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On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 04:48:17PM +1100, Finn Thain wrote:
> With VIA 1 on interrupt level 6, ADB generally gets lower latency, which
> kind of explains the improvement in ADB but not the additional
> deterioration of SCSI caused by the alt_via_mapping change.
>
> I don't know what to conclude from this other than ADB probably has more
> than one race condition :-/

Well, many of the mac device drivers take a very stupid approach
to locking and reentrancy. Most of them try things like disabling
all interrupts to prevent problems, which just causes problems
for other drivers. They probably should all be rewritten from
scratch, but that's a painful suggestion.

The via-cuda driver is kind of odd in that it was originally
written for powermacs, and then hacked up to support 68k.

	 Brad Boyer
	 flar@...

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On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 20:12 +0100, Laurent Vivier wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm working on EMILE to make a CDROM bootable.
>
> I've a very experimental floppy image that allows to boot from a
> floppy and then load kernel and ramdisk from a CD.
>
> You can find it at http://emile.sourceforge.net/SNAPSHOT/emile-
> cdboot.bin
>
> I've tested it with the install CD (Binary-1 or netboot) of woody and
> sarge.
>
> Put the CD in the CD drive (SCSI id 3) , the floppy in the floppy
> drive and boot...
>
> Any comments ?
>

Tested this successfully using sarge netinst CD with the following
hardware:

Quadra 630 w/ 136 MB DRAM - Onboard Sonic Ethernet
Quadra 610 w/ 68 MB DRAM - Onboard Sonic Ethernet
Performa 638CD w/ 68 MB DRAM - PDS CS8900 Ethernet

I will test more hardware as I have time.

Ray


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On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Brad Boyer wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 05:23:16PM -0600, Bob Brose wrote:
> > With the b and c patches mentioned previously installed, if adb is
> > DISABLED esp and sonic work ok. sg_verify suceeds on the whole disc.
> >
> > If adb is enabled, sonic works ok but esp gets the selection errors
> > and fails the sg_verify randomly. ADB itself works with the keyboard
> > but is very flakey.
> >
> > With ADB enabled, If the kernel is compiled with gcc2.95 on OSX, there
> > are about 100 times as many esp select errors than there is if the
> > same kernel is compiled with gcc 3.3.5 on the performa itself.
> >
> > If I enable the "alternate irq mapping" by adding the 575 to the table
> > of supported machines in arch/m68k/mac/via.c I get MUCH better
> > behavior out of ADB keyboard. It SEEMS like I can't make it fail.
> > Sonic still works but esp throws many selection errors and fails right
> > away on sg_verify. The modified alt irq mapping code:
>
> This suggests to me that interrupts are getting lost. With the alternate
> IRQ mapping, the priorities are all different, so things are a lot less
> likely to overlap and cause problems.

With VIA 1 on interrupt level 6, ADB generally gets lower latency, which
kind of explains the improvement in ADB but not the additional
deterioration of SCSI caused by the alt_via_mapping change.

I don't know what to conclude from this other than ADB probably has more
than one race condition :-/

-f
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On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Bob Brose wrote:

>
> > > Also another odd thing, from adb. I was holding down the up arrow
> > > key to go through the history under bash and the computer though at
> > > some point that I never released the key. I couldn't do anything to
> > > get it to stop by repushing the down key or any other key for that
> > > matter.
> >
> > Do any other ADB events register? If no other keys do anything at all,
> > it's possible that the driver lost communication with the bus, and
> > isn't seeing anything to end the key repeat. Most likely this would
> > just be a bug in the driver.
>
> It seems like the adb gets hung. When it gets stuck, last time was on
> the "n" key, no other key makes it change, it keeps hammering out n's.
> When this happens, I can still access the machine via the ethernet. When
> I try a reboot (which appears to rely upon adb) the machine is unable to
> restart, it hangs at the point at which it's supposedly going to do a HW
> reboot.

A while ago I had the same "stuck" key problem (on very similar hardware).

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-mac68k&m=112006052810878&w=2

> Now I tried a bunch of combinations of kernels and devices and made the
> following observations:
>
> With the b and c patches mentioned previously installed, if adb is
> DISABLED esp and sonic work ok. sg_verify suceeds on the whole disc.

OK, this means there isn't really any regression. CUDA ADB has been flakey
for as long as I've been using 2.6 kernels. (Small comfort, I know.)

