Here's some chaotic notes I made on the subject of reconstructing the
Gothic calendar a couple of years ago after a discussion here.  The
page displays best in Internet Explorer for some reason.

http://www.oe.eclipse.co.uk/nom/calendar.htm

There are some interesting month names in Danish, Norwegian and
Swedish we ought to look at too, e.g. Danish Glugmånad, Blide-, Tor-,
Fare-, Maj-, Høj-, Orme-, Høst-, Fiske-, Sæde-, Slagte-, Jule-.  Do
you have a list of Swedish months, Ingemar?  Ignore the speculations
based on the supposed *Naubaimbair, obviously...



--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@...> wrote:
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> >
> > Many thanks for this Arthur.  I read it ages ago, but had
> completely
> > forgotten that detail about the phantom status of *Naubaimbair!
> >
> > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/index.html
> > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/report.pdf
> >
> > The relevant section is on p. 54.  Which leaves us with just 'fruma
> > jiuleis' as the name of the month, and no way of knowing whether
> the
> > illegible word was a synonym (*Naubaimbair or otherwise) or
> something
> > else entirely.
>
> But if Naubaimbair is a fancy, what's worth our reconstruction of
> the Gothic month names based on Latin? If only fruma jiuleis is
> attested, then one could logically suppose that all other Gothic
> month names were also Germanic. Afaik there were several Calender
> traditions in Germania, with their own month names. Which of them
> are we to follow? E.g. OHG and OE give only one match which could
> speak for Go. Austramenoþs "April".
>
> Ualarauans
>
> > Re. alternative names, I just came across the following Old West
> Norse
> > and Old Swedish proposals: Dróttins burðar tíð; gudz födzlo hötidh
> [
> > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julfest ], neither of which caught on.
> > So maybe we could have: 'fraujins mel gabaurþais', or similar.
> Bit of
> > a mouthful, I know...  Thinks: does the final vowel in
> Finnish 'juhla'
> > and 'joula' imply a specifically East Germanic origin for the
> > loanword, as opposed to Proto Germanic -o or Proto Nordic -u?  If
> so,
> > we have a nice piece of evidence for the survival of both versions
> in
> > East Germanic: *jaihvla and *jiula.
>

Hails

Good idea. It seems month names could be more flexible and adaptable
in the Germanic world. I think it reasonable to take those month-names
which most closely harmonize with the agricultural schedule of the
societies in the area where Goths lived during the 4th century.
According to the wiki page on Germanic calendars, December has Jul or
its variant.

January in OE, ON supports Jiuleis. OHG supports *hardu-menoths or
maybe eisa-

Feb. OE supports Sauil-, OHG supports Haurna-
Mar. OE Hre∂, ON supports Go. aina-mnths., OHG supports Go.
?*Laggi(?t[h])an(-mnths.)

May, OE & OHG support *threi- or *thrija-miluk-

June OE uses the Li∂ system; ON supports *Sauil- and OHG has Brach-
"fallow"

July ON and OHG both support Go. *hawi- or hauja-mnths.

Aug. revolves around plants and harvest: Go. *asani-mnths "harvest month".

Sep. OE, ON and OHG all support Go. *harbisi-mnths. "picking month".

Oct. lacks agreement.

Nov. might be something like nibla-mnths. or friuza-mnths.

Dec. would be Fruma Jiuleis I think.


It might be good to consider monthnames in the style of ON Heyannir,
OHG Scheiding, etc., that is the abstract or poetic terms rather than
forms dependent on suffixing -menoths.




--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@...> wrote:
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> >
> > Many thanks for this Arthur.  I read it ages ago, but had
> completely
> > forgotten that detail about the phantom status of *Naubaimbair!
> >
> > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/index.html
> > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/report.pdf
> >
> > The relevant section is on p. 54.  Which leaves us with just 'fruma
> > jiuleis' as the name of the month, and no way of knowing whether
> the
> > illegible word was a synonym (*Naubaimbair or otherwise) or
> something
> > else entirely.
>
> But if Naubaimbair is a fancy, what's worth our reconstruction of
> the Gothic month names based on Latin? If only fruma jiuleis is
> attested, then one could logically suppose that all other Gothic
> month names were also Germanic. Afaik there were several Calender
> traditions in Germania, with their own month names. Which of them
> are we to follow? E.g. OHG and OE give only one match which could
> speak for Go. Austramenoþs "April".
>
> Ualarauans
>
> > Re. alternative names, I just came across the following Old West
> Norse
> > and Old Swedish proposals: Dróttins burðar tíð; gudz födzlo hötidh
> [
> > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julfest ], neither of which caught on.
> > So maybe we could have: 'fraujins mel gabaurþais', or similar.
> Bit of
> > a mouthful, I know...  Thinks: does the final vowel in
> Finnish 'juhla'
> > and 'joula' imply a specifically East Germanic origin for the
> > loanword, as opposed to Proto Germanic -o or Proto Nordic -u?  If
> so,
> > we have a nice piece of evidence for the survival of both versions
> in
> > East Germanic: *jaihvla and *jiula.
>

I started that post before and ended after lunch, and LN sent his
helpful link in the meantime.

I quote a portion here:

"So... Here's my  attempt at a reconstructing the Gothic months based on
Old English.
____OE______MnE________Gothic_______
Ærra  Geola - December - *AFARJIULEIS
Æfterra Geola - January - *SULAMENOTHS
Solmonath  - February - *HROTHIMENOTHS
Hrethmonath - March - *AUSTRAMENOTHS
Eostremonath  - April - *THRIMILUKIMENOTHS
Thrimilci - May - FRUMA *LINTHJA? or *leitha?
Ærra  Litha - June - AFARLINTHJA? or *leitha?
Æfterra Litha - July - *WIUDAMENOTHS,  *RUGJA-ASANS
Weodmonath - August - *HAILAGAMENOTHS, or * (SA) HAILAGA MENOTHS,
*ASANAMENOTHS
Haligmonath (later: Hærfestmonath) - September - *WINTRUFULLITHS
Winterfylleth  - October - *BLOTAMENOTHS
Blotmonath - November - FRUMA JIULEIS

Of  course, chances are the real Gothic calendar diverged from the
Anglo-Saxon much  more than this, both in names and their application,
just as the Norse and German  did. Maybe it shared features with the
calendars of other Germanic peoples. Or  maybe the old names were soon
abandoned in favour of the Roman ones. Or maybe  just a few relics
survived like Fruma Jiuleis alongside the Latin names. Possibly  there
were multiple variants across the wide area settled by the Goths, just
as  there were within the other Germanic traditions. Probably we'll
never know.


