Hi everyone,

   Hope this is ok to post here... You can see a list of my groups on Grouply at
the link below. Maybe you'll find some you want to join.

   Ernust

   Here's the link:
    http://www.grouply.com/register?tmg=3338107&vt=81738514





   ====================
   This message was posted by a fellow group member who uses Grouply instead of
email to access this group. Grouply blocks additional invitations from being
sent to this group by anyone for 30 days. Group owners can permanently block
future invitations. For more on how Grouply maintains privacy and protects you,
see http://blog.grouply.com/protect/ .





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think that's cool you're translating the bible. Not an easy task to do. Latin
could be an inspiration to create new words for a "modernized" gothic and I and
also a few others have been pretty puristic in this word creation. I have used
icelandic as model for a lot of these words because that as well is a puristic
language and also a germanic language.
But there's also a great number of words to be created to make gothic able to
use in the dayly life.


--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Harald Schmidt <freihals2000@...> wrote:
>
> Hails frithureiks!
>  
> Nice to see you ! I live in Austria, Vienna. It is my hobby to try to
translate the Wulfila Bible with the help of a dictionary (Köbler). I have read
the grammars of Streitberg and Braune. Colloquial use of gothic is very much
limited by the volume of vocabulary. This phenomenon is similar to latin and a
common problem with extinct languages. Though the volume of latin words is much
larger it still exists a big lack of daily life words. The state of Vatican
which is the only state all over the world with an extinct language as its
official language has some experience in developing new words by deriving them
from older ones or from roots of words, the only way to revive ancient
languages. Let´s see what we can do.
>  
> Harald
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Fredrik <gadrauhts@...>
> To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2009 3:55:03 PM
> Subject: [gothic-l] Re: introduction
>
>
>
>
>
> Háils Harald!
>
> Nice to see you here and especially that you're interested in colloquial use
of gothic. So am I, eventhough I haven't been able to be that much active in
using it or learning it etc. because of my studies. So where are you from and
how much do you know gothic at this point? Some people here have tried to fill
out the gothic vocabulary with non attested words and some words for modern
thing such as car, computer, electricity etc.
>
> Hope you will help completeing the vocabulary.
>
> /Friþureiks
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroup s.com, Harald Schmidt <freihals2000@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Hails to all !
> >
> > I am new here and want to introduce myself: my name is Harald. My interests
are mainly in gothic grammar, syntax and also using it in daily life, writing
letters etc. I am further interested in gothic laws, belagines, which have not
really been discovered yet for textes like lx romana visigothorum, ed theoderici
etc. contain mainly roman law.
> >
> > but in general I have joined this group to improve my gothic.
> >
> > Harald
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I think in general both translations are correct.
 
As you mentioned the translation depends mainly on the meaning of the sentence:
 
always towards victory ?
or
always until the (final) victory ?
 
therefore:
 
sinteino du sigisa or sinteino und sigis aftumist




________________________________
From: Fredrik <gadrauhts@...>
To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2009 4:04:04 PM
Subject: [gothic-l] Hasta la victoria siempre





Hi!

I'd like to translate 'Hasta la victoria siempre' to gothic.
But I'm not quite sure how to do this the best way.

The first question is how to translate it to english.
Would it be 'Until the victory, always' or 'until the everlasting victory' or
'always towards the victory'.

My suggestions for a gothic translation are:

'Sinteino und sigis' (und + ack = until...)
'Sinteino du sigisa' (du + dat = towards)

Or should I use other words?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hails frithureiks!
 
Nice to see you ! I live in Austria, Vienna. It is my hobby to try to translate
the Wulfila Bible with the help of a dictionary (Köbler). I have read the
grammars of Streitberg and Braune. Colloquial use of gothic is very much limited
by the volume of vocabulary. This phenomenon is similar to latin and a common
problem with extinct languages. Though the volume of latin words is much larger
it still exists a big lack of daily life words. The state of Vatican which is
the only state all over the world with an extinct language as its official
language has some experience in developing new words by deriving them from older
ones or from roots of words, the only way to revive ancient languages. Let´s see
what we can do.
 
Harald




________________________________
From: Fredrik <gadrauhts@...>
To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2009 3:55:03 PM
Subject: [gothic-l] Re: introduction





Háils Harald!

Nice to see you here and especially that you're interested in colloquial use of
gothic. So am I, eventhough I haven't been able to be that much active in using
it or learning it etc. because of my studies. So where are you from and how much
do you know gothic at this point? Some people here have tried to fill out the
gothic vocabulary with non attested words and some words for modern thing such
as car, computer, electricity etc.

Hope you will help completeing the vocabulary.

/Friþureiks

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroup s.com, Harald Schmidt <freihals2000@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hails to all !
>
> I am new here and want to introduce myself: my name is Harald. My interests
are mainly in gothic grammar, syntax and also using it in daily life, writing
letters etc. I am further interested in gothic laws, belagines, which have not
really been discovered yet for textes like lx romana visigothorum, ed theoderici
etc. contain mainly roman law.
>
> but in general I have joined this group to improve my gothic.
>
> Harald
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi!

I'd like to translate 'Hasta la victoria siempre' to gothic.
But I'm not quite sure how to do this the best way.

The first question is how to translate it to english.
Would it be 'Until the victory, always' or 'until the everlasting victory' or
'always towards the victory'.

My suggestions for a gothic translation are:

'Sinteino und sigis' (und + ack = until...)
'Sinteino du sigisa' (du + dat = towards)

Or should I use other words?

Háils Harald!

Nice to see you here and especially that you're interested in colloquial use of
gothic. So am I, eventhough I haven't been able to be that much active in using
it or learning it etc. because of my studies. So where are you from and how much
do you know gothic at this point? Some people here have tried to fill out the
gothic vocabulary with non attested words and some words for modern thing such
as car, computer, electricity etc.

Hope you will help completeing the vocabulary.

/Friþureiks

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Harald Schmidt <freihals2000@...> wrote:
>
> Hails to all !
>
> I am new here and want to introduce myself: my name is Harald. My interests
are mainly in gothic grammar, syntax and also using it in daily life, writing
letters etc. I am further interested in gothic laws, belagines, which have not
really been discovered yet for textes like lx romana visigothorum, ed theoderici
etc. contain mainly roman law.
>
> but in general I have joined this group to improve my gothic.
>
> Harald
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hails to all !

I am new here and want to introduce myself: my name is Harald. My interests are
mainly in gothic grammar, syntax and also using it in daily life, writing
letters etc. I am further interested in gothic laws, belagines, which have not
really been discovered yet for textes like lx romana visigothorum, ed theoderici
etc. contain mainly roman law.

but in general I have joined this group to improve my gothic.

Harald




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ok......u live in sweden....the people of gotland are gothic as well.....

--- On Thu, 5/28/09, Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@...> wrote:


From: Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@...>
Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Hello.
To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 6:23 AM








Hi Oscar!

That was a Swedish greeting to a Norwegian friend just telling him the
sailingboat was waiting for his arrival to me. Nothing interesting that you
missed. Halstein and me have done some research together. You are welcome as
well if you have the chance some time and so is everybody else on the list.

Best
Ingemar

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroup s.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@... > wrote:
>
> albeit?
>
> --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@... > wrote:
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Oscar!

That was a Swedish greeting to a Norwegian friend just telling him the
sailingboat was waiting for his arrival to me. Nothing interesting that you
missed. Halstein and me have done some research together. You are welcome as
well if you have the chance some time and so is everybody else on the list.

Best
Ingemar

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@...> wrote:
>
> albeit?
>
> --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@...> wrote:

albeit?

--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@...> wrote:


From: Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@...>
Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Hello.
To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 5:11 PM








Hej Halstein!

Kul att se dig här på denna listan! Båten ligger fullt utrustad sedan i måndags
och med ett antal väsentliga förbättringar och du vet var jag bor!

Ingemar

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroup s.com, halsteis@... wrote:
>
> Hi.
> I have just joined the list, and wanted to present my self.
>
> My name is Halstein (some migth know me from the
> Germanic-L list, where I
> am a member, albeit not one of the most active). My
> intrest is mainly in
> the history of Late Antiquity and Early Medieval period.
>
> I joined the list, to broaden my knowledge of the Goths.
>
> Halstein.
>
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hej Halstein!

Kul att se dig här på denna listan! Båten  ligger fullt utrustad sedan i måndags
och med ett antal väsentliga förbättringar och du vet var jag bor!

Ingemar

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, halsteis@... wrote:
>
> Hi.
> I have just joined the list, and wanted to present my self.
>
> My name is Halstein (some migth know me from the
> Germanic-L list, where I
> am a member, albeit not one of the most active). My
> intrest is mainly in
> the history of Late Antiquity and Early Medieval period.
>
> I joined the list, to broaden my knowledge of the Goths.
>
> Halstein.
>

Hi.
I have just joined the list, and wanted to present my self.

My name is Halstein (some migth know me from the
Germanic-L list, where I
am a member, albeit not one of the most active). My
intrest is mainly in
the history of Late Antiquity and Early Medieval period.

I joined the list, to broaden my knowledge of the Goths.

Halstein.

Call for Papers


The Heroic Age: A Journal of Early Medieval Northwestern Europe invites
submissions for our upcoming issues.  In each issue, we plan to publish papers
on any topic that falls approximately in the era between 300 and 1200 CE and
within the general geographical region of Northwestern Europe and periods, and
areas. Each issue contains:

*a general section of papers and notes that covers any topic in our range of
dates and geography;
*a themed section of papers on an announced topic;
*a Forum section of review essays, special topics, and the like;
*a number of columns dealing with aspects of Early Medieval scholarship and
research

Thus, The Heroic Age publishes the following types of materials:
*Feature Articles;
*Notes;
*Review Essays;
*Editions and Translations;
*History by Biography;*Book Reviews;
*Film and Television Reviews.

The following special sections are planned for future issues:

Issue 15: Ten Year Anniversary Issue: The World of Late Antique Britain.
For our ten-year anniversary, The Heroic Age is planning to revisit the topic of
its first issue, the Matter of Arthur. Issue 15 will have three sections. The
first will be historical, examining the world of Late Antique Britain,
connections with the rest of the continent in Late Antiquity, and new views of
the Adventus Saxonum. The second section will examine Arthur and Arthurian
literature. The third section will include studies of "understudied" early
medieval authors. Deadline for submissions is November 2009.

  Issue 16: Alcuin and His Impact
Alcuin spans the Anglo-Saxon and Continental worlds and his influence is felt
far beyond his own period and place. This issue seeks to explore the man, his
times, and his influence on his contemporaries and on subsequent generations.The
Heroic Age

Issue 17: Carolingian Border-Lands.
This issue seeks to explore the lands and peoples surrounding the Carolingian
kingdom(s) and their impact on the Carolingians.

Future planned issues include themed sections on Old French/Provencal/Occitan
studies, Charlemagne, Rise of the Normans, and Study of the Bible in Late
Antiquity and Early Medieval Europe.

Articles should be 7000 words including bibliography and endnotes, and conform
to The Heroic Age's in-house style. Instructions may be found under Submission
Instructions. All submissions will be reviewed by two readers according to a
double-blind policy.  All submission should be sent to Larry Swain at
haediting@...

Dear all,
 
Sorry to bleat once more about my newly released book, but several of you
informed me that they could not locate the book on the publisher's website.
 
Easiest way to access it: try www.amazon.com if you are in the Americas;
www.amazon.de  or www.amazon.fr in Continental Europe; or www.amazon.co.uk for
others; whichever you find most convenient.
 
In the alternative, it is also available at www.barnesandnoble.com .
 
Thanks. Hope you like the book, The Goths (subtitle Children of the Storm), by
Arthur A. Jones and Robin Wiseman.
 
Arthur



ARTHUR A. JONES

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear all,

Five volumes are now printed and available. Information on Moneta
(www.moneta.be):

85, G. Depeyrot, Les trésors et les invasions (Les enfouissements d'or et
d'orfèvrerie de 379 à 491), I. Introduction, l'Europe orientale et
centrale, 2009, 300 pages

86, G. Depeyrot, Les trésors et les invasions (Les enfouissements d'or et
d'orfèvrerie de 379 à 491), II. Europe centrale et occidentale, 2009, 444 pages

87, G. Depeyrot, Les trésors et les invasions (Les enfouissements d'or et
d'orfèvrerie de 379 à 491), III. Le bassin méditerranéen, 2009, 376 pages

88, M. Dima, D. Elefterescu, Monnaies de Durostorum – Ostrov  (4e siècle
av. J.-C. – 6e siècle ap. J.-C.), 2009, 272 pages

89, E. Petac, La collection M.C. Sutzu (Bibliothèque de l'Académie
Roumaine), II. Cités grecques du Nord de la Mer Noire, d'Asie Mineure et
d'Afrique (Collection Grand-duc Alexandre Mikhailovitch), 2009, 184 pages

Best wishes


Georges Depeyrot, Centre de recherches historiques, CNRS - Paris

www.moneta.be
Publications 2009:
# 85-87 Trésors & invasions (4e-5e s.);
# 88 Monnaies de Durostorum (4e s. av. - 6 s. ap.);
# 89 Collection Sutzu II (Mer Noire, etc.), coll. Mikhailovitch;
# 90-95 Histoire financière de la Révolution;
# 96 Les assignats;
# 97 Coin hoards from Roman Britain, XII;
# 98 A price theory of monies;
# 99 Monnaies byzantines en or (Académie roumaine).

********************************************************************************
This message and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for
the addressees.
Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited.

Háils

How does one actually decline "aus" (ewe) [the Germanic "ôw" became a long open
o-sound (written "au") before vowels; but we have "awistr",...]?

singular

nominative: aus
genitive: auáis, awáis?
dative: auái, awái?
accustaive: au?


plural

nominative: aueis, aweis?
genitive: aue, awe?
dative: auim, awim?
accustaive: auins, awins?


Regards

Manie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hails frijandeis,
 
I am proud to announce that my book, The Goths: Children of the Storm, has now
appeared and is available at the www.iuniverse.com website. The complete link is
 
www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.ASPX?Bookld=SKU-000117059#
 
although it may easier to view it by going to iUniverse.com, then click on "new
releases", and my book is starting life as #22.
 
It will also be available online at www.amazon.com as well as at
www.barnesandnoble.com within a few days to a week. I will also be presenting
from it at the Los Angeles Festival of Books on April 25 and 26.
 
Two of our most steadfast friends and colleagues contributed huge amounts to
this work, namely our Llama Nom and our distinguished Ingemar Nordgren.
 
The book itself is hard to describe. It represents Gothic history from the
personal perspectives of  the Goths themselves. Id does so in the form of poetry
with interspersed historical "guided tours" written in what approaches prose
poetry. The historical detail is found in copious appended notes covering the
evidence, archaeological, linguistic and (ahem!) even some historians. The poems
are introduced for context (like the dialogue in a musical, setting the mood for
the song), and they are what give the Goths, real or fictitious, some real
humanity.
 
Hope you like it!
 
Arthur


 
ARTHUR A. JONES

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Warm and deep  thanks dear Thiudans! This will indeed improve the possibilities
to share knowledge with each other!

Best greetings!
Ingemar

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Thiudans!
> >
> > Why have you disabled the possibility to upload files to Gothic list?
> > As shown in Germanic list this possibility is extremely valuable and
> > often used for the benefit of all list members. As moderator you must
> > just allow all members to upload since now it is only you who can do that.
> >
> > Please!
> >
> > Ingemar
> >
>
> Okay, you should be able to upload files now. Sorry it took so long to
respond.
>

Dear colleagues,

You will find on the Moneta web site
<http://www.moneta.be>http://www.moneta.be the list of the first group of
books published or to be published in spring 09 (a second group will be
published by summer).

