growing-oo-software-guided-by-tests : Messages : 372-401 of 401

Hi all,�

I think I've found two typos in chapter 1.

In the Testing End-to-End paragraph, the last statement is:

The result is a more difficult release cycle than we would like, so we have to be understand our whole technical and organisational environment.�

to *be* understand sound strange to me...

In the Levels of Testing paragraph:

The distinction is that these the Integration Tests are there

the words "Integration Tests" seem redundant here.

HTH

Pietro Di Bello
Sourcesense - making sense of Open Source http://www.sourcesense.com

#373

From: "Pietro Di Bello" <pierodibello@...>
Date: Wed Aug 5, 2009 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: Introductions

pierodibello

Hi, I'm Pietro Di Bello, I'm a senior sw engineer, programming mainly in Java
(since 1999).
I follow and practice eXtreme Programming and Agile Methods since 2002.

Pietro


--- In growing-oo-software-guided-by-tests@yahoogroups.com, "nat_pryce"
<nat.pryce@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all.  There's now quite a few people in this group, some of whom we
> don't know (or we don't recognise your Yahoo IDs).  Time for
> introductions!
>
> Please reply, telling us who you are and what your background and
> experience is.
>
> Here's my bio to kick things off:
>
> I am Nat Pryce.  I develop software and provide consultancy and
> training in software design and development process and practices,
> mostly in the finance and telecoms industries. I'm also a part-time
> research fellow at Imperial College where I study privacy in mobile
> systems and do occasional teaching.
>
> I have about 15 years experience in the industry, in a variety of
> systems and languages, ranging from C for tiny mote devices to Java in
> global enterprise integration systems with all sorts of wierder
> languages in between.
>
> I'm one of the authors of the jMock unit-testing framework and the
> WindowLicker GUI testing framework.
>
> I (occasionally) blog at http://nat.truemesh.com.
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (29)

#374

From: Pietro Di Bello <pierodibello@...>
Date: Wed Aug 5, 2009 12:28 pm
Subject: Minor typo in chapter 8 - Building on Third-Party Code

pierodibello

Other minor typo in Chapter 8. Building on Third-Party Code, paragraph "Only Mock Types That You Own":

To develop against an third-party API...

Seems�to�me�to�be�more�correct�to�use�"a�third-party�API"

Pietro Di Bello

Sourcesense - making sense of Open Source http://www.sourcesense.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pietro Di Bello <pierodibello@...>
Date: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 14:07
Subject: Typos in Chapter 1
To: growing-oo-software-guided-by-tests@yahoogroups.com

Hi all,�

I think I've found two typos in chapter 1.

In the Testing End-to-End paragraph, the last statement is:

The result is a more difficult release cycle than we would like, so we have to be understand our whole technical and organisational environment.�

to *be* understand sound strange to me...

In the Levels of Testing paragraph:

The distinction is that these the Integration Tests are there

the words "Integration Tests" seem redundant here.

HTH

Pietro Di Bello
Sourcesense - making sense of Open Source http://www.sourcesense.com

#375

From: Steve Freeman <steve@...>
Date: Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:41 pm
Subject: Re: Minor typo in chapter 8 - Building on Third-Party Code

smg_freeman

Thanks for helping out. I should point out that the on-line version is
rather out of date and we've nearly finished copy editing.

Sorry for not being clearer

S.

On 5 Aug 2009, at 13:28, Pietro Di Bello wrote:
> Other minor typo in Chapter 8. Building on Third-Party Code,
> paragraph "Only Mock Types That You Own":

Steve Freeman
Winner of the Agile Alliance Gordon Pask award 2006

http://www.m3p.co.uk

M3P Limited.
Registered office. 2 Church Street, Burnham, Bucks, SL1 7HZ.
Company registered in England & Wales. Number 03689627

#376

From: "Pete Keller" <pete@...>
Date: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:24 pm
Subject: What is the current status

pete_keller

When will we see it in print?

Thanks
Pete

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#377

From: "nat_pryce" <nat.pryce@...>
Date: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: What is the current status

nat_pryce

--- In growing-oo-software-guided-by-tests@yahoogroups.com, "Pete Keller"
<pete@...> wrote:
>
> When will we see it in print?

