Check:

http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/519/

One distinguished member of this list contributed some feedback to the
original draft, and made me change my strategy a bit.

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

Check:

http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html

Several people have sent me corrections for my previous attempt at
translating one of Joel's articles. However, some of them were not
adequate. What I'd like to have is either:

1. An HTML file containing the corrected text with the corrections marked
in red (or in underline or whatever).

2. An English message with the corrections referenced in ta'atik.

The reason is that I have problems reading messages containing Hebrew, and
that it's hard for me to diff two Hebrew HTMLs, because they may be in a
different encoding, an MS-Word generated HTML, etc. I write the text in
Mozilla Composer.

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

On Sat, Aug 10, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Joel Spolsky's "Five
Worlds" in Hebrew":
> Several people have sent me corrections for my previous attempt at
> translating one of Joel's articles. However, some of them were not
> adequate. What I'd like to have is either:

There's a saying (in the world of Unix software, internet protocols, and
so on) that goes: "Be conservative in what you send, but be liberal in what
you accept."

What this saying means is unless you're prepared to miss out on the
(assumingly) useful advice people are sending you, you should be liberal
in what you accept, and consider people's advice regardless of whether they
in Hebrew, translitterated into English, HTML marked in red, patches, or
whatever.

> The reason is that I have problems reading messages containing Hebrew, and
> different encoding, an MS-Word generated HTML, etc. I write the text in
> Mozilla Composer.

Can't you load someone's mail into the Mozilla Composer (or even the browser)
to view it properly?
Last time I checked, Mozilla showed email with Hebrew without even you
needing to set it up.

And there are 101 other ways to read Hebrew emails of various sorts. You
might want to ask about this in ivrix-discuss or linux-il.

--
Nadav Har'El                        |       Saturday, Aug 10 2002, 2 Elul 5762
nyh@...             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cat rule #2: Bite the hand that won't
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |feed you fast enough.

On Sat, Aug 10, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] A Freshmeat
Editorial I wrote":
> http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/519/

So now Shlomi also has a funny biography ;)

Quoting the above page:

    "Shlomi Fish once defined himself as a "Programmer, Writer, Amateur
     Mathematician, Wannabe Philosopher, and someone who studies in the
     Technion in the vain hope of becoming an Electrical Engineer". He does
     not consider himself a sane person, but is quite certain that only makes
     him more interesting."

--
Nadav Har'El                        |       Saturday, Aug 10 2002, 2 Elul 5762
nyh@...             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I am the world's greatest authority on my
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |own opinion.

On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 10, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] A Freshmeat
Editorial I wrote":
> > http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/519/
>
> So now Shlomi also has a funny biography ;)
>
> Quoting the above page:
>
>    "Shlomi Fish once defined himself as a "Programmer, Writer, Amateur
>     Mathematician, Wannabe Philosopher, and someone who studies in the
>     Technion in the vain hope of becoming an Electrical Engineer". He does
>     not consider himself a sane person, but is quite certain that only makes
>     him more interesting."
>

That's not really a biography but rather a summary of what I am. I can
come up with something more similar to what Pike and RMS wrote, if you
give me enough time.

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish



> --
> Nadav Har'El                        |       Saturday, Aug 10 2002, 2 Elul 5762
> nyh@...             |-----------------------------------------
> Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I am the world's greatest authority on my
> http://nadav.harel.org.il           |own opinion.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 10, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Joel Spolsky's
"Five Worlds" in Hebrew":
> > Several people have sent me corrections for my previous attempt at
> > translating one of Joel's articles. However, some of them were not
> > adequate. What I'd like to have is either:
>
> There's a saying (in the world of Unix software, internet protocols, and
> so on) that goes: "Be conservative in what you send, but be liberal in what
> you accept."
>
> What this saying means is unless you're prepared to miss out on the
> (assumingly) useful advice people are sending you, you should be liberal
> in what you accept, and consider people's advice regardless of whether they
> in Hebrew, translitterated into English, HTML marked in red, patches, or
> whatever.
>

Easier said than done. In reality, I have to deal with conflicting
standards, several ways to achieve the same effect, and having too little
time. Sending the corrected HTML would be fine if I had a way to compare
two such HTML documents. You do agree that going over both texts will only
confuse me.

And my mailer cannot handle Hebrew well. I honestly tried reading Arik's
letter in several ways, but so far was not successful. I use pine as a
mailer, and I don't have access to heb-pine, and I'm not going to use an
X-Windows based mailer, because I happen to ping-pong between two
computers.

I could simply send the article away to Spolsky, and he'll give it for
someone to copy edit. :-) So I need to be a little picky here. I don't
think my demands cannot be met at all.

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish

> > The reason is that I have problems reading messages containing Hebrew, and
> > different encoding, an MS-Word generated HTML, etc. I write the text in
> > Mozilla Composer.
>
> Can't you load someone's mail into the Mozilla Composer (or even the browser)
> to view it properly?

I tried it with Konqueror. Maybe it would work with Mozilla.

> Last time I checked, Mozilla showed email with Hebrew without even you
> needing to set it up.
>
> And there are 101 other ways to read Hebrew emails of various sorts. You
> might want to ask about this in ivrix-discuss or linux-il.
>

These ways all have to work within the limit of my 15 MB t2 quota (part of
it is reserved for my homepage) and of the generousity of its sys admins
(or lack of it).

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish

> --
> Nadav Har'El                        |       Saturday, Aug 10 2002, 2 Elul 5762
> nyh@...             |-----------------------------------------
> Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cat rule #2: Bite the hand that won't
> http://nadav.harel.org.il           |feed you fast enough.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote:

> And my mailer cannot handle Hebrew well. I honestly tried reading Arik's
> letter in several ways, but so far was not successful. I use pine as a
> mailer, and I don't have access to heb-pine, and I'm not going to use an
> X-Windows based mailer, because I happen to ping-pong between two
> computers.

No need for heb-pine. On what computer you read this, and from which
terminal?

But as Nadav said, this is not the list fir such discussions. Contact me
privately, or move this to linux-il/ivrix-discuss .

--
Tzafrir Cohen
mailto:tzafrir@...
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir

On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

> No need for heb-pine. On what computer you read this, and from which
> terminal?
>
> But as Nadav said, this is not the list fir such discussions. Contact me
> privately, or move this to linux-il/ivrix-discuss .

   In case all else fails, I use this script to convert hebrew characters to
a readable encoding:

#!/bin/tcsh -f
tr \\340-\\373 abgdhwzx\@ikklmmnns\&ppccqr\$t

   Alon

--
This message was sent by Alon Altman (alon@...) ICQ:1366540
The RIGHT way to contact me is by e-mail. I am otherwise nonexistent :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  -=[ Random Fortune ]=-
Biology is the only science in which multiplication means the same thing
as division.

On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Alon Altman wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
>
> > No need for heb-pine. On what computer you read this, and from which
> > terminal?
> >
> > But as Nadav said, this is not the list fir such discussions. Contact me
> > privately, or move this to linux-il/ivrix-discuss .
>
> In case all else fails, I use this script to convert hebrew characters to
> a readable encoding:
>
> #!/bin/tcsh -f
> tr \\340-\\373 abgdhwzx\@ikklmmnns\&ppccqr\$t

You seem to have a strange definition of readable. Something like "can be
understood by a human in polynomial time"? ;-)

--
Tzafrir Cohen
mailto:tzafrir@...
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir

I realize that that's what Joel wrote, but it's not a valid Hebrew expression.

You have to realize that you cannot translate word-for-word. You have to take
into account the language and the culture you're translating into.

The expression 'A ate B's lunch' MEANS 'A has enjoyed the fruits of B's
efforts'. A suitable hebrew expression would be "GANAV ET HA'BECHORA" or maybe
"HOTZI ET HA'ARMONIM ME'HA'ESH", not "GANAV ET ARUHAT HA'TZOHORAIM". It's just
not a valid Hevrew expression. It's not part of the language.

-- Arik


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 10:43 AM
> To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [hackers-il] Re: Joel Spolsky's "Things you must
> never do - Part I" in Hebrew
>
>
> On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Arik Baratz wrote:
>
> > Instead of translating 'stole their lunch' to גנב את ארוחת ה
> צהריים it is
> > better to use a Hebrew expression, like גנב את הבכורה.
> >
>
> Hi Arik!
>
> I tried several ways to view this Hebrew part and was not
> successful. Can
> you write an HTML file with it or write it in English letters.
>
> BTW, Joel said "ate their lunch".
>
> Regards,
>
>  Shlomi Fish
>
> > -- Arik
> >
> > Shlomi Fish wrote:
> > >
> > > Joel Spolsky is now pulling an effort to translate his
> site into other
> > > languages. To help with this good cause, I translated
> "Things you must
> > > never do - Part I" into Hebrew. This is the article in
> which he claims
> > > that re-writing entire codebases from scratch is usually
> a Bad Idea.
> > >
> > > Check:
> > >
> > > http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/things.html
> > >
> > > and the original article in English can be found here:
> > >
> > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
> > >
> > > I sent the translation to Joel, but have not received a reply yet.
> > > Technical comments about the translation are welcome. And
> this probably
> > > would erupt a flame-war.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >         Shlomi Fish
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> > >
> > > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
>
> "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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>
>
>
**********************************************************************
This email and attachments have been scanned for recognized contextual
characteristics by PortAuthority Server to SafeGuard privileged or sensitive
information. Vidius, Inc. We value information.

On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Arik Baratz wrote:

>
> I realize that that's what Joel wrote, but it's not a valid Hebrew expression.
>
> You have to realize that you cannot translate word-for-word. You have to
> take into account the language and the culture you're translating into.
>

I know that of course.

> The expression 'A ate B's lunch' MEANS 'A has enjoyed the fruits of B's
> efforts'. A suitable hebrew expression would be "GANAV ET HA'BECHORA" or
> maybe "HOTZI ET HA'ARMONIM ME'HA'ESH", not "GANAV ET ARUHAT
> HA'TZOHORAIM". It's just not a valid Hevrew expression. It's not part of
> the language.
>

Thanks, I'll correct that. I just could not think of the corresponding
Hebrew expression so opted for something literal.

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish

> -- Arik
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 10:43 AM
> > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [hackers-il] Re: Joel Spolsky's "Things you must
> > never do - Part I" in Hebrew
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Arik Baratz wrote:
> >
> > > Instead of translating 'stole their lunch' to גנב את ארוחת ה
> > צהריים it is
> > > better to use a Hebrew expression, like גנב את הבכורה.
> > >
> >
> > Hi Arik!
> >
> > I tried several ways to view this Hebrew part and was not
> > successful. Can
> > you write an HTML file with it or write it in English letters.
> >
> > BTW, Joel said "ate their lunch".
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >  Shlomi Fish
> >
> > > -- Arik
> > >
> > > Shlomi Fish wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Joel Spolsky is now pulling an effort to translate his
> > site into other
> > > > languages. To help with this good cause, I translated
> > "Things you must
> > > > never do - Part I" into Hebrew. This is the article in
> > which he claims
> > > > that re-writing entire codebases from scratch is usually
> > a Bad Idea.
> > > >
> > > > Check:
> > > >
> > > > http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/things.html
> > > >
> > > > and the original article in English can be found here:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
> > > >
> > > > I sent the translation to Joel, but have not received a reply yet.
> > > > Technical comments about the translation are welcome. And
> > this probably
> > > > would erupt a flame-war.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >         Shlomi Fish
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > > > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > > > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> > > >
> > > > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > > > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> >
> > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> **********************************************************************
> This email and attachments have been scanned for recognized contextual
characteristics by PortAuthority Server to SafeGuard privileged or sensitive
information. Vidius, Inc. We value information.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

Same place, corrected text thanks to a diligent reviewer.

The English article was littered with second person addresses. ("you will"
"you have", etc.) I translated them literally at first, but now modified
them to something better sounding.

The usual place:

http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

My two cents:

You don't say "Hazkara" (except when someone dies), the word you are after
is "Iz-kur". (I hate transliterations, but I can't type hebrew at work).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:57 PM
> To: Hackers-IL
> Subject: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel Spolsky's "Five
> Worlds" in Hebrew]
>
>
>
> Same place, corrected text thanks to a diligent reviewer.
>
> The English article was littered with second person
> addresses. ("you will"
> "you have", etc.) I translated them literally at first, but
> now modified
> them to something better sounding.
>
> The usual place:
>
> http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html
>
> Regards,
>
>  Shlomi Fish
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
>
> "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/saFolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Chen Shapira wrote:

> My two cents:
>
> You don't say "Hazkara" (except when someone dies), the word you are after
> is "Iz-kur". (I hate transliterations, but I can't type hebrew at work).
>

OK. I thought "Azkara" (with an Aleph) is when somebody dies and "Hazkara"
is "mention" in English.

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:57 PM
> > To: Hackers-IL
> > Subject: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel Spolsky's "Five
> > Worlds" in Hebrew]
> >
> >
> >
> > Same place, corrected text thanks to a diligent reviewer.
> >
> > The English article was littered with second person
> > addresses. ("you will"
> > "you have", etc.) I translated them literally at first, but
> > now modified
> > them to something better sounding.
> >
> > The usual place:
> >
> > http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >  Shlomi Fish
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> >
> > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/saFolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

The thing is you tend to PREFER the literal translation over trying to get the
meaning across. I've seen your "5 worlds" translation and it has the same
problem.

Try to do the 'What would the person who have never read the original document
think', especially when you translate a pun or an expression. Forget your
English for a second and try to read what you wrote, see if it makes sense.

-- Arik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:48 PM
> To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [hackers-il] RE: Re: Joel Spolsky's "Things you must
> never do - Part I" in Hebrew
>
>
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Arik Baratz wrote:
>
> >
> > I realize that that's what Joel wrote, but it's not a valid
> Hebrew expression.
> >
> > You have to realize that you cannot translate
> word-for-word. You have to
> > take into account the language and the culture you're
> translating into.
> >
>
> I know that of course.
>
> > The expression 'A ate B's lunch' MEANS 'A has enjoyed the
> fruits of B's
> > efforts'. A suitable hebrew expression would be "GANAV ET
> HA'BECHORA" or
> > maybe "HOTZI ET HA'ARMONIM ME'HA'ESH", not "GANAV ET ARUHAT
> > HA'TZOHORAIM". It's just not a valid Hevrew expression.
> It's not part of
> > the language.
> >
>
> Thanks, I'll correct that. I just could not think of the corresponding
> Hebrew expression so opted for something literal.
>
> Regards,
>
>  Shlomi Fish
>
> > -- Arik
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 10:43 AM
> > > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [hackers-il] Re: Joel Spolsky's "Things you must
> > > never do - Part I" in Hebrew
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Arik Baratz wrote:
> > >
> > > > Instead of translating 'stole their lunch' to גנב את ארוחת ה
> > > צהריים it is
> > > > better to use a Hebrew expression, like גנב את הבכורה.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Arik!
> > >
> > > I tried several ways to view this Hebrew part and was not
> > > successful. Can
> > > you write an HTML file with it or write it in English letters.
> > >
> > > BTW, Joel said "ate their lunch".
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >  Shlomi Fish
> > >
> > > > -- Arik
> > > >
> > > > Shlomi Fish wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Joel Spolsky is now pulling an effort to translate his
> > > site into other
> > > > > languages. To help with this good cause, I translated
> > > "Things you must
> > > > > never do - Part I" into Hebrew. This is the article in
> > > which he claims
> > > > > that re-writing entire codebases from scratch is usually
> > > a Bad Idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/things.html
> > > > >
> > > > > and the original article in English can be found here:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I sent the translation to Joel, but have not received
> a reply yet.
> > > > > Technical comments about the translation are welcome. And
> > > this probably
> > > > > would erupt a flame-war.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >         Shlomi Fish
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > > > > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > > > > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > > > > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> > >
> > > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> >
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>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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ZO'HI ME'OD BE'A'YA??? (paragraph 3 near the end)

Come on, you can do better.

LE'DA'ATI YESH KAN HAMISHA O'LAMOT etc. --> LEHASHKAFATI, KAYAMIM KAN 5 O'LAMOT.
LIF'AMIM HEM HOFEFIM - ACH B'MIKRIM RABIM LO. HAMESHET HA'OLAMOT HINAM:

Do a search on ORIM. Should be RO'IM.

Americans love the passive form. It doesn't go well in Hebrew. There are a few
instances. Eradicate them.

HA'BAA B'MISPAR ZANIM SHEL PEI'ROT? MA LE'AZAZEL...

Just a few. I believe Oded is doing some work on your document, I hope he sends
it to you soon.

-- Arik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:57 PM
> To: Hackers-IL
> Subject: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel Spolsky's
> "Five Worlds" in Hebrew]
>
>
>
> Same place, corrected text thanks to a diligent reviewer.
>
> The English article was littered with second person
> addresses. ("you will"
> "you have", etc.) I translated them literally at first, but
> now modified
> them to something better sounding.
>
> The usual place:
>
> http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html
>
> Regards,
>
>  Shlomi Fish
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
>
> "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/saFolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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Perhaps you should open a mailing list of translations, or something?
This is getting quite off-topic

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arik Baratz [mailto:arikb@...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:00 PM
> To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel
> Spolsky's "Five
> Worlds" in Hebrew]
>
>
>
> ZO'HI ME'OD BE'A'YA??? (paragraph 3 near the end)
>
> Come on, you can do better.
>
> LE'DA'ATI YESH KAN HAMISHA O'LAMOT etc. --> LEHASHKAFATI,
> KAYAMIM KAN 5 O'LAMOT. LIF'AMIM HEM HOFEFIM - ACH B'MIKRIM
> RABIM LO. HAMESHET HA'OLAMOT HINAM:
>
> Do a search on ORIM. Should be RO'IM.
>
> Americans love the passive form. It doesn't go well in
> Hebrew. There are a few instances. Eradicate them.
>
> HA'BAA B'MISPAR ZANIM SHEL PEI'ROT? MA LE'AZAZEL...
>
> Just a few. I believe Oded is doing some work on your
> document, I hope he sends it to you soon.
>
> -- Arik
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:57 PM
> > To: Hackers-IL
> > Subject: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel Spolsky's
> > "Five Worlds" in Hebrew]
> >
> >
> >
> > Same place, corrected text thanks to a diligent reviewer.
> >
> > The English article was littered with second person
> > addresses. ("you will"
> > "you have", etc.) I translated them literally at first, but
> > now modified
> > them to something better sounding.
> >
> > The usual place:
> >
> > http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >  Shlomi Fish
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> >
> > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/saFolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and attachments have been scanned for recognized
> contextual characteristics by PortAuthority Server to
> SafeGuard privileged or sensitive information. Vidius, Inc.
> We value information.
>
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>
>

On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Arik Baratz wrote:

>
> ZO'HI ME'OD BE'A'YA??? (paragraph 3 near the end)
>
> Come on, you can do better.
>

What's wrong with it? To quote Joel:

"it is very much an issue".

> LE'DA'ATI YESH KAN HAMISHA O'LAMOT etc. --> LEHASHKAFATI, KAYAMIM KAN 5
> O'LAMOT. LIF'AMIM HEM HOFEFIM - ACH B'MIKRIM RABIM LO. HAMESHET
> HA'OLAMOT HINAM:
>
> Do a search on ORIM. Should be RO'IM.
>
> Americans love the passive form. It doesn't go well in Hebrew. There are a few
instances.
> Eradicate them.
>

Passive forms does not go too well, but it cannot hurt...

> HA'BAA B'MISPAR ZANIM SHEL PEI'ROT? MA LE'AZAZEL...
>

Do you have a better suggestion for "garden variety"?

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish

> Just a few. I believe Oded is doing some work on your document, I hope he
sends it to you soon.
>
> -- Arik
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:57 PM
> > To: Hackers-IL
> > Subject: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel Spolsky's
> > "Five Worlds" in Hebrew]
> >
> >
> >
> > Same place, corrected text thanks to a diligent reviewer.
> >
> > The English article was littered with second person
> > addresses. ("you will"
> > "you have", etc.) I translated them literally at first, but
> > now modified
> > them to something better sounding.
> >
> > The usual place:
> >
> > http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >  Shlomi Fish
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> >
> > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/saFolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and attachments have been scanned for recognized contextual
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>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Chen Shapira wrote:

>
> Perhaps you should open a mailing list of translations, or something?
> This is getting quite off-topic
>

Done. Check:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jos-hebrew-trans/

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arik Baratz [mailto:arikb@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:00 PM
> > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel
> > Spolsky's "Five
> > Worlds" in Hebrew]
> >
> >
> >
> > ZO'HI ME'OD BE'A'YA??? (paragraph 3 near the end)
> >
> > Come on, you can do better.
> >
> > LE'DA'ATI YESH KAN HAMISHA O'LAMOT etc. --> LEHASHKAFATI,
> > KAYAMIM KAN 5 O'LAMOT. LIF'AMIM HEM HOFEFIM - ACH B'MIKRIM
> > RABIM LO. HAMESHET HA'OLAMOT HINAM:
> >
> > Do a search on ORIM. Should be RO'IM.
> >
> > Americans love the passive form. It doesn't go well in
> > Hebrew. There are a few instances. Eradicate them.
> >
> > HA'BAA B'MISPAR ZANIM SHEL PEI'ROT? MA LE'AZAZEL...
> >
> > Just a few. I believe Oded is doing some work on your
> > document, I hope he sends it to you soon.
> >
> > -- Arik
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:57 PM
> > > To: Hackers-IL
> > > Subject: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel Spolsky's
> > > "Five Worlds" in Hebrew]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Same place, corrected text thanks to a diligent reviewer.
> > >
> > > The English article was littered with second person
> > > addresses. ("you will"
> > > "you have", etc.) I translated them literally at first, but
> > > now modified
> > > them to something better sounding.
> > >
> > > The usual place:
> > >
> > > http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >  Shlomi Fish
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> > >
> > > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ---------------------~-->
> > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/saFolB/TM
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -------~->
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > **********************************************************************
> > This email and attachments have been scanned for recognized
> > contextual characteristics by PortAuthority Server to
> > SafeGuard privileged or sensitive information. Vidius, Inc.
> > We value information.
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> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

