While Arda still grew and flourished, and the two Lamps stood at the
north and south sides of the world, there was an island in the midst
of Arda. Tolkien, now working in the late 1940s on a revised version
of the "Ainulindale" (published in "Morgoth's Ring" as Version C),
produced three name for this island, though only the last one was
allowed to stand: _Almar_ (X:23, called _Almaren_ on pg. X:7). I shall
here discuss the preceding forms _Eccuilë_ and _Eremar_ (X:22-3,
note 18):

_Eccuilë_: We find here at least one attested element in _cuilë_
"life, being alive" (KUY, V:366); the first one however is difficult: it
could be a prefix like _et-_ "out, forth" (ET-, V:356) connected with
_cuilë_; and indeed we can find in V:366 a Noldorin word _echui(w)_
"awakening" derived from PE *_et-kuiwê_. Thus it is very likely that a
similiar reconstruction fits for Quenya _Eccuilë_ as well,especially in
this case of _cuile_ "life". While in Noldorin the medial combination
–TK- became a voiceless velar –CH-, Quenya would have turned –TK- into
double consonant –KK-. We meet this same phenomenon also c. 1940
in the Qenya verb form *_ekkoita-_ "to awaken" (VT14:17;
_erenekkoitanie_ "that he might awake them"), being derived from
_et-_+ KOYO (QL:48). But also in our later sources we can find that
kind of mutation of consonants as in _Et-pele_ > _Eppele_ (VIII:137).

Another possibility for explaining _Eccuilë_ would be an intensive
prefix: VT45:11 mentions  the intensive prefix _e-_ as in _Ender_, the
surname of Tulkas. Yet, this is said to be only applied when the
base vowel is also _e_. How would that fit together with _Eccuilë_?
Due to the fact that the base vowel of _cuilë_ would be _u_ (s. a.
above) we would rather think of something like **_uccuilë_.
Fortunately we have another example, which agrees that this is not
necessarily the case, in _ekkaira_ *"most far away" (KHAYA-, V:364).
In VT45:21 it is supposed that this may be an "?int[ensive]" form of
_haira_ "remote, far".

Putting it all together: What is the meaning of _Eccuilë_, and which
reconstruction is desirable? Looking at the context, we have to favor
the first one:

The stem from which _cuilë_ itself is derived is KUY- "come to life,
awake", and Tolkien says of _Eccuilë_ that the Gods took up their
abode on this isle "when all things were new, and green was yet a
marvel in the eyes of the makers" (X:18). Though I don't know whether
_et-_ could bear the meaning "new", I'd suggest as a translation for
_Eccuilë_ *"New Life, Life's awakening, Awakening".

Yet, we have to consider that the context is not always the deciding
factor, and it is also possible that the second reconstruction is
right: If _Eccuilë_ was indeed built by an intensive prefix we may
assume that it could mean *"high, extraordinary, divine Life".

_Eremar_: the first word element *_ere_, or shortened _er_, appears
with two different meanings in Tolkien's works: The Etymologies
list _er_ "one, alone" (ERE-, V:356), but in the "New Era Calender"
from 1949-50 we meet _er_ with the meaning "first", e.g.
_Ertuilë_ *"First-Spring" (XII:133-136; see also Patrick Wynne's
discussion of the "The Quenya Prefixes _ER-, NÓ-, METE-_" in
Lambengolmor Message #830). We have to assume that the latter meaning
must be apposite since Tolkien tells us that "there upon the isle of
Almar [<< Eremar] in a great lake was the first dwelling of the gods",
supporting the view that _ere_ must be translated as "first". _mar_
"home, dwelling" (MBAR-, V:372, VT45:33; this occurs often as a word
element, e. g. _Endamar_, V:372) as  the second word element seems to
be connected directly to the stem ERE- without syncopation and we can
surely assume that _Eremar_ means *"First home, first dwelling".

Philipp Marquart

P.S.: I want to thank Patrick Wynne for his invaluable help in
suggesting other possible explanations (and translations) for
_Eccuilë_ and _Eremar_.

Of the two Noldorin names of Trotter remaining to be discussed, neither actually
means
'Trotter'.

DU-FINNION

In Chapter XI of the 'third phase' of  composition of _The Lord of the Rings_,
Glorfindel
refers to Trotter as _Du-finnion_, calling out "_Ai, Du-finnion! Mai govannen!_"
(VI:361,
392). On the Aglardh site, "Ninniach" has proposed that this name probably means
'dark-
tressed one' (_dû_ + _finn-_ + _ion_); while on a Tolkien discussion board in
German,
"Aran" similarly notes that "_Du-finnion_ appears to be 'The Dark-haired'."
(Links to these
two sites were provided by Roman Rausch in Lambengolmor post #916.)

This translation, 'dark-haired', seems to be the only reasonable possibility.
Cp. S. _dû_
'dim, dark', shortened to _du_ when preceding the main word-stress in
_Duhir-ion_
'region of the dim streams' (RC:269); and S. _find, finn-_ 'a tress' (XII:362,
n. 37) -- the
Etymologies has N. _dû_ 'nightfall, late evening' and Q. _finde_, ON _sphinde_
'lock of hair'
< *_spindê_ 'tress, braid of hair'; no Noldorin form is given, though this would
have to be
*_find, finn_. The ending _-ion_ is probably N. _ionn, -ion_ 'son', seen in N.
_Ecthelion_,
_Gelion_ 'merry singer', _Dúrion_ or _Durion_ 'Dark-Elf', etc.; in these names
_-ion_
appears to function as a general masculine ending rather than as a patronymic
(V:355,
359, 374; VT45:9).

Another feature of the 'third phase' of composition was Tolkien's decision that
Trotter was
the hobbit Peregrin Boffin (see VI:376, 1st paragraph), and a text of "A
Long-expected
Party" from this phase of writing describes Peregrin as "a dark-haired and (for
a hobbit)
lanky lad" (VI:385). Similarly, various versions of Gandalf's letter to to
Bingo/Frodo
describe Trotter as "dark" (VI:158, 352). There is perhaps a deliberate element
of irony in
the fact that the sole occurrence of _Du-finnion_ is in Glorfindel's Noldorin
greeting to
Trotter, since Glorfindel's own name meant *'Golden-hair': N. _glaur, glor_
'gold' (of light),
N. _findel_ '(braided) hair' (V:358, 387).

ETHELION

Trotter's fourth Elvish name, _Ethelion_, is a Noldorin translation of
_Peregrin_. This is
explicitly stated in VI:395, which refers to "Trotter (as Frodo continued to
call him instead
of Peregrin or the Elvish equivalent Ethelion)". Similarly, in another text
Bilbo asks for
Peregrin's help, "and Elrond replies that he will have _Ethelion_ found"
(VI:392).

The name _Peregrin_ is from Latin _peregrinus_ 'from foreign parts, foreigner'
(whence
also English _pilgrim_), which is in turn from the Latin adverb _peregre_ 'from
abroad'. The
element *_ethel_ in _Ethelion_ must therefore be the Noldorin form corresponding
to Q.
_ettele_ 'outer lands, foreign parts', _ettelea_ 'foreign, stranger' (V:356,
VT45:13), with the
name apparently intended as *'One who travels in foreign lands'.

-- Patrick H. Wynne

On 03.07.2006, at 15:37, Philipp Marquart wrote:

> While in Noldorin the medial combination
> –TK- became a voiceless velar –CH-, Quenya would have turned –TK- into
> double consonant –KK-. We meet this same phenomenon also c. 1940
> in the Qenya verb form *_ekkoita-_ "to awaken" (VT14:17;
> _erenekkoitanie_ "that he might awake them"), being derived from
> _et-_+ KOYO (QL:48). But also in our later sources we can find that
> kind of mutation of consonants as in _Et-pele_ > _Eppele_ (VIII:137).

_Ekkaia_ 'the Outer Ocean, the Encircling Sea' seems to show the same
development. The Sindarin voiceless spirants also presuppose -TK > KK
and -TP > PP. This, however, stands in contrast to Q. _ehtele_ and
Noldorin _eithel_ 'spring, issue of water' both < *_et-kelê_ (Etym.
sub voc. KEL-).