Here's  an alternative speculative calendar, being mainly a mix of
English and (Old High)  German names, mostly using (hypothetical)
cognates although Friusa- is a calque  on Lauwmaand, Eismond, etc.):

January - *FRIUSAMENOTHS,  *EISAMENOTHS, *HARDUMENOTHS, *HARDIGGS,
*WULFAMENOTHS
February - *HAURNIGGS,  *SULAMENOTHS (or *Muldamenoths)
March - *LAGGATEINS, *HROTHIMENOTHS
April  - *AUSTRAMENOTHS (or *Paskamenoths)
May - *WINJAMENOTHS
June - FRUMA *LINTHJA,  *GRASAMENOTHS
July - *AFARLINTHJA, *HAUJAMENOTHS, *RUGJAASANS
August - *ASANAMENOTHS
September  - *HAILAGAMENOTHS, *WIDUMENOTHS, *AKRANAMENOTHS
October - *WINTRUFULLITHS
November  - FRUMA JIULEIS
December - *AFARJIULEIS

I wonder if there is any  other evidence lurking out there... I guess it
might be possible to narrow down  when the harvesting of these various
crops would have been in various Gothic territories.  Peter Heather
mentions the following as the most important crops in Chernjakhov
agriculture: wheat, barley & millet. Also harvested were: rye, oats,
peas,  acorns & hemp (Heather, 1998, p. 77)."

Which precisely echoes my thoughts given below.


> Good idea. It seems month names could be more flexible and adaptable
> in the Germanic world. I think it reasonable to take those month-names
> which most closely harmonize with the agricultural schedule of the
> societies in the area where Goths lived during the 4th century.
> According to the wiki page on Germanic calendars, December has Jul or
> its variant.


I think it will be helpful to have variants for each month, but it would
be most unhelpful to have the same name used for more than one month.

Also, I support latter Jiuleis having a separate marker and not a prefix
(despite Go. afardags, for which, however, there is no partner **fruma
dags). Perhaps Go. Anthar Jiuleis or Go. Aftuma Jiuleis. Alternately Go.
spediza / spedists Jiuleis.


-Th.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Feb. OE supports Sauil-,

All the sources I've seen cite 'sol' in OE Solmónaþ with a short
vowel: OE sol, n. "mud, mire, wet sand, wallowing place",
solu/solwe/sylu/syle, f. "mire, miry place"; sol, adjective "filthy",
solian "to make/become dirty", sylian "to make dirty", related by
ablaut to Go. bi-sáuljan.  So February is the muddy month, February
Fill-dyke (German variants: Volburn, Vulneburn), rather than the sunny
month!

http://runeberg.org/svetym/1029.html
http://runeberg.org/svetym/0911.html

Compare also the German name: Sollman (Selle, Sille, Sulle, Silmaent);
perhaps semantically related to Zelle, Zille, Zulle (cf. Go. *tulla
"sod", borrowed into Italian and distinguishable from Langobardic by
the unshifted initial consonant)?

LN




--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
>
> Hails
>
> Good idea. It seems month names could be more flexible and adaptable
> in the Germanic world. I think it reasonable to take those month-names
> which most closely harmonize with the agricultural schedule of the
> societies in the area where Goths lived during the 4th century.
> According to the wiki page on Germanic calendars, December has Jul or
> its variant.
>
> January in OE, ON supports Jiuleis. OHG supports *hardu-menoths or
> maybe eisa-
>
> Feb. OE supports Sauil-, OHG supports Haurna-
> Mar. OE Hre∂, ON supports Go. aina-mnths., OHG supports Go.
> ?*Laggi(?t[h])an(-mnths.)
>
> May, OE & OHG support *threi- or *thrija-miluk-
>
> June OE uses the Li∂ system; ON supports *Sauil- and OHG has
Brach-
> "fallow"
>
> July ON and OHG both support Go. *hawi- or hauja-mnths.
>
> Aug. revolves around plants and harvest: Go. *asani-mnths "harvest
month".
>
> Sep. OE, ON and OHG all support Go. *harbisi-mnths. "picking month".
>
> Oct. lacks agreement.
>
> Nov. might be something like nibla-mnths. or friuza-mnths.
>
> Dec. would be Fruma Jiuleis I think.
>
>
> It might be good to consider monthnames in the style of ON Heyannir,
> OHG Scheiding, etc., that is the abstract or poetic terms rather than
> forms dependent on suffixing -menoths.
>
>
>
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this Arthur.  I read it ages ago, but had
> > completely
> > > forgotten that detail about the phantom status of *Naubaimbair!
> > >
> > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/index.html
> > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/report.pdf
> > >
> > > The relevant section is on p. 54.  Which leaves us with just 'fruma
> > > jiuleis' as the name of the month, and no way of knowing whether
> > the
> > > illegible word was a synonym (*Naubaimbair or otherwise) or
> > something
> > > else entirely.
> >
> > But if Naubaimbair is a fancy, what's worth our reconstruction of
> > the Gothic month names based on Latin? If only fruma jiuleis is
> > attested, then one could logically suppose that all other Gothic
> > month names were also Germanic. Afaik there were several Calender
> > traditions in Germania, with their own month names. Which of them
> > are we to follow? E.g. OHG and OE give only one match which could
> > speak for Go. Austramenoþs "April".
> >
> > Ualarauans
> >
> > > Re. alternative names, I just came across the following Old West
> > Norse
> > > and Old Swedish proposals: Dróttins burðar tíð; gudz födzlo hötidh
> > [
> > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julfest ], neither of which caught on.
> > > So maybe we could have: 'fraujins mel gabaurþais', or similar.
> > Bit of
> > > a mouthful, I know...  Thinks: does the final vowel in
> > Finnish 'juhla'
> > > and 'joula' imply a specifically East Germanic origin for the
> > > loanword, as opposed to Proto Germanic -o or Proto Nordic -u?  If
> > so,
> > > we have a nice piece of evidence for the survival of both versions
> > in
> > > East Germanic: *jaihvla and *jiula.
> >
>

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
>
>Also, I support latter Jiuleis having a separate marker and not a prefix
(despite Go. afardags, for which, however, there is no partner **fruma
dags). Perhaps Go. Anthar Jiuleis or Go. Aftuma Jiuleis. Alternately Go.
spediza / spedists Jiuleis.

I was thinking of the parallel with 'fruma sabbato' = PROSABBATON :
'þis dagis afarsabbate' = THi MIAi TWN SABBATWN.  The syntactical
alterations from the Greek could be significant, and 'afar' is
reminiscent of OE 'æfter(r)a géola'.  On the choice between
comparative and superlative (-iza : -ists), where there are only two
things being compared, Gothic "almost without exception" uses the
comparative, according to Streitberg, in contrast to NT Greek which
doesn't make this sharp distinction (Streitberg/Stopp 1981, 274a).

LN

Hails Frijandeis,

   Please allow me to throw a heathen ringer into this process. Llama Nom's
suggestion of months named for agricultural and other seasonal necessities
reminds me of the Latvian traditional (pre-Christian) months, a few of which
parallel the pondered Gothic equivalents:

   January          Ziemas  (winter)
   February        Svecu    (candles)
   March           Sersnu    (late frost)
   April              Sulu       (rising sap)
   May              Lapu      (leaves)
   June              Ziedu      (flowers)
   July               Siena      (hay)
   August           Rudzu    (rye)
   September     Silu        (heather)
   October        Velu       (devil)
   November     Sala      (winter frost)
   December     Vilku      (wolves)

   Unfortunately, modern Latvian uses numbers for days of the week
(pirmdiena=Monday, otrdiena=Tuesday, etc.), and Latin names for the months.
Diemzel es nepiekritu.

