That was an email to my prof.  Getting frustrated w/ these last millenium
systems, and 28.8 modem speed....

=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

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Oops, forgot, enjoy your vacation.

===============================================================
WSIS Prep Report ( full text, http://www.worldsummit2003.org/ )
===============================================================

Thank you for the update,

From the Paris meeting reports, it seems that there isn't any agreed definition
for the Internet Society.

To me, it is "human society well informed" and able to make "democractic
decisions through informed consent."  This would require two-way communication
in a documentable format.  Websites and email are mediums, but I see a
universal hybridized documentation system somewhere between email and chat (IM)
in a structured format such as XML displayed in blog (web journal) format.

I am writing an essay defining the Internet Society for my prof -- I am now
enrolled in Empire State College.  My other topic is empathic psychotherapy.
After reading Carl Roger's books I suddenly realized that the Open ICTs are a
perfect extension for the "unconditional postive reguard" which is the
cornerstone of humanistic psychology.  That to me is the destiny of the
Information Society.

Any comments ??  ( I will put out an informal request for comments soon )

John van V.


--- Wainaina <wainainam@...> wrote:
> Paris, 18 July 2003.
>
> This afternoon, the Paris intersessional meeting ended with little
> more results than were already in place yesterday. The summit
> declaration is still a draft working document with a whole number of
> bracketed (i.e. not agreed upon) paragraphs and formulations. The
> action plan was not even discussed in depth. A new draft Declaration
> was be distributed, which incorporates some views from observers. A
> second document was also distributed reflecting discussion of the
> plan of action. The president of the preparatory committee, Adama
> Samassekou, announced that the work on the action plan will be
> carried further on a regional basis before the third PrepCom meeting
> in Geneva in September. A refined version of the draft action plan
> will be released on the ITU website by 23 of August. The morning
> session in the plenary was dominated by strong statements from civil
> society representatives. Meryem Marzouki from the Human Rights
> Caucus, speaking on behalf of the Civil Society Plenary, voiced
> the "profound sense of disappointment and frustration" felt by many
> civil society participants. More... http://www.worldsummit2003.org/
> =========
>
> Send comments to wsisyouthkenya@yahoogroups.com !
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> wsisyouthkenya-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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Thank you for the update,

From the Paris meeting reports, it seems that there isn't any agreed definition
for the Internet Society.

To me, it is "human society well informed" to be able to make "democractic
decisions through informed consent."  This would require two-way communication
in a documentable format.  Websites and email are mediums, but I see a
universal hybridized documentation system somewhere between email and chat (IM)
in a structured format such as XML displayed in blog (web journal) format.

I am writing an essay defining the Internet Society for my prof -- I am now
enrolled in Empire State College.  My other topic is empathic psychotherapy.
After reading Carl Roger's books I suddenly realized that the Open ICTs are a
perfect extension for the "unconditional postive reguard" which is the
cornerstone of humanistic psychology.  That to me is the destiny of the
Information Society.

Any comments ??  ( I will put out an informal request for comments soon )

John van V.


--- Wainaina <wainainam@...> wrote:
> Paris, 18 July 2003.
>
> This afternoon, the Paris intersessional meeting ended with little
> more results than were already in place yesterday. The summit
> declaration is still a draft working document with a whole number of
> bracketed (i.e. not agreed upon) paragraphs and formulations. The
> action plan was not even discussed in depth. A new draft Declaration
> was be distributed, which incorporates some views from observers. A
> second document was also distributed reflecting discussion of the
> plan of action. The president of the preparatory committee, Adama
> Samassekou, announced that the work on the action plan will be
> carried further on a regional basis before the third PrepCom meeting
> in Geneva in September. A refined version of the draft action plan
> will be released on the ITU website by 23 of August. The morning
> session in the plenary was dominated by strong statements from civil
> society representatives. Meryem Marzouki from the Human Rights
> