Kent,

clever :). Yes I understand it, it was only confusing that outside the
book the Java language was not mentioned. But it is focused of
communicating its intent through the language.

I agree with you that these values (communication, simplicity,
flexibility) are the most important ones for this purpose - in this order.

I just would have liked a kind of globally applicable set of values that
cover the realm of software development (but perhaps this would be to
abstract or general). The concrete principles derived for my environment
then guide the choice of practices I use.

Have you come up with a term that describes this trinity in one word?


Thanks,

Michael

On Wed, November 28, 2007 4:30 pm, Kent Beck wrote:
> Michael,
>
>
> My intention was that Implementation Patterns use Java in the same way
> that Design Patterns used C++. The whole value system and most of the
> patterns work directly in other languages. Some are specific to Java. If
> the general approach of communicating through code becomes popular, I can
> imagine writing a series of Implementation Patterns in C#/Ruby/PHP/...
>
> My value system while in the act of coding is more focused than it is
> when developing in general. That's why the values are different. It's not
> that I don't want to be respectful--when pairing it's critically
> important. It's that within the scope of this book, respect isn't as big
> an influence on my decisions as are simplicity, flexibility, and
> communication.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Kent Beck
> Three Rivers Institute
>
>
> _____
>
>
> From: implementationpatterns@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:implementationpatterns@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> Hunger
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:36 PM
> To: implementationpatterns@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [implementationpatterns] Introduction & First notes
>
>
>
>
> Dear Kent & list members,
>
>
> after getting IP last tuesday, reading and rereading it over the last
> couple of days I feel now fit to comment on it. First of all I want to
> thank Kent for sharing his experiences and allowing us to reflect the
> things we do and rethink daily decisions.
>
> I shortly repeat my introduction that I already sent to Kent (sorry for
> that).
>
> I bought the book for several reasons. The first is having the
> opportunity to share the many experiences you made as developer,
> consultant, teacher, writer, speaker and last but not least as Agitar
> fellow. You have written and seen code that keeps to these values and was
> part of successful applications.
>
> I want to reflect the way I'm currently doing things and learn from the
> experience of others. Second I wanted some great material for bringing the
> essence of good implementation practice to my fellow developers. When
> coaching I mostly build on my own knowledge and experience and I'd like
> to have more material to support my approaches. I've been developing Java
> software for 11 years now. It is fascinating which way Java took during
> these years and how many tremendous people contributed to its popularity.
>
>
> While reading the book there were so many things that came to my mind so
> that writing them down produced a quite lengthy review of the book.
>
> Kent invited me to join this list to have a lively discussion about the
> book. I originally wrote the review directed to Kent and I hope you forgive
> me not rewriting the adressing.
>
> If I'm to blunt please excuse it. My wife told me that German and
> American
> culture differ there quite a lot.
>
> Review: Implementation Patterns
>
>
> The first thing I noticed was, that nowhere in the title and on neither
> front nor back-cover the word Java appears. Just in the introduction you
> state that these implementation patterns " are Java programming habits".
>
> If one reads the TOC it becomes obvious that the Java language was the
> language of choice for deriving these concrete implementation patterns.
>
> Perhaps possible subtitles could have been
> * Communicative, Simple and Flexible Java (in memory of Effective Java)
> * Writing Readable/Intelligible Java Code
> * Java Best Practices
>
>
> If I bought the book without being a Java programmer I would be a bit
> disappointed, as there are other OO-languages with different facets that
> could also be used and supported by Implementation Patterns. I also think
> that concentrating on concrete Java helps the applicability but
> abstracting the patterns enough to be easily applicable to other
> languages would have been helpful. Perhaps this is a task for an online
> community.
>
> I don't know where to start. So I start at the beginning and carry
> through to the end of the book. The things I missed are listed at the end
> of the review.
>
> The discussion of values, principles and patterns/practices is well known
> from the XP books. I would like to ask why you excluded: Feedback,
> Courage and
> Respect from the values as these are also conveyed in the implementation
> patterns you describe. Especially respect to the people who use, read,
> modify and extend your code and the courage for removing unnecessary
> flexibility or breaking traditions. The feedback aspect is missing a bit
> as you mainly take the role of the developer who's writing the code and
> not the ones who read, use or change it.
>
> By the way as this trinity of read, use and change together with the
> values appears that often in the book, it would be great if there would be
> a single synonym for that. I already thought about it but got no real
> answer. The closest thing would be: human oriented programming :)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>


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