   Thuk golja,

   Aizamunds.



llama_nom <600cell@...> wrote:


> Feb. OE supports Sauil-,

All the sources I've seen cite 'sol' in OE Solmónaþ with a short
vowel: OE sol, n. "mud, mire, wet sand, wallowing place",
solu/solwe/sylu/syle, f. "mire, miry place"; sol, adjective "filthy",
solian "to make/become dirty", sylian "to make dirty", related by
ablaut to Go. bi-sáuljan. So February is the muddy month, February
Fill-dyke (German variants: Volburn, Vulneburn), rather than the sunny
month!

http://runeberg.org/svetym/1029.html
http://runeberg.org/svetym/0911.html

Compare also the German name: Sollman (Selle, Sille, Sulle, Silmaent);
perhaps semantically related to Zelle, Zille, Zulle (cf. Go. *tulla
"sod", borrowed into Italian and distinguishable from Langobardic by
the unshifted initial consonant)?

LN

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
>
> Hails
>
> Good idea. It seems month names could be more flexible and adaptable
> in the Germanic world. I think it reasonable to take those month-names
> which most closely harmonize with the agricultural schedule of the
> societies in the area where Goths lived during the 4th century.
> According to the wiki page on Germanic calendars, December has Jul or
> its variant.
>
> January in OE, ON supports Jiuleis. OHG supports *hardu-menoths or
> maybe eisa-
>
> Feb. OE supports Sauil-, OHG supports Haurna-
> Mar. OE Hre∂, ON supports Go. aina-mnths., OHG supports Go.
> ?*Laggi(?t[h])an(-mnths.)
>
> May, OE & OHG support *threi- or *thrija-miluk-
>
> June OE uses the Li∂ system; ON supports *Sauil- and OHG has
Brach-
> "fallow"
>
> July ON and OHG both support Go. *hawi- or hauja-mnths.
>
> Aug. revolves around plants and harvest: Go. *asani-mnths "harvest
month".
>
> Sep. OE, ON and OHG all support Go. *harbisi-mnths. "picking month".
>
> Oct. lacks agreement.
>
> Nov. might be something like nibla-mnths. or friuza-mnths.
>
> Dec. would be Fruma Jiuleis I think.
>
>
> It might be good to consider monthnames in the style of ON Heyannir,
> OHG Scheiding, etc., that is the abstract or poetic terms rather than
> forms dependent on suffixing -menoths.
>
>
>
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this Arthur. I read it ages ago, but had
> > completely
> > > forgotten that detail about the phantom status of *Naubaimbair!
> > >
> > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/index.html
> > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/report.pdf
> > >
> > > The relevant section is on p. 54. Which leaves us with just 'fruma
> > > jiuleis' as the name of the month, and no way of knowing whether
> > the
> > > illegible word was a synonym (*Naubaimbair or otherwise) or
> > something
> > > else entirely.
> >
> > But if Naubaimbair is a fancy, what's worth our reconstruction of
> > the Gothic month names based on Latin? If only fruma jiuleis is
> > attested, then one could logically suppose that all other Gothic
> > month names were also Germanic. Afaik there were several Calender
> > traditions in Germania, with their own month names. Which of them
> > are we to follow? E.g. OHG and OE give only one match which could
> > speak for Go. Austramenoþs "April".
> >
> > Ualarauans
> >
> > > Re. alternative names, I just came across the following Old West
> > Norse
> > > and Old Swedish proposals: Dróttins burðar tíð; gudz födzlo hötidh
> > [
> > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julfest ], neither of which caught on.
> > > So maybe we could have: 'fraujins mel gabaurþais', or similar.
> > Bit of
> > > a mouthful, I know... Thinks: does the final vowel in
> > Finnish 'juhla'
> > > and 'joula' imply a specifically East Germanic origin for the
> > > loanword, as opposed to Proto Germanic -o or Proto Nordic -u? If
> > so,
> > > we have a nice piece of evidence for the survival of both versions
> > in
> > > East Germanic: *jaihvla and *jiula.
> >
>






ARTHUR A. JONES


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> Feb. OE supports Sauil-,

>All the sources I've seen cite 'sol' in OE Solmónaþ with a short
>vowel: OE sol, n. "mud, mire, wet sand, wallowing place",

Sorry for the accident. Of course it is the mire-month. I think Sauli-
might have been unconsciously influenced by sauljan (1).


--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" thiudans@ wrote:
> >
> >Also, I support latter Jiuleis having a separate marker and not a
prefix
> (despite Go. afardags, for which, however, there is no partner **fruma
> dags). Perhaps Go. Anthar Jiuleis or Go. Aftuma Jiuleis. Alternately
Go.
> spediza / spedists Jiuleis.
>
> I was thinking of the parallel with 'fruma sabbato' = PROSABBATON :
> 'þis dagis afarsabbate' = THi MIAi TWN SABBATWN.  The syntactical
> alterations from the Greek could be significant, and 'afar' is
> reminiscent of OE 'æfter(r)a géola'.  On the choice between
> comparative and superlative (-iza : -ists), where there are only two
> things being compared, Gothic "almost without exception" uses the
> comparative, according to Streitberg, in contrast to NT Greek which
> doesn't make this sharp distinction (Streitberg/Stopp 1981, 274a).
>
> LN
>

Sabbato is a strange word, practically indeclinable, and afarsabbate
apparently means "post-Sabbath period" (Koebler).
It would be unfortunate to have an asymmetric pair given the symmetry
of North and West Germanic examples.
If we did not have Fruma Jiuleis I would suggest Jiuleis & Afarjiuleis.
Aftuma is effectually a comparative meaning "last (of two parties), &c."
but I don't see it used in temporal contexts as afar is. Afar itself is
probably
more parallel to an adverb lost in other Gmc. langauges, cf. Orel's
PGmc. *afare vs. *afte. The latter produced the comparative *aftare
and adjective *aft(e)raz, as well as the (originally) M-superlative
*aftumon, OE æftemest.

-Th.

tammikuu
(January)      helmikuu
(February)      maaliskuu
(March)      huhtikuu
(April)      toukokuu
(May)      kesäkuu
(June)             heinäkuu
(July)      elokuu
(August)      syyskuu
(September)      lokakuu
(October)      marraskuu
(November)      joulukuu
(December)
http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/3236/?letter=C&spage\
=2

I couldn't find translations for the names but had to look up the parts:
1. Oak Moon
2. Pearl Moon
3. Earthy Moon
4. (? Related to shouting?) Moon
5. Sowing Moon
6. Summer Moon
7. Hay Moon
8. Life Moon
9. Autumn Moon
10. Mud Moon
11. Dead Moon
12. Yule Moon

Now that we've covered most of the appropriate region, what do you
think?

