Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
lambengolmor
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want to share photos of your group with the world? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
"Tolkien in Oxford"   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
Reply  | 
Re: "Tolkien in Oxford"

>_arcastar mondósaresse_

Very interesting! I cannot resist analyzing this right away:

_mondósaresse_ 'in Oxford'

In Letter no.342 Tolkien gives "the elvish word for 'bull'" as _mundo_
(apparently in Quenya), so that one can identify _mondo_ 'ox' here.
An element 'ford, crossing' would be then expected to follow and
indeed _-sar-_ can be related to THAR- 'across, beyond' (V:392), also
_thar-_ 'athwart, across' in the _Silmarillion_ glossary with _Tharbad_
< _thara-pata_ 'crossway'.

[Note also numerous Q. words in _sar-_ having to do with stones or
stoniness, as _sarne_ 'stony place' < SAR- (V:385, VT46:12). CFH]

The long _-ó-_ seems to suggest that one should isolate _#ósar(e)_
'ford', rather than just _#sar(e)_ with the prefix _ó-_ 'used in words
describing the meeting, junction, or union of two things or persons,
or of two groups thought of as units' (XI:367); and _-s-_ < _th_ would
naturally resist rhotacism here.

The ending _-sse_ is of course locative, while the vowel _-e-_ before
it may belong to the preceding word (#_ósare-sse_) or just link the
ending to it (#_ósar-e-sse_).

_arcastar_ 'Tolkien'

Tolkien's name is an anglicization of _Tollkiehn_ , German _tollkühn_
'foolhardy, reckless, desperately brave' (compare Letter no.165),
containing _toll_ 'insane, mad, wild' and _kühn_ 'brave'. A more or
less literal translation into English Tolkien himself also made, was
'Rashbold' (IX:151).

I would analyze the Quenya word as _*arca-star_.

The initial element _arca-_ looks similar to Q _arauka_ 'swift,
rushing' (PE12:34) from RAVA or RAWA (PE12:79) with many derivatives
for chase, running, hunting, fierceness; also _rauka_ = _arauka_ 'swift'.
But of course a diphthong cannot be syncopated, so that one has to
assume a different derivation from a changed or parallel root, e.g. <
_*araka_ < (A)RAK- (?); cf. Q _narka_ 'to rend' from NÁRAK- 'tear, rend
(tr. and intr.)' (V:374, VT45:37).

The latter element _-star_ seems to be related to STAR- 'stiff'
(V:388), with _st_ preserved medially. Although this stem yields words
for grass only — Q _sara_ 'stiff, dry grass, bent', N _thâr_ 'stiff
grass' and so on — there is a different root TÁRAG- 'tough, stiff'
producing Q _tarya_ 'tough, stiff' and N. _tarias_ 'stiffness, toughness,
difficulty', _tarlanc_'stiff-necked, obstinate' with reference to more
abstract meanings. Hence, _arcastar_ would be something like
*'rushing [and] stiff-necked'.

[I like your analysis, though I think _-star_ as 'stiff' (without any
reference to necks) is a fine rendering of the sense of 'hardy' in
'foolhardy', both as physically 'hard, tough' and as metaphorically
'unyielding, resolute'. CFH]

Roman Rausch






Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:10 pm

rausch_roman
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

 | 
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Mellyn! In Christie's sale November 15 (catalogue named _Valuable Printed Books and Manuscripts_), lot 152 is an inscribed set of _The Lord of the Rings_,...
Beregond. Anders Sten...
j_beregond
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2006
12:44 pm

Thanks to Anders for passing along notice of this very interesting letter! I can add one bit of information not mentioned in the exhibit catalogue, which is...
Carl F. Hostetter
endorendil
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2006
3:25 pm

... That should read "placed _above_ the consonant", of course; sorry for the typo. Carl...
Carl F. Hostetter
endorendil
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2006
5:40 pm