I don't think that a discussion with 3 participants needs its own yahoogroup.
I'm taking it to private email.

An added bonus is not having to read the Yahoo! footer.

-- Arik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 3:17 PM
> To: 'hackers-il@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: [hackers-il] Separate Mailing List [was RE: Second
> Revision [was Re: Joel Spolsky's"Five Wo rlds" in Hebrew] ]
>
>
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Chen Shapira wrote:
>
> >
> > Perhaps you should open a mailing list of translations, or
> something?
> > This is getting quite off-topic
> >
>
> Done. Check:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jos-hebrew-trans/
>
> Regards,
>
>  Shlomi Fish
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Arik Baratz [mailto:arikb@...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:00 PM
> > > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel
> > > Spolsky's "Five
> > > Worlds" in Hebrew]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ZO'HI ME'OD BE'A'YA??? (paragraph 3 near the end)
> > >
> > > Come on, you can do better.
> > >
> > > LE'DA'ATI YESH KAN HAMISHA O'LAMOT etc. --> LEHASHKAFATI,
> > > KAYAMIM KAN 5 O'LAMOT. LIF'AMIM HEM HOFEFIM - ACH B'MIKRIM
> > > RABIM LO. HAMESHET HA'OLAMOT HINAM:
> > >
> > > Do a search on ORIM. Should be RO'IM.
> > >
> > > Americans love the passive form. It doesn't go well in
> > > Hebrew. There are a few instances. Eradicate them.
> > >
> > > HA'BAA B'MISPAR ZANIM SHEL PEI'ROT? MA LE'AZAZEL...
> > >
> > > Just a few. I believe Oded is doing some work on your
> > > document, I hope he sends it to you soon.
> > >
> > > -- Arik
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:57 PM
> > > > To: Hackers-IL
> > > > Subject: [hackers-il] Second Revision [was Re: Joel Spolsky's
> > > > "Five Worlds" in Hebrew]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Same place, corrected text thanks to a diligent reviewer.
> > > >
> > > > The English article was littered with second person
> > > > addresses. ("you will"
> > > > "you have", etc.) I translated them literally at first, but
> > > > now modified
> > > > them to something better sounding.
> > > >
> > > > The usual place:
> > > >
> > > > http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >  Shlomi Fish
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
> > > > Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > > > Home E-mail:       shlomif@...
> > > >
> > > > "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> > > > "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > ---------------------~-->
> > > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/saFolB/TM
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -------~->
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> **********************************************************************
> > > This email and attachments have been scanned for recognized
> > > contextual characteristics by PortAuthority Server to
> > > SafeGuard privileged or sensitive information. Vidius, Inc.
> > > We value information.
> > >
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> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/saFolB/TM
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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I think the subject of this tidbit

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/26627.html

was touched upon here (or was it LINUX-IL? Never mind). Many of us
have those IP clauses in our employment contracts. I recall one that
said the employer owned "everything conceived" by the employee, and
the lawyers failed to laugh when kids were mentioned.

Now a typical situation (in my experience) is that when you question
the clause formulation during contract negotiations you hear that it
is not important and not enforceable. Apparently a judge in a faraway
land thought differently.

You've been warned ;-)

--
Oleg Goldshmidt | ogoldshmidt@...
=================================================================
"... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied
the greater intellectual challenge." [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.]

It seems that some people use all small caps for their E-mails while
others use properly large caps. I personally know of someone who used to
use small caps and later switched to proper caps.

I remember I once saw my friend use all large caps in an E-mail he wrote.
I told him using large caps was bad netiquette and was considered
shouting. So he switched from large caps to small caps. (somewhat like
from the fire to the firing pan if you ask me).