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002@...>
wrote:
>
> Hails Frijandeis,
>
>   Please allow me to throw a heathen ringer into this process. Llama
Nom's suggestion of months named for agricultural and other seasonal
necessities reminds me of the Latvian traditional (pre-Christian)
months, a few of which parallel the pondered Gothic equivalents:
>
>   January          Ziemas  (winter)
>   February        Svecu    (candles)
>   March           Sersnu    (late frost)
>   April              Sulu       (rising sap)
>   May              Lapu      (leaves)
>   June              Ziedu      (flowers)
>   July               Siena      (hay)
>   August           Rudzu    (rye)
>   September     Silu        (heather)
>   October        Velu       (devil)
>   November     Sala      (winter frost)
>   December     Vilku      (wolves)
>
>   Unfortunately, modern Latvian uses numbers for days of the week
(pirmdiena=Monday, otrdiena=Tuesday, etc.), and Latin names for the
months. Diemzel es nepiekritu.
>
>   Thuk golja,
>
>   Aizamunds.
>
>
>
> llama_nom 600cell@... wrote:
>
>
> > Feb. OE supports Sauil-,
>
> All the sources I've seen cite 'sol' in OE Solmónaþ with a short
> vowel: OE sol, n. "mud, mire, wet sand, wallowing place",
> solu/solwe/sylu/syle, f. "mire, miry place"; sol, adjective "filthy",
> solian "to make/become dirty", sylian "to make dirty", related by
> ablaut to Go. bi-sáuljan. So February is the muddy month, February
> Fill-dyke (German variants: Volburn, Vulneburn), rather than the sunny
> month!
>
> http://runeberg.org/svetym/1029.html
> http://runeberg.org/svetym/0911.html
>
> Compare also the German name: Sollman (Selle, Sille, Sulle, Silmaent);
> perhaps semantically related to Zelle, Zille, Zulle (cf. Go. *tulla
> "sod", borrowed into Italian and distinguishable from Langobardic by
> the unshifted initial consonant)?
>
> LN
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" thiudans@ wrote:
> >
> > Hails
> >
> > Good idea. It seems month names could be more flexible and adaptable
> > in the Germanic world. I think it reasonable to take those
month-names
> > which most closely harmonize with the agricultural schedule of the
> > societies in the area where Goths lived during the 4th century.
> > According to the wiki page on Germanic calendars, December has Jul
or
> > its variant.
> >
> > January in OE, ON supports Jiuleis. OHG supports *hardu-menoths or
> > maybe eisa-
> >
> > Feb. OE supports Sauil-, OHG supports Haurna-
> > Mar. OE Hre∂, ON supports Go. aina-mnths., OHG supports Go.
> > ?*Laggi(?t[h])an(-mnths.)
> >
> > May, OE & OHG support *threi- or *thrija-miluk-
> >
> > June OE uses the Li∂ system; ON supports *Sauil- and OHG has
> Brach-
> > "fallow"
> >
> > July ON and OHG both support Go. *hawi- or hauja-mnths.
> >
> > Aug. revolves around plants and harvest: Go. *asani-mnths "harvest
> month".
> >
> > Sep. OE, ON and OHG all support Go. *harbisi-mnths. "picking month".
> >
> > Oct. lacks agreement.
> >
> > Nov. might be something like nibla-mnths. or friuza-mnths.
> >
> > Dec. would be Fruma Jiuleis I think.
> >
> >
> > It might be good to consider monthnames in the style of ON Heyannir,
> > OHG Scheiding, etc., that is the abstract or poetic terms rather
than
> > forms dependent on suffixing -menoths.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks for this Arthur. I read it ages ago, but had
> > > completely
> > > > forgotten that detail about the phantom status of *Naubaimbair!
> > > >
> > > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/index.html
> > > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/report.pdf
> > > >
> > > > The relevant section is on p. 54. Which leaves us with just
'fruma
> > > > jiuleis' as the name of the month, and no way of knowing whether
> > > the
> > > > illegible word was a synonym (*Naubaimbair or otherwise) or
> > > something
> > > > else entirely.
> > >
> > > But if Naubaimbair is a fancy, what's worth our reconstruction of
> > > the Gothic month names based on Latin? If only fruma jiuleis is
> > > attested, then one could logically suppose that all other Gothic
> > > month names were also Germanic. Afaik there were several Calender
> > > traditions in Germania, with their own month names. Which of them
> > > are we to follow? E.g. OHG and OE give only one match which could
> > > speak for Go. Austramenoþs "April".
> > >
> > > Ualarauans
> > >
> > > > Re. alternative names, I just came across the following Old West
> > > Norse
> > > > and Old Swedish proposals: Dróttins burðar tíð; gudz
födzlo hötidh
> > > [
> > > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julfest ], neither of which caught
on.
> > > > So maybe we could have: 'fraujins mel gabaurþais', or
similar.
> > > Bit of
> > > > a mouthful, I know... Thinks: does the final vowel in
> > > Finnish 'juhla'
> > > > and 'joula' imply a specifically East Germanic origin for the
> > > > loanword, as opposed to Proto Germanic -o or Proto Nordic -u? If
> > > so,
> > > > we have a nice piece of evidence for the survival of both
versions
> > > in
> > > > East Germanic: *jaihvla and *jiula.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ARTHUR A. JONES
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Llama non,

You asked about the Swedish month-names. If we go back to the
Bondepraktika, which is not ON but just medieval we have:

January- Torsmånad
February- Göjemånad
March - Martius, Mars månad  (latin of course)
April - Aprilis, April månad (-"-            )
May - Majus, Maj månad       ( -"-           )
June -  Midsommarmånad (and Junius)
July -  Hömånad
August - Skördemånad
September - Höstmånad
October -  Slaktmånad
November - Vintermånad
December - Julmånad

Accordingly I fucked it up earlier with Göje and Slaughtermonth which
are February and October.

Suggestion for May I would say Lövmånad/Leafmonth since e.g. Maypole
is understood as a leafed pole. May bis the rebirth of leafed plants.

March and April I do not really know but I think it should be natural
with 'vårmånad'-spring month for April??

I am a bit dubious concerning Tor in january since he is connected
with farming and specially ploughing in old  saywords.At Borholm it
says 'Three (plough)lines for Þórr give a green spring'. During the
Disting the first symbolic ploughlines were made with sacrifice of
bread to Freja. I would  rather have Torsmånad in March as a
preparation for sowing and January would fit better to e.g.
frostmånad-Frost month or better Midvintermånad-Mid Winter month since
the Midwinter feast/Disting starts its cycle 21 januari but during  an
8-years cycle it moves until 19 february.At the Disting the first
symbolic ploughglines were taken and hence Ploughmonth -Torsmonth
would fit rather well the following month and before sowing/planting
in 'Vårmånaden'(Spring month)

This, as I say, is a medieval naming being used until almost modern
times and hence there has been a lot of late influence on the naming.

Best
Ingemar

Why do I never think before sending!

May is of course Summer month - sommarmånaden. It is natural since the
Nordic summer starts as I wrote yesterday around the 5th of May. That
is quite proven and hence May is Sommarmånaden. It is however not
mentioned in the Bondepraktika.

