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I think if you read shook's managing to learn you see something different than the impression the blog gives.
Many in Germany in the 20th century thought differently than the management, as the people in Iran do today. Organizations control behavior mostly through some sort of carrot/stick incentive and modeled behaviors. Perhaps organizations like GM should not be expected to go on perpetually? What economic organizations have lasted as long?
Most large organizations tend to dysfunction unless they had to weather a regular series of crises that caused them to regularly re-examine and change their approach. My experience in large profitable companies is that the people who have started and climbed the ladder to become executives in thode companies are often very focused on the politics and personal ambition while remaining a very long way from their real customers. They are excellent at fighting internal turf battles, and their energy goes there, while improving the organization for the benefit of the customer is not on the agenda, or delegated to others. A crises such as our current one reveal their inability to react effectively, leaving the organization in a perilous state. However they do start to focus more on what really matters.
An author perhaps more suited to the scandanaivian sensibility is Peter Senge, author of the fifth disciple.
Cheers,
Robin.
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:07 PM, ejmull <ejmull@...> wrote:
Thanks so much Mary. I hope the list was prioritized since that was a
big batch ;-)
Robin, I agree with John Shook. I have asked myself the same question
several times without coming up with an answer I can trust. Is it a
trait of the human race that when grouped together and being forced to
walk off a cliff nobody in the group can see the escape route? Common
sence seem not so common in large organizations.
Is this a bad side of swarming theory? Is it personal turf protection or
about the huge amount of wishful thinking that people seem to have
hard-wired?
For me as a Swede I react on shook's focus on putting responsibility on
the shoulders of the CEO. I think we have a more distributed sence of
responsibility in our management culture.
I guess it is much about:
Great managers selects a Great workforce and takes Great decisions which
creates a Great culture which breeds Great managers... (and loop)
You could probably see this as a value flow with a huge risk of
variation at each step because the process is made of human actions. If
one of the steps changes from Great to Poor then you are in a lot of
trouble because it takes a long time to recover even if you manage to
break the bad spiral.
Could we not automate the process to get it more predictable? Oh cr*p, a
company named Cyberdyne Systems have the patent for that.
Regards
Emil
--- In leandevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Poppendieck" <mary@...>
wrote:> <http://www.poppendieck.com> www.poppendieck.com
>
> My favorite management writer is Jeffry Pfeffer. Two of his books that
I
> really like were co-authored with Robert Sutton. These are:
>
> The Knowing-Doing Gap (2000)
>
> Hard Facts, Dangerous Half-Truths, & Total Nonsense (2006)
>
>
>
> He also co-authored the book Hidden Value (2000) with Charles O'Reily,
which
> discusses the practices you find in well-managed companies.
>
>
>
> Pfeffer's latest book, What were They Thinking? (2007), is also
delightful.
>
>
>
> I also have a couple of his earlier books - Managing with Power (1994)
and
> The Human Equation (1996) -these have his foundation ideas behind
managing
> and compensating people.
>
>
>
> Another favorite management writer is John Shook, especially his book
> Managing to Learn (2008). His blog is at http://www.lean.org/shook/
(you may
> need to register).
>
>
>
> Finally, I like Peter Scholtes books, especially The Leader's Handbook
> (1997), but also The Team Handbook (2003). This book is in its 3rd
edition,
> it was originally published in 1988.
>
>
>
> Mary Poppendieck
>
> 952-934-7998
>> <mailto:leandevelopment%40yahoogroups.com> , Chakravarthy R
>
> Author of: Lean Software Development & Implementing Lean Software
> Development
>
>
>
> From: leandevelopment@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:leandevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ejmull
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:07 PM
> To: leandevelopment@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Management value proposition was Re: [leandevelopment] Re:
FW:
> Sailing a Straight Course in a Time of Variances
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi guys, I know there are one billion books on management but do you
> have some tips on books related to management models and/or efficient
> teamwork/team leadership?
>
> Regards
>
> Emil
>
> --- In leandevelopment@yahoogroups.com> > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Mary Poppendieck mary@...:
> chakravarthy.rajagopalan@ wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Robin, Mary , George for your replies.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chak.
