I've been rereading some of these old messages and thinking about them again. Drew has promoted Code Complete and I, out of curiosity, went to see what the...
48
Kelly VanDusen
logic@...
Mar 25, 1999 10:16 pm
I think that McConell and Zachman are talking about two very different things. McConnell is suggesting a programming technique that will make code more or less...
49
Tyrone Kelley
tkelley@...
Mar 26, 1999 3:03 pm
Such a language / environment already exists. It's known as "001" and is from Hamilton Technologies, Inc. More info. available online at HTI's site at...
50
Drew Georgopulos
drewg@...
Mar 26, 1999 4:28 pm
Wow! What a great level of discourse! I must steal some billable time for my 2 cents <g>. First I have to agree with Mark, that Zachman and McConnel *are*...
51
Tyrone Kelley
tkelley@...
Mar 29, 1999 5:05 pm
It's been done. Forget XLM+DCOM+anything else. "001" is the way to go. No need to get a rudimentary design and then move to a product like Rose; 001 is one...
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Kelly VanDusen
logic@...
Mar 31, 1999 4:24 am
... 001 is based on Margret Hamilton's Development Before the Fact™ paradigm. It has an interesting concept - produce error-free designs and you produce ...
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Tyrone Kelley
tkelley@...
Mar 31, 1999 3:36 pm
FYI: Margaret Hamilton has a brand new book coming out from McGraw Hill. In other press, author Jessica Keyes described the potential of 001 and DBTF in a...
54
dennis_corbo@...
Apr 1, 1999 4:05 pm
Tyrone - What does the 001 language look like? Is it similar to ORM? How can ORM be integrated or play a part in an 001 modelling effort? Is there any free...
55
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Apr 8, 1999 4:34 pm
The April Issue of the Journal of Conceptual Modeling (JCM) is now online at http://www.inconcept.com/JCM/. The JCM is a completely free resource dedicated to...
56
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Apr 10, 1999 6:29 pm
Hi All, In previous articles, I have discussed the technical merits of using the ORM approach. I am thinking about another article, taking another approach. In...
57
roy.wilsker@...
Apr 11, 1999 3:36 pm
I've been looking at ORM for a while now and at least one reason why ORM isn't more popular is perfectly clear: No one has created a set of tools (leveled...
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John Hanna
jh@...
Apr 11, 1999 3:47 pm
In the April JCM article section comparing UML and ORM modeling of aggregation, Dr. Halpin indicates that "ORM, as well as many versions of ER, includes no...
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Patrick Hallock
path@...
Apr 11, 1999 8:52 pm
Roy, Being one of the people who teachs ORM, (as do all people here at ICM) I understand you issue. I will put together such an article with help of my...
60
John Hanna
jh@...
Apr 12, 1999 4:29 pm
... the ORM ... In ... They ... supports it ... "tried ... to be ... the ... The reasons listed seem to have a bias that "ORM is perfect, and people just don't...
61
Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Apr 12, 1999 5:03 pm
Scott, First, thank you for JCM. I read it regularly, and recommend it to my associates. I know that some of them also read it. In response to your query: I...
62
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Apr 12, 1999 5:20 pm
Hi John, Thanks for the response! ... It is, isn't it? <s> ... OK, fair enough. Any ideas as to what these might be? ... Hmmm.... aside from controlled...
63
Cuyler, David S
dscuyle@...
Apr 12, 1999 5:24 pm
I think John has a good point here. In fact, the "ORM religion" perspective is a large part of the reason why ORM-based analysis is often rejected at our...
64
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Apr 12, 1999 5:39 pm
Hi Dave, Thanks for the response! ... Absolutely. In fact, after the initial modeling is done, I primarily use ER/physical diagrams because I forget column...
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Terry Halpin
TerryH@...
Apr 12, 1999 8:08 pm
I agree with most of what John and David have to say here. Personally, I find ORM far superior for conceptual data modeling, where the modeler communicates...
66
Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Apr 13, 1999 2:01 am
My instinctive response to John's interrogation is that the role labels are part of the notation. However, on further consideration, I am aware of some eighty...
67
John Hanna
jh@...
Apr 13, 1999 2:34 pm
On Monday, April 12, 1999 at 22:0 Mark Allred said ... This raises an interesting point. When I asked - "Shouldn't the ORM role terms (e.g. for aggregation) be...
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Terry Halpin
TerryH@...
Apr 13, 1999 6:41 pm
If I read John's comments correctly, he's suggesting that an organization might promote an internal terminology standard for treating certain predicate names...
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Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Apr 13, 1999 6:41 pm
Roy is right. I have spent a lot of time trying to get people to understand how to read and identify with the notation. When they look at it, it seems too...
70
Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Apr 14, 1999 1:16 am
Hi, all~ Here's a little challenge for your thinking caps. I want to reopen the discussion of the Zachman framework as representing either a refinement or a...
71
dennis_corbo@...
Apr 14, 1999 11:49 pm
John - Appropriate naming is important, but, I also think that constraints may play a role for certain types of aggregation. In fact, you can use ORM...
72
Cuyler, David S
dscuyle@...
Apr 16, 1999 3:10 am
It seems to me that with ORM we at least get significant indicators of aggregation without special constraints or standardized predicate phrasing. In a typical...
73
Scot A. Becker
scotb@...
Apr 16, 1999 3:15 pm
Is anyone interested in holding scheduled internet chat sessions? It would be an interesting way to discuss JCM related topics, answer questions, discuss...
74
dennis_corbo@...
Apr 16, 1999 5:55 pm
If it is important to know, at a conceptual level of understanding, that a set of roles played by an object represent an aggregation, you could probably do one...
75
Terry Halpin
TerryH@...
Apr 16, 1999 5:55 pm
Dave's intuitions are at least partly correct. As I discussed in Part 8 of my UML/ORM series for the JCM, there are some connections between ORM constraints...
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Allred, Mark J
Mark.Allred@...
Apr 16, 1999 5:55 pm
There are several definitions of aggregation which make Dave's observations valid in regard to collecting attributes about some concept. My Webster's...