So we have now the natural list (as it should be):

January - Midvintermånad/Midwinter month
February - Göjemånad
March - Torsmånad/Torre månad /Plogmånad/Ploughing-/Planting-)?
April - Vårmånad/Spring month
May - Sommarmånad/summer month
June - Midsommarmånad/Midsummer month
July - Hömånad/Hay month
August - Skördemånad/Harwest month
September - Höstmånad/Autumn month
October -  Slaktmånad/Slaughter month
November - Vintermånad/Winter month (Winter starts c:a 4 nov.)
December - Julmånad/Yule month

Comment: According to Hellquist Torsmånad/Torre was originally in
March but was later understood as January.It could both be interpreted
as Þórr and as 'dry' winter. There is disagreement since nobody knows
for sure. Still  it fits with  Tor and ploughing. Göje is the first
Newmoon after January.

Best
Ingemar


--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Llama non,
>
> You asked about the Swedish month-names. If we go back to the
> Bondepraktika, which is not ON but just medieval we have:
>
> January- Torsmånad
> February- Göjemånad
> March - Martius, Mars månad  (latin of course)
> April - Aprilis, April månad (-"-            )
> May - Majus, Maj månad       ( -"-           )
> June -  Midsommarmånad (and Junius)
> July -  Hömånad
> August - Skördemånad
> September - Höstmånad
> October -  Slaktmånad
> November - Vintermånad
> December - Julmånad
>
> Accordingly I fucked it up earlier with Göje and Slaughtermonth which
> are February and October.
>
> Suggestion for May I would say Lövmånad/Leafmonth since e.g. Maypole
> is understood as a leafed pole. May bis the rebirth of leafed plants.
>
> March and April I do not really know but I think it should be natural
> with 'vårmånad'-spring month for April??
>
> I am a bit dubious concerning Tor in january since he is connected
> with farming and specially ploughing in old  saywords.At Borholm it
> says 'Three (plough)lines for Þórr give a green spring'. During the
> Disting the first symbolic ploughlines were made with sacrifice of
> bread to Freja. I would  rather have Torsmånad in March as a
> preparation for sowing and January would fit better to e.g.
> frostmånad-Frost month or better Midvintermånad-Mid Winter month since
> the Midwinter feast/Disting starts its cycle 21 januari but during  an
> 8-years cycle it moves until 19 february.At the Disting the first
> symbolic ploughglines were taken and hence Ploughmonth -Torsmonth
> would fit rather well the following month and before sowing/planting
> in 'Vårmånaden'(Spring month)
>
> This, as I say, is a medieval naming being used until almost modern
> times and hence there has been a lot of late influence on the naming.
>
> Best
> Ingemar
>

Thanks, Ingemar!  There are a few suggestions regarding the etymology
of Torsmånad here:

http://runeberg.org/svetym/1083.html

Judging by Icelandic þorri and Norwegian torre, it could be that the
association with the god Tor is a folk-etymology.  The idea that it
might have originally meant "dry month" is strange given all of these
names from England and Germany that refer to how wet it is!  But maybe
this is due to the different climate further north -- dry, I guess,
because the land is frozen (see the first ON quote below).  I've also
seen the Icelandic name interpreted as "frozen snow" (maybe still
related to this root meaning dry?).  Old Icelandic sources name Þorri
as the son of Snær (snow).  Snær's other children are named after
various types of snow (drift, blizzard, powdery snow).  Hversu Noregr
byggðisk:

Fornjótr hét maðr. Hann átti þrjá sonu; var einn Hlér, annarr Logi,
þriði Kári. Hann réð fyrir vindum, en Logi fyrir eldi, Hlér fyrir sjó.
Kári var faðir Jökuls, föður Snæs konungs, en börn Snæs konungs váru
þau Þorri, Fönn, Drífa ok Mjöll. Þorri var konungr ágætr. Hann réð
fyrir Gotlandi, Kænlandi ok Finnlandi. Hann blótuðu Kænir til þess, at
snjóva gerði ok væri skíðfæri gott. Þat er ár þeira. Þat blót skyldi
vera at miðjum vetri, ok var þaðan af kallaðr Þorra mánaðr.

(...The Kænir made sacrifices to him so that he would make it snow and
  there would be a good surface for skiing on.  That sacrificial feast
took place at midwinter and Þorri's month (Þorra mánaðr) was named
after it.)

Fundinn Noregr:

Fornjótr hefir konungr heitit. Hann réð fyrir Gotlandi, er kallat er
Finnland ok Kvenland. Þat er fyrir austan hafsbotn þann, er gengr til
móts við Gandvík; þat köllum vér Helsingjabotn. Fornjótr átti þrjá
syni. Hét einn Hlér, er vér köllum Ægi, annarr Logi, þriði Kári. Hann
var faðir Frosta, föður Snæs ins gamla. Hans sonr hét Þorri. Hann átti
tvá syni, hét annarr Nórr, en annarr Górr, dóttir hans hét Gói. Þorri
var blótmaðr mikill. Hann hafði blót á hverju ári at miðjum vetri; þat
kölluðu þeir Þorrablót. Af því tók mánaðrinn heiti.

Þat var tíðenda einn vetr at Þorrablóti, at Gói hvarf í brott, ok var
hennar leita farit, ok finnst hún eigi. Ok er sá mánaðr leið, lét
Þorri fá at blóti ok blóta til þess er þeir yrði vísir, hvar Gói væri
niðr komin; þat kölluðu þeir Góiblót.

http://www.snerpa.is/net/forn/fornjot.htm

Gói is the name of the next month after Þorri.  The other theory is
that þorri refers to the lessening of the severity of winter, the
reduction, dwindling, decrease, waning, coming-to-an-end of winter,
cf. Icelandic þverra "to dwindle, decrease"; þurðr (also 'þurða') "a
decrease, waning".

LN



--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Llama non,
>
> You asked about the Swedish month-names. If we go back to the
> Bondepraktika, which is not ON but just medieval we have:
>
> January- Torsmånad
> February- Göjemånad
> March - Martius, Mars månad  (latin of course)
> April - Aprilis, April månad (-"-            )
> May - Majus, Maj månad       ( -"-           )
> June -  Midsommarmånad (and Junius)
> July -  Hömånad
> August - Skördemånad
> September - Höstmånad
> October -  Slaktmånad
> November - Vintermånad
> December - Julmånad
>
> Accordingly I fucked it up earlier with Göje and Slaughtermonth which
> are February and October.
>
> Suggestion for May I would say Lövmånad/Leafmonth since e.g. Maypole
> is understood as a leafed pole. May bis the rebirth of leafed plants.
>
> March and April I do not really know but I think it should be natural
> with 'vårmånad'-spring month for April??
>
> I am a bit dubious concerning Tor in january since he is connected
> with farming and specially ploughing in old  saywords.At Borholm it
> says 'Three (plough)lines for Þórr give a green spring'. During the
> Disting the first symbolic ploughlines were made with sacrifice of
> bread to Freja. I would  rather have Torsmånad in March as a
> preparation for sowing and January would fit better to e.g.
> frostmånad-Frost month or better Midvintermånad-Mid Winter month since
> the Midwinter feast/Disting starts its cycle 21 januari but during  an
> 8-years cycle it moves until 19 february.At the Disting the first
> symbolic ploughglines were taken and hence Ploughmonth -Torsmonth
> would fit rather well the following month and before sowing/planting
> in 'Vårmånaden'(Spring month)
>
> This, as I say, is a medieval naming being used until almost modern
> times and hence there has been a lot of late influence on the naming.
>
> Best
> Ingemar
>

I'm not familiar with the traditional northern European calendars.
Some quick questions (1) how do we know the Gothic months line up
with Roman months? (2) how do we know whether the Gothic traditional
calendar was solar or lunar? (3) how do we know whether the Gothic
ecclesiastical calendar was solar or lunar?