I once talked with an old friend from high school who also studies in the
Technion. He used small caps with lots of typos and abbreviations.
Eventually I told him that I could not read what he wrote and that he
should write more formally. He switched, but had a lot of typos, and
eventually reverted.

I use proper caps because I believe that writing E-mails deserves the same
attention and mental effort as writing any other formal letters. That and
I'm used to using the shift key.

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

The jargon file has something in it that says that some hackers write in
small
caps because they programmed "too much". :-)

Nice thought.

> It seems that some people use all small caps for their E-mails while
> others use properly large caps. I personally know of someone who used to
> use small caps and later switched to proper caps.
>
> I remember I once saw my friend use all large caps in an E-mail he wrote.
> I told him using large caps was bad netiquette and was considered
> shouting. So he switched from large caps to small caps. (somewhat like
> from the fire to the firing pan if you ask me).
>
> I once talked with an old friend from high school who also studies in the
> Technion. He used small caps with lots of typos and abbreviations.
> Eventually I told him that I could not read what he wrote and that he
> should write more formally. He switched, but had a lot of typos, and
> eventually reverted.
>
> I use proper caps because I believe that writing E-mails deserves the same
> attention and mental effort as writing any other formal letters. That and
> I'm used to using the shift key.

On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:

> I think the subject of this tidbit
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/26627.html
>
> was touched upon here (or was it LINUX-IL? Never mind). Many of us
> have those IP clauses in our employment contracts. I recall one that
> said the employer owned "everything conceived" by the employee, and
> the lawyers failed to laugh when kids were mentioned.

this wasn't discussed on the mailing list, according to my memory. what
was discussed, was the non-competetion clause, preventing one from working
in the field, or for the competetion, for X years after you quit your
current job. its not entirely the same.

> Now a typical situation (in my experience) is that when you question
> the clause formulation during contract negotiations you hear that it
> is not important and not enforceable. Apparently a judge in a faraway
> land thought differently.

note that this is the USA's laws, which are different from the israeli
laws - so making a 1-1 translation won't necessarily work.

in any event, this implies one should put various restrictions on that
clause, when signing the contract. to generalize - one should fully read
all their contract, mark down what they cannot live with, and insist on
getting that changed, and then checking that they can live with the
change. if not - repeat.

--
guy

"For world domination - press 1,
  or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy

You can find it here:

http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ui_design-2-heb.html

There's also:

http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/five-worlds-heb.html (five worlds
third or fourth revision)

and

http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/things.html (things you must never do)

If you wish to send corrections, send them as either HTML with coloured
marking or transliterated into English. The HTML need not be valid because
I am working on my own copy and incorporate the changes manually. It just
have to look OK.

Please keep the discussion off the list.

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:

> It seems that some people use all small caps for their E-mails

You can't use small caps in ascii emails. Small caps is a font. E.g.
same the following LaTeX snippet in sc.tex, then do

$ latex sc
$ dvips -o sc.ps sc
$ gv sc.ps

to see what it looks like.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

This is normal capitalization.

THIS IS SHOUTING.

{\sc This is small caps.}

\end{document}

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

--
Oleg Goldshmidt | ogoldshmidt@...
=================================================================
"... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied
the greater intellectual challenge." [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.]

On 13 Aug 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:

> Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:
>
> > It seems that some people use all small caps for their E-mails
>
> You can't use small caps in ascii emails. Small caps is a font. E.g.
> same the following LaTeX snippet in sc.tex, then do
>

Small Caps is a way of writing in which you write all the letters that
should be capital letters as lowercase. E.g:

<<<
i went to dr. rabinovich and he told me to use linux more often.
>>>

Regards,

	 Shlomi Fish

> $ latex sc
> $ dvips -o sc.ps sc
> $ gv sc.ps
>
> to see what it looks like.
>
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>
> \documentclass{article}
>
> \begin{document}
>
> This is normal capitalization.
>
> THIS IS SHOUTING.
>
> {\sc This is small caps.}
>
> \end{document}
>
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>
> --
> Oleg Goldshmidt | ogoldshmidt@...
> =================================================================
> "... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied
> the greater intellectual challenge." [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

No, they're called lowercase and uppercase.