G. Depeyrot, Les trésors et les invasions (Les enfouissements d'or et
d'orfèvrerie de 379 à 491),
Moneta volume # 85, I. Introduction, l'Europe orientale et centrale, 2009,
300 pages € 70
Moneta volume # 86, II. Europe centrale et occidentale, 2009, 444 pages € 70
Moneta volume # 87, III. Le bassin méditerranéen, 2009, 376 pages € 70


Moneta volume # 88, M. Dima, D. Elefterescu, Monnaies de Durostorum –
Ostrov  (4e siècle av. J.-C. – 6e siècle ap. J.-C.), 2009, 272 pages € 65


Do not forget to leave your email address if you want to receive the next
information from Moneta.
The E-paper section contains new documents to download and new links.
(sorry for crossposting)

Best wishes

Georges Depeyrot

THE THIRTY-FIFTH ANNUAL BYZANTINE STUDIES CONFERENCE
***LAST CALL FOR PAPERS***
Deadline for abstracts: Friday, April 20, 2009

The 35th Annual Byzantine Studies Conference (BSC) will be held at Florida State
University's Sarasota campus, including the John and Mable Ringling Museum of
Art from Thursday evening, November 5, through Sunday lunch, November 8.

The conference is the annual forum for the presentation and discussion of papers
on every aspect of Byzantine studies, and is open to all, regardless of
nationality or academic status.

We welcome proposals on all aspects of Byzantine studies; in addition, we
particularly welcome abstracts on these topics: Byzantine Lay Religion;
Political Theory; Military Religion; Texts related to Physical Objects; the
Byzantine military; Byzantium and its Classical Heritage; Evil in Byzantium;
Late Antiquity: Transformation or Decline?, Ammianus and Procopius; Byzantium
and the Renaissance; Byzantium and the early Islamic caliphate; Memory in
Byzantium; Archaeology and Our Knowledge of the Past; Art and Ritual; Recent
Developments: Collecting and Exhibiting Byzantine Art; Use of Technology in
Byzantine Studies; also sessions in honor of Prof. Angeliki Laiou: Late Antique
and Byzantine women, The Crusades/The Fourth Crusade, Byzantine Market and
Economy.

The meeting also will be the occasion of the annual meeting of the Byzantine
Studies Association of North America (BSANA) (http://www.bsana.net); those whose
papers are accepted must be members of BSANA:
http://www.bsana.net/membershipform.pdf  ($20 for faculty, $10 for students,
retired, and independent scholars).

Two copies of abstracts of no more than 500 words, accompanied by a separate
cover sheet with the title and your contact information and formatted according
to the instructions at http://www.bsana.net/conference/CFP_2009_extended.pdf,
should be sent to  BSANA Vice President Adam Schor at Adam.Schor@... by
April 20. Accepted abstracts will be published in the Byzantine Studies
Conference’s annual Abstracts of Papers.

Questions can be directed to Linda Jones Hall, Program Chair, St. Mary's College
of Maryland, at ljhall@...,

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Thiudans!
>
> Why have you disabled the possibility to upload files to Gothic list?
> As shown in Germanic list this possibility is extremely valuable and
> often used for the benefit of all list members. As moderator you must
> just allow all members to upload since now it is only you who can do that.
>
> Please!
>
> Ingemar
>

Okay, you should be able to upload files now. Sorry it took so long to respond.

You're welcome, Ingemar!