With solar calendars, the months could start slightly earlier or
later, e.g. the nearest January-equivalent starting Dec. 22nd. With
lunar calendars, the months would shift back and forth. The last
month would periodically double. The calendar fragment seems to line
up with November, but that would happen from time to time with lunar
calendars. The Easter calculations combine solar (equinox) and lunar
(1st sunday after 1st sabbath after 1st full moon after...) elements
so a lunar ecclesiastical calendar isn't impossible.

Given the number of variants and our good Gothic habit of fighting
around each controvercy who can now say how long it will take until
we'll come to even a rough basic agreement about month names? It can
appear that the post bellum treaty will stop on the Latin-derived
names suggested by Llama, independently on whether Naubaimbair is a
phantom or not. Whatever it be, we'll seemingly have several
Germanic variants for each month, and using parallel Latin names
could be a nice way to avoid misunderstandings, at least in the
beginning (?). I'm citing them below to better visualize them:

Januareis M.-ja
Faibruareis M.-ja
Martjus M.-u
Apreilis M.-i
Majus M.-u
Junjus M.-u
Juljus M.-u
Awgustus M.-u
Saiptaimbair M.-a
Auktobair M.-a
Naubaimbair M.-a
Daikaimbair M.-a

Example:

Sa spedista dags Austramenoþs (Apreilis) is sa dags faura þizai
Weihon Wal<þu>baurgsnaht. "The last day of the Eastermonth (April)
is the day before the sacred Walpurgisnight". (Walpurgis = Go.
Walbaurgs or Walþubaurgs (OHG Waldburg). And, maybe, -baurga F.-o in
personal names?).

Questions:

Is Apreilis expected to behave in a way like sutis, i.e. gen.
Apreilis, dat. Apreilja, acc. Apreil(i)?

Lat. September, gen. Septembris etc. Wouldn't the Gothic form have
been *Saiptaimbrs M.-a, gen. Saiptaimbris etc? Or still
Saiptaimbair, gen. Saiptaimbairis (like wair)? The same concerns the
three consequent months too, of course. The Late Greek form is
SEPTEMBRIOS. Since when is it attested? If it was early enough (ca.
2-4 ct. CE), it could yield Go. Saiptaimbreis M.-ja or Saiptaimbrjus
M.-u.

Awgustus seems to me more preferable than Agustus, for the reasons
Llama expressed in his article.

Finally, a stupid question: if we dismiss Naubaimbair, how do we
know that fruma jiuleis is in fact not December?

Ualarauans

I have written a short poem, written in the epic style, and I would
like someone to check my grammar, as I am new to learning gothic.  Is
there someone or a website that I can go to for help and questions?

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "brynhild84" <AaronCarpenter@...>
wrote:
>
> I have written a short poem, written in the epic style, and I would
> like someone to check my grammar, as I am new to learning gothic.  Is
> there someone or a website that I can go to for help and questions?
>


You can write it here for us to see.
And then we can help you with your grammar.

If you have any questions, about anything, ask them here.
There's always someone who knows the answer.

The Board and Editors of <i>The Heroic Age</i> would like to announce
our tenth issue located at www.heroicage.org.  With this issue, The
Heroic Age has introduced 2 sections of articles, one themed, and one
unthemed.  We hope you enjoy this issue.  Below, I've included a
table of contents, and I would also like to remind you of our Calls
for Papers for upcoming issues.

Issue 10:
Articles: Saints and Sanctity
Relics, Religious Authority, and the Sanctification of Domestic Space
in the Home Gregory of Tours: An Analysis of the Glory of the
Confessors 20
by Dennis Quinn

Miracle Stories and the Primary Purpose of Adomnán's Vita Columbae
by Sara E. Ellis Nilsson

Preserving the Body Christian: The Motif of "Recapitation" in
Ireland's Medieval Hagiography  by Máire Johnson

Boniface's Booklife: How the Ragyndrudis Codex Came to be a Vita
Bonifatii by Michel Aaij

Tradition and Transformation in the Cult of St. Guthlac in Early
Medieval England by John R. Black

Articles-Unthemed Section

The P-Celtic Place-Names of North-East England and South-East Scotland
by Bethany Fox

Trade, Gift-giving and Romanitas: A Comparison of the Use of Roman
Imports in Western Britain and Southern Scandinavia by Thomas Green

Editions and Translations

The Revelatio Ecclesiae de Sancti Michaelis and the Mediterranean
Origins of Mont St.-Michel by John Charles Arnold (Forthcoming)

Columns

The Forum: The Historicity and Historiography of Arthur: A critical
review of King Arthur: Myth-Making and History by N. Higham, and The
Reign of Arthur: From History to Legend by C. Gidlow  by Howard M.
Wiseman

Electronic Medievalia: If I were "You": How Academics Can Stop
Worrying and Learn to Love "the Encyclopedia that Anyone Can Edit" by
Daniel Paul O'Donnell

Continental Business by Michel Aaij

History by Biography:

The Changing Hagiography of St. Æthelthryth by Stacie Turner

Saint Elisabeth of Thuringia, 1207-2007 by Michel Aaij

In addition we have our book reviews edited by Brad Eden from various
contributors and recent losses to the Medieval community.

Issue 11 is planned for a mid-summer release.

Larry J. Swain

Hello from france,

I come on your group because i would found someone to translate 4
shorts sentences in gothic language

i prefer you discover yourself my short text already translated in 100 languages
some by scientifics
here : http://pouemes.free.fr/poesie/poem-translations.htm

i hope someone could help me
thanks
* french is the original

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Pouemes Yahoo" <pouemes@...> wrote:
>
> Hello from france,
>
> I come on your group because i would found someone to translate 4
> shorts sentences in gothic language
>
> i prefer you discover yourself my short text already translated in
100 languages some by scientifics
> here : http://pouemes.free.fr/poesie/poem-translations.htm
>
> i hope someone could help me
> thanks
> * french is the original


Hello,

Here's one possible way to translate it:

Ton image dans la glace
Frisahts þeina in skuggwin

C'est mon plus beau poème
saggws meins sa batista ist.

Mais fais vite il s'efface
Iþ sniw! Usleiþiþ auk.

C'est mon dernier je t'aime !
Þata ist mein spedist "þuk frijo".

thanks llama

Is there a more specific keyboard for gothic or just like this?


Frisahts þeina in skuggwin
Saggws meins sa batista ist.
Iþ sniw! Usleiþiþ auk.
Þata ist mein spedist "þuk frijo".

