Dear Azuddin,

I am quite surprised to receive your rejoinder after quite some time.

Firstly, other religions also put forth a system of rewards and
punishment. Islam is in no way unique to this.

You suggest that Muslims do not practice what they are taught and
argue on basic things. Firstly, I would say that Many muslims do
practice what they are taught and while it is true that they argue
about basic things they do also argue about other things not so basic
(The Muslims in Singapore for instance, are discussing about Cloning
and Stem-cells - hardly basic stuffs).

The point however is that the "basic" things are no less important if
not more so. In traditional Islamic scholarship, definition (ta'rif) -
something that can be described as "basic" - is of utmost importance.
Without a proper definiton of concepts, early Muslim scholars
recognise the futility of further discussions and intellectual
explorations. So why don't you answer my questions about defining and
explaning exactly what you are speaking about? It is you who speak of
intelligence and Wisdom and Systems but when I asked what really are
you talking about you throw these red-herrings about Muslims arguing
about basic things. Whether Muslims argue about basic things or not is
not the issue. The fact is that you spoke of Wisdom without being
clear about it. You even went on to make a claim about Wisdom saying
that Wisdom is something that can be inherited but Intelligence, you
claim, cannot. Such claims need to be justified. What makes Wisdom
something that can be inherited while Intelligence cannot be
inherited? Lets' take an example: Nabi Sulaiman (King Solomon, in
biblical literature) is recognised to be the archetypal man of Wisdom
by the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Now, his father is Nabi Daud
(King David). Can we say that Solomon inherited his Wisdom from David?
Your claim would suggest that the answer is "Yes" because you said
that Wisdom can be inherited... and yet, what proof do you have of this?

You also claim that the West perfected Wisdom! As someone who has done
extensive research on Comparative Ontology and Epistemology in
different Civilisations and Religions, this claim is outlandish to say
the least. In what way can Wisdom be perfected? How did the West
perfected Wisdom? In what way is Wisdom imperfect requiring the West
to perfect it?

Can you please justify your claims otherwise they would be empty
claims. The four claims that you made which I listed earlier are
sorely in need to be justified. Defining concepts is not useless and
asking for justification for a claim is only fair. And, no offence to
Americans (as Westerners), I have quite a few American friends whom I
love and respect - while some studiously maintain oral hygiene there
are others sorely lacking in it.


Abdul Halim
Nanyang Technological University

Quoting Azuddin Jud Haji Ismail <azuddinjudismail@...>:

> Dear Abdul
> ISLAM is the only Religion who gives reward [points] if the Muslim
> BRUSH their TEETH, NO OTHER Religion gives REWARD like Islam. The
> issue is The Muslim Did Not Practice What Their Religion Ask Them To
> Do. The Western Civilization and Non-Muslim Brush Their Teeth
> RELIGIOUSLY. Good teeth, good digestion, healthy body, excellent brain
> - Intelligent & Full of Innovation.
>
> Where else the Muslim did not and ARGUE ON BASIC THINGS
> Define Wisdom, Define Intelligence, Define Systems.
> " When You Are Educated, You'll believe Only Half You Hear"
> " When You Are Intelligent, You Know Which Half..."
>
> My 2 Cents Thots : We need a driving license to drive a car....
> If I take away the Dashboard out of your car, can you drive your car,
> EVEN if you have the driving license? THAT IS INTELLIGENT SYSTEM Bro.
> That is what I meant and it is useless to define your questions as we
> are discussing and I am open for any progress for development, NOT
> going back to nitty gritty definition.
>
> Azuddin Jud Ismail
> CEO
> Melaka ICT Holdings
> Director of K-Ekonomi Melaka State Govt
> Head of ICT Dunia Melayu Dunia Islam
> President - Malaysia Intelligent Development Society - MINDS
> Sys Architect [Biz/Revenue Model]- DMDI Finance House
>
>> Dear AJ,
>>
>> Your claims suggest that:
>>
>> 1. We start with Intelligent Management and then (quite suddenly) end
>> up with Wisdom.
>> 2. There are differences not only in terms of interpretation and
>> practices of the ulama (Muslim scholars) regarding Islamic Scriptures
>> but also in terms of "principles in their knowledge".
>> 3. Intelligence cannot be inherited but Wisdom can be.
>> 4, While the Chinese, the Indians and the Jews have got Wisdom, the
>> West "made it perfect".
>>
>> Really, AJA, I have problems with all of the above contention of
>> yours. I think they are gross generalisations in need of strong
>> premises. All of the above interests me but let us just tackle no.3.
>> My question to you are:
>>
>> 1. How do you define Intelligence?
>> 2. How do you define Wisdom?
>> 3. What do you mean when you say that Wisdom can be inherited?
>> 4. Please give us the evidence for your position that Wisdom can be
>> inherited while Intelligence cannot.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Abdul
>>
>>
>> Quoting Azuddin Jud Ismail <azuddinjudismail@...>:
>>
>> > Just my humble thots:
>> > Why not Intelligent Management first and later it will be Wisdom.
>> > Am currently pursuing the Competitive Intelligence within Islamic
>> > Countries. They shared the same source Al-Quran and Hadiths [Ijitima
>> > Ulama and other wisdom]. Most of them interpreted differently. Due
>> > to social eco-systems and cultural. They practices differently and
>> > their principles in thier knowledge aslo differs from Muslim in any
>> > other countries. The Muslim shared the same source and yet they cant
>> > even get the knowledge right and thus difficult to get the
>> > intelligence out of it. Intelligence cannot be inherited, Wisdom
>> > can. The Chinese, the Jews and the Indians has the whole
>> > civilization on Wisdom. The west make it perfect.
>> >
>> > Ikhlas - AJ
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> >
>> > Real people. Real questions. Real answers. Share what you know.
>>
>
>
>