Skip to search.
leanagile · Lean Agile

Group Information

  • Members: 1445
  • Category: Software
  • Founded: May 7, 2007
  • Language: English
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Hear how Yahoo! Groups has changed the lives of others. Take me there.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Is a Backlog Wasteful?   Message List  
Reply Message #332 of 6311 |
RE: [leanagilescrum] Is a Backlog Wasteful?

The problem with a backlog (as I see it) is that a backlog tends to keep different organizations from having an honest discussion about what the capacity (velocity) of the development organization shows is possible vs. what the requesting organization wants done.  If you don’t engage in a dialog, then expectations are not aligned, transparency is compromised, and distrust can arise between organizations.  Thus I recommend that a LIMITED backlog equivalent to a couple or three cycles of work is adequate for making sure there is always something to do and it is the current highest priority work.  One way to discover the appropriate length of this queue is to relentlessly remove the work that has an age older than the average age of work that is getting through the queue.  Those items have fallen to the bottom of the queue and will very likely never get done.  Another way to discover how short a queue can be is to keep on shortening it relentlessly until it is clear that it can’t be any shorter.  Remember, the length of a queue is the primary determinant of how long it takes work to get through your system, unless you have a dead space at the bottom of the queue – in which case – why bother to have that work in the queue in the first place?

 

The limited queue approach works in a maintenance and request-based world, but in a product development world, the objective in is different, so the work queue will operate a bit differently.  In product development, there will be a product roadmap which lays out the general capabilities the product must have along a timeline (roughly equivalent to a release plan).  The game in this environment is to TIMEBOX  rather than to SCOPEBOX capabilities – thus a milestone-based release plan drives the work queue.  The idea is to flesh out the details of each timeboxed delivery as close to the delivery milestone as possible, to ALWAYS meet the delivery date / milestone / timebox, and not to engage too heavily in wishful thinking about what scope can fit into each timebox.  The way to determine here if your backlog has gotten too long or too detailed too soon is to determine what % of so-called “requirements” are changed from the time they are specified until the system is implemented. This is often called requirements “churn”.  If this churn is greater than – say – 10%, then the detailed specifications are being done too soon.

 

Mary Poppendieck

952-934-7998

www@...

Author of: Lean Software Development & Implementing Lean Software Development

 

From: leanagilescrum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:leanagilescrum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Starr
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:23 PM
To: leanagilescrum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [leanagilescrum] Is a Backlog Wasteful?

 

I have been wondering this for awhile. Is a backlog as described in
Scrum inherently wasteful? Certeinly it is a work queue. Certeinly it
is a pile of work waiting to move.

Is it simply the least wasteful form of work specifcation we can
derive? That sounds like Churchill's democracy; The worst form of
government unless compared to all others.

What reasonable alternative works as well or better?



Fri Oct 5, 2007 5:18 pm

mpoppendieck
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Message #332 of 6311 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

I have been wondering this for awhile. Is a backlog as described in Scrum inherently wasteful? Certeinly it is a work queue. Certeinly it is a pile of work...
David Starr
davidmstarr Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
10:23 pm

... Work put into the product backlog is inventory. It is wasteful. But it may be necessary work to mitigate/manage risk. This is not inconsistent with...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
1:35 am

(responding to Alan) ... I suspect they just put the backlog on somebody else's desk? Paul Oldfield Capgemini...
paul_oldfield_ams
paul_oldfiel... Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
3:09 pm

Hi there, I'm helping to moderate the kanbandev group, and wanted to reply with my perspective, however accurate it may not be. It is interesting to me that...
Aaron Sanders
aremsan Offline Send Email
Oct 7, 2007
8:51 pm

The problem with a backlog (as I see it) is that a backlog tends to keep different organizations from having an honest discussion about what the capacity...
Mary Poppendieck
mpoppendieck Offline Send Email
Oct 5, 2007
5:28 pm

The most useful thing about a backlog from my experience is to start to reduce the large requirements documents down to a more manageable and prioritized list...
gabrielleagile Offline Send Email Oct 6, 2007
8:21 pm

These are all great replies and I thank you for your time and interest. Certeinly a backlog is waste in the strictest sense of it being a queue, but it has...
David Starr
davidmstarr Offline Send Email
Oct 10, 2007
6:32 am

I'm somewhat confused about this thread. Backlog -- work product that has been promised and has yet to be delivered -- is not waste. It is a necessary part...
Hal Macomber
halmac3 Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
1:14 pm

... that ... is a ... that we ... I should have been clearer in my answer earlier. I meant work done on the backlog to prioritize things is indirect waste and...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
1:21 pm

Hello, Alan. On Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 9:21:24 AM, you ... I don't understand this. Let me ask some questions that will highlight what I'm not...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
2:11 pm

... They work on as many things as a normal Scrum project does. They just do their iteration planning by the product managers specifying what they want done...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
2:35 pm

(responding to Alan) ... You say this to Ron? Cruel! Okay, they may have had a change of heart there ;-) I know at least one regular poster wishes he still...
paul_oldfield_ams
paul_oldfiel... Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
2:49 pm

Hey, I never said I was a nice guy! ;) Alan Shalloway, CEO, Sr. Consultant Net Objectives, Gold Level Sponsor of Agile 2007. 425-269-8991 Integrating people,...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
3:11 pm

(raises hand) Principles of Lean and Agile both speak to the idea of collaboration and that all of is us smarter than any one of us. I am so glad that Alan...
Aaron Sanders
aremsan Offline Send Email
Oct 13, 2007
6:54 am

So backlog is not waste. It's the inventory of work-in-process that is waste. In the creative communities of software development and design we have a mental...
Hal Macomber
halmac3 Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
2:29 pm

... If I ... development ... I agree with this statement. However, I have seen many Scrum teams that don't pay attention to Lean Principles (I call this Fat ...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
2:42 pm

It seems we all agree on this idea of minimizing investment in the backlog. I remember during my Scrummaster class from Jeff that he advocated the ability for...
David Starr
davidmstarr Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
3:28 pm

(responding to David) ... Good list. One extra addition that seems useful - break down the 'higher number' features into smaller ones just before they go into...
paul_oldfield_ams
paul_oldfiel... Offline Send Email
Oct 12, 2007
7:14 am

In Lean Product Development, waste is defined as any activity that does not create Hardware/Software/Knowledge. I believe that a properly managed product...
justincorrydublin
justincorryd... Offline Send Email
Oct 12, 2007
1:58 pm

... does ... Actually, I think the definition is it is waste if it doesn't create value. Value may be product to the customer or knowledge about how to build...
Alan Shalloway
alshalloway Offline Send Email
Oct 12, 2007
2:08 pm

... I may be splitting hairs, here, but I think these statements are contradictory. In my mind, the backlog *is* work-in-process, because someone had to do...
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
3:08 pm

(responding to George) ... I think you're right. I like Mary Poppendieck's (or whoever originated the idea) "Concept to Cash" - the idea that the whole value...
paul_oldfield_ams
paul_oldfiel... Offline Send Email
Oct 11, 2007
3:18 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines NEW - Help