In my mind gothic letters where very specific..
waiting for your answer
still thanks
jyves



--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Pouemes Yahoo" <pouemes@...> wrote:
>
> Hello from france,
>
> I come on your group because i would found someone to translate 4
> shorts sentences in gothic language
>
> i prefer you discover yourself my short text already translated in
100 languages some by scientifics
> here : http://pouemes.free.fr/poesie/poem-translations.htm
>
> i hope someone could help me
> thanks
> * french is the original

Hello,

Here's one possible way to translate it:

Ton image dans la glace
Frisahts þeina in skuggwin

C'est mon plus beau poème
saggws meins sa batista ist.

Mais fais vite il s'efface
Iþ sniw! Usleiþiþ auk.

C'est mon dernier je t'aime !
Þata ist mein spedist "þuk frijo".

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hello llama,

Your translation is online

http://pouemes.free.fr/poesie/poem-translations.htm

i suppressed . ! " and used this font
http://www.simplythebest.net/fonts/fonts/gothic_1.html

tell me if all is ok and give me your firstname if you want i put it under your
translation..

thanks

jy





thanks llama

Is there a more specific keyboard for gothic or just like this?

Frisahts þeina in skuggwin
Saggws meins sa batista ist.
Iþ sniw! Usleiþiþ auk.
Þata ist mein spedist "þuk frijo".

In my mind gothic letters where very specific..
waiting for your answer
still thanks
jyves

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Pouemes Yahoo" <pouemes@...> wrote:
>
> Hello from france,
>
> I come on your group because i would found someone to translate 4
> shorts sentences in gothic language
>
> i prefer you discover yourself my short text already translated in
100 languages some by scientifics
> here : http://pouemes.free.fr/poesie/poem-translations.htm
>
> i hope someone could help me
> thanks
> * french is the original

Hello,

Here's one possible way to translate it:

Ton image dans la glace
Frisahts þeina in skuggwin

C'est mon plus beau poème
saggws meins sa batista ist.

Mais fais vite il s'efface
Iþ sniw! Usleiþiþ auk.

C'est mon dernier je t'aime !
Þata ist mein spedist "þuk frijo".

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, that looks good.  I have one correction to make to my translation:
I should have written "sniu", instead of "sniw".  The Gothic scribes
placed a dieresis/trema over "i" when it stands at the beginning of a
syllable, like this: [ http://www.oe.eclipse.co.uk/nom/frisahts.htm ].

My first name is Peter.



--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Pouemes Yahoo" <pouemes@...> wrote:
>
> hello llama,
>
> Your translation is online
>
> http://pouemes.free.fr/poesie/poem-translations.htm
>
> i suppressed . ! " and used this font
http://www.simplythebest.net/fonts/fonts/gothic_1.html
>
> tell me if all is ok and give me your firstname if you want i put it
under your translation..
>
> thanks
>
> jy
>
>
>
>
>
> thanks llama
>
> Is there a more specific keyboard for gothic or just like this?
>
> Frisahts þeina in skuggwin
> Saggws meins sa batista ist.
> Iþ sniw! Usleiþiþ auk.
> Þata ist mein spedist "þuk frijo".
>
> In my mind gothic letters where very specific..
> waiting for your answer
> still thanks
> jyves
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Pouemes Yahoo" <pouemes@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello from france,
> >
> > I come on your group because i would found someone to translate 4
> > shorts sentences in gothic language
> >
> > i prefer you discover yourself my short text already translated in
> 100 languages some by scientifics
> > here : http://pouemes.free.fr/poesie/poem-translations.htm
> >
> > i hope someone could help me
> > thanks
> > * french is the original
>
> Hello,
>
> Here's one possible way to translate it:
>
> Ton image dans la glace
> Frisahts þeina in skuggwin
>
> C'est mon plus beau poème
> saggws meins sa batista ist.
>
> Mais fais vite il s'efface
> Iþ sniw! Usleiþiþ auk.
>
> C'est mon dernier je t'aime !
> Þata ist mein spedist "þuk frijo".
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Greetings all,
     Would someone please assist me with understanding verb
inflections?  For example, class IV verb "qiman", to come, arrive --
    (From verbix.com and Mr. Snaedal's concordance)

    This is what I've gleaned-
qiman--I come

qam-I came

qimau- I wish to come

qemjau- I wanted to come

qimands-?

qimandans--
qimanda--
qimandei-
qumans-----
qumana--
                Thank you, Gregory

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "g_scaff" <g_scaff@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings all,
>     Would someone please assist me with understanding verb
> inflections?  For example, class IV verb "qiman", to come, arrive --
>    (From verbix.com and Mr. Snaedal's concordance)
>
>    This is what I've gleaned-
> qiman--I come


No, this could be the infinitive, "(to) come", or it could be the
neuter singular nominative/accusative past participle, "come".


>
> qam-I came


That's right, or it could also be the 3rd person singular: he, she or
it came.


>
> qimau- I wish to come
>
> qemjau- I wanted to come


These two are 1st person singular subjunctive forms, present and past
respectively.  It's not possible to give one exact English equivalent
that will express all of the same meanings that the Gothic subjunctive
does.  For details on how the subjunctive is used in Gothic, see
Joseph Wright: A Grammar of the Gothic Language, pages 191-194 [
http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/texts/goth_wright_about.html ].


>
> qimands-?
>
> qimandans--
> qimanda--
> qimandei-


This is the present participle, "coming", with various inflections.
You can find the full declension on page 111 of Wright's grammar [
http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/goth_wright/b0111.png ].  He uses a
different verb as his example, but the endings are the same.


> qumans-----
> qumana--


This is the past participle.  'qumans' has the masculine nominative
singular ending; 'qumana' is feminine nominative/accusative singular,
or neuter nominative/accusative plural.  The past participle is
inflected as a regular a-stem adjective, like 'blinds' in Wright's
example [ http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/goth_wright/b0105.png ].

LN

Hi!

I wonder if anyone knows the origin of the ending in OE geolca/geoloca
(the origin of yolk)which is added to geolu = yellow.
If so, does gothic have any equivalent or could it be reconstructed?

Might this ending be cognate to the one in russian belki and ukrainan
bilok? These words mean protein and are made from bel- and bil- meaning
white.

Since dutch name protein eiwitten and german eiweiße a word made from
the word white + the ending in OE geolca could create a word meaning
egg white or protein. (OE hwítca?)

You see where this is going?
I'd like to find out a gothic word for protein made from this.

/Fredrik

how about adahveitam.....ada- egg and hveitam- whites

Fredrik <gadrauhts@...> wrote:          Hi!

I wonder if anyone knows the origin of the ending in OE geolca/geoloca
(the origin of yolk)which is added to geolu = yellow.
If so, does gothic have any equivalent or could it be reconstructed?

Might this ending be cognate to the one in russian belki and ukrainan
bilok? These words mean protein and are made from bel- and bil- meaning
white.

Since dutch name protein eiwitten and german eiweiße a word made from
the word white + the ending in OE geolca could create a word meaning
egg white or protein. (OE hwítca?)

You see where this is going?
I'd like to find out a gothic word for protein made from this.

