Out of curiosity.... Is anyone out there finding data modeling projects using UML? I realize that it is picking up steam as a application level modeling ...
15
Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Feb 4, 1999 5:09 pm
I do not know of projects using exclusively UML for data modeling. We are using ORM & UML in parallel to define the structure of our data, thanks to Dr....
16
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Feb 4, 1999 5:22 pm
... Interesting. Do you have any sort of set process? Like first you do the ORM model, derive and ER schema, and transform that in to a class diagram? Or is it...
17
dennis_corbo@...
Feb 4, 1999 7:58 pm
Mark - ORM can also be used to capture and document the big picture. See the article by Dr. Halpin entitled "Conceptual Schemas with Abstractions - Making...
18
Drew Georgopulos
DrewG@...
Feb 4, 1999 8:13 pm
How could it be that UML would supplant anything in modeling 'persistence'? If anything, UML's treatment of data modeling seems to me a hole in the barn big ...
19
Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Feb 4, 1999 8:22 pm
We have not established a good process. We are groping for a way to synchronize application and database designs. The ORM was already developed, so our...
20
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Feb 4, 1999 8:22 pm
... I think a lot of people are attracted to it as it is a common technique between app modeling and data modeling. However, from a data standpoint, it isn't...
21
Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Feb 5, 1999 2:55 am
I am finding in reverse-engineered InfoModeler ORM diagrams of a database schema what appears to be a mandatory role constraint dot, except that it is open...
22
Drew Georgopulos
DrewG@...
Feb 5, 1999 6:42 pm
This no doubt due to unfamiliarity and 'still learning', but I felt that using UML to describe the data tier was lacking in the specificity or, maybe just my...
23
Drew Georgopulos
drewg@...
Feb 5, 1999 6:47 pm
I don't have the book handy, so treat this as a stab in the dark, but wasn't the open dot an older or alternative notation for disjunctive mandatory ...
24
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Feb 5, 1999 6:58 pm
... Not quite. I think the symbol you are thinking about is the one for relative closure, which is supposed to be a square, not filled in, and is placed where...
25
Drew Georgopulos
drewg@...
Feb 5, 1999 7:21 pm
Whoops! Right you are Scott! Pretty scary when somebody else knows what you're thinking better than you do! <g> Thanks. drew mail to: drewg@... ...
26
Bill MacLean
bmaclean@...
Feb 5, 1999 9:06 pm
My book is in Chicago, but I think relative closure applies only to unaries. It is reflects the "open world" vs "closed world" assumption. Under the closed...
27
Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Feb 5, 1999 10:44 pm
Well, my fishing trip isn't producing any trout. Thank you all for your efforts. Here is a bit more bait: The mandatory role constraint tool will remove the...
28
Terry Halpin
TerryH@...
Feb 8, 1999 10:02 pm
Alfred It sounds like it might be a minor bug with the drawing part of the interface. Please send Chang a copy of the actual model so he can look at it. Thanks...
29
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Feb 12, 1999 3:18 am
The February issue of the Journal of Conceptual Modeling (JCM) is now online at http://www.inconcept.com/JCM/. In this issue of the JCM, Dr. Terry Halpin gives...
30
logic@...
Feb 16, 1999 8:29 pm
My name is Kelly VanDusen. I have a one-person consulting company called Logic Management in Brockville, Ontario. I've been in the business for nearly 20 years...
31
logic@...
Feb 16, 1999 8:29 pm
Are there any methods/products that handle process modeling as well as ORM handles data modeling? When I start a new project my data architect (me) starts on...
32
Drew Georgopulos
DrewG@...
Feb 16, 1999 10:20 pm
Rose and RUP cover the method, the process, the diagrams, tie scenarios back to objects and in general does everything BUT what ORM does. Personally, I am...
33
Terry Halpin
TerryH@...
Feb 16, 1999 10:20 pm
Hi Kelly Various ORM-based methods have been proposed for process modeling, but none of these has been standardized or refined in the way the data modeling...
34
Drew Georgopulos
DrewG@...
Feb 16, 1999 10:20 pm
To me, that's the major benefit of ORM, there is no taceability issue for analysts, because the user helps you fill in the example data, and there's no...
35
Terry Halpin
TerryH@...
Feb 16, 1999 10:51 pm
Visio Enterprise supports both ORM and UML. It actually supports more of UML than Rose does (e.g. check out Activity Diagrams). UML can't express many ORM...
36
logic@...
Feb 17, 1999 3:23 pm
I've tried combining Visio and InfoModeler but it requires transcribing the objects from IM into UML classes then applying the use cases. Not very efficient...
37
Terry Halpin
TerryH@...
Feb 17, 1999 5:15 pm
Visio Enterprise supports all of UML 1.2, but Visio Professional supports only a small fragment of it. There's a free 60-day test drive of Enterprise available...
38
Anthony Bloesch
AnthonyB@...
Feb 17, 1999 5:52 pm
Just to clarify. Visio currently has no plans to integrate ORM with the core of Visio. We are, of course, interested in providing much deeper support for ORM...
39
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Feb 17, 1999 6:10 pm
Hello Anthony, We list members should feel lucky to have such a distinguished pair (by 'pair' I am of course also referring to Terry) of ORM gurus and Visio ...
40
dennis_corbo@...
Feb 18, 1999 12:45 am
You may want to take a look at IDEF0 (Integration Definition Function Modeling) which is a graphical language and complete method for process engineering.The ...
41
Anthony Bloesch
AnthonyB@...
Feb 18, 1999 12:45 am
By `core', I mean the Visio engine. Visio is architected as a core engine that handles services such as rendering, layout, and communicating events to ...
42
Drew Georgopulos
DrewG@...
Feb 18, 1999 3:28 pm
Steve McConnel in Code Complete talks about a practice called 'Programming in the Problem Domain', chapter 38? I think, which amounts to using the users...
43
Kelly VanDusen
logic@...
Feb 19, 1999 12:41 am
I re-read "Program in the Problem Domain" (Section 32.5) in "Code Complete". McConnell uses abtraction as a programmer's device to reduce complexity. By ...
