set.
look object100
^BLUE^testing

I don't see color I just see the code and the words.

--- In glowmuck@yahoogroups.com, "Iain E. Davis" <feaelin@...> wrote:
>
> @msgs, or descriptions?
...