-f
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On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 05:23:16PM -0600, Bob Brose wrote:
> It seems like the adb gets hung. When it gets stuck, last time was on the "n"
> key, no other key makes it change, it keeps hammering out n's. When this
> happens, I can still access the machine via the ethernet. When I try a reboot
> (which appears to rely upon adb) the machine is unable to restart, it
> hangs at the point at which it's supposedly going to do a HW reboot.

Yes, that's a full ADB hang. All but the oldest models do reboot and
shutdown using commands to the ADB controller. The driver probably
got into a bad state and lost track of everything. About all you can
do at that point is a hardware reset using key combos or a programmer's
switch reset button.

> Now I tried a bunch of combinations of kernels and devices and made the
> following observations:
>
> With the b and c patches mentioned previously installed, if adb is
> DISABLED esp and sonic work ok. sg_verify suceeds on the whole disc.
>
> If adb is enabled, sonic works ok but esp gets the selection errors and
> fails the sg_verify randomly. ADB itself works with the keyboard but is
> very flakey.
>
> With ADB enabled, If the kernel is compiled with gcc2.95 on OSX, there are
> about 100 times as many esp select errors than there is if the same kernel
> is compiled with gcc 3.3.5 on the performa itself.
>
> If I enable the "alternate irq mapping" by adding the 575 to the
> table of supported machines in arch/m68k/mac/via.c I get MUCH better
> behavior out of ADB keyboard. It SEEMS like I can't make it fail. Sonic
> still works but esp throws many selection errors and fails right
> away on sg_verify. The modified alt irq mapping code:

This suggests to me that interrupts are getting lost. With the alternate
IRQ mapping, the priorities are all different, so things are a lot less
likely to overlap and cause problems. I'll take a look at a few parts
of your two kernels to see if they compile the interrupt code or the esp
driver in a different way that might explain problems like this. I'll
hopefully get back to you on this by the end of the week.

I suppose we should commit the patch to add this model to the alt irq
mapping list since it does seem to work and make things better.

	 Brad Boyer
	 flar@...

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On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Bob Brose wrote:

> Hi All,
> Maybe the esp problem is timing related. I got an interesting result when I
> moved the kernel from compiling on an OSX machine to directly on the performa.
> With the same tree, the same .config BUT a different compiler (osx=2.95,
> performa = 3.3.5) I get somewhat different results!

You should also have gcc 3.3 and 3.4 for OS X. When following the
instructions on the mac 68k site, just use a different $PATH. That is,
any one of,

/opt/btc-0.9/gcc-2.95.3-binutils-2.12.90.0.1-glibc-2.2.5/bin
/opt/btc-0.9/gcc-3.3.6-binutils-2.15.94.0.2.2-glibc-2.3.3/bin
/opt/btc-0.9/gcc-3.4.4-binutils-2.15.94.0.2.2-glibc-2.3.5/bin

> (these are with both of Finn's latest b and c patches:
>
> patch_b-mac68k_cvs_via_cleanup_and_fix2.diff
> patch_c-interrupts-again-again3.diff

The problem with patch_c-interrupts-again-again3.diff and
patch_c-irq-fixes2.diff is that they are rather experimental. In their
present unfinished state, neither of them is really a candidate for
merging. Because they affect VIA1, but don't really help the SCSI/ADB
problem, they introduce another variable that can complicate the
comparison of compilers.

patch b, on the other hand, should be used (and should be sent upstream).

-f

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Brad Boyer:
.
.
> That seems odd. Could you send me both kernels (in a private email) so I
> can take a look at them? It's possible one compiler or the other has a
> bug in the code generation. It's been known to happen before.

Done. Also, I compared a bunch of different kernel compiles and interrupt
configurations and made notes below...

> > Also another odd thing, from adb. I was holding down the up arrow key to go
> > through the history  under bash and the computer though at some point that I
> > never released the key. I couldn't do anything to get it to stop by
repushing
> > the down key or any other key for that matter.
>
> Do any other ADB events register? If no other keys do anything at all, it's
> possible that the driver lost communication with the bus, and isn't seeing
> anything to end the key repeat. Most likely this would just be a bug in
> the driver.

It seems like the adb gets hung. When it gets stuck, last time was on the "n"
key, no other key makes it change, it keeps hammering out n's. When this
happens, I can still access the machine via the ethernet. When I try a reboot
(which appears to rely upon adb) the machine is unable to restart, it
hangs at the point at which it's supposedly going to do a HW reboot.

Now I tried a bunch of combinations of kernels and devices and made the
following observations:

With the b and c patches mentioned previously installed, if adb is
DISABLED esp and sonic work ok. sg_verify suceeds on the whole disc.

If adb is enabled, sonic works ok but esp gets the selection errors and
fails the sg_verify randomly. ADB itself works with the keyboard but is
very flakey.

With ADB enabled, If the kernel is compiled with gcc2.95 on OSX, there are
about 100 times as many esp select errors than there is if the same kernel
is compiled with gcc 3.3.5 on the performa itself.

If I enable the "alternate irq mapping" by adding the 575 to the
table of supported machines in arch/m68k/mac/via.c I get MUCH better
behavior out of ADB keyboard. It SEEMS like I can't make it fail. Sonic
still works but esp throws many selection errors and fails right
away on sg_verify. The modified alt irq mapping code:

#if 1
         /* Some machines support an alternate IRQ mapping that spreads  */
         /* Ethernet and Sound out to their own autolevel IRQs and moves */
         /* VIA1 to level 6. A/UX uses this mapping and we do too.  Note */
         /* that the IIfx emulates this alternate mapping using the OSS. */

         switch(macintosh_config->ident) {
                 case MAC_MODEL_P575:
                         via_alt_mapping = 1;
                         via1[vDirB] |= 0x40;
                         via1[vBufB] &= ~0x40;
                         break;
                         break;
                 default:
                         via_alt_mapping = 0;
                         break;
         }

Without the alt_irq_mapping I get this interrupt configuration:
auto  0:          0   spurious int
auto  1:    1460722   via1
auto  2:      56742   via2
auto  3:          0   int3 handler
auto  4:          0   scc
auto  5:          0   int5 handler
auto  6:          0   int6 handler
auto  7:          0   NMI
via1  9:     550450   framebuffer vbl
                       framebuffer vbl
via1 10:        287   ADB
via1 14:     914166   timer
via2 17:       2852 F nubus
via2 19:      53909   Mac ESP SCSI
nbus 56:       2852 F sonic

With the alt mapping I get:
auto  0:          0   spurious int
auto  1:          0   int1 handler
auto  2:       4872   via2
auto  3:        763   sonic
auto  4:          0   scc
auto  5:          0   int5 handler
auto  6:      16788   via1
auto  7:          0   NMI
via1  9:       6805   framebuffer vbl
                       framebuffer vbl
via1 10:        282   ADB
via1 14:      10703   timer
via2 17:          0 F nubus
via2 19:       4872   Mac ESP SCSI

With alt mapping and no ADB I get:
auto  0:          0   spurious int
auto  1:          0   int1 handler
auto  2:       8797   via2
auto  3:       1298   sonic
auto  4:          0   scc
auto  5:          0   int5 handler
auto  6:     147840   via1
auto  7:          0   NMI
via1  9:      56321   framebuffer vbl
                       framebuffer vbl
via1 14:      92894   timer
via2 17:          0 F nubus
via2 19:       8797   Mac ESP SCSI


Hope this gives some clues....

Bob
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On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 02:06:24PM -0600, Bob Brose wrote:
> Hi All,
> Maybe the esp problem is timing related. I got an interesting result when I
> moved the kernel from compiling on an OSX machine to directly on the performa.
> With the same tree, the same .config BUT a different compiler (osx=2.95,
> performa = 3.3.5) I get somewhat different results! (these are with
> both of Finn's latest b and c patches:
>
> patch_b-mac68k_cvs_via_cleanup_and_fix2.diff
> patch_c-interrupts-again-again3.diff
>
> The kernel compiled on the performa with the adb active spits out the
> esp error MUCH less. In fact I had to do a sg_verify on the whole drive
> to get a "esp0: Warning, live target 0 not responding to selection" message.
> And even at that it went several thousands sectors into the drive before
> throwing the message as opposed to a few dozen with the kernel compiled on
> OSX.

That seems odd. Could you send me both kernels (in a private email) so I
can take a look at them? It's possible one compiler or the other has a
bug in the code generation. It's been known to happen before.

> Also another odd thing, from adb. I was holding down the up arrow key to go
> through the history  under bash and the computer though at some point that I
> never released the key. I couldn't do anything to get it to stop by repushing
> the down key or any other key for that matter.

Do any other ADB events register? If no other keys do anything at all, it's
possible that the driver lost communication with the bus, and isn't seeing
anything to end the key repeat. Most likely this would just be a bug in
the driver.

	 Brad Boyer
	 flar@...

