G'day Andrew, I thought that post would strike a chord - and I must
confess that I just blew a whole day reading every post on "How Many
Miles From Babylon" - time well spent I reckon.

I think you misjudge Lloyd as he was, in part, skewering the unreal
expectations of the sea/tree changers that are flooding this area,
that post was written a few days after I inquired off-line about his
opinion on Foster and surrounding towns post crash (for the record,
we both feel that Foster and Meeniyan have better
prospects/demographics than Wonthaggi where I currently reside)

"I am torn, as we all are, between pointing out the realities of
surviving in this world and standing up for what we truly believe in"

Aye, there's the rub, I'm tied to the machine via my business but see
that as a means to an end.
At 50 years of age with no land or assetts beyond what is in this
shed I'll play Babylons game and build in what resilience I can, if
it gets me my own piece of dirt I'll be a happy man as my needs are
small and I have a strong social network across this district

By the way, here's a brilliant dissertation on things of value
http://milesfrombabylon.blogspot.com/2005/07/beginning-of-wisdom.html

Cheers
Rob

--- In intentionalcommunityvictoria@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Stretton
<andrewpstretton@...> wrote:
>
> Rob,
>
> Sensational post!
>
> It has taken a couple of days of pondering and the post, 'miles
from Babylon' to bring about greater clarity over just why it was
that Lloyd Morcomb's post rattled my cage. There is no doubt great
irony in that fact, and it hasn't been lost on me. Visiting Lloyd's
blog, I noticed that you have an ad for your business on his page,
and so I am torn, as we all are, between pointing out the realities
of surviving in this world and standing up for what we truly believe
in. The 'Babylon' post below clarifies the importance to our future
survival, that of congruently making the choice for the latter,
regardless of the fact that there will not be any guarantees if we do
so. This is something that Kris (my partner) and I struggle with
hourly. Just how do we survive in a world that is doing its best to
keep us within its destructive fold?
>
> Perhaps the only lucid point of Lloyd's post was his last sentence
where he outlined the 'camaraderie' that Humans posses in times of
great difficulty. Hardship and shared responsibility of that hardship
hold within them immense 'potential' for widespread equality. The
converse is also true, and as such there are a great many people who
presently live in the city, and many in the country, who want to, or
have made their move to the regions because they are seeking a safe
haven from what is to come. We met many in regional Oz during our
pushbike tour up the East Coast. They have followed much of what
Lloyd talks about in order to 'secure their future's', incidentally,
a divisive phrase that our politicians use in sickening repetition in
order to create fear and an atmosphere of 'us agin them' (including
Nature), no doubt because it engenders a belief in 'us' about
our 'need' for their (dubious) 'leadership'.
>
> Whilst on the surface, our move may appear to be 'like minded', in
reality, if we base 'our move' on what is really a shallow premise,
we simply end up with self centered communities that do little more
than fight over what is left, either amongst themselves or with other
communities. This then ultimately becomes the classic 'Darwinian
Struggle', a concept that Darwin himself warned against, one that
Peter Kropotkin succinctly argued against in his classic
treatise 'Mutual Aid', and at best, a means that Capitalism
successfully hijacks for its own ends.
>
> This then is the Capitalist 'upside down' world of 'caring'. Why?
Because,
>
> When we are more concerned about being eaten by: 'the mosquitoes,
the leeches', than we are about the importance of their bio-
diversity, we have upside down caring.
>
> When we are more concerned about getting cold and wet because
we : 'Run out of firewood in the middle of a week of solid rain',
than we do about the importance of the Forests and the Rain, we have
upside down caring.
>
> When we are more concerned about being: 'Run off the road by a
logging truck and becoming too traumatised to drive anywhere', than
we are about protesting and stopping the logging of our critically
endangered Forests, we have upside down caring.
>
> When we are more concerned about our inability to: 'dodge wallabies
and wombats in mid-winter on our way to and from work, than we are
about stopping and observing their beauty in wonderment, we have
upside down caring.
>
> When we are more concerned that we only have: 'Two crappy TV
Stations', that limit our knowledge of what's on offer during
the 'Christmas' and every other wasteful 'consumption day' binge,
than we are the damage that those profligate binge's burden the
environment with, then we have upside down caring.
>
> When we are more concerned about making sure that we: 'Don't live
in a place surrounded by tall trees because (we might) spend every
summer terrified by the smell of smoke', instead of celebrating the
importance of those tall trees, their bio-diversity, their organic
matter production and their shade, then we have nothing more than
self-centered upside down caring!
>
> Unfortunately, it takes all of these points to demonstrate what
Neil Douglas said so beautifully:
> 'We deliberately hate the bush, even when we're in the act of
playing tribute to it'.
>
> We 'play' tribute to it through poems and legends and we move to it
because of the romance and the future potential security, but we
actually hate it. So our first priority is to change it, get rid of
all the 'nasties' and create our own little secure and guaranteed
world.
>
> The post below shows us another way if we care to open our eyes to
it. It is perhaps a shame that they don't outline the hardship