David Kiltz

[In the "Qenya Phonology", a similar variation in the Qenya developments
of original TK is explained as follows: "TK has given CC older, and CT
(transposition newer)" (PE12:22). -- PHW]

Please excuse this off-topic message, but I would like list members
to consider assisting in a cause to help the bereaved family of the
late Tolkien documentarian and scholar, Dan Timmons, who died in Dec.
of last year of ALS (aka Lou Gehrig's Disease), tragically young and
leaving behind his wife and infant child.

I met Dan only a couple times myself, at Mythcons, but even in such
brief encounters he could not fail to impress me and all his fellow
Tolkienists with his enthusiasm, knowledge, wit, and warmth. Dan is
perhaps best known for his documentary film, "The Legacy of The Lord
of the Rings", which features interviews and commentaries with and by
numerous prominent Tolkien scholars and fans, and about which you can
read more, and view a brief trailer for, at:

<http://scriptsandscribes.com/projTV.htm>

He is also known for the volume of essays he edited (with George
Clark) and contributed to, _J.R.R. Tolkien and His Literary
Resonances: Views of Middle-earth_ (Greenwood Press, 2000), which was
nominated for the Mythopoeic Scholarship Award, and a review of which
can be read at:

<http://www.mythsoc.org/litresrev.html>

A memorial page has been set up and a PayPal link provided by which
donations can be made to assist Dan's family:

<http://timmonslegacy.livejournal.com/>

--Carl

At 08:37 AM 7/3/06, Philipp Marquart wrote:

>Another possibility for explaining _Eccuilë_ would be an intensive
>prefix: VT45:11 mentions  the intensive prefix _e-_ as in _Ender_, the
>surname of Tulkas. Yet, this is said to be only applied when the
>base vowel is also _e_. How would that fit together with _Eccuilë_?
>Due to the fact that the base vowel of _cuilë_ would be _u_ (s. a.
>above) we would rather think of something like **_uccuilë_.
>Fortunately we have another example, which agrees that this is not
>necessarily the case, in _ekkaira_ *"most far away" (KHAYA-, V:364).
>In VT45:21 it is supposed that this may be an "?int[ensive]" form of
>_haira_ "remote, far".

...although that too looks like a compound in *_et-_ with intensive meaning
(*"out far away" > "farthest away").

The commonly encountered formation that preposes the base vowel (_Aman,
Anár, Isil, Ender, Indis_, etc.) does not double the first consonant of the
root.

+-------------------------+
+ Airesseo Kolvorno       +
+ Jerome Colburn          +
+ jcolburn@...     +
+-------------------------+
"Do you not be happy with me as the translator of the books of you?" -- New
Yorker cartoon

[In VT 17 (May 1991), Carl Hostetter and I began a column called "Words and
Devices", the purpose of which was "to examine words and other linguistic
features of Tolkien's Secondary-World languages that have apparent cognates
and analogues in the languages of the Primary World" (pg. 11). The title was
taken from a passage in _The Silmarillion_ explaining why the languages of
Men often resemble those of the Elves: "It is said also that these Men had
long ago had dealings with the Dark Elves east of the mountains, and from
them had learned much of their speech; and since all the languages of the
Quendi were of one origin, the language of Bëor and his folk resembled the
Elven-tongue in many words and devices" (pg. 141). This column went into
a state of "indefinite abeyance" many years ago, when VT became predominantly
dedicated to the publication of new primary material by Tolkien himself, but
I would like to revive it here on Lambengolmor in the form of occasional posts.
-- PHW]

==========================================

In 1903 J.R.R. Tolkien (then eleven years old) was re-enrolled in King Edward's
School, where he was placed in the Sixth Class under the tutelage of assistant
master George Brewerton. Humphrey Carpenter describes Brewerton as a
"fierce teacher" of English literature and a medievalist by inclination, who
"demanded that his pupils should use the plain old words of the English
language. If a boy employed the term 'manure' Brewerton would roar out:
'Manure? Call it muck! Say it three times! _Muck, muck, muck!_' " (_Tolkien:
A Biography_, pp. 27-8).

In light of this anecdote, it isn't surprising that Tolkien would later make a
rather obvious historical pun on the English word _muck_ in the Qenya
Lexicon, where we find the word _mûko_ 'dung, _stercus_' (Lat. _stercus_
'dung, manure, muck'). Eng. _muck_ is from P.Gmc. *_muk-, *meuk-_ 'soft',
whence also Eng. _meek_ ('quiet, gentle, submissive'), while Q. _mûko_ is
listed under the root MUKU 'cacare' (Lat. 'to empty the bowels') along with
other derivatives, all of which refer to filth or excrement: _mut (kt)_ 'dirt,
filth', _muqa, munqa_ 'filthy', and _mukta (mûke)_ 'cacare'.

The expected Goldodrin form of a Qenya root MUKU would be *_mug-_ (or
*_maug-_ if the original U were long). The Gnomish Lexicon does cite a verb
_mug-_ (pret. _maugi_), but this means 'keep silent, say nothing (about)', and
has several cognates that also all refer to silence or secrecy: _maug_ 'silent',
†_maugli_ 'secret, hidden', _mugol_ 'taciturn', _mugwen_ 'secret', _munc_
'shut mouth; silence; secretiveness' (as an adj., 'mum'). It may be that in the
two years intervening between QL (1915) and GL (1917) Tolkien simply
rejected MUKU as 'cacare' and decided that this root would mean 'keep silent'
instead. But if we entertain the possibility that MUKU 'cacare' and Gn. _mug-_
'keep silent' were intended by Tolkien as coexistent concepts, then perhaps
the meaning of this root in Qenya developed from a euphemism, i.e., 'cacare'
was the act one did 'in secret, in private, while hidden' -- cp. Eng. _privy_,
which means both 'sharing in the knowledge of something secret or private'
as well as 'outhouse, toilet'.

GL also includes the word _gorn_ 'dung' -- and while this is clearly not
cognate with Q. _mûko_, it does appear to be another historical pun based
on a "plain old word of the English language": OE _gor_ 'dirt, dung, shit', of
uncertain origin but cognate with several other Germanic forms such as
OHG _gor_ 'animal dung' and Middle Dutch _goor_ 'filth, mud'. (The Mod. Eng.
equivalent _gore_ means 'clotted blood'.)

As for its _internal_ etymology, Gn. _gorn_ 'dung' is perhaps related to the
QL root KORO(2) 'be round, roll', with derivatives such as _korne_ 'loaf',
_korin_ 'a circular enclosure, esp. on a hill-top', _korma_ 'lump, cake', etc.
Related forms in GL suggest the existence of two distinct roots, *KOR- and
*G(U)OR-, both meaning 'be round, roll'. Forms such as _corn_ 'loaf', _corm_
'ring, circle, disc', _corol, corin_ 'round, circular; rolling', etc. obviously
derive from *KOR-, while on pg. 47 of GL Tolkien mentions "Another root
_gwas-_ or _gor-_ < _guor-_ = Q _kor-_; cp. _gorin_ (= Q _korin_) circle of
trees". Below this note, Gn. _Gwâr_ is equated with Q. _Kôr_ 'the town on
the round Hill', and an alternative Gn. form _Goros_ is given on pg. 41.
Thus _gorn_ 'dung' was perhaps derived from _gor-, guor-_, parallel to the
derivation of _corn_ 'loaf' < *KOR-. The original sense may have been 'round
lump' or 'small (round) hill' -- cp. Welsh _tom_ 'horse dung' (orig. 'ball of
dung'), which is cognate with Irish _tomm_ 'small hill' and Grk. _tymbos_
'burial mound'.

-- Patrick H. Wynne

In the manuscript version of J.R.R. Tolkien's _Early Qenya Grammar_ (EQG),
composed
around 1923 and published in _Parma Eldalamberon_ 14, there is a long Qenya
sentence
illustrating the distinction between the indeclinable relative pronoun _ya_ and
the
conjunction _ne_ 'that' (pg. 54):

'Thereupon in came the man by whom we were told that his money had all been
stolen
from him':
_en ilta túlie n-ner ya me-qetsime ka húyo ne hwa-telpe ie-rautanêma ompa va
húyo_

An alternative version of the latter part of the sentence is also given,
described as "more
Qenyatic":

_ya qensie* melmur ne iksa telpe rautanêma_.