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Hi All,
Maybe the esp problem is timing related. I got an interesting result when I
moved the kernel from compiling on an OSX machine to directly on the performa.
With the same tree, the same .config BUT a different compiler (osx=2.95,
performa = 3.3.5) I get somewhat different results! (these are with
both of Finn's latest b and c patches:

patch_b-mac68k_cvs_via_cleanup_and_fix2.diff
patch_c-interrupts-again-again3.diff

The kernel compiled on the performa with the adb active spits out the
esp error MUCH less. In fact I had to do a sg_verify on the whole drive
to get a "esp0: Warning, live target 0 not responding to selection" message.
And even at that it went several thousands sectors into the drive before
throwing the message as opposed to a few dozen with the kernel compiled on
OSX.

Also another odd thing, from adb. I was holding down the up arrow key to go
through the history  under bash and the computer though at some point that I
never released the key. I couldn't do anything to get it to stop by repushing
the down key or any other key for that matter.


Linux version 2.6.14-m68k (root@performa) (gcc version 3.3.5 (Debian
1:3.3.5-13)) #16 Sun Nov 20 10:27:15 CST 2005

Linux version 2.6.14-m68k (bob@...) (gcc version 2.95.4 20011002 (Debi
an prerelease)) #12 Sun Nov 13 00:42:29 CST 2005

Bob
Brad Boyer:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 11:14:59PM +1100, Finn Thain wrote:
> > On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Brad Boyer wrote:
> > > The CUDA ADB driver is very cavalier about poking bits in the VIA. It's
> > > possible that it's conflicting with one of the VIA driver changes in one
> > > of those patches.
> >
> > patch_b is confined to VIA2... Adding patch_c didn't make any difference.
> >
> > I didn't think ADB was related to VIA2?
>
> That's true. There shouldn't be anything touching VIA2 in the ADB code. I
> have to admit that I haven't looked at your patches very closely. In any
> case, there are some things in the CUDA code that might affect timers in
> particular, and perhaps other obscure parts on the side. It's not
> exactly cleanly written, but I haven't taken the time to figure out
> how the code is supposed to work. I'll try to find some time to work
> on 68k code again sometime soon. Perhaps in a couple weeks when I have
> some holidays from work.
>
>  Brad Boyer
>  flar@...
>

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Le 17 nov. 05 à 21:44, Eric Shattow a écrit :

> [...]
> Laurent,
>
> I tested your cdboot image on a "mystic" mac configuration. For the
> function of a CDROM drive I am using the internal scsi CDROM device
> pulled from an lc575, and this is mounted in the external SCSI
> enclosure
> of an old Ricoh MP6200S cdrw burner. Then of course I modify the
> gestalt
> force parameter to '92' using emile-set-output. The result is that the
> machine boots and runs the "woody net inst m68k" cdrom disc I am
> testing
> with. It functions perfectly on "mystic" mac.
>
> Very nice development :)

Thank you !

>
> I also want to tell you that the x86 snapshot of EMILE is now working
> with respect to modifying and writing out the gestalt ID. Thanks again
> for that, if not for EMILE then I might have sent this cute little mac
> machine to the trash.
>
> An unrelated / off topic question for you, is there still interest in
> adapting EMILE to support ppc? I can send you hardware to test with if
> needed.

In fact I just need some time... I've two 6100 (+ Sonnet), one 5275
and one 7100 to test it....
Thank you for this proposition.

There is already some code in EMILE to manage powerpc.
I've added some code to manage ELF object to boot from CDROM and I
think it should help to boot powerpc kernel and netbsd.

My priorities are:
- sources clean up
- boot directly from CDROM (Need to write an Apple_Driver)
- read kernel from an ext2 filesystem by specifying filename
- boot with a menu to select between several kernels
- boot netbsd
- boot powerpc kernel
- boot on a classic macintosh (I need to work on linux for the
classic too)
- boot AROS on a macintosh classic
- port EMILE to Amiga (It seems Amiboot needs workbench)
- add support to ATA interface.
And moreover I'd like to work on linux 2.6 for macintosh...

Laurent


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On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 14:10 -0800, Brad Boyer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 02:44:34PM -0600, Eric Shattow wrote:
> > An unrelated / off topic question for you, is there still interest in
> > adapting EMILE to support ppc? I can send you hardware to test with if
> > needed.
>
> Wouldn't it be easier to just hack miboot to support a wider range of
> hardware? I have to admit that I haven't looked at booting on
> nubus-pmac since I don't have the hardware.
>
>  Brad Boyer
>  flar@...
>

Brad,

The miBoot licensing and "free as in freedom" alignment is in question.
I've used miBoot as a user on 6116cd apple mac hardware, and it is very
well done. You practically need an Apple OS to set it up from user's
point of view though, and for a developer it is not suited to F/OSS. I
mean that the developer of miBoot used Apple-proprietary software to
build it. This is not an acceptable solution for F/OSS as I understand
it. EMILE might be the base of legitimately GPL licensed code needed to
build a proper F/OSS bootloader for ppc nubus (and others) macintosh
systems.