It will be out in November.

--Nat

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#378

From: "Pete Keller" <pete@...>
Date: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: Re: What is the current status

pete_keller

On Mon, August 17, 2009 13:11, nat_pryce wrote:
> --- In growing-oo-software-guided-by-tests@yahoogroups.com, "Pete Keller"
> <pete@...> wrote:
>>
>> When will we see it in print?
>
> It will be out in November.
>
> --Nat
>

Sounds like a Christmas present to me.    8)  <cue Snoopy Dance Music here>

Thanks
Pete

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#379

From: George Dinwiddie <lists@...>
Date: Tue Sep 1, 2009 4:20 pm
Subject: state machine diagram (was: [TDD] incomplete vs broken)

gdinwiddie

Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>> I would once again humbly suggest that you might be starting with the
>>>>>> wrong test. If you are doing TDD you should be starting with a unit
>>>>>> test for the thing you are about to write, not with a functional test
>>>>>> that requires you to integrate pieces that don't yet exist.
>>>>> Starting with a functional test as a statement of where you're heading
>>>>> is
>>>> a
>>>>> perfectly fine way to do TDD.
>>>>>
>>>> Provided you can make that functional test pass with a simple
>>>> implementation that can be written in under a minute I agree.
>>>> Otherwise, it may work for you, but it isn't TDD.
>>>>
>> In other words: TDD is, "Write a test, see it fail, get it to pass,
>> refactor, repeat." If you skip (or delay) the "get it to pass" part
>> you are doing something, but it isn't TDD.
>>
>>> Citation?
>>>
>> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestDrivenDevelopment
>>
>
> That's one school of thought. Here's another:
> http://www.mockobjects.com/book/ongoing.html

Irrespective of the quibbling on the TDD list, I saw the diagram
http://www.mockobjects.com/book/figures/listening-to-tests.png and found
it a little troubling.  To me, it seems to suggest writing a failing
test and then refactoring, without making the test pass first.

I forget whether this is a mealy or moore state machine diagram, but one
   of them represents steady state as the nodes, and actions as the arcs.
   Would that make for a less misinterpreted diagram?

   - George
     [Apologizing again for not keeping up with the book and this list]


--
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    * George Dinwiddie *                      http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
    Software Development                    http://www.idiacomputing.com
    Consultant and Coach                    http://www.agilemaryland.org
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------

#380

From: Steve Freeman <steve@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 9:08 am
Subject: Re: state machine diagram (was: [TDD] incomplete vs broken)

smg_freeman

the intention is that sometimes you have to refactor a broken test to
make the error messages meaningful before making it pass.
Unfortunately, I think it's too late to change the figure now.

Thanks

S.

On 1 Sep 2009, at 17:20, George Dinwiddie wrote:
> Irrespective of the quibbling on the TDD list, I saw the diagram
> http://www.mockobjects.com/book/figures/listening-to-tests.png and
> found
> it a little troubling.  To me, it seems to suggest writing a failing
> test and then refactoring, without making the test pass first.
>
> I forget whether this is a mealy or moore state machine diagram, but
> one
>  of them represents steady state as the nodes, and actions as the
> arcs.
>  Would that make for a less misinterpreted diagram?
>
>  - George
>    [Apologizing again for not keeping up with the book and this list]
>

#381

From: Nat Pryce <nat.pryce@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:16 pm
Subject: Re: state machine diagram (was: [TDD] incomplete vs broken)

nat_pryce

Actually the intention is that while trying to write a test you sometimes have to go back and refactor (on green -- hence the green arc) to get the code into a state that lets you easily write the test (which is then red).

--Nat

www.natpryce.com

On 2 Sep 2009, at 10:08, Steve Freeman <steve@...> wrote:

the intention is that sometimes you have to refactor a broken test to
make the error messages meaningful before making it pass.
Unfortunately, I think it's too late to change the figure now.

Thanks

S.