connected with that life. That life takes considerable commitment and
persistence, Nature after all is the greatest teacher, but the
rewards do as they suggest, exist in the freedom of choice. After
all, all humans are free to choose, but only if they know enough to
compare.
>
> Regards
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rob Windt <meridian_power@...>
> To: intentionalcommunityvictoria@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, 2 February, 2009 8:37:11 AM
> Subject: [intentionalcommunityvictoria] Choice, the Best Sauce
>
>
> by Eleutheros of http://milesfrombab ylon.blogspot. com/
>
> This is from the comments of the previous post: Question: what
advice
> could/would you give someone who truly has the desire and the will
to
> walk away from Babylon?
>
> I don't know. I don't know your circumstances, proclivity,
resources,
> history, etc. It would be all too easy to suggest something or
begin
> a diatribe that would be completely moot. So I must reduce the
answer
> to the most basic tenet of the freeman's way of things.
>
> The above photo is a view down the cathedral-like corridor formed
by
> the 14' high stalks in one of the patches of corn. On the left side
> and about midway from top to bottom you will see one ear of corn
> still upright and several others behind it drooping over. When the
> corn is completely finished for the season, the stalk begins to
turn
> brown and the ears droop over so that the husks form a raincoat to
> allow the corn to dry in the October sun. Very soon we will begin
> harvesting the corn, allow to to finish drying, then shell it from
> the cobs and put it way for kitchen use.
>
> We actually have enough of this kitchen corn left over from last
year
> to do us for the current year. You never know when there is going
to
> be as bad year, so we will put most of this aside against the
> possibility. During the year the corn will be ground into meal as
> needed to make our staple food, cornbread. A variation of that is
to
> soak the corn in lime water to make masa for tortillas and tamales.
> But the natural food staple of our culture is Appalachian style
> cornbread which along with the dried beans we also grow gives a
> balance of starch, protein, and fat.
>
> These corn patches, this year one for white corn and one for red
> corn, are tucked away on a rather narrow shoulder, maybe 70' wide,
on
> the hillside above the mountain hollow in a place few would deem as
a
> place for agriculture in these modern times. The seed has been
saved
> from crop to crop for many years now. The ground is prepared with a
> horse and a 100 year old plow. The ground is kept fertile by
> application of stable manure and leaf mold. In other words, if we
> padlocked the gate to this farmstead and never had any trafficking
> with Babylon ever again, we could still grow corn and beans in
> perpetuity, worlds without end, amen.
>
> Now many of the people who read this blog, or other writings like
it,
> turn away in horror and disgust and what they perceive as a call to
> recluse oneself in some remote niche of the world and subsist on a
> mirthless bowl of corn meal gruel all of one's days. Said people
miss
> the point entirely.
>
> What is this low tech, low input, subsistence economy all about,
what
> does it mean to us? It is much like Jack Sparrow's remark to
> Elizabeth Swann when they were marooned on the island and he told
her
> what the Black Pearl really was, it was freedom. Like that to us
our
> centuries old agriculture represents for us a choice. And having a
> choice is the very essence and foundation of our escape from
Babylon.
>
> So this is my answer to the anonymous commenter, To walk away from
> Babylon, you must have choices. Alas, it is likely you don't even
if
> you most certainly think you do. Babylon, as with any exploitative
> and controlling system, can only exist by limiting and eliminating
> your choices. After all, if you actually have choices, you may in
> fact choose the things that benefit and enhance you and your family
> rather than things that benefit Babylon.
>
> Babylon must eliminate your ability to choose. It does so with the
> help of two effective ploys. First it will offer you false choices
in
> order to distract you from the fact that you have no real choices
at
> all. A desperate maneuver of failed parenting is when a child is
> adamant that he does not want to go somewhere, you say, "We need to
> get ready to go now, do you want to wear the blue shirt or the red
> one?" The hope being that the child will become absorbed in
choosing
> which color shirt to choose and forget for the moment all his
> objections about going in the first place. The Nazis used this
tactic
> to control the Jews they intended to exterminate and it is hardly
> less dishonorable when anyone uses it. Yet this is part and parcel
> the essential operations of Babylon.
>
> For example, people are always asking us what sort of alternate
> electrical energy we are using, because, after all, if you are
going
> to escape from Babylon, you surely don't want to be connected to
the
> grid! It's a false choice to choose, say, solar electric or grid
> electric. If you "escape" being tied down to a monthly electric
bill,
> you are saddled with the expense of a depreciating and
deteriorating
> electric system you own. What is more, the amount of electricity
you
> can feasibly realize with a home solar set up is so small that you
> must curtail your electric use severely if that's all you use. You
> will not, for example be running an electric range, electric hot
> water heater, electric clothes dryer, and electric furnace or heat
> pump on a home solar electric system. So if you are willing to live
> within the limits of the amount of electricity you can generate
with
> such a system, it is such a tiny bit that it is not much expense or
> dependence to get it from the grid to begin with. It's a false
