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Reply | Forward Message #746 of 762 |
RE: [leanprogramming] oo question

That's a good example.

I probably wouldn't have called out the continuum, even though it's there.
I can't see the water in which I swim.

If Scott had pointed out the continuum but not picked points, I would
probably just have drawn the distinction between encapsulated and
un-encapsulated with two points. If I thought about it for a while longer,
I would probably have come up with hiding the presence of a field altogether
as another, stronger form of encapsulation. Perhaps I would have come up
with encapsulating by design.

...but because I can't see the water in which I am swimming, it's easier for
me to answer a question than to put forth a model. That's how it all
started.

Max Guernsey, III
Managing Member, Hexagon Software
http://www.hexsw.com
http://www.dataconstructor.com

-----Original Message-----
From: leanprogramming@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:leanprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aeden Jameson
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:50 PM
To: leanprogramming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [leanprogramming] oo question

I believe I understand what a continuum is. What I'm curious about is
how you would characterize the continuum and what your points would
be. I'd like to recross the methaporical bridge you stated. The depth
of the sea is like [power of the indirection offered]. As for
choosing different points, perhaps there is one missing. For example,


Un-encapsulated
....
....

[Encapsulate Design] - You don't want the client to be aware of how
something is designed.


Cheers,
Aeden

On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Max Guernsey, III <max@...> wrote:
>
>
> I probably would have selected fewer points than him because I would not
> have thought to draw the distinction between encapsulation by instance and
> un-encapsulated.  They are both on the “not-sufficiently encapsulated”
side
> of the line for me so I think of them both as un-encapsulated.
>
>
>
> His distinction is right but it’s like describing the depth of the ocean
to
> me.  There’s:
>
> ·         Above water, where I try to stay.
>
> ·         Wet but still won’t crush my rib cage, where I might go if
> absolutely necessary.
>
> ·         Then there is too deep.
>
>
>
> If I were a SCUBA diver, I would probably draw different lines like:
>
> ·         Above water.
>
> ·         Where I wait while I decompress.
>
> ·         As deep as I am certified to go.
>
> ·         As deep as I will go to save someone’s life.
>
> ·         Too deep… sorry, Charlie: you’re toast.
>
>
>
> …but it’s still the same continuum of depth.
>
>
>
> Max Guernsey, III
>
> Managing Member, Hexagon Software
>
> http://www.hexsw.com
>
> http://www.dataconstructor.com
>
>
>
> From: leanprogramming@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:leanprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aeden Jameson
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 7:42 PM
>
> To: leanprogramming@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [leanprogramming] oo question
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Max Guernsey, III <max@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well. It is a continuum, right?
> How would you characterize the contiuum? What would be your points?
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Cheers,
> Aeden
>
>



--
Cheers,
Aeden

Software Musings @
http://aedenjameson.blogspot.com/


------------------------------------

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Sun May 10, 2009 11:05 pm

maxguernseyiii
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Message #746 of 762 |
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hi, I am currently under the belief that while "tell don't ask" is a great rule of thumb for doing OO, it is not possible to do that all the way throughout the...
Raoul Duke
theraoulduke
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May 7, 2009
8:10 pm

"Tell Don't Ask" is a principle, not a practice, in my view. Principles are always evaluated, and at times are not followed, but this is always done...
Scott L. Bain
slbain9000
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May 7, 2009
8:17 pm

Hey Scott, ... Yeah, I think ref/out expose a problem with separating command/query. Sometimes it feels like there's a hierarchy or chain of command among the...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
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May 8, 2009
9:06 am

... No, there are other alternatives. (Disclaimer: I'm not going to argue that they are better, or that getters are bad practice in this case. I'm only arguing...
Ilja PreuĂź
ipreussde
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May 8, 2009
9:57 am

Ceiling cat kind of sees what you did there… I have to ask this, though: Is invoking a getter not telling the object you want something from it? It’s not...
Max Guernsey, III
maxguernseyiii
Offline Send Email
May 8, 2009
3:48 pm

It's on a continuum of encapsulation. Un-Encapsulated: String street = Address.street; // public primitive data member, static. Might as well call it a...
Scott L. Bain
slbain9000
Offline Send Email
May 8, 2009
4:30 pm

I'm having a little trouble understanding the continum. i don't understand the difference in what's being encapsulated in the first two, un-encapsulated and...
Aeden Jameson
bevelededges
Offline Send Email
May 9, 2009
8:39 pm

The identity of the entity to which the address pertains. The fact that only objects with a reference to myAddress can access that instance's address field...
Max Guernsey, III
maxguernseyiii
Offline Send Email
May 10, 2009
12:08 am

Ok, so I think I almost got it Un-encapsulated - Address is mutable for everyone ...By Instance - Address is mutable for everyone that has a reference to an...
Aeden Jameson
bevelededges
Offline Send Email
May 10, 2009
12:30 am

Well. It is a continuum, right? Scott picked four points on said continuum. I might not have chosen the same points he did to exemplify the continuum, but...
Max Guernsey, III
maxguernseyiii
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May 10, 2009
1:16 am

... How would you characterize the contiuum? What would be your points? Thanks for your time, Cheers, Aeden...
Aeden Jameson
bevelededges
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May 10, 2009
2:42 am

I probably would have selected fewer points than him because I would not have thought to draw the distinction between encapsulation by instance and ...
Max Guernsey, III
maxguernseyiii
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May 10, 2009
4:36 am

I believe I understand what a continuum is. What I'm curious about is how you would characterize the continuum and what your points would be. I'd like to...
Aeden Jameson
bevelededges
Offline Send Email
May 10, 2009
10:51 pm

That's a good example. I probably wouldn't have called out the continuum, even though it's there. I can't see the water in which I swim. If Scott had pointed...
Max Guernsey, III
maxguernseyiii
Offline Send Email
May 10, 2009
11:07 pm

Hi Raoul. The question of inquisitive vs. assertive (ask vs. tell) is often in the eye of the beholder. The real question is not what Stuff you're having the...
Amir Kolsky
kolsky
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May 9, 2009
4:01 am

Man, that was remarkably well said, Amir... ... From: "Amir Kolsky"<amir.kolsky@...> Sent: 5/8/09 9:00:47 PM To:...
Scott L. Bain
slbain9000
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May 9, 2009
6:13 am
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