[*NB: -- The published text erroneously gives this form as _qesie_; an
examination of my
photocopy of the manuscript page shows that the correct form is _qensie_.]

Many of the grammatical principles set forth in the EQG are exemplified or
further
elaborated in this sentence, and I present an analysis of it here in the hopes
that it will add
to our understanding of Leeds-era Qenya.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

EN 'thereupon' -- The EQG pg. 55 cites "a general demonstrative deictic particle
or stem
_en-_", which appears on the chart of deictic nouns or pronouns on that same
page as a
general word meaning variously 'thither', 'there', 'thence', or 'then'. The
temporal sense
'then' is intended in the sentence, since Eng. _thereupon_ means 'immediately or
shortly
after that'.

ILTA TÚLIE 'in came' -- The adverb _ilta_ 'in' modifies _túlie_ 'came' and must
be a
derivative of the QL root ILTIL 'thrust in', whence _ilt_ 'a dig or stab' and
_iltin_ 'I thrust
home' (the Gnomish cognate in GL is _ilta-_ 'to stick in, prod, prick'). The
form _túlie_,
past tense of _tul-_ 'come', appears in the verb paradigms on pg. 57; for
formation of the
pa.t. by suffixion of _-ie_ and lengthening of the stem-vowel, see pg. 56.

N-NER 'the man' -- EQG pg. 42 notes that the Qenya article is _i-_ before
consonants but
_n-_ before vowels, the latter form "also frequently used _after_ a preceding
vowel"; thus
_túlie n-ner_ 'came the man'.

YA ... KA HÚYO 'by whom' -- In the EQG Tolkien notes that _ya_ is "to be
understood in
any relation, or, very frequently, is defined by demonstrative or pronominal or
adverbial
words inside the relative clause." In the sentence, _ya_ is clearly 'who' rather
than 'which',
based on its antecedent _ner_ 'man', and it is further defined in the sense 'by
whom' by
addition of the phrase _ka húyo_ *'by him' at the end of the clause. The
instrumental
preposition _ka_ 'by' is apparently derived from the QL root KAHA 'cause'
(marked with a
query), whence the causative verbal prefix _ka-_, as in _kamanta-_ 'to make eat,
give to
eat' < _mat-_ 'eat'. Although glossed as 'him' in the English translation,
_húyo_ is in fact
the emphatic _nominative_ form of the 3 masc. singular pronoun (pg. 53) -- on
pg. 43 the
EQG notes that "prepositions are used with the _nominative_ form". Also cp. _va
húyo_
'from him' at the end of the sentence.

ME-QETSIME 'we were told' -- This phrase was emended several times, making its
interpretation a bit more complex. According to editorial note 89 on pg. 54, the
sequence
of emendation was "_nyeliel_ >> _qense_ >> _qensiêma_ >> _qetsime_". However,
the
initial form _nyeliel_ given here is in error; the manuscript shows two separate
forms,
_nyel_ and _iel_, struck out individually; i.e., Tolkien first wrote _me-nyel_
>> _me-iel_
>> _me-_. The emendation of _qense_ >> _qensiêma_ >> _qetsime_ is actually a
separate series of changes.

The change of _me-nyel_ >> _me-iel_ parallels the emendation of _nye-rautanêma_
'had
been stolen' >> _ie-rautanêma_ later in the sentence, and both of these
emendations
were almost certainly made at the same time. _ie_ and _iel_ are the singular and
plural
past-tense forms of the verb 'to be', given on pg. 57, which also describes the
use of 'to
be' before participles to form compound tenses, such as _e tulien_ 'is having
come, has
come' (perfect). _nye_ and _nyel_ must also be sing. and pl. past-tenses, 'was'
and 'were',
respectively -- evidently formed from _nâ_ 'it is' (given in QL under the root
NÂ 'be, exist')
with the pa.t. suffix _-ie_ and pl. _-l_.

It seems likely then that the latter part of the sentence as first written was
_ya me-nyel
[qense >>] qensiêma ka húyo ne hwa-telpe nye-rautanêma ompa va húyo_, 'by whom
we
were told that his money had all been stolen'. The emendation of _qense_ >>
_qensiêma_
was made in the act of writing, and _qense_ is probably an unfinished form. The
participle
_qensiêma_ was formed from the verb _qet-_ 'speak, talk' (QL, pg. 77), which in
this
sentence also has the meaning 'tell', and the pa.t. form _qensie_ 'told' appears
in the
"more Qenyatic" alternative ending: _ya qensie melmur_ *'who told us'. _qet-_,
pa.t.
_qensie_ is thus precisely parallel to _mat-_, pa.t. _mansie_ (pg. 57), both
being formed by
nasal infixion of the stem with suffixed of _-ie_: *_qe-n-tie, *ma-n-tie_ >
*_qentsie,
*mantsie_ > _qensie, mansie_.

In Lambengolmor post # 674, Javier Lorenzo analyzes _ie-rautanêma_ 'had been
stolen' as
"a singular past tense form of the verb 'to be' (_ie_, p. 57) and the past
passive participle
of the verb _rauta-_ (pa.t. *_rautane_ + ending _-ma_ for passive participle, p.
56; the
vowel lengthening obeys apparently the same mechanism seen in the case of the
indefinite
article suffixed to trisyllabic nouns: _tantare_ 'dance', _tantaré·ma_ 'a dance'
p. 42)". _me-
nyel [>> me-iel] qensiêma_ 'we were told' is clearly the same sort of compound
verb
formed with pl. 'was' and a past passive participle (pa.t. _qensie_ + passive
_-ma_); the
participle _qensiêma_ does not show number agreement with the pl. subject _me-_
'we',
though whether by design or oversight is impossible to say.

The final form of this phrase, _me-qetsime_, eliminates the verb 'to be'
altogether, and
uses a different participial form, _qetsime_, evidently the pl. of singular
*_qetsima_, which
appears to be a _present_ passive participle: present tense stem _qetsi-_ (cp.
the present
stem _matsi-_ of _mat-_ 'eat' in the forms on pg. 57: _matsil, matsir,
matsikto_, etc.) +
passive participle ending _-ma_. Thus _me-qetsime_ is apparently lit. *'we
(were) being
told'; with pa.t. 'were' implicit from the preceding verb _túlie_ 'came'. This
seems to be a
Qenya imperfect formation, indicating ongoing or uncompleted action in the past.

NE 'that' -- This conjuction is probably derived from the "general demonstrative
deictic
particle or stem _en-_" cited on pg. 55. QL (under "E with various additions")
also gives
demonstrative _en-_ 'that (by you)', _ena_ 'that by you', noun _en_ 'that by
you', and _ene!_
'look (at what you have)!' It is from a form similar to this last, _ene_, that
_ne_ probably
derives, with loss or suppression of the initial vowel.

HWA-TELPE 'his money' -- For _hwa-_ 'his' (also _fa-_), the unemphatic 3 sg.
masc.
possessive prefix, see pg. 54. QL gives _telpe_ 'silver', as well as _telpilin_
'silver
piece' (the suffix _-ilin_ is perhaps diminutive; cp. _pint, pimp-_ 'tail',
_pimpilin (d)_
'hanging tail, tassel, etc.' in QL s.v. PIPI- 'hang, trail').

IE-RAUTANÊMA OMPA 'had all been stolen' -- _ie-rautanêma_ [<< _nye-rautanêma_]
has
been discussed above. QL gives the verb _rauta-_ (pa.t. _râve_) 'chase, hunt,
pursue;
extirpate, exterminate', with cognates including _ravin_ 'fierce, savage (of
beasts)',
_rauste_ 'hunting, preying', and _rau_ 'lion' -- so apparently _rauta-_ means 
specifically
*'to rob by violence'. QL gives two other verbs glossed as 'steal', but both
imply theft via
stealth rather than violence: _naqa-_ 'steal' < NAQA- 'steal, take; get by
stealth,
unlawfully', and _pili-_ 'steal' < PILI(1) 'rob', with cognate _pilukka_
'secret, stealthy'.