I think the concept used in EMILE/m68k is identical to that which would
be used for an EMILE/ppc derivative. The hardware in each platform
contains a partial MacOS boot rom.

Function of miBoot is acheived by using Apple-provided toolkits which
facillitate development of a fake MacOS "System" file. This is read by
the partial MacOS boot rom as the real "System" file, then the execution
changes to run miBoot code, and that code is designed to trick the
partial MacOS boot rom into executing linux kernel code.

I might have the details wrong here, and this is as best I can remember.
My "mystic" 68k mac has taken priority over the pizza box 6116cd in
recent months :)

  Eric

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On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 02:44:34PM -0600, Eric Shattow wrote:
> An unrelated / off topic question for you, is there still interest in
> adapting EMILE to support ppc? I can send you hardware to test with if
> needed.

Wouldn't it be easier to just hack miboot to support a wider range of
hardware? I have to admit that I haven't looked at booting on
nubus-pmac since I don't have the hardware.

	 Brad Boyer
	 flar@...

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On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 20:12 +0100, Laurent Vivier wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm working on EMILE to make a CDROM bootable.
>
> I've a very experimental floppy image that allows to boot from a
> floppy and then load kernel and ramdisk from a CD.
>
> You can find it at http://emile.sourceforge.net/SNAPSHOT/emile-
> cdboot.bin
>
> I've tested it with the install CD (Binary-1 or netboot) of woody and
> sarge.
>
> Put the CD in the CD drive (SCSI id 3) , the floppy in the floppy
> drive and boot...
>
> Any comments ?
>
> Regards.
> --
> Laurent Vivier
> LaurentVivier@...
> [And now it's time to drink some "beaujolais nouveau" ;-) ]
>

Laurent,

I tested your cdboot image on a "mystic" mac configuration. For the
function of a CDROM drive I am using the internal scsi CDROM device
pulled from an lc575, and this is mounted in the external SCSI enclosure
of an old Ricoh MP6200S cdrw burner. Then of course I modify the gestalt
force parameter to '92' using emile-set-output. The result is that the
machine boots and runs the "woody net inst m68k" cdrom disc I am testing
with. It functions perfectly on "mystic" mac.

Very nice development :)

I also want to tell you that the x86 snapshot of EMILE is now working
with respect to modifying and writing out the gestalt ID. Thanks again
for that, if not for EMILE then I might have sent this cute little mac
machine to the trash.

An unrelated / off topic question for you, is there still interest in
adapting EMILE to support ppc? I can send you hardware to test with if
needed.

  Eric



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Hi,

I'm working on EMILE to make a CDROM bootable.

I've a very experimental floppy image that allows to boot from a
floppy and then load kernel and ramdisk from a CD.

You can find it at http://emile.sourceforge.net/SNAPSHOT/emile-
cdboot.bin

I've tested it with the install CD (Binary-1 or netboot) of woody and
sarge.

Put the CD in the CD drive (SCSI id 3) , the floppy in the floppy
drive and boot...

Any comments ?

Regards.
--
Laurent Vivier
LaurentVivier@...
[And now it's time to drink some "beaujolais nouveau" ;-) ]



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On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 11:14:59PM +1100, Finn Thain wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Brad Boyer wrote:
> > The CUDA ADB driver is very cavalier about poking bits in the VIA. It's
> > possible that it's conflicting with one of the VIA driver changes in one
> > of those patches.
>
> patch_b is confined to VIA2... Adding patch_c didn't make any difference.
>
> I didn't think ADB was related to VIA2?

That's true. There shouldn't be anything touching VIA2 in the ADB code. I
have to admit that I haven't looked at your patches very closely. In any
case, there are some things in the CUDA code that might affect timers in
particular, and perhaps other obscure parts on the side. It's not
exactly cleanly written, but I haven't taken the time to figure out
how the code is supposed to work. I'll try to find some time to work
on 68k code again sometime soon. Perhaps in a couple weeks when I have
some holidays from work.

	 Brad Boyer
	 flar@...

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