> >> <mailto:leandevelopment%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Chak,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Since you are in India, I would not expect that an American model
of
> > > self-organized teams would be the only model of leadership that
you
> might
> > > consider. Here are some additional successful models (and these
are
> not the
> > > only ones):
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) The open source model. In this model, the kernel of capability
is
> > > tightly controlled and managed by a core - often self-managed
> - group. In
> > > this model, the main role of management is to figure out how to
> create an
> > > environment in which people are motivated to contribute to the
> commons. The
> > > best managers are the ones who know how to organize volunteer
> efforts.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) The military model. In this model, small units have appointed
> > > leaders who know that "you can't manage men into battle, you
> have to lead
> > > them". Good small unit leaders are deeply committed to the
> people in the
> > > unit, to keeping them safe, to sharing the purpose of the mission,
> etc. The
> > > senior leaders communicate "command intend" and the small
> unit leaders -
> > > often in consultation with the members of the unit- make local
> decisions to
> > > achieve the command intent.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 3) The reciprocity model. In this model, people contribute their
> > > best efforts to the company because they feel the company will
take
> care of
> > > them over time and help them reach their personal goals. When this
> model is
> > > operative, people respond to a line manager who works to develop
the
> full
> > > potential of every employee. Not a good model for India, because
> this model
> > > is based on long term, reciprocating relationships.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In every case, good leadership means figuring out what motivates
> front-line
> > > people to contribute their best efforts, and aligning those
efforts
> (and
> > > associated motivation) with the short and long term good of the
> larger
> > > organization or community. This is not always going to mean
> self-organizing
> > > teams, which are mainly a reaction to bad management practices
> (practices
> > > which do not respect the workers).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mary Poppendieck
> > >
> > > 952-934-7998
> > >
> > > www.poppendieck.com
> > >
> > > Author of: Lean Software Development & Implementing Lean Software
> > > Development
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* leandevelopment@yahoogroups.com
> > > leandevelopment@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:leandevelopment%40yahoogroups.com> ] *On Behalf Of *Robin > <mailto:leandevelopment%40yahoogroups.com><http://www.estherderby.com/weblog/2009/06/when-to-stand-back-when-to-st\
> > > *Subject:* Management value proposition was Re: [leandevelopment]
> Re: FW:
> > > Sailing a Straight Course in a Time of Variances
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Chak,
> > >
> > > These are great questions. George has pointed you to some great
> resources
> > > from Esther Derby on self organizing teams, Esther is an authority
> in this
> > > space so I recommend you start there.
> > >
> > > Let's talk about the manager value proposition for a moment.
> > >
> > > Jack Welch, CEO of GE would regularly assign Vice Presidents to
> various
> > > plants and facilities to make improvements. He was very clear
about
> one
> > > thing with all of them - make yourself redundant. If you are still
> doing the
> > > same job in two years I will fire you. He saw management's role as
> system's
> > > thinkers who could go in, analyze the system, find the urgent
things
> that
> > > needed fixing and work within the organization to fix them. This
> philosophy
> > > fed the growth of Six Sigma in GE, because it gave a toolset that
> could be
> > > used across plants/products/markets by managers to analyze a
> manufacturing
> > > system, find issues and make improvements.
> > >
> > > I view a manager's most effective role as someone who is
continually
> > > looking for opportunities to improve the system in which people
work
> so that
> > > it is more effective for the manager, their co-workers, and the
> customer.
> > > Just as the teams should continually learn about the tools and
> business
> > > domain to deliver a quality product, an effective manager will
also
> be
> > > reaching for ideas/tools that make them more effective in
improving
> the
> > > system. In this again we see GE's leadership. GE setup GE
University
> with
> > > tough courses that challenged managers with new ideas (like Six
> Sigma). They
> > > were expected to apply these ideas in their organizations. Most of
> us aren't
> > > lucky enough to have a corporate learning agenda, so it is up to
us
> to find
> > > our own ways to learn and apply that knowledge.