--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Peter!
>
> Thank you for your good help. When you say it is so I know I can rely
completely thereupon.
>
> Best greetings
> Ingemar
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The Greek word Eurhsei is evidently translated by Wulfila in a lot of
different senses. Once as pasture -winja - but also in many other aspects like
awake, protection et c. Which is the real meaning? Somebody who knows?
> >
> > jah winja bigitiþ = KAI NOMHN hEURHSEI "and he will find pasture"
> >
> > NOMHN = winja "pasture"
> > hEURHSEI = bigitiþ "he will find"
> >
> > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Grsartor@ wrote:
> > >
> > > However, if John 10:9 is the only place "winja" occurs at, I should  have
> > > thought that its nominative could as well be reconstructed as "wini", it 
then
> > > being a noun in the same class as bandi, haiti, and wasti.
> >
> > No, it has to be 'winja'. All these other examples have a long root: the
root ends in a consonant cluster ('bandi', 'wasti') or contains a long vowel or
what was originally a diphthong ('haiti'). It's only feminines with a long root
which lose the final 'a' in the nominative. (In this definition, a monosyllable
ending in a diphthong counts as long, hence 'mawi'.) Since it has a short root,
'winja' would keep its 'a' in the nominative, like 'sunja' "truth", 'ludja'
"face", etc. The rule is explained, and more examples of each type listed, in
Wright §§ 192 and 193. Go. 'winja' corresponds exactly to Old Icelandic 'vin'
(genitive singular 'vinjar').
> >
>

Hi Peter!

Thank you for your good help. When you say it is so I know I can rely completely
thereupon.

Best greetings
Ingemar
--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@> wrote:
> >
> > The Greek word Eurhsei is evidently translated by Wulfila in a lot of
different senses. Once as pasture -winja - but also in many other aspects like
awake, protection et c. Which is the real meaning? Somebody who knows?
>
> jah winja bigitiþ = KAI NOMHN hEURHSEI "and he will find pasture"
>
> NOMHN = winja "pasture"
> hEURHSEI = bigitiþ "he will find"
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Grsartor@ wrote:
> >
> > However, if John 10:9 is the only place "winja" occurs at, I should  have
> > thought that its nominative could as well be reconstructed as "wini", it 
then
> > being a noun in the same class as bandi, haiti, and wasti.
>
> No, it has to be 'winja'. All these other examples have a long root: the root
ends in a consonant cluster ('bandi', 'wasti') or contains a long vowel or what
was originally a diphthong ('haiti'). It's only feminines with a long root which
lose the final 'a' in the nominative. (In this definition, a monosyllable ending
in a diphthong counts as long, hence 'mawi'.) Since it has a short root, 'winja'
would keep its 'a' in the nominative, like 'sunja' "truth", 'ludja' "face", etc.
The rule is explained, and more examples of each type listed, in Wright §§ 192
and 193. Go. 'winja' corresponds exactly to Old Icelandic 'vin' (genitive
singular 'vinjar').
>

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@...> wrote:
>
> The Greek word Eurhsei is evidently translated by Wulfila in a lot of
different senses. Once as pasture -winja - but also in many other aspects like
awake, protection et c. Which is the real meaning? Somebody who knows?

jah winja bigitiþ = KAI NOMHN hEURHSEI "and he will find pasture"

NOMHN = winja "pasture"
hEURHSEI = bigitiþ "he will find"

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Grsartor@... wrote:
>
> However, if John 10:9 is the only place "winja" occurs at, I should  have
> thought that its nominative could as well be reconstructed as "wini", it  then
> being a noun in the same class as bandi, haiti, and wasti.

No, it has to be 'winja'. All these other examples have a long root: the root
ends in a consonant cluster ('bandi', 'wasti') or contains a long vowel or what
was originally a diphthong ('haiti'). It's only feminines with a long root which
lose the final 'a' in the nominative. (In this definition, a monosyllable ending
in a diphthong counts as long, hence 'mawi'.) Since it has a short root, 'winja'
would keep its 'a' in the nominative, like 'sunja' "truth", 'ludja' "face", etc.
The rule is explained, and more examples of each type listed, in Wright §§ 192
and 193. Go. 'winja' corresponds exactly to Old Icelandic 'vin' (genitive
singular 'vinjar').