On 1 Sep 2009, at 17:20, George Dinwiddie wrote:
> Irrespective of the quibbling on the TDD list, I saw the diagram
> http://www.mockobjects.com/book/figures/listening-to-tests.png and
> found
> it a little troubling. To me, it seems to suggest writing a failing
> test and then refactoring, without making the test pass first.
>
> I forget whether this is a mealy or moore state machine diagram, but
> one
> of them represents steady state as the nodes, and actions as the
> arcs.
> Would that make for a less misinterpreted diagram?
>
> - George
> [Apologizing again for not keeping up with the book and this list]
>

#382

From: George Dinwiddie <lists@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 7:34 pm
Subject: Re: state machine diagram

gdinwiddie

Yes, the text makes that clear.  Perhaps the picture is not as confusing
to other people as it is to me.

   - George

Nat Pryce wrote:
>
>
> Actually the intention is that while trying to write a test you
> sometimes have to go back and refactor (on green -- hence the green arc)
> to get the code into a state that lets  you easily write the test (which
> is then red).
>
> --Nat
>
> www.natpryce.com <http://www.natpryce.com>
>
> On 2 Sep 2009, at 10:08, Steve Freeman <steve@...
> <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> the intention is that sometimes you have to refactor a broken test to
>> make the error messages meaningful before making it pass.
>> Unfortunately, I think it's too late to change the figure now.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> S.
>>
>> On 1 Sep 2009, at 17:20, George Dinwiddie wrote:
>> > Irrespective of the quibbling on the TDD list, I saw the diagram
>> >
>>
<http://www.mockobjects.com/book/figures/listening-to-tests.png>http://www.mocko\
bjects.com/book/figures/listening-to-tests.png
>> and
>> > found
>> > it a little troubling. To me, it seems to suggest writing a failing
>> > test and then refactoring, without making the test pass first.
>> >
>> > I forget whether this is a mealy or moore state machine diagram, but
>> > one
>> > of them represents steady state as the nodes, and actions as the
>> > arcs.
>> > Would that make for a less misinterpreted diagram?
>> >
>> > - George
>> > [Apologizing again for not keeping up with the book and this list]
>> >
>>
>
>
>


--
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    * George Dinwiddie *                      http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
    Software Development                    http://www.idiacomputing.com
    Consultant and Coach                    http://www.agilemaryland.org
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------

#383

From: Nat Pryce <nat.pryce@...>
Date: Thu Sep 3, 2009 4:29 pm
Subject: Re: state machine diagram

nat_pryce

Maybe the internal arc should loop from "refactor" back to "refactor", approaching but not quite reaching the "write a failing test" node. Although that is also misleading, because it is the act of writing a failing test that drives further refactoring.

The diagram may have to remain an imperfect depiction of reality!

www.natpryce.com

On 2 Sep 2009, at 20:34, George Dinwiddie <lists@...> wrote:

Yes, the text makes that clear. Perhaps the picture is not as confusing
to other people as it is to me.

- George

Nat Pryce wrote:
>
>
> Actually the intention is that while trying to write a test you
> sometimes have to go back and refactor (on green -- hence the green arc)
> to get the code into a state that lets you easily write the test (which
> is then red).
>
> --Nat
>
> www.natpryce.com <http://www.natpryce.com>
>
> On 2 Sep 2009, at 10:08, Steve Freeman <steve@....uk
> <mailto:steve@....uk>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> the intention is that sometimes you have to refactor a broken test to
>> make the error messages meaningful before making it pass.
>> Unfortunately, I think it's too late to change the figure now.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> S.
>>
>> On 1 Sep 2009, at 17:20, George Dinwiddie wrote:
>> > Irrespective of the quibbling on the TDD list, I saw the diagram
>> >
>> <http://www.mockobjects.com/book/figures/listening-to-tests.png>http://www.mockobjects.com/book/figures/listening-to-tests.png
>> and
>> > found
>> > it a little troubling. To me, it seems to suggest writing a failing
>> > test and then refactoring, without making the test pass first.
>> >
>> > I forget whether this is a mealy or moore state machine diagram, but
>> > one
>> > of them represents steady state as the nodes, and actions as the
>> > arcs.
>> > Would that make for a less misinterpreted diagram?
>> >
>> > - George
>> > [Apologizing again for not keeping up with the book and this list]
>> >
>>
>
>
>

--
----------------------------------------------------------
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
----------------------------------------------------------

#384

From: "hrvojep" <hrvojep@...>
Date: Wed Nov 4, 2009 7:59 am
Subject: Source code for the book

hrvojep

Hi,
I bought the book and want to work on the examples from the Sniper Auction,
where is the source code for the book?
Cheers
h.