/Fredrik






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I'd agree about *addi-hveitei F.-n (or maybe *addja-?). I'm not sure
if the OE ending = Go. –ik-/-uk- as a diminutive suffix. If it was,
then the Gothic form for "yolk" could be *gilwika M.-a, and for "eye
white" (and "protein"?) *hveitika M.-a. What I would argue with a
little more assuredness is that Slavik –úk- (like in be/ilok) can
not be cognate to the Germanic forms, save in the case it was
borrowed from there. The 1st consonant shift forbids that. The
Germanic match is probably Go. –(e)igs, -ags/-ahs; OE –ig, -eg.

Ualarauans

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@...> wrote:
>
> how about adahveitam.....ada- egg and hveitam- whites
>
> Fredrik <gadrauhts@...> wrote:          Hi!
>
> I wonder if anyone knows the origin of the ending in OE
geolca/geoloca
> (the origin of yolk)which is added to geolu = yellow.
> If so, does gothic have any equivalent or could it be
reconstructed?
>
> Might this ending be cognate to the one in russian belki and
ukrainan
> bilok? These words mean protein and are made from bel- and bil-
meaning
> white.
>
> Since dutch name protein eiwitten and german eiweiße a word made
from
> the word white + the ending in OE geolca could create a word
meaning
> egg white or protein. (OE hwítca?)
>
> You see where this is going?
> I'd like to find out a gothic word for protein made from this.
>
> /Fredrik

I'm not sure about the etymology of the suffix either, but OE 'geolca'
is also attested as 'geoleca' and 'geoloca', the latter being the more
archaic form, with -o- probably the adjective stem *w > *u > *o.

> I'd agree about *addi-hveitei F.-n (or maybe *addja-?).

Or *ai-hveitei or *addjis(a)-hveitei?  The first = the root as
inherited with no connecting vowel.  The second would be an analogical
formation, based on *addjis (thinking of Braune's observation that the
old es/os-stems were all reinterpreted in Gothic as neuter a-stems).
Maybe the best choice would be *addjis-hveitei, cf. sigis-laun.

LN


--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'd agree about *addi-hveitei F.-n (or maybe *addja-?). I'm not sure
> if the OE ending = Go. –ik-/-uk- as a diminutive suffix. If it was,
> then the Gothic form for "yolk" could be *gilwika M.-a, and for "eye
> white" (and "protein"?) *hveitika M.-a. What I would argue with a
> little more assuredness is that Slavik –úk- (like in be/ilok) can
> not be cognate to the Germanic forms, save in the case it was
> borrowed from there. The 1st consonant shift forbids that. The
> Germanic match is probably Go. –(e)igs, -ags/-ahs; OE –ig, -eg.
>
> Ualarauans
>
> --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@> wrote:
> >
> > how about adahveitam.....ada- egg and hveitam- whites
> >
> > Fredrik <gadrauhts@> wrote:          Hi!
> >
> > I wonder if anyone knows the origin of the ending in OE
> geolca/geoloca
> > (the origin of yolk)which is added to geolu = yellow.
> > If so, does gothic have any equivalent or could it be
> reconstructed?
> >
> > Might this ending be cognate to the one in russian belki and
> ukrainan
> > bilok? These words mean protein and are made from bel- and bil-
> meaning
> > white.
> >
> > Since dutch name protein eiwitten and german eiweiße a word made
> from
> > the word white + the ending in OE geolca could create a word
> meaning
> > egg white or protein. (OE hwítca?)
> >
> > You see where this is going?
> > I'd like to find out a gothic word for protein made from this.
> >
> > /Fredrik
>

Háils

How are Gothic names in -ila actually declined? Like "mana"? For
instance: Wulfila, gen. Wulfilins, dat. Wulfilin, acc. Wulfilan?

Alareiks and Aþanagilds: (n-stem)  Alareiks, gen. Alareikis, dat.
Alareik, acc. Alareik (why "Friþareikeis" in the Gothic calendar? This
would belong to the ja-stem);

Aþanagild, gen. Aþanagildis, dat. Aþanagild, acc. Aþanagild?

Regards

--- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Abdoer-Ragmaan Lombard"
<manielombard@...> wrote:
>
> Háils
>
> How are Gothic names in -ila actually declined? Like "manna"? For
> instance: Wulfila, gen. Wulfilins, dat. Wulfilin, acc. Wulfilan?

I think this is a reasonable assumption, although the only example
attested is Merila (nominative).

> Alareiks and Aþanagilds: (n-stem)  Alareiks, gen. Alareikis, dat.
> Alareik, acc. Alareik (why "Friþareikeis" in the Gothic calendar? This
> would belong to the ja-stem);

The question here is whether -reik- in names was interpreted as
equivalent to the noun 'reiks' "ruler" (consonant stem partly
assimilated to the a-stem declension), or to a hypothetical ja-stem
adjective *reikeis (or *reiks, i-stem?) "powerful".  The first option
seems most likely, given cognates in other Germanic languages.  The
scribe wrote Friþareikeikeis -- which presumably involves at least one
mistake!  My guess is that this stands for 'correct' Wulfilan Gothic
'Friþureikis' (genitive).  The use of 'ei' could be due to the
preceding 'ei' in the root, or it could be a variant spelling for 'i'
(there is some confusion in the manuscripts between 'i', 'ei' and 'e',
although the 'ei' : 'e' confusion is more common), or it could be to
do with a loss of distinction between vowels in unstressed syllables
(cf. the connecting vowel -a- in the first element of the name).

> Aþanagild, gen. Aþanagildis, dat. Aþanagild, acc. Aþanagild?

It seems to be treated as a second declension noun in Latin, so maybe
a Gothic a-stem?  Are there any names with this second element in the
other Germanic languages?

LN

Thanks, LN!

What do you mean by "consonant stem partly assimilated to the a-stem
declension"?

How would this affect Alareiks? Alareiks, gen. Alareikis, dat.
Alareik (or Alareika?), acc. Alareik

Aþanagild: Aþanagild, gen. Aþanagildis, dat. Aþanagilda, acc.
Aþanagild?

Would you also treat Þaúrismoþs and names ending in -"mers" as a-
stems?

Þaúrismoþs, gen. Þaúrismodis, dat. Þaúrismoda, acc. Þaúrismoþ?

M. Schönfeld in "Wörterbuch der altgermanischen Personen- und
Völkernamen" has:

Alagildus: -gild, das in vielen Namen erscheint - Beispiele bei
Förstemann 639flg. - stellt sich zu altnordisch "gildr" 'der etwas
wert
ist, tüchtig' und dem Zeitwort got. "gildan" usw. 'gelten'. Die
westgermanische Form ist eigentlich -geld(us).

Aligildus

Austeregildus: (fränkische Königin)

Ermenegildus: (Westgotenkönig)

Fandigildus: (wahrscheinlich ein Ostgote)

Gildila: (Ostgote), got. *Gildila, eine Koseform zu einem mit Gild-
zusammengestzten Namen.

Ingeldus, Ingildus (wahrscheinlich ein Burgunder) = gotisch *Iggilds.

Liwigildus: (Westgotenkönig)

Tarbigildus: (Greutung)

Widargildus: ahd. "Widargelt" 'der Wiedergelter, Rächer'

Greetings