QL s.v. OMO- 'every, all' gives an adj. _ompa_ 'each'; since in the sentence
this refers to
the collective noun _telpe_ 'money', it is glossed as 'all' (QL also lists
_ompi_ 'all, every',
"plur. adj. with pl. [noun]", i.e., _ompi_ is evidently the plural form of
_ompa_). In the
sentence, _ompa_ probably acts as an adverb modifying _ie-rautanêma_, hence its
placement after the verb rather than with _hwa-telpe_ 'his money' -- see the EQG
pg. 47,
which notes that an uninflected adjective may be used as an adverb.

VA HÚYO 'from him' -- The preposition _va_ 'from' is probably derived from the
QL root
AVA 'go away, depart, leave', whence _au_ 'away from'. The root VAHA was derived
from
AVA and had derivatives such as _vâ_ 'went' (pret.) and _vâ_(2) 'gone forth,
away'. The
emphatic nominative pronoun _húyo_ 'he' is used after the prep. _va_, as also in
_ka húyo_
(see above).

The syntax of the "more Qenyatic" alternative ending to the sentence is more
concise and
easily parsed:

YA QENSIE MELMUR *'who told us' -- For _qensie_ as the pa.t. of _qet-_ 'say,
speak, tell',
see the third paragraph in the discussion of ME-QETSIME above. _melmur_ is an
emphatic
dative, 1 pl. exclusive (pg. 53) -- thus _ya qensie melmur_ is *'who said to us'
or *'who
told us'.

NE IKSA TELPE RAUTANÊMA *that his own money had been stolen' -- Tolkien first
wrote
_hwa telpe_, then subsequently struck out _hwa_ and wrote _iksa_ below it.
_iksa_ is cited
in the EQG as a reflexive 3rd person adjective, so that _iksa telpe_ probably
means *'his
own money', referring back to _n-ner_ 'the man'. Presumably the non-reflexive
_hwa
telpe_ 'his money' allows for a degree of ambiguity and could refer to the theft
of some
other man's money.

Although the final form of the Qenyatic ending omits the verb 'to be' before the
participle
_rautanêma_ (parallel to _me-qetsime_), Tolkien did begin to write _ny_ (clearly
the start
of _nye_) immediately following _iksa telpe_ but struck this out before it was
completed
(an emendation not noted in the published text).

-- Patrick H. Wynne

"On the far (East) Horn of the Gates is a tall white tower. _Minas
Ithil_ now _Minas Morghul_... It had been called [_Neleg Thilim_ >]
_Neleglos_ [the Gleaming >] the White tooth." (excerpted from _The War
of the Ring_, p. 106)

This sketch (around 1944) shows us a little more how the story grew,
and some of the words evolved and disappeared. It is astonishing to
see that _Minas Ithil_ or _Minas Morgul_ got, at the point of writing
this passage, a third name: _Neleglos_ (the citation given above seems
to underpin this), but the whole sketch was (apparently immediately)
erased. Nonetheless, the two (apparently Noldorin) forms seem to be
worth being analysed:

_Neleg Thilim_: _neleg_ "tooth" is exactly stated under the stem
NÉL-EK- (V:376), while _Thilim_ *"gleam, shine silver, (?)very silvery
shining" belongs surely to THIL- (V:392) and is in adjectival
position, though being completely unattested elsewhere; the ending
_-im_ is very peculiar, it may be connected with _lim, rim_
"many"(V:369, as in _orodrim_ (ÔR-OT)) but that is very unlikely
(could it be a comparative ending, intensifying _Thil_?). We may
rather assume an alternative adjectival ending in _-im_.

_Neleglos_: consists of _neleg_ "tooth" (s. above) and mutated _los_
*"(snow-)white, snow" from original _gloss_ "snow, (snow-) white"
(GOLÓS, V:359, R:70). This word fits well together with
Tolkien's own translation "White tooth".

Philipp Marquart

A year has slipped by since the first Omentielva, and a
year from now Omentielva Tatya will be held. Registration
will soon open; meanwhile, find out more about the event
on the updated pages at www.omentielva.com <http://www.omentielva.com> .

See you in Antwerp 2007!

Dirk Trappers, Chairman of Omentielva Tatya
Beregond, Anders Stenström, Secretary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In Lambengolmor message 924
(<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/lambengolmor/message/924>),
Philipp Marquart wrote of N. _Thilim_ that:

>the ending _-im_ is very peculiar, it may be connected with _lim,
>rim_ "many"(V:369, as in _orodrim_ (ÔR-OT)) but that is very
>unlikely (could it be a comparative ending, intensifying _Thil_?).
>We may rather assume an alternative adjectival ending in _-im_.

Perhaps _-im_ is best explainable as being the cognate of Quenya
_-(i)ma_ or _-(i)me_. Compare the stem SIL- (variant of THIL-; V:385)
with derivatives _silimâ_ 'silver, shining white (adj.)' > Q. _silma_,
N. _*silef_. The latter form is theoretical and does not occur in Noldorin;
generally Sindarin and Noldorin do not show _-ef_, see "Quendi & Eldar":

"_Fíreb_ as compared with _Fírima_ shows the use of a different suffix,
[...] since the S equivalent of Q _-ima_ (*_-ef_) was not current." (XI:387)

I guess that Tolkien disliked the sound of _-ef_ and avoided it
(although it is a straightfoward etymological consequence). In the
given example he may have rejected the lenition of _m_, whatever
internal explanation may have stood behind this (lacking lenition  of
_m_ is known in the northern dialect of Sindarin, e.g. in the name
_Celegorm_).

There is also no a-affection, so I suppose _thilim_ derives from
_*thilimê_ 'silvery light' (cf. _silimê_ 'light of Silpion' (V:385))
and is put into genitive position - _Neleg Thilim_ *'a tooth of
silvery/gleaming light'. On the other hand forms without a-affection
sometimes occur as well, e.g. _celebrin_ (V:367), later changed to
_celebren_. This way, _thilim_ would be an adjective from _*thilimâ_,
a variant of _silimâ_.

Apparently Tolkien made up another solution later - we find _silivren_
in _The Lord of the Rings_, where a second ending _-ren_ seems to be
attached.


Roman Rausch

In VII:223 is a nice poem (written around August 1940) in which
the name _Nimrodel_, and its precedent forms, first appears. We have
_Linglorel_, _Inglorel_, _Nimladel_, _Nimlorel_, _Nimlothel_ >>
_Nimrodel_; note that the third and fourth forms were composed before
the song (cf. VII:222, note 17). Only the last forms were apparently
corrected while the other forms were allowed to stand. Via Google I
found a forum archive containing translations for some of these forms
written by a pseudonymous "Dark Lord Andúril" ("DLA")
<http://www.minastirith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?
ubb=print_topic;f=20;t=000140>; I shall note them at the end of each
word-discussion. My analysis is presented here in a more "compact"
manner than my previous posts: All the (suggested) elements of words,
or compounds (for that's what they primarly are), are given with the
meaning as far as known or reconstructable. To distinguish each
word-element every one of them is followed by the semicolon. Further
discussion follows regularly after that. I want to note that I have
used the same analysis style as Christopher Gilson did in his
discussion of "_Sí Quente Feanor_".

_Linglorel_: Cf. _lin[?n]_ "air, tune", V:369 LIN-(2); _glor-_,
_lor-_ *"gold" appearing "in names, as _Glorfindel_, ... N
_Galad-loriel_" cf. V:368 LÁWAR-, N GLÁWAR- ; *_-el_ might be the
feminine suffix from primitive form *_elle_ exhibited in
_galata-rîg-elle_ "lady with garland of sunlight" which is the
primitive form of _Galadriel_ (X:182, cf. sidenote below), cf. also
_Gilthoniel_ (R:72-3) or _Nimrodel_ (below).

If it is indeed N. _lhinn_/_lin-(?)_ we would see _glor-_ being
left unmutated, a phenomenon maybe also seen in _Ninglor_ *"golden
water[flower]" (UT:280-1); the initial consonant cluster GL in _glor_ is
apparently unchanged when suffixed to final -N-. However, we have to
consider another possible explanation for medial -NGL-. The
Etymologies provide us with very similiar forms _Inglor_, _Indlour_
and their primitive cognates _Indo-klâr_, _Indo-glaurê_ (ID-, V:361).
Thus, a change of medial -NDL- to -NGL- could also be very likely.
_Linglorel_ might be translated as *"woman of the golden tune".
"DLA" gives a weird translation "song of the golden elf? Q". First, it
is surely not a Q(u)enya form (given medial -NGL-), secondly there is no
hint that any word-element could be simply translated with "elf".