-- Arik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:25 AM
> To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [hackers-il] Re: Proper Caps versus Small Caps
>
>
> On 13 Aug 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
>
> > Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:
> >
> > > It seems that some people use all small caps for their E-mails
> >
> > You can't use small caps in ascii emails. Small caps is a font. E.g.
> > same the following LaTeX snippet in sc.tex, then do
> >
>
> Small Caps is a way of writing in which you write all the letters that
> should be capital letters as lowercase. E.g:
>
> <<<
> i went to dr. rabinovich and he told me to use linux more often.
> >>>
>
> Regards,
>
>  Shlomi Fish
>
> > $ latex sc
> > $ dvips -o sc.ps sc
> > $ gv sc.ps
> >
> > to see what it looks like.
> >
> > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> >
> > \documentclass{article}
> >
> > \begin{document}
> >
> > This is normal capitalization.
> >
> > THIS IS SHOUTING.
> >
> > {\sc This is small caps.}
> >
> > \end{document}
> >
> > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> >
> > --
> > Oleg Goldshmidt | ogoldshmidt@...
> > =================================================================
> > "... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied
> > the greater intellectual challenge." [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.]
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        shlomif@...
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       shlomif@...

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


**********************************************************************
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On Thu, Aug 15, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Re: Proper Caps
versus Small Caps":
> On 13 Aug 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
>
> > Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:
> >
> > > It seems that some people use all small caps for their E-mails
> >
> > You can't use small caps in ascii emails. Small caps is a font. E.g.
> > same the following LaTeX snippet in sc.tex, then do
> >
>
> Small Caps is a way of writing in which you write all the letters that
> should be capital letters as lowercase. E.g:

No, Shlomi, you got the terms wrong. I wasn't going to correct you, but
now that you're arguing with Oleg about it...

Small Caps is a font where the lowercase letters are smaller capital letters.

If you write all your sentense in captial letters (uppercase), or all in
lowercase letters, you can call it all-caps (or all-uppercase), or
all-lowercase.

--
Nadav Har'El                        |       Thursday, Aug 15 2002, 7 Elul 5762
nyh@...             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A Nobel Peace Prize? I would KILL for one
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |of those.

If you want a software package to be able to perfectly fit your needs, it
must be Free Software.
The ultimate reason for this is the "curse of the prioritized TODO list".

How does it look like?
Let's switch sides.  Suppose you are a software house, which developed a
popular and useful software package.  Lacking any business model allowing
you to make a profit while letting your customers access and modify your
software's source code, you sell the software as closed source.

Your customers find it useful and pay you the price, and actually use it.
Since they actually use it, they come up with all small ideas for
improving the software so that it'll serve them better.  Some of the ideas
are bug reports (a bug is a problem only if it causes, or may cause,
an actual operational failure).  Other ideas are suggestions for
improving and extending the software package.

What do you do with all those ideas?  You love your customers' money and
goodwill too much to simply redirect all those suggestions to /dev/null.
So those ideas end up in a TODO list in your organization.

Obviously, all the ideas are not equal in utility, profit potential or
effort.  Therefore you prioritize the TODO list.  You and your
subordinates work on the top-priority items.  Ideas, which made it to the
top of the TODO list are acted upon, and make the corresponding customers
very happy.

Now, to the crux of the matter.  What criteria do you use to prioritize
the items in your TODO list?

Given two items, one of which is very important for one small customer,
and another, which will allow you to increase your sales by 100%, but is
not important to any of the existing customers - which one gets higher
priority?

If you had been born to billionaire parents, maybe you would be a nice guy
and take care of the needs of that one small customer, even if you need to
hire 10 more programmers for this.

But if you are a normal business proprietor, who is paying off a mortgage
on his home, saving money for his children's future dwelling needs, and
renegotiating your business' bank loan each three months, the second idea
will get higher priority.  Thus, that one small customer will be very
miserable.

Once the priorities are set by business needs (including strategic
business directions), there may be no relationship between the current
user's needs and the priority of improvement ideas, which are actually
improved.

Thus, Microsoft may decide to implement ideas, which actively burden
customers (for example the Windows XP Activation mechanism) - because they
improve the software house's bottom line.

This is the "curse of the prioritized TODO list".

If, on the other hand, you (as a customer) chose a Free Software solution,
then improvements important for you don't get caught up in the vendor's
prioritized TODO list.  You may implement those improvements on your own
according to your own prioritized TODO list.
                                              --- Omer
There is no IGLU Cabal.  It needed some vendors to implement certain
improvements.  But those improvements were very low in the vendors'
prioritized TODO lists.
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