> > >
> > > *In the past 17 years, GE has increased its market value from $12
> billion
> > > to some $280 billion. For all that time of stupendous enrichment,
> the
> > > management training centre at Croton-on-Hudson (known as
> Crotonville) has
> > > been central to the company's vaunted management system. The
> three-week
> > > development course for high-fliers is so important in GE's scheme
of
> things
> > > that CEO Jack Welch (who is even more vaunted than the system)
goes
> to
> > > Crotonville every month to teach its 700-odd students.*
> > >
> > > http://www.thinkingmanagers.com/management/management-training.php
> > >
> > >
> > > When we watch the Olympics or a master artist perform on stage it
is
> > > amazing to see what they have accomplished. Athletes often put
their
> lives
> > > and careers on hold to perfect that one skill, usually with little
> reward
> > > other than the satisfaction of the process of training and
> improving. Even
> > > if they set a world record, how long will it stand before someone
> else
> > > breaks it?
> > >
> > > What is the perfect company? Can we make one? Think of all the
> moving parts
> > > required to deliver a non-trivial software product to market. What
> would the
> > > perfect company look like to its customers, its employees,
> shareholders? If
> > > we take the customer as the first stakeholder, then I am sure they
> would
> > > have opinions on what the perfect company would be. Applying Lean
> thinking
> > > to the process from a customer request to request fulfilled gives
us
> a long
> > > list of work we need to do to become better at what we do. Asking
> the same
> > > question of the people who work there will also provide a long
list
> of
> > > things we can improve. These are not trivial things on the
surface,
> but core
> > > issues that impact the activity of work. Consider the athlete. If
> you
> > > thought of yourself as a coach, and everyone who reported to you
as
> athletes
> > > looking to experience the satisfaction of the process of training
> and
> > > improving, how would that change your perspective? How would it
> change
> > > theirs? How do we measure our improvement?
> > >
> > > The specific steps you take to become a great manager are the same
> things
> > > one would do to be good at anything, learn, practice, reflect on
the
> > > improvements, what is working, what isn't, repeat. Lean, Scrum,
XP,
> are all
> > > inspirational sources of learning about what works. None of these
> methods
> > > are comprehensive, so the learning never really stops. :) I just
> took Luke
> > > Hohmann's course on Innovation Games. Luke has built some very
> useful tools
> > > for collaboration on product vision and process. These are
> complementary to
> > > Agile ideas, teamwork collaboration. However they are not specific
> to Agile,
> > > for example they are regularly used by a company that manufactures
> > > airconditioning (HVAC) systems.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > Robin.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:44 AM, George Dinwiddie lists@
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Chakravarthy R wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Robin,
> > > >
> > > > As a newbie to this entire philosophy, i still dont get one
thing.
> How
> > > > exactly does an Agile Manager train his team to be self managing
?
> > >
> > > One way is http://estherderby.com/workshops/secrets.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > > How
> > > > does he know this self managing team is in line with the quality
> > > > standards and other objectives of the company ?
> > >
> > > Can you not see the quality being produced? And what other
> objectives
> > > do you mean? Are these not observable?
> > >
> > >
> > > > How exactly does an
> > > > Agile manager strike a balance between a 'free for all'
delegation
> on
> > > > the one hand, and command and control autocracy on the other ?
If
> he
> > > > delegates to these self managing teams then what exactly does he
> do with
> > > > his time, and justify his presence in the company ? If he only
> coaches
> > > > these teams, then what does he do after they have been coached
and
> ready
> > > > to carry on ?
> > >
> > > There's still management to do other than telling other people how
> to do
> > > their work. Esther Derby's blog has a bunch of stuff on this.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I had asked the same question in a different way and got a lot
of
> > > > specific steps, but even if this question is naive, could you
> please
> > > > point me to some resources on how to be hands off and yet be
hands
> on ?
> > > > Okay so the manager can build an atmosphere of agile and lean .
He
> sees
> > > > the big picture and teaches his people to do so. . However the
> bottom
> > > > line is that if this team fails, he is accountable to his
seniors.
> So he
> > > > needs to keep an eye without being intrusive. How does he do it
?
> > >
> > > Maybe
> > >
> > >
>
http://www.estherderby.com/weblog/2009/06/when-to-stand-back-when-to-ste\
\
>
ep-i
> n.html>
> p-in.html
> > > will be of help.
> > >
> > > - George
> > > --
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
> > > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
> > > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robin Dymond, CST
> > > Managing Partner, Innovel, LLC.
> > > www.innovel.net
> > > www.scrumtraining.com
> > > (804) 239-4329
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--
Robin Dymond, CST
Managing Partner, Innovel, LLC.
www.innovel.net
www.scrumtraining.com
(804) 239-4329
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