_Inglorel_: Cf. _în_ "year" s. V:400 YEN-, or _inn_, _ind_ "inner
thought, meaning, heart"; _glor-_ and *_-el_ see above.

Under the stem GENG-WÂ- we find "N. _gemb, gem_; cf. _ingem_
`year-sick' " [Author's note: < PE. *_în_ "year" + *_gengwâ_
"sick"] showing that bare -G- is retained after -N-. If that is also
the case here, the translation might be *"woman of the golden year".
On the other hand, under stem ID- we perceive _Inglor_ (in various
drafts an earlier name of Finrod; cf. X:93, 104), apparently a masculine
cognate to _Inglorel_. Suggesting that _Inglorel_ is indeed inspired
by _Inglor_ we could assume that it has to mean *"Woman of the
golden heart". "DLA" translates it with "Not-gold-star/elf? S"; I don't
know how he supposes that *_in_ could here be used for negation.

_Nimladel_: Cf.  _nimp, nim_ "pale, *white" (V:378, NIK-W-) often seen
in compounds as in _Nimdil-dor_ "Q. Taniqetil(de), High White Horn"
(V:378); _lad_ *"plain(?)" probably derived from LAT-, cf. also
_Tumladen_ "plain of Gondolin" (V:368) (Note that the GL gives a form
_lad_ "(1)level, smooth ..." (PE11:52) derived from stem LAHA or LA'A
(PE12:50)); *_-el_ see above.

Translation might be *"woman of the white valley". "DLA"
translates it as "White valley of stars S". It is not unthinkable that
*_-el_ could be derived from EL- (V:355) but I don't think it is here
the case, moreover in respect to Tolkien's translation of _Nimrodel_,
which surely implies that *_-el_ HAS to mean *"lady, woman". See also
discussion of _Nimrodel_ and sidenote on *_elle_.

_Nimlorel_: Cf. _nim, nimp_ above; _lor_ see above; *_-el_ see above.

Another compound consisting generally of components mentioned above.
Translation might be *"woman of the white gold". "DLA" suggests as
a possible translation "White dream of stars Q"; I don't think that we
have here a Q(u)enya word, though the word might be acceptable in
Q(u)enya phonology (the context here shows us clearly that Tolkien
intended to compose a Noldorin word). Moreover, there is no word
**_lor_ in Noldorin and  we rather find _ôl_ (LOS-, V:370) for "dream".

_Nimlothel_: Cf. _nim, nimp_ see above; _loth_ "flower" cf. V:370 LOT(H)
giving a similiar form _Nimloth_; *_-el_ see above.

Translation might be *"woman of the white flower". "DLA" supposes
"Blossom of stars S", leaving out _nim_ "white" and ignoring Tolkien's
translation for _Nimloth_ "white blossom" (_Silmarillion_ Appendix).

_Nimrodel_: Cf. _nim, nimp_ above; _groth, grod_ "cave" cf.
_Silmarillion_ Appendix entry _groth (grod)_; *_-el_ see above.

The _Silmarillion_ Appendix gives for _Nimrodel_ the translation "Lady
of the caves". Since _nim_ means "white" and _grod_ "cave" (here
mutated to weak _rod_) we are left to assume that ending *_-el_ has to
mean *"Lady, woman" as proposed above of _Linglorel_. A more
"accurate" translation of _Nimrodel_ is given in the index to
_Unfinished Tales_: "Lady of the White Grotto".

Sidenote on *_-elle_ :

I assume that *_-elle_ might be derived from stem SEL-D- (V:385). We
are informed that when _selde_, the (apparently) ultimate predecessor
of *_-elle_, is used in a compound there is "a change assisted by the
loss of _s_ in cpds. and patronymics". The example mentioned fits well
with the further statements made: "(_tindômiselde_, Q _Tindómerel_)"
(V:385). Yet, this is debatable since _selde_ means precisely
"daughter", making it hard to see how this can be used to have a
meaning like "Lady" in the exact case of *_-el_ in _Nimrodel_.

Philipp Marquart

Greetings all,

My friend Benjamin Babut and myself would like to present a new website
about Tolkien's languages we just released, entitled :  _Glaemscrafu -
Tolkien's linguistic cellar_.

Its purpose is to allow all kinds of interested people, advanced students as
well as newcomers, to taste and enjoy how Tolkien's invented languages look
and, especially, sound, by means of actual texts, presented, translated and
read aloud with MP3 files to download. A large selection of languages is to be
found: Quenya and Sindarin of course, but also their forerunners, Qenya and
Noldorin, together with lesser studied languages: Telerin, Adûnaic,  Khuzdul,
Black Speech, Valarin. We found it interesting to include too some samples  of
primary world languages that were of significance to Tolkien and influenced
him: Old English, Gothic, Old Norse, Finnish, Welsh and Latin.

In another part of the website, we give very short excerpts of Tolkien's own
records to illustrate how he himself pronounced many of the names that
appear in his works. It should be especially helpful to say them aloud
correctly, and will also give an idea of Tolkien's reading styles.

Finally, there are a few links to similar projects and a bibliography.
Though Glaemscrafu is not intended to be a _thorough_ study of each text, we
systematically list our sources at the end of each page in order to allow
everyone to check. Regarding the pronunciation, we tried to do our best
according to the documentation we gathered - but inevitably  some linguistic
habits of ours will have crept through. (Hence the interest of having several
websites featuring record with people from different linguistic backgrounds)

We wish to thank Petri Tikka, who helped us with the Finnish part of the
website, and Didier Willis for his support and encouragements.

The website is wholly bilingual in French and English. It is hosted as a
specialised wing by the Tolkien-related website JRRVF <http://jrrvf.com>.
Thanks also to its webmaster Cédric Fockeu for his hospitality!

The general URL for _Glaemscrafu_ is: <http://jrrvf.com/glaemscrafu>.

You can reach the English version of the homepage directly at :
<http://www.jrrvf.com/~glaemscrafu/texts/index-a.htm>

If you wish to contact us, please use the e-mail address of the website (at
the bottom of every page). Do not hesitate especially to tell us  about the
various typos that will inevitably remain despite proofreading.

We hope you will enjoy the visit !

Yours,
Bertrand Bellet

"It is told that in that feast of the Spring of Arda Tulkas espoused
_Lëa-vinya_, fairest of the maidens of Yavanna, and Vana robed her in
flowers that came then first to their opening; and she danced before
the Valar..." (Excerpted from "Morgoth's Ring" p. 67, note 18)

In 1958 Tolkien sat down to work on the "Annals of Aman" and there the
names of the _Vali_ were often altered. And indeed, we are informed
in note 18, pointing to the passage on page 53, that the ultimate
predecessor of _Nessa_ is _Lëa-vinya_ "Lëa the young".

_Lëa_: There are two possible stems from which _Lëa_ could be derived:
1) LAYA- (VT45:26), and 2) LÁYAK- (V:368).

Dissyllabic words exhibiting the use of –ea- are somewhat rare in our
corpus of Q(u)enya words. But there exist some specific examples which
could shed light on the matter of how the meaning of _Lëa_ could be
reconstructed. In V:349 we find stem ÁYAR-, AIR- (VT45:6) which gives
the derivates _ear (earen)_ and _aire (airen)_ letting us assume that
primitive *_áya_, *_ai_ becomes in Q(u)enya _ëa_, _ai_.

Another examples show a similiar pattern of derivation:
_leo_ "shade, shadow cast by any object" (V:354) with primitive
_daiô_(VT45:8), *_dayô_ (adding possible primitve development -ay- >
-e-); PE. _Phay-anâro_ "radiant sun" > _Feanáro_ (PHAY-, V:381)*.
Though we have to dismiss DAY- as a possible stem because of the
meaning (DAY- is associated with "darkness, shadow" and _Lëa_ has to
refer to something more joyful, hence the byname "the young") and
the lack of an –a- in the primitive form. In V:368 we find stem
LÁYAK-, giving for example _laiqa_ "green". Yet, this stem is
irritating because we perceive a final –k- which can't be easily
eliminated; but in VT45:26 the stem LAYA- was added in the margin
against LÁYAK- with derivative _laire_ "summer". I think it is very
possible that _Lëa_ has to derive from LAYA- (standing surely in
connexion to LÁYAK-) -- the meaning we'd get wouldn't be that far-
fetched, and it does not contradict the morphology of –aya- stem
types: PE. *_laya_ > _Lëa_ *"the summerlike, the young".

