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Reply | Forward Message #239 of 269 |
Re: Word order

--- In konyalanguage@yahoogroups.com, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@g...>
wrote:
>
> On 10/10/05, Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@m...> wrote:
>
> > > 3) So let's use the final vowel as a lexical class marker.
> > Here I have a problem. Does this perhaps imply that the
> > number of lexical classes must equal the number of vowels
> > in the phoneme inventory? If so, are we sure that gives us
> > enough lexical classes to construct almost any interesting
> > utterance?
>

In fact, we don't have enough. Names take a two-letter marker, "ya",
and in version 037 I have invented the interjection/qualifier, which
takes the two-letter marker "ye".

I'm not entirely satisfied with the interjection/qualifier, though.
It seems to occupy a midpoint between functional and lexical. It has
lexical relatives in the other classes, but, like a functional, it
has special properties, chief among them that it serves to modify
precisely what has preceded it, rather than the most recent headword
(noun or verb). I wonder if we wouldn't be better off just having
them as functionals and, if we need related lexicals, just build them
off the functionals, which can take classifier suffixes as easily as
lexicals can.

Any class of words that is very small needs to be looked at as a
candidate for functional class rather than lexical.

> If you look back in the group archives, you'll see
> we talked about a possible scheme with four semantic
> categories (substance, action/process, relationship,
> and quality) which correspond to four "parts of
> speech", noun, verb, preposition, and adjective/adverb.
> But I think Larry finally went with a simpler scheme
> that folds relationships into the other categories.
>

No, or if I did, I didn't mean to. We have -i for nouns, -u for
verbs, -o for prepositions, and -e for adjectives/adverbs. Doi bu doi?

We had also, even a bit earlier, discussed order of preference for
selecting the natural class of a lexical root. I don't remember for
certain the order, but the order that lately seems to be the most
effective is:

1) preposition
2) verb
3) modifier (adjective/adverb)
4) noun

Despite this preference, most words come out as nouns, though.

--larry

P.S. Jim, has anybody heard anything from Jeff Henning? I've emailed
him and put out an APB on some newsgroups. langmaker.com is at least
2 months stagnant. Not a peep.








Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:19 pm

HandyDad
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Forward
Message #239 of 269 |
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I generally feel that head-initial is a bit more logical than head-final. However, I'm considering moving Konya towards head-final (except for subordinate ...
HandyDad
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Sep 14, 2005
5:06 pm

... final. However, ... subordinate ... it would ... It's possible to have head-initial compounds; it just seems weird. ... an ... In that ... But then you...
ansric
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Sep 17, 2005
5:58 am

... The reason I say that is that the headword of a compound is likely to carry the right kind of grammar marker for the compound as a whole. So "xelen-paipi"...
HandyDad
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Sep 19, 2005
4:46 pm

... head- ... think ... weird. ... to carry the right kind ... yellow-{noun.marker}' > ... desirable. Let's parse a sentence of Malay: "Burung kakak tua itu...
yahya_melb
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Oct 8, 2005
10:05 am

... marker "[- ... We've run into this little bind because we're trying to be clear about derivations. "xele" is a core modifier, meaning 'yellow'. "xeli" is...
HandyDad
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Oct 9, 2005
3:36 am

Larry, ... Interestingly here, Malay has also many simple verbs of form CVCV. It creates many abstract nouns by adding the suffix "-an", corresponding to...
Yahya Abdal-Aziz
yahya_melb
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Oct 10, 2005
2:10 pm

... If you look back in the group archives, you'll see we talked about a possible scheme with four semantic categories (substance, action/process,...
Jim Henry
jack_longshadow
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Oct 10, 2005
3:55 pm

... In fact, we don't have enough. Names take a two-letter marker, "ya", and in version 037 I have invented the interjection/qualifier, which takes the...
HandyDad
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Oct 10, 2005
7:20 pm

Hi all, ... Thanks for this, Jim. On joining the list, I scanned the messages page and discovered that the list has been running since March. Rather than read...
Yahya Abdal-Aziz
yahya_melb
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Oct 11, 2005
5:58 am

... I was misremembering based on some of Larry's last messages in that earlier thread, not having had time recently to read the entire revised Konya 037...
Jim Henry
jack_longshadow
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Oct 12, 2005
2:47 pm

... That's cool, Jim; I know the feeling! :-) And I'm taking my time with Konya at the moment, to let it all seep in a bit more. Offhand, I can't see any need...
Yahya Abdal-Aziz
yahya_melb
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Oct 13, 2005
6:47 am
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