Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
lambengolmor
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want your group to be featured on the Yahoo! Groups website? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Haywards   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #840 of 1088 |
In their excellent book _The Lord of the Rings: A
Reader's Companion_, Wayne G.Hammond and Christina
Scull write:

"haywards -- The term _hayward_ originally referred to
one who protected the fences around lands enclosed for
growing hay (Old English _hegeweard_), later more
generally applied to one who prevents cattle from
breaking through into enclosed fields with growing
crops." (p. 35)

There are two words _hay_ in English, of distinct
origin:

hay(1). Dried grass. AS. _hieg_ [i with a macron],
cognate with _hew_.

hay(2). Hedge, enclosure. AS. _hege_ ... Survives in
name _Hayward_, official protecting enclosures.

(Weekley, _Concise Etymological Dictionary of Modern
English_. Other etymological dictionaries say
basically the same, e.g. Skeat,
http://www.etymonline.com.)

The dictionaries would seem to agree with the first
part of the definition as given by Hammond & Scull:
"one who protected the fences around lands enclosed".
What I am curious about is the "for growing hay" part.
To me, it sounds suspiciously like folk etymology, as
the OE word _hegeweard_ would have had no particular
connection to ModE _hay_ 'cut grass'.

Isn't the more general application--the "later" one
according to Hammond & Scull--in fact the older one?

Kind regards,
Fredrik Ström

[I can't answer this definitively myself, since Hammond
& Scull may have been citing a reference work to which
I don't have access. I will note that the OED appears to
support Fredrik's interpretation -- it gives the first element
in _hayward_ as hay(2) 'a hedge, a fence', and glosses the
word as 'an officer of a manor, township, or parish, having
charge of the fences and enclosures, esp. to keep cattle
from breaking through from the common into enclosed
fields; sometimes, the herdsman of the cattle feeding on
the common'. This makes no mention of any connection
with hay(1) 'dried grass'.

Wright's _English Dialect Dictionary_ and C.T. Onions'
_Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology_ are both in
accord with the OED on this point. Perhaps Wayne or
Christina might be able to comment? -- PHW]





Fri Nov 4, 2005 11:59 am

frestro
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #840 of 1088 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

In their excellent book _The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion_, Wayne G.Hammond and Christina Scull write: "haywards -- The term _hayward_ originally...
F. Strÿfffff6m
frestro
Offline Send Email
Nov 5, 2005
2:46 pm

See Tolkien's _Guide to the Names_, Persons, _Hayward_: "The word is derived from _hay_ 'fence' (_not_ 'grass') + _ward_ 'guard'." (TC:168) - Beregond...
Beregond. Anders Sten...
j_beregond
Offline Send Email
Nov 5, 2005
3:57 pm

Recall also "Haysend" - where too "hay"="hedge". Lukas...
Luká Novák
lukas.novak@...
Send Email
Nov 6, 2005
12:49 pm

... The text of the "Guide" is also printed in the _Reader's Companion_ itself. [The page reference in Beregond's post was added by your humble moderator, who...
F. Strÿfffff6m
frestro
Offline Send Email
Nov 6, 2005
2:47 pm

... No, I don't think so. Too many details have passed by now to be sure, but I think that we meant to point to the mention of the Hay Gate. If we had meant...
Wayne G. Hammond
whammondwayne
Offline Send Email
Nov 6, 2005
4:46 pm

On p. 580 in _The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion_, Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull writes: "_athelas_ in the noble tongue [...] In the following ...
F. Ström
frestro
Offline Send Email
Nov 14, 2005
1:45 am

... Strictly speaking, that's true. It's really just an extrapolation, based on the gloss of _athelas_ as 'kingsfoil' and the transparent meaning of _aranion_...
Arden R. Smith
erilaz7
Offline Send Email
Nov 14, 2005
12:45 pm

On his 'Addenda and Corrigenda' page to RC (http://bcn.net/~whammond/addenda/readers.html), Wayne Hammond writes: 'On the Lambengolmor forum,...
F. Strÿfffff6m
frestro
Offline Send Email
Dec 3, 2005
4:17 am

You know, I've felt guilty for the better part of a decade for my unthinking and unauthorized posting of that snippet on Usenet- especially since soon...
William Cloud Hicklin
icelofangeln
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2006
12:42 pm

... ...
F. Ström
frestro
Offline Send Email
Nov 14, 2005
12:53 pm

... should have pointed to Tolkien's own gloss in the "Nomenclature", as indeed we do in our gloss for "Hob Hayward" (LR p. 998, our p. 655). Our note on p. 35...
Wayne G. Hammond
whammondwayne
Offline Send Email
Nov 6, 2005
2:11 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help