_vinya_: _vinya_ "young" (X:67).

*But note also that later drafts (concerning the etymology of _fëa_)
show that this conception had maybe changed over the years: "Quenya
_fëa_ (dissyllabic) is from older *_phaya_ ..." (X:349).

Philipp Marquart

Hello all!

In his _Early Quenya Grammar_, Tolkien presents the use of the
conjunction _mai_ 'if'. Unfortunately he does not translate one of the
example sentences (EQG:59):

_Mai ni-túlie, tu-tútiel_.

I would translate it in English as : "If I had come, they would have
come". But I am not a native English speaker. Any comment ?

[Sounds right to me. CFH]

I take this opportunity to ask "_mai_" a _Vinyar Tengwar_ or a _Parma_
is scheduled before the end of this year ? ;-)

[Actually, it's not clear to me that _mai_ can be used in the sense of
"whether" (which is proper to your question) as English "if" (now) can.

I can't speak for Chris Gilson, editor or _Parma_, but my intent is
certainly to try to get _VT_ 49 out by the end of the year, if I
can wrap up some other writing commitments in time to do so. CFH]

Namárie,

E. Kloczko

You know, I've felt guilty for the better part of a decade for
my unthinking and unauthorized posting of that snippet on
Usenet- especially since soon therafter the copyright-law war
erupted with the Salo/Star/Fauskanger axis. Fortunately it seems
that it hasn't spread that far, since even Arden appears to have
been unaware of it (although it has turned up in a couple of
online "encyclopedias").

In any event, it's out, and surely there would be no harm if Wayne
Hammond and Christina Scull were to use it, since they carry the
Imprimatur.

I suspect that _asea aranion/athelas_ is one of those Q-S pairs
that aren't literal translations. Now, I'm no linguist; but we
can at least be certain that _asea_ and _athe-_ are equivalent
elements, and, as Frederik points out, that the Quenya assumed
or omitted the leaf-element.   Or, viewed the other way around,
that the leaf-element was added by the Exiles when they formed
their Sindarin equivalent (acc. to the late note, the plant was
known to the medical loremasters of the Noldor- with no
indication whether the Sindar were aware of its properties, or
even if it was native to Middle-earth). The snippet's wording
has _asea_ regularly > _athe-_, "compounded with _-las_," which
to me suggests that the _-las_ element only entered with the
Sindarin conversion. Why would this be? Another note cited by
Wayne and Christina indicates that only the leaves were used,
which may be relevant.  Or perhaps the linguistic loremasters
found "athe" alone to be ugly?

[Tolkien wrote in his note on "Stress" in Section I of Appendix E
that words in which the stress falls on the third syllable from the
end -- e.g. _Denethor, Fëanor_ -- "are favoured in the Eldarin
languages, especially Quenya." It seems natural then that the
medical loremasters of the Noldor, whose native tongue was
Quenya, would expand _athe-_ to the more euphonious (not to
mention distinctive) _athelas_. PHW]

One might speculate whether "aranion" was a pre- or post-
Downfall Numenorean addition ("balm" > "kingsbalm"), since the
specific association of healing with the King appears to have
been theirs, not the Elves'.  This leads to yet another
question- whether Ad/CS _kingsfoil_ followed or in fact underlay
the hypothesised Num. addition of _aranion_ .

-- William Cloud Hicklin

>   I think no-one queries the translation *'of kings'. However,
in the  light of Tolkien's gloss on _athea_ (regularly > _asea_
after the  change of Q. _th_ > _s_ described in 'The Shibboleth
of Feanor'  [XII:331]), I'm not sure that the translation
*'leaf' should be  defended (and I don't think Arden said so,
either). I think that the  note on RC:183 is correct except for
the parenthesis, '(but if so,  _athelas_ = ''leaf-leaf'')',
since the attested etymological connection  between _athe-_ and
_asea_ does not imply that _athe-_ means 'leaf'. In  the note on
RC:580 ll. 2-3 from bottom, perhaps one should substitute
Tolkien's actual gloss ('beneficial') for 'leaf' (or simply omit
the  words 'leaf of kings')?
>
>   /Fredrik

Mellyn!

In Christie's sale November 15 (catalogue named _Valuable Printed
Books and Manuscripts_), lot 152 is an inscribed set of _The Lord of
the Rings_, which has belonged to Leslie Megahey, the producer of the
1968 BBC documentary "Tolkien in Oxford". The lot includes a letter
from Tolkien (20 February 1968), with a leaf on which Tolkien gives
tengwa versions of the caption "Tolkien in Oxford" and a translation
of this, apparently to Quenya. The translation seems to me to read
_arkastar mondósaresse_.

The inscription in the book is a version of the "Elen síla" phrase,
in which the word _lúmenna_ was left out and then added above the
line, an expansive insertion mark showing where it should go.

To inspect the material, search for "Tolkien" on Christie's
website. Clicking on "Lot details" will bring up a larger image and
the full description. Clicking on that image will bring up a third
one, in more or less readable size.

Meneg suilaid,

Beregond

[The URL of Christie's home page is:
http://www.christies.com/home_page/home_page.asp
-- PHW]

Thanks to Anders for passing along notice of this very interesting
letter!

I can add one bit of information not mentioned in the exhibit
catalogue, which is that the accompanying copy of _The Fellowship of
the Ring_, inscribed by Tolkien (in _tengwar_) with "_elen síla
lúmenna omentielvo_" (this was 1968, so the change from inclusive _-
lmo_ to _-lvo_ had been made some years ago), appears to be the very
copy that Tolkien is shown inscribing in the "Tolkin in Oxford"
documentary itself. Although I've never seen that documentary, parts
of it were excerpted for the 1996 documentary (filmed in 1992),
"J.R.R.T.: A Film Portrait of J.R.R. Tolkien", and it includes part
of this scene, showing Tolkien beginning the inscription, reaching
_omentielvo_ and realizing he's left out _lúmenn'_, saying something
like "Oh, I've made a mistake, haven't I?", and then inserting
_lúmenna_ above the line.

Regarding the letter with the two _tengwar_ inscriptions, A "Tolkien
in Oxford" and B "_arcastar mondósaresse_" (<< _arkastar_):

The note Tolkien wrote above the second inscription appears to read:

"in Elvish language [? script]"

The note in green at the bottom of the sheet appears to read:

"[?Shown over] some explanations. A is a transliteration of English,
[?that thus] happens not to be very decorative [?since lacking] the [?
<a-_tehta_> = a]. B is a translation into Elvish (Quenya)"

The final note, in black, reads:

"NB the vowel signs i, e, a, o, u <corresponding _tehta_ above each
vowel> are placed _after_ the consonant which they follow in speech."

I was also going to provide some initial thoughts on the two new Quenya
words, Roman Rausch's message came in as I was writing them, so I'll just
add a few points to his comments.

>_arcastar mondósaresse_

Very interesting! I cannot resist analyzing this right away:

_mondósaresse_ 'in Oxford'

In Letter no.342 Tolkien gives "the elvish word for 'bull'" as _mundo_
(apparently in Quenya), so that one can identify _mondo_ 'ox' here.
An element 'ford, crossing' would be then expected to follow and
indeed _-sar-_ can be related to THAR- 'across, beyond' (V:392), also
_thar-_ 'athwart, across' in the _Silmarillion_ glossary with _Tharbad_
< _thara-pata_ 'crossway'.

[Note also numerous Q. words in _sar-_ having to do with stones or
stoniness, as _sarne_ 'stony place' < SAR- (V:385, VT46:12). CFH]

The long _-ó-_ seems to suggest that one should isolate _#ósar(e)_
'ford', rather than just _#sar(e)_ with the prefix _ó-_ 'used in words
describing the meeting, junction, or union of two things or persons,
or of two groups thought of as units' (XI:367); and _-s-_ < _th_ would
naturally resist rhotacism here.