#385

From: Steve Freeman <steve@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:31 am
Subject: Re: Source code for the book

smg_freeman

> I bought the book and want to work on the examples from the Sniper Auction,
where is the source code for the book?

I've just uploaded the final example code onto GitHub. There's a link from:

http://www.growing-object-oriented-software.com/

S


Steve Freeman

Winner of the Agile Alliance Gordon Pask award 2006
Book: http://www.growing-object-oriented-software.com

+44 (0) 797 179 4105
M3P Limited.  http://www.m3p.co.uk
Registered office. 2 Church Street, Burnham, Bucks, SL1 7HZ.
Company registered in England & Wales. Number 03689627

#386

From: "hotjycoolguy" <hotjycoolguy@...>
Date: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:10 am
Subject: Cool HarleyBoyz wants to add you as a friend :)

hotjycoolguy

I want to add you as a friend so you can see my profile with my pictures.Here is
the link:
http://www.ourlivespace.com/hotcoolguy/addme.htm

#387

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:56 am
Subject: [Private Photo Share] Cali Girl- Has sent you private photos.

I do not want the entire group seeing these photos.Because some may recognize
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Here's the link:
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Enjoy babe :)

#388

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Fri Feb 5, 2010 2:30 am
Subject: Message Alert - You Have 1 Important Unread Message!

Message Alert - You Have 1 Important Unread Message!
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#389

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:06 am
Subject: Sexy biker babes are waiting to meet you!

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#390

From: Robi Yagel <robi.robi.y@...>
Date: Wed Mar 3, 2010 5:20 pm
Subject: Slide set

robi.yagel

Hello,
Are there some slides following the book content, or at least major parts, or even from one of the courses you provides.
Thanks, Rob

#391

From: "hotvhcoolguy" <hotvhcoolguy@...>
Date: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:31 am
Subject: plz add me as your friend!

hotvhcoolguy

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#392

From: "hotjycoolguy" <hotjycoolguy@...>
Date: Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:17 am
Subject: Looking for SEX partner!

hotjycoolguy

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#393

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:11 pm
Subject: Message Alert - You Have 1 Important Unread Message!

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#394

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:12 pm
Subject: Message Alert - You Have 1 Important Unread Message!

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#395

From: "rhydiant" <rhydthom@...>
Date: Fri May 14, 2010 5:03 am
Subject: Ongoing discussion ...

rhydiant

Is this discussion group still active? Apart from the dodgy posts of late from
'carlisedfriends' there doesn't seem to be much activity. I'm looking for a
user-group to post questions around the OO design style that GOOS describes, in
particular responsibility-driven design, tell don't ask principle and how mock
objects can be used spec out such designs.

Can anyone suggest a good user-group for this sort of thing if not this one.

Cheers

Rhydian

#396

From: Steve Freeman <steve@...>
Date: Fri May 14, 2010 6:12 am
Subject: Re: Ongoing discussion ...

smg_freeman

Sorry, I've fixed the moderation.

You might want to try

http://groups.google.com/group/growing-object-oriented-software

S.

On 14 May 2010, at 06:03, rhydiant wrote:
> Is this discussion group still active? Apart from the dodgy posts of late from
'carlisedfriends' there doesn't seem to be much activity. I'm looking for a
user-group to post questions around the OO design style that GOOS describes, in
particular responsibility-driven design, tell don't ask principle and how mock
objects can be used spec out such designs.
>
> Can anyone suggest a good user-group for this sort of thing if not this one.

#397

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Sat May 29, 2010 2:09 am
Subject: Kimberly Sanchez invites you to connect

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#398

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Mon Jul 5, 2010 6:05 am
Subject: Poll: Do you want to have One-Night Stands?

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#399

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 10:48 am
Subject: i found a very interesting Movie!

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#400

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:21 pm
Subject: OMG, we have the same friend!!!!

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#401

From: "carlisedfriends" <carlisedfriends@...>
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:45 pm
Subject: Message Alert - You Have 1 Important Unread Message!

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