On Mar 30, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Ingemar Nordgren wrote:
> Since we have the word 'vini' in Sw. and Norw. for pasture I am
> wondering wether Northgermanic, as I have allways beleived, is
> closer connected to Gothic than Westgermanic. Thats the main reson.
> I am involved in a discussion and I have to know what I talk about
> even if I am not a linguists. Ther are as you know a lot of words
> for pastue like Weide, Wiese et c. Thy pasture is in Sw. gennerally
> 'beta', to grass, which must be connected with 'bite'. The use by
> Wulfila of certain words hence makes a confusion.
>
> Hope you understand the problem!
> Thank yoou for the help.
> Ingemar
>

I suspect all of us have wondered about that.

Another question: how could we determine what languages pre-existed
Gothic north of the Danube? On historical grounds we can assume some
Alanic language, and either Dacian or a Danubian Latin dialect. Slavic
languages are also possible. But how, for example, would we detect an
earlier Germanic substrate, perhaps Bastarnaean?

Marja Erwin
marja-e@...

Thank you for that! If you are right m y theories are resting on a better
foundation. However as allways some considerations must be maintained but still
it is encouraging.

Best
Ingemar

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Grsartor@... wrote:
>
> The Gothic word "winja" is, according to W. P. Lehmann, a feminine noun  with
> the same nominative and accusative. It occurs in John 10:9, where it
> translates the Greek "nome", which in the New Revised Standard Version is 
"pasture".
> However, if John 10:9 is the only place "winja" occurs at, I should  have
> thought that its nominative could as well be reconstructed as "wini", it  then
> being a noun in the same class as bandi, haiti, and wasti.
>
> Perhaps comparison with other Germanic tongues would allow a decision to be
> made between these possibilities, but I am not qualified to give guidance on
> this. Its kin, again according to Lehmann, include Old Icelandic vin and OHG
> winne, both meaning meadow, and OI yndi (neuter) and OHG wunna (feminine)
> meaning happiness.
>
> Gerry T.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Since we have the word 'vini' in Sw. and Norw. for pasture I am wondering wether
Northgermanic, as I have allways beleived, is closer connected to Gothic than
Westgermanic. Thats the main reson. I am involved in a discussion and I have to
know what I talk about even if I am not a linguists. Ther are as you know a lot
of words for  pastue like Weide, Wiese et c. Thy pasture is in Sw. gennerally
'beta', to grass, which  must be connected with 'bite'. The use by Wulfila of
certain words hence makes a confusion.

Hope you understand the problem!
Thank yoou for the help.
Ingemar


--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Ian Ragsdale <delvebelow@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ingemar,
>
> I'm curious what you're after with this etymology.  The OED gives Sw. vinna
> for AS winnan, ON vinna; my guess would be that it's a different root than
> what you're going for with vinja, Sw. -vin.
>
> You might also check Kluge for etymology of Wiese.  I don't think he
> connects it to vinja, et al., or even to a *wisa.  Ditto for Wiede.  If you
> don't have a copy I can get the entry to you later.
>
> Since vinja is fem. I wouldn't be surprised for it to have identical nom.
> and acc. forms, but I'm no expert with what the convergence of genders did
> to modern Swedish accidence.
>
> IMR
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@...>wrote:
>
> >   --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com <gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com>, Ian
> > Ragsdale <delvebelow@> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Ian!
> >
> > You say alternatively vini. This happens to be the correct complete Swedish
> > form. In any case it appears to lie quite close to Gothic. In Sw. of course
> > the genus is realgenus(it=den) which is close to neutrum(it=det). It might
> > have affected the nominative??
> >
> > Best
> > Ingemar
> >
> >
> > > From Wright's Gothic Grammar:
> > >
> > > "#192 (o-stems)...
> > > jo-stems - with a short radical syllable [including words in -ja and with
> > a
> > > monosyllabic root]...The nom. sing. had its -a either from the pure
> > o-stems
> > > or else it was the acc. used for the old nominative."
> > >
> > > IMO, since "vinja" has a short mono-syllabic root, the nom. is probably
> > > "vinja."
> > >
> > > If it was long or polysyllabic, the nom. would be "vini." But that does
> > not
> > > appear to be the case.
> > >
> > > IMR
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@>wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Could somebody among all you linguistic wizards help me to estimate a
> > > > nominative of the ack. form 'vinja' f. meaning Grassing place for
> > cattle,
> > > > Germ. Weide, Sw. -vin, -vene in the end of place names. Unhappily
> > enough
> > > > ack. is the only form in which the word is attested. I think the Pgm
> > form
> > > > might be wisa and that Germ.Wiese comes from the same word. Evidently
> > it is
> > > > also connected with AS wynne, desire, longing.
> > > >
> > > > Look forward to an understandable answer without too many lingvistic
> > > > equilibrances.
> > > >
> > > > Best
> > > > Ingemar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