... I read the first line and a half in this way: "Here {or "Above"?} are some specimens. A is a transliteration of English. But this happens " [Aha! I think...
Beregond. Anders Sten...
j_beregond
Offline Send Email
Oct 28, 2006
6:22 pm

... The catalogue has arrived, and everything is legible. The words above the second line of tengwar are: "In Elvish language & script" The note in green...
Beregond. Anders Sten...
j_beregond
Offline Send Email
Nov 6, 2006
12:48 pm

Beregond/Anders Stenström wrote: ... ... May I ask for the last sign of the second tengwar transcription of 'Mondósaresse'? On the scan available at...
j_mach_wust
Offline Send Email
Nov 6, 2006
2:13 pm

... There is an 'acute' below the ascender of the esse. Suilad, Beregond...
"Beregond. Anders Ste...
j_beregond
Offline Send Email
Nov 7, 2006
3:53 am

... Very interesting! I cannot resist analyzing this right away: _mondósaresse_ 'in Oxford' In Letter no.342 Tolkien gives "the elvish word for 'bull'" as...
Roman Rausch
rausch_roman
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2006
3:59 pm

... What about connecting _-(a)sta-r_ with Tulkas's title: _Astaldo_ 'The Valiant'? In my humble opinion the second element in the name _Mondósar(e)_ 'Oxford'...
Richard Derdzinski
galadhorn
Offline Send Email
Oct 28, 2006
2:10 am

... I believe that _Astaldo_ should be rather related to STÁLAG- with primitive _stalga_ 'stalwart, steady, firm', N _thalion_ 'hero, dauntless man' (V:388)...
Roman Rausch
rausch_roman
Offline Send Email
Oct 28, 2006
4:16 pm

... In Note 24 to Quendi and Eldar, we learn that "[m]edial z < s had became r in the Ńoldorin dialect of Q except when an adjacent syllable, or (as here) the...
Andreas Johansson
andjo@...
Send Email
Nov 1, 2006
7:01 pm

... Hm. I thought the stress in _Mondósaresse_ would lie on the _e_ preceding the double consonant _ss_ (according to the pronunciation rules as for example...
hisilome
Offline Send Email
Nov 5, 2006
1:41 am

Hello, ... This is the realm of guesswork: the rule, as given, does imply that we could have _s_/_r_ alternations in the paradigm relative to stress (witness...
Pavel Iosad
pavel_iosad
Offline Send Email
Nov 6, 2006
12:49 pm

... My original objection was mainly to Roman's statement that in _Mondósaresse_ the _s_ is followed by the stressed vowel, which is patently false (if one...
hisilome
Offline Send Email
Nov 7, 2006
12:40 pm

On reflection, I think that I should relay the following thought to the list. As I had shown Beregond's [Anders Stenström's] initial post and Christie's lot...
Harm J. Schelhaas
mithrennaith
Offline Send Email
Nov 7, 2006
11:49 pm

... An example for an ancient compound with rhotacism carried out seems to exist, namely: Q _Tindómerel_ *'daughter/child of twilight' (V:385) with the...
Roman Rausch
rausch_roman
Offline Send Email
Nov 9, 2006
3:15 am

... The wild thought has occurred to me to read it as *_ar-cas+ta-r_: an agent noun in _-r_ to a verb *_casta-_ (in turn formed by adding causative _-ta_ to...
Jerome Colburn
jcolburn@...
Send Email
Nov 1, 2006
6:59 pm

Just a minor correction: For me the first word of the Elvish greeting (inscribed by Tolkien in the copy of _The Fellowship of the Ring_ being auctioned) reads...
Florian Dombach
florian_loth...
Offline Send Email
Oct 28, 2006
4:04 pm

It has long appeared to me that as printed in _The Peoples of Middle-earth_ (XII:295-320), the essay 'Of Dwarves and Men' is strangely circular in disposition....
F.S.
frestro
Offline Send Email
Oct 28, 2006
8:44 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help