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Some notes on PE17   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1041 of 1084 |
Re: Some notes on PE17

Christopher Gilson replied to my question #7 (for which see our previous
messages):

> Certainly this is a possibility; though it seems that once the idea
> of the idiom had occurred to Tolkien he could easily come up with
> a similar explanation in a context where it was relevant, without
> having the earlier explanation of it in front of him.

Yes, of course. In this case, I thought that the choice of an example
(to raise one's hands) and the similarity of sentence structure
(singular form; dual form; plural is impossible) was a remarkable chance
resemblance.

As for the idiom itself, a similar example may be _i karir quettar
ómainen_ 'those who form words with voices' in _Quendi and Eldar_
(XI:391). In later writings, _ómainen_ would probably be a plural form
(cf. instr. sg. _parmanen_, PE17:180); but the older singular form was
_-inen_ (_kiryainen_, PE16:113), and I am under the impression that by
1959 the older pattern was still valid as far as the instrumental case
is concerned.

As an aside, it seems only natural to me as a Swedish speaker to use the
singular form in expressions such as "all the students raised their
handS" or "those who form words with voiceS". In Swedish it might be
"alla eleverna räckte upp handen" and "de som formar ord med rösten" --
in the latter case, the plural form ("rösterna") would sound strange, as
if they had more than one voice each.

So I think that 'they raised their hands' was not necessarily an
isolated example of this idiom in Tolkien's mind.

>> 10) On page 189 s.v. WE (and in the editorial comment on WEG, p. 191), a
>> root WEK is referred to. I cannot find it in the list of "Eldarin Roots
>> and Stems". Was it deleted?
>
> This item was not deleted in the manuscript; but it was
> accidentally left out of PE 17.

Since it was intended for publication, could it perhaps be added to the
errata & addenda list for PE at http://www.elvish.org/errata, and/or
published on this list?

/Fredrik



Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:55 pm

frestro
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Message #1041 of 1084 |
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Some questions and observations on PE17: 1) According to the editor's note on page 148 s.v. *AWA, WA*, there is a root TEN in the "Definitive Linguistic notes"...
Fredrik
frestro
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Dec 30, 2007
12:23 am

... This entry for root TEN was inadvertantly left out of PE 17. It was fairly hastily written in pencil in the top margin of that page of DLN, above the...
cgilson75
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Dec 31, 2007
12:52 pm

Christopher Gilson replied to my question #7 (for which see our previous ... Yes, of course. In this case, I thought that the choice of an example (to raise...
Fredrik
frestro
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Dec 31, 2007
10:16 pm

... Even though it's an interesting hypothesis, it seems to me quite improbable. I've already highlighted in #1004 that the documents identified with the first...
Ugo Truffelli
elistir
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Jan 20, 2008
1:01 pm

... I agree with much of what you say. But of course I did not mean to suggest that _voice_ (the concept) might somehow fall into the category of "parts [of...
Fredrik
frestro
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Jan 22, 2008
12:44 pm

... How does this item read? If I get the text then I can add it to the errata list. Suilaid o Mellonath Daeron, Gildir, Per Lindberg...
gildir_2
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Mar 30, 2008
8:05 pm

On page 112 in PE17 there are two texts on Idril. The editor notes for the first one that "This note is on a page in NN ["Notes on Names"] with notes on...
Fredrik
frestro
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Dec 31, 2007
12:56 pm

... These two _Idril_ texts are on separate pages, thus the different descriptions of their other contents. Also note that I say about the first of these...
cgilson75
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Jan 6, 2008
1:39 pm
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