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Reply | Forward Message #242 of 269 |
Re: Word order


Hi all,

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Jim Henry wrote:
> On 10/10/05, Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...> wrote:
> > > 3) So let's use the final vowel as a lexical class marker.
> > Here I have a problem. Does this perhaps imply that the
> > number of lexical classes must equal the number of vowels
> > in the phoneme inventory? If so, are we sure that gives us
> > enough lexical classes to construct almost any interesting
> > utterance?
>
> If you look back in the group archives, you'll see
> we talked about a possible scheme with four semantic
> categories (substance, action/process, relationship,
> and quality) which correspond to four "parts of
> speech", noun, verb, preposition, and adjective/adverb.
> But I think Larry finally went with a simpler scheme
> that folds relationships into the other categories.
>
> Jim Henry

Thanks for this, Jim.

On joining the list, I scanned the messages page and
discovered that the list has been running since March.
Rather than read the entire archive, I chose to start at
the beginning of September, hoping this way to avoid
discussing any dead issues. Of course, in doing so I
accepted the risk that I would reopen old issues in
ignorance of the previous discussion and conclusions.

From reading the (latest) Konya description, I expected
it to have exactly four semantic categories with
corresponding lexical classes. Jim's message suggests
that Konya now has only three. Could it be that we will
discover a need to make the number five, say, or seven?
Unless we can definitively fix the number of categories
AND match it to the number of available vowels, it
seems likely to me that we may either have a category
we can't express, or a potential waste of a significant
fraction of the possible shorter morphemes.

For your consideration: Perhaps this one-to-one
mapping of vowels and semantic classes is not quite
flexible enough?

Regards,
Yahya

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Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:55 am

yahya_melb
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Message #242 of 269 |
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I generally feel that head-initial is a bit more logical than head-final. However, I'm considering moving Konya towards head-final (except for subordinate ...
HandyDad
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Sep 14, 2005
5:06 pm

... final. However, ... subordinate ... it would ... It's possible to have head-initial compounds; it just seems weird. ... an ... In that ... But then you...
ansric
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Sep 17, 2005
5:58 am

... The reason I say that is that the headword of a compound is likely to carry the right kind of grammar marker for the compound as a whole. So "xelen-paipi"...
HandyDad
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Sep 19, 2005
4:46 pm

... head- ... think ... weird. ... to carry the right kind ... yellow-{noun.marker}' > ... desirable. Let's parse a sentence of Malay: "Burung kakak tua itu...
yahya_melb
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Oct 8, 2005
10:05 am

... marker "[- ... We've run into this little bind because we're trying to be clear about derivations. "xele" is a core modifier, meaning 'yellow'. "xeli" is...
HandyDad
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Oct 9, 2005
3:36 am

Larry, ... Interestingly here, Malay has also many simple verbs of form CVCV. It creates many abstract nouns by adding the suffix "-an", corresponding to...
Yahya Abdal-Aziz
yahya_melb
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Oct 10, 2005
2:10 pm

... If you look back in the group archives, you'll see we talked about a possible scheme with four semantic categories (substance, action/process,...
Jim Henry
jack_longshadow
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Oct 10, 2005
3:55 pm

... In fact, we don't have enough. Names take a two-letter marker, "ya", and in version 037 I have invented the interjection/qualifier, which takes the...
HandyDad
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Oct 10, 2005
7:20 pm

Hi all, ... Thanks for this, Jim. On joining the list, I scanned the messages page and discovered that the list has been running since March. Rather than read...
Yahya Abdal-Aziz
yahya_melb
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Oct 11, 2005
5:58 am

... I was misremembering based on some of Larry's last messages in that earlier thread, not having had time recently to read the entire revised Konya 037...
Jim Henry
jack_longshadow
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Oct 12, 2005
2:47 pm

... That's cool, Jim; I know the feeling! :-) And I'm taking my time with Konya at the moment, to let it all seep in a bit more. Offhand, I can't see any need...
Yahya Abdal-Aziz
yahya_melb
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Oct 13, 2005
6:47 am
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