The ending _-sse_ is of course locative, while the vowel _-e-_ before
it may belong to the preceding word (#_ósare-sse_) or just link the
ending to it (#_ósar-e-sse_).

_arcastar_ 'Tolkien'

Tolkien's name is an anglicization of _Tollkiehn_ , German _tollkühn_
'foolhardy, reckless, desperately brave' (compare Letter no.165),
containing _toll_ 'insane, mad, wild' and _kühn_ 'brave'. A more or
less literal translation into English Tolkien himself also made, was
'Rashbold' (IX:151).

I would analyze the Quenya word as _*arca-star_.

The initial element _arca-_ looks similar to Q _arauka_ 'swift,
rushing' (PE12:34) from RAVA or RAWA (PE12:79) with many derivatives
for chase, running, hunting, fierceness; also _rauka_ = _arauka_ 'swift'.
But of course a diphthong cannot be syncopated, so that one has to
assume a different derivation from a changed or parallel root, e.g. <
_*araka_ < (A)RAK- (?); cf. Q _narka_ 'to rend' from NÁRAK- 'tear, rend
(tr. and intr.)' (V:374, VT45:37).

The latter element _-star_ seems to be related to STAR- 'stiff'
(V:388), with _st_ preserved medially. Although this stem yields words
for grass only — Q _sara_ 'stiff, dry grass, bent', N _thâr_ 'stiff
grass' and so on — there is a different root TÁRAG- 'tough, stiff'
producing Q _tarya_ 'tough, stiff' and N. _tarias_ 'stiffness, toughness,
difficulty', _tarlanc_'stiff-necked, obstinate' with reference to more
abstract meanings. Hence, _arcastar_ would be something like
*'rushing [and] stiff-necked'.

[I like your analysis, though I think _-star_ as 'stiff' (without any
reference to necks) is a fine rendering of the sense of 'hardy' in
'foolhardy', both as physically 'hard, tough' and as metaphorically
'unyielding, resolute'. CFH]

Roman Rausch

On Oct 27, 2006, at 11:06 AM, Carl F. Hostetter wrote:

> The final note, in black, reads:
>
> "NB the vowel signs i, e, a, o, u <corresponding _tehta_ above each
> vowel> are placed _after_ the consonant which they follow in speech."

That should read "placed _above_ the consonant", of course; sorry for
the typo.

Carl

--- In lambengolmor@yahoogroups.com, "Roman Rausch" <aranwe@...> wrote,
regarding _arcastar_ 'Tolkien':

> The latter element _-star_ seems to be related to STAR- 'stiff'
> (V:388), with _st_ preserved medially.

What about connecting _-(a)sta-r_ with Tulkas's title: _Astaldo_
'The Valiant'?

In my humble opinion the second element in the name _Mondósar(e)_
'Oxford' is derived from the stem SAR-. Look at the tengwa _silmë_
(and not _thúlë_). It can have the meaning 'hard' (as in the OED
definition of HARD (n.): 'Hard or firm ground').

Cheers,

Richard Derdzinski

Roman Rausch wrote:

>In Letter no.342 Tolkien gives "the elvish word for 'bull'" as
_mundo_ (apparently in Quenya), so that one can identify
_mondo_ 'ox' here.

_Mundo_ can hardly be anything but Quenya. Its CE etymon could
be *_mundô_ or better *_mundu_ with a short "male" _-u_ element.
Still the stem is not stated in the published corpus : could be
?MUD- or ?MUN-.

[Etym. gives MBUD- 'project', > *_mbundu_ > Q. _mundo_ 'snout,
nose, cape'; perhaps _mundo_ 'bull' is a later conception of this
root and its derivatives. Note that Etym. _mundo_ has 'cape' as
one of its meanings -- a much later word for 'cape (of land)' is
Q. _nortil_ (VT47:28), in which the final element is < TIL 'point',
whence also Q. _tilde_ 'spike, horn' and _Tilion_ 'the Horned'
(Etym. s.v. TIL-). So perhaps Tolkien later imagined MBUD-
'project' > Q. _mundo_ 'animal with (projecting) horns, a bull'?
It should also be noted that GL has _mû_ 'ox', _mûs_ 'cow' etc.,
clearly cognate with Gn. _mul-, mum_ 'low, bellow'; if a root
*MU- 'low, bellow' survived, then perhaps later Q. _mundo_ is
related, maybe *'bellower' with agentive ending _-ndo_ as in
_colindo_ 'bearer' (LR:953), _runando_ 'redeemer' (VT44:17),
etc. -- PHW]

The change of internal u > o to show sex (or rather the lack of it)
bull > ox, is quite unexplained, or is it ?

[I would think that despite the similarity, *_mondo_ 'ox' must be
etymologically distinct from _mundo_ 'bull', though undoubtedly
the form of one suggested the other. The Etymologies gives the
base MÔ- with derivatives Q. _mól_ 'slave, thrall' and _móta-_
'labour, toil', so perhaps *_mondo_ 'ox' is from MÔ- + agentive
_-ndo_, with the sense 'laborer, draught-animal'? -- PHW]

The long _-ó-_ could come from o+a ; cf. Finwe's name _Ñoldóran_
'King of the Ñoldor' < _Ñoldo_ + _aran_ (XII:343).
Then _mondósaresse_ would be *_mondo-asaresse_ with Q.
*_asare_ "ford". But that does not satisfy me either. In Noldorin we
have a second element in _athrad_ < _ath-rad_ "ford". The element
_-rad_ < RAT- 'walk' is missing in Q *_asare_ (< ? *_athare_).
Furthermore in Etym. it is stated that "N prefix _ath-_ on both sides,
across, is probably related" which seems to imply that that "ath-"
was not present in Q. and there is NO word for "ford" Etym.

And making it _ó-atha-r(e)_, is not very logical either. _Ath-_ is
a prefix and two prefixes are not added to make a word in our
corpus of Q. We need a meaningful "stem" here. And how to
account for the ending -r(e) then anyway ?

More questions than answers, as usual... ;-)

Namárië,

Edouard Kloczko

Sindacollo is according to Christopher Tolkien one of the names
of Elu-thingol in Quenya in his "Silmarillion" (1977).
But in HOME the name is always spelled _Sindicollo_; see HOME XII
- Index.

The "normal" form of the Q. adjective according to "Quendi and
Eldar" (XI:384) is _sinde/thinde_, not _sinda_, which is a
personalised form of that adj. (cf. "Sindar : the name (…) was
derived from (…) _sinde_" ibidem), being the name given to certain
Elves, even through _sinda_ is used as an adj. in the Namárie
elegy, cf. "sinda-noriello".

So _Sindacollo_ is not grammatically wrong in Q. as far as we can
see. ;-)

With the name Q. _Melyanna_, this _Sindacollo_ is the last piece of
information in the Appendix of "The Silmarillion" (1977) that we cannot
pinpoint to a precise source in one of JRR Tolkien's linguistic writings.

Any chance of seeing this piece untangled in a future Vinyar
Tengwar?

[I will keep an eye out for an attestation of either of these forms in
the mss., and will note it here if I succeed in finding them. -- PHW]

Namárië,

E. Kloczko

Just a minor correction:

For me the first word of the Elvish greeting (inscribed by Tolkien in
the copy of _The Fellowship of the Ring_ being auctioned) reads neither
"_elen_" nor "_elem_", as stated on the DTS site, but in fact "_elme_",
but I will leave it to the Quenya experts to judge if this may have been
Tolkien's intention or just a double mistake.

Regards,
Florian Dombach

[You are quite correct that the first word is actually written as
"_elme_". I have no doubt that this was a mistake on Tolkien's
part, not intentional. As I mentioned previously, Tolkien was
making this inscription for the cameras, and not at his leisure,
accounting for the missed and subsequently inserted "_lúmenna_"
and, no doubt, this misspelling as well. CFH]

--- In lambengolmor@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Derdzinski"
<galadhorn@...> wrote:

>What about connecting _-(a)sta-r_ with Tulkas's title: _Astaldo_
>'The Valiant'?

I believe that _Astaldo_ should be rather related to STÁLAG- with
primitive _stalga_ 'stalwart, steady, firm', N _thalion_ 'hero,
dauntless man' (V:388) and so on. Thus: _*a-stal-do_ with _-do_ as
e.g. in _Hildor_ 'followers' from KHILI 'follow' (XI:387).