> choice. Our household is set up so that it is not dependent on
> electricity at all. Make no mistake, we enjoy our electricity. We
> like watching DVD's, using the computer, listening to the radio,
> running the electric dehydrator, and the convenience of early
morning
> and late evening activities because of the electric lights. But we
> also are equipped to live without it. Which we have done. Ours is a
> true choice, it is to use electricity or not as is prudent by the
> circumstances. Switching from being dependent on the grid to being
> dependent on the makers of batteries and solar panels is not a true
> choice since either way you are dependent.
>
> The second way in which Babylon enforces its no-choice policy is
when
> there really is a choice you might make, Babylon convinces you that
> you really don't have that choice at all. To be able to raise any
of
> our own food we have to borrow money for land, right! You have to
go
> to college, right? Gotta have wheels, gotta have a credit card,
> right?
>
> Wrong. Those, and many more, are all things Babylon chants over and
> over until the idea that you could do without them entirely is just
> beyond belief.
>
> So I bring up my corn field in way of illustration of what a real
> choice looks like. We produce (and even prepare, grind and bake)
our
> staple bread with no input at all from Babylon. So we always have
the
> choice to eat that instead of what Babylon offers. We also buy
wheat
> in bulk and make wheat bread sometimes, but if (when, as it
happened
> this year) the transportation cost or scarcity of wheat makes the
> price beyond the pale, we can look at it and say, "No, not going
> there, we will just go home and have our cornbread and beans."
> Likewise we sometimes buy food from stands and stores, and on a few
> occasions we eat out. But we always have the choice, and if we need
> to, we can enforce that choice for months on end. We've heard many
a
> Babylonian say, "A person has to eat, so no matter what we've got
to
> get money to buy food, or else use the credit card!" No choice.
>
> Your escape from Babylon begins when you can say, "No, I have a
> choice. Oh, I can dine around Babylon's table if I choose, but if
the
> Babyonian terms and conditions are odious, then I don't have to."
>
> That's what my cornfield means.
>
> It's just an example. Your choices may vary. So let's go back to
the
> beginning. What can you do? Examine the verities and realities of
> your existence and ask yourself plainly and honestly where you are
> devoid of choices. This and this alone tells you exactly where you
> stand. Is it the gas pump and car payment or else you are destitute
> with no way of earning your livelihood? Is it the Mart and
> agribusiness or you starve? Is it the mortgage company and real
> estate agent or you'd have to live under a bridge? Is it the
> University and its degree else no one has the least bit of
> credibility in you? Etc. etc.. Then you are devoid of choices and
this
> defines your thralldom to Babylon. Its policy of eliminating your
> choices has been most effective.
>
> There is another curious aspect of this matter of choice. To the
> untutored it might appear as if it is a continuum, a matter of
> degrees, and so it is all a matter of balance. But it most
certainly
> is not. There is a trigger point, a breaking point, where you are
> free of the stranglehold of Babylon.
>
> I recall a conversation some years ago that was the inspiration for
a
> post on this blog. Like so many who employ the "matter of degrees"
> argument, my disputant insisted that we both alike were dependent
on
> trafficking in Babylon's coin, that ultimately I could not escape
it
> any more than he could. The difference, which he never understood,
> was that the need for it controlled what he did the next morning.
He
> had no choice. He had to put gas in the car on the morrow and go to
> the job or else the disaster of his personal world loomed. I on the
> other hand had a choice of whether I attended to the matter of
> Babylon's money that day, or that week, or even that year for that
> matter. Babylon's hold was broken. Just as I could decide to go
home
> and eat cornbread and beans or else buy something at Babylon's
> markets, I could choose to bestir myself to do Babylon's dance for
a
> few of its coins ... or not. Oh, eventually I would have to pay the
> property tax and and buy some kerosene. But I had weeks or years to
> decide how I'd like to do it. In that time many things change, many
> opportunities arise, and many circumstances come and go. I don't
have
> to do it right now, you can't rush me, you can't dictate to me, you
> can't write the rules for me to follow. It is not a continuum or
> matter of degrees, it is a matter of having to do it right now
under
> someone else's conditions and to someone else's advantage, or
rather
> to do it in my own time, under my conditions, and to my advantage.
> That's what it means to live in a world of real choices. It is what
> it means to live free.
>
> So, my anonymous friend, the thing you must do is provide yourself
> with choices. Look at your situation cold in the eye and tell where
> you have been backed into a choiceless corner. Then see beyond
> Babylon's false choices and blather that you have no choice and
step
> to a place in each instance where you an say to Babylon, "No, not
> this time, I don't have to."
>
> And most of all, don't look at the lives of the really free and see
> us as hulking down on a dark mountainside swilling down a bowl of
> mirthless gruel. No indeed. When we choose to have it, our humble
> fare is a feast unrivaled. It is partaken with a fine and savory
> sauce far beyond anything offered in Babylon's finest. That sauce
is
> choice.
>
> http://milesfrombab ylon.blogspot. com/2008/ 10/choice- best-sauce.
html
>
>
>
>
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