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Reply Message #515 of 715 |
Re: [lingwadeplaneta] Re: Hyphens

Chao amigas!

No-repari-bile = it. danneggiabile, Eo = damaĝebla

Bu-repari-bile = it. irrimediabile, Eo = neriparebla

bat me preferi:

Noreparibile = it. danneggiabile, Eo = damaĝebla

Bureparibile = it. irrimediabile, Eo = neriparebla

Swasti!

Ati

2011/9/30 Robert Winter <robert.james.winter@...>
 


I am strongly in favour of retaining hyphens almost everywhere!

I have two main reasons for this:

(1) It makes it much easier for readers, new to the language, to find words in the dictionary (so long as the dictionary is incomplete). For example yesterday Dmitry assisted me doing a translation by providing me with the word "noreparibilem" (= irreparably / irremedially). This was for the sentence "Kopérnikus, Kopérnikus, kare don Elijio, he ruini jenley, noreparibilem." (from the original Italian "Copernico, Copernico, don Eligio mio ha rovinato l'umanità, irrimediabilmente."). Obviously "noreparibilem" is not in the dictionary, but "repari" is. Now, "no-reparibilem" is easier to find in the dictionary because the user knows to search for "*repar*" rather than "norepar*". Also, the etymology / word construction is clearer. One could go further and hyphenate most suffixes too, but I am too out of practice of LdP to give a concrete example here.

(2) When I write LdP, I like to imagine I am writing Chinese, in which a concept is represented by a character and then characters are combined to form compound concepts. One can always see the individual characters and the separation between them, and that separation is conceptual rather than merely phonetic. I think to write LdP similarly, with hyphens separating what would be characters in Chinese, is in principal the easiest possible way to write. Building blocks are put together with hyphens to make words. For example, imagine "no-reparibil-nem" as a compromise, assuming that "reparibil" were listed in the dictionary; alternatively, consider "no-repari-bilem". The reader can clearly see "no" = negation, not ... "repari" = repair, "bilem" = adverbial marker of ability. Or whatever. And each part could be strongly recognised as a conceptual unit. Long words like "noreparibilem" start to look incongruously difficult and rather similar to, say, Interlingua's "irremediabilemente". They are harder to pronounce too since it takes longer to decipher them into syllables, the way the eye works, in my opinion. Please excuse my clumsy examples, I am just trying to convey the general idea.

This is just my small thought (my two cents).




Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:57 pm

attilio.liotto
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Message #515 of 715 |
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There has been a criticism that it is difficult to remember where to write a hyphen and where not to write. Maybe it is worth to consider a reduction of...
lingwadeplaneta Offline Send Email Apr 14, 2011
7:05 am

Nihao amigas! Le seguenti parole non sembrano ma sono OK: ekkrai, ektuki, enstan, entuki, enlubi, forgunsa, proguverna-ney, stifmata, hafluma, hafora, swaluba,...
Attilio Liotto
attilio.liotto Offline Send Email
Apr 14, 2011
2:26 pm

Privet a oli! Wen me dwa yar bak en-koni-te kun La, de me toshi idyen tensi-nem presenta de defis. Bat e en-intrigi-nem! Poy me samaji-te, ke tak pyu simplem...
konstantinstolyarov
konstantinst... Offline Send Email
Apr 16, 2011
8:37 am

... Sdraste! ... Also yu es pro haifen. Klare. (Me zai yusi "haifen", bikos, segun Wiktionary, in hindi ye "haifan", in nihon ye "haifun", in hanguk (Korean)...
lingwadeplaneta Offline Send Email Apr 16, 2011
1:43 pm

Wordas vidit, kilit, lubit es hao alternativa a vidi-te, kili-te, lubi-tte. Si nu permiti yusing ve bu sol avanen zwo worda, bat toshi...
Attilio Liotto
attilio.liotto Offline Send Email
Apr 16, 2011
2:15 pm

... "Hafora" shows where the problem lies. Where is the syllable break? Is it haf-o-ra or ha-fo-ra? If the first, the hyphen is reasonable; otherwise, it may...
Stephen Rice
ansric Offline Send Email
Apr 17, 2011
10:58 pm

... Ok, you are more talented in mathematics than me. ... You mean that the rules for hyphens aren't sufficiently clear? What would be your decision? I myself...
lingwadeplaneta Offline Send Email Apr 19, 2011
6:51 am

... Syllable breaks are important. Where is the first break in hafora? ... I mean our finding ourselves at sixes and sevens. What would be ... The main problem...
Stephen Rice
ansric Offline Send Email
Apr 19, 2011
5:08 pm

... It's haf-o-ra, although in a quick speech I can imagine ha-fo-ra too. For clarity to write haf-ora is better. And it is generally often the case with...
lingwadeplaneta Offline Send Email Apr 20, 2011
6:11 am

I am strongly in favour of retaining hyphens almost everywhere! I have two main reasons for this: (1) It makes it much easier for readers, new to the language,...
Robert Winter
robert.winte... Offline Send Email
Sep 30, 2011
12:30 pm

Chao amigas! No-repari-bile = it. danneggiabile, Eo = damaĝebla Bu-repari-bile = it. irrimediabile, Eo = neriparebla bat me preferi: Noreparibile = it....
Attilio Liotto
attilio.liotto Offline Send Email
Sep 30, 2011
5:57 pm

Hao dey-taim, Robert! Even in natural languages hyphens are used with sufficient variability, so one can expect this in a conlang too, expecially at its early...
lingwadeplaneta Offline Send Email Sep 30, 2011
7:23 pm

... I've checked the Chinese words like "irrepairable", and they are in structure something like "not can repair (modifier}" or "no way repair (modifier}"....
lingwadeplaneta Offline Send Email Sep 30, 2011
8:30 pm

... As a mediating position, why not just hyphenate prefixes? They're the problem for people looking up words. I recently encountered "kogun," which I took to...
Stephen Rice
ansric Offline Send Email
Sep 30, 2011
9:00 pm

I agree with Steve that a good mediating position is to just hyphenate prefixes, for the reasons he stipulates. That is I think an excellent compromise. So...
Robert Winter
robert.winte... Offline Send Email
Oct 1, 2011
9:25 am

... There is a difference between a negation and an opposite, though sometimes it's small. For example, "not friendly" may mean "inimical," but it may also...
Stephen Rice
ansric Offline Send Email
Oct 1, 2011
10:14 pm

... As often recently, I have little to add after your message. Indeed, with some words the use of NO and BU gives clearly different results: bugran means "not...
lingwadeplaneta Offline Send Email Oct 2, 2011
7:09 am

... I was mostly attempting to explain Attilio's distinction. Whether it is valid or not is another matter. I notice that in your view, both BU and NO affect...
Stephen Rice
ansric Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2011
10:05 pm

... Ko-bratas, I too recently encountered several words with ko- and came to conclusion that ko- is definitely always better with a hyphen. Nu ko-fai for ba! ...
lingwadeplaneta Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2011
1:32 pm
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