The Gothic word "winja" is, according to W. P. Lehmann, a feminine noun  with
the same nominative and accusative. It occurs in John 10:9, where it
translates the Greek "nome", which in the New Revised Standard Version is 
"pasture".
However, if John 10:9 is the only place "winja" occurs at, I should  have
thought that its nominative could as well be reconstructed as "wini", it  then
being a noun in the same class as bandi, haiti, and wasti.

Perhaps comparison with other Germanic tongues would allow a decision to be
made between these possibilities, but I am not qualified to give guidance on
this. Its kin, again according to Lehmann, include Old Icelandic vin and OHG
winne, both meaning meadow, and OI yndi (neuter) and OHG wunna (feminine)
meaning happiness.

Gerry T.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ingemar,

I'm curious what you're after with this etymology.  The OED gives Sw. vinna
for AS winnan, ON vinna; my guess would be that it's a different root than
what you're going for with vinja, Sw. -vin.

You might also check Kluge for etymology of Wiese.  I don't think he
connects it to vinja, et al., or even to a *wisa.  Ditto for Wiede.  If you
don't have a copy I can get the entry to you later.

Since vinja is fem. I wouldn't be surprised for it to have identical nom.
and acc. forms, but I'm no expert with what the convergence of genders did
to modern Swedish accidence.

IMR



On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@...>wrote:

>   --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com <gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com>, Ian
> Ragsdale <delvebelow@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you Ian!
>
> You say alternatively vini. This happens to be the correct complete Swedish
> form. In any case it appears to lie quite close to Gothic. In Sw. of course
> the genus is realgenus(it=den) which is close to neutrum(it=det). It might
> have affected the nominative??
>
> Best
> Ingemar
>
>
> > From Wright's Gothic Grammar:
> >
> > "#192 (o-stems)...
> > jo-stems - with a short radical syllable [including words in -ja and with
> a
> > monosyllabic root]...The nom. sing. had its -a either from the pure
> o-stems
> > or else it was the acc. used for the old nominative."
> >
> > IMO, since "vinja" has a short mono-syllabic root, the nom. is probably
> > "vinja."
> >
> > If it was long or polysyllabic, the nom. would be "vini." But that does
> not
> > appear to be the case.
> >
> > IMR
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar@...>wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Could somebody among all you linguistic wizards help me to estimate a
> > > nominative of the ack. form 'vinja' f. meaning Grassing place for
> cattle,
> > > Germ. Weide, Sw. -vin, -vene in the end of place names. Unhappily
> enough
> > > ack. is the only form in which the word is attested. I think the Pgm
> form
> > > might be wisa and that Germ.Wiese comes from the same word. Evidently
> it is
> > > also connected with AS wynne, desire, longing.
> > >
> > > Look forward to an understandable answer without too many lingvistic
> > > equilibrances.
> > >
> > > Best
> > > Ingemar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

The Greek word Eurhsei is evidently translated by Wulfila in a lot of different
senses. Once as pasture -winja - but also in many other aspects like awake,
protection et c. Which is the real meaning? Somebody who knows?

Ingemar