(Analyzing the name as _*a-sta-ldo_ one runs into several problems - a
root *(A)SAT(A)- 'valiant' is needed, but not attested; just as the
personal ending _-ldo_, if I do not overlook anything.)

>In my humble opinion the second element in the name _Mondósar(e)_
>'Oxford' is derived from the stem SAR-. Look at the tengwa _silmë_
>(and not _thúlë_). It can have the meaning 'hard' (as in the OED
>definition of HARD (n.): 'Hard or firm ground').

In the "_Namárie_" calligraphy in _The Road Goes Ever On_ we encounter
_sindanóriello_ and _hísie_, both written with a _silme_, although
deriving from THIN- (V:392) and KHITH- 'mist, fog' (V:364).

And if *_Mondósar(e)_ contains SAR-, then what about rhotacism? We
know a rule that it did not occur if _s_ was followed by the stressed
vowel (VT44:20), which is the case in _Mondósaresse_, but not in the
deduced basic form *_Mondósar(e)_.

In its declination stress would sometimes lie before and sometimes
after _-s-_.

The change _-sar-_ > _-rar-_ does not seem euphonious here and it may
have been the (external) reason to avoid SAR-.

Besides, the connection beween _sar-_ *'hard ground' and 'ford'
appears somewhat vague to me, while THAR- is directly attested in
another name of a ford.

[The connection with SAR-, if there is one, would I think be to the
various derivatives connoting or related to stones or stoniness, fords
often being made of gravel or other agglomerated stones. Note
S. _Sarn-athrad_ 'Stony-ford' (LR:172, RC:163). CFH]

Roman Rausch

EQG:74 the accustaive plural of _lama_ is given as LAMIN
instead of LAMNIN; cf. EQG:44.

[This should indeed read LAMNIN, not **LAMIN. Thanks for
catching this! CFH]

EQG:75 VALINÔR (printed with a macron). Should this be
VALINO(R (with a short mark onver the o)?

[No, the macron is in the original and correct as published. CFH]

Namárië,

E. Kloczko

Carl F. Hostetter wrote:

> The note in green at the bottom of the sheet appears to read:
>
> "[?Shown over] some explanations. A is a transliteration of English,
> [?that thus] happens not to be very decorative [?since lacking] the [?
> <a-_tehta_> = a]. B is a translation into Elvish (Quenya)"

     I read the first line and a half in this way:

"Here {or "Above"?} are some specimens. A is a transliteration
of English. But this happens "

[Aha! I think you've go it. CFH]

     With some luck, the reproduction in the printed catalogue is
large enough to allow a more certain reading.

	 Suilad,

		 Beregond

It has long appeared to me that as printed in _The
Peoples of Middle-earth_ (XII:295-320), the essay 'Of
Dwarves and Men' is strangely circular in disposition.
Christopher Tolkien notes that it 'takes up in the
middle of a sentence in a passage discussing knowledge
of the Common Speech' -- more specifically, discussing
the Common Speech as a means for interspecial
communication -- and the text ends (without a full
stop) in the middle of a discussion of the Common
Speech; more specifically, with a sentence on the
Common Speech as a means for interspecial
communication.

Furthermore, Christopher Tolkien points to a break in
the essay where, after three and a half pages of
manuscript, the typescript draft begins (XII:320 n.
9). Naturally one wonders whether the manuscript pages
were, in fact, originally the last pages of a draft
version of the essay, moved to the beginning at some
later time. (There could be a simple explanation to
why this was done. Having coverered the topics of the
Atani and their languages, the Drúedain, the
Halflings, Faramir's 'Middle Men', and the lingua
franca, Tolkien may have found himself returning to
the Dwarves: 'the Dwarves however were a special
case'. If this was so, then he may have decided that
the sections on the Dwarves were better kept together
and so moved the last pages. This would also explain
why no subtitle 'I' appears [cf. XII:324 n. 34], if
the essay having been so arranged never was retyped.)

However, when queried about the original documents
Christopher Tolkien kindly responded that the first
typescript words (XII:298 line 2, 'Only occasionally
...') follow in the same line of text, so to speak, as
the last manuscript words 'in the Fëanorian Script' in
such a way as to show very clearly that the author
simply laid down his pen at that point and turned to
his typewriter.

Nevertheless, I wonder whether more could be said on
the matter. If the three and a half manuscript pages
-- except, perhaps, for the last (few) sentence(s)? --
originally comprised the end of the text, then the
essay would have opened with a discussion of the use
of runes in the Book of Mazarbul and on Balin's Tomb
-- and this would agree with Tolkien's note on the
covering page that the essay arose 'from consideration
of the Book of Mazarbul' (XII:295).

In my opinion the typescript part on Dwarven runes
(XII:298-301), where several phrases were later struck
out and corrected, definitely has the appearance of a
rough draft, while the section that follows
('Relations of the Longbeard Dwarves and Men') seems
more finished. One deleted note from the first part
was taken up almost verbatim in the latter (see
XII:300 n. 21 and cf. the last paragraph on XII:302).
Perhaps the essay was pieced together of several
separate texts, some of them rewritten from (partly)
lost drafts, all written more or less at the same
time?

There is another curious fact about the essay as
printed. After the section on the relations of the
Longbeards and Men, ending with a paragraph on what
came to pass in the Second Age (XII:304-5), there
follows a paragraph on change in the language of the
Eldar in Middle-earth (as opposed to that of the Eldar
in Valinor), as seen by Elvish loremasters. This
paragraph seems to have virtually nothing to do with
what precedes it, and it is followed by a clear break
(where later the subtitle 'The Atani and their
Languages' was pencilled in). Could it be that the
part on the Atani and their languages was once
preceded by a text on the Elves and their languages,
i.e. on Quenya and Sindarin, and that the stray
paragraph is a remnant of this text? In any case I
think it possible that Tolkien bundled together a text
that he had written on the Atani with one or more
texts on the Longbeard Dwarves to form an essay 'Of
Dwarves and Men', but perhaps we will never know
exactly which the constituent parts originally were.

I note with interest though that the upcoming _J.R.R.
Tolkien Companion and Guide_ by Hammond & Scull
contains a section entitled 'Of Dwarves and Men'
(http://bcn.net/~whammond/Guide topic list.doc).
Perhaps we will find some answers there?

/Fredrik Ström

At 06:01 AM 10/28/06, Edouard Kloczko wrote:

>The long _-ó-_ could come from o+a ; cf. Finwe's name _Ñoldóran_
>'King of the Ñoldor' < _Ñoldo_ + _aran_ (XII:343).
>Then _mondósaresse_ would be *_mondo-asaresse_ with Q.
>*_asare_ "ford". But that does not satisfy me either. In Noldorin we
>have a second element in _athrad_ < _ath-rad_ "ford". The element
>_-rad_ < RAT- 'walk' is missing in Q *_asare_ (< ? *_athare_).
>Furthermore in Etym. it is stated that "N prefix _ath-_ on both sides,
>across, is probably related" which seems to imply that that "ath-"
>was not present in Q. and there is NO word for "ford" Etym.

*_asare-_ could be from THAR- with prefixed root vowel as in _anar_,
_isil_, _Aman_. In the absence of a case ending one would expect the name
to appear as *_Mondósar_.

Jerome Colburn
jcolburn@...
blog: http://www.uniquesupport.net/Lists/Jerome%20Colburn/View%20Items.htm

_I ner eldalluva_ EQG:47 and 79 is translated "The man from the
Elves". This translation is not clear for me. Does it mean "That
Elvish Man", e.g. the usual way of saying (or ? a formal way) "A
male Elf", because the adj. _Eldarin_ could not be applied to
persons ? Any thought ?

Namárië,

Edouard Kloczko

[The only real clue we have is that _-lluva_ is the adjectival
form of the ablative suffix _-llo_ 'from, out of', as in _kiryallo_
'from on board', _kallo_ 'from the top (of)', etc. We can only
assume that _eldalluva_ would be used in those contexts in
which the literal meaning 'from the Elves, out of the Elves' would
make sense or be applicable -- for example, _i ner eldalluva_
might appropriately refer to an emissary sent by the Elves in
the context of a meeting ("The man from the Elves raised several
objections before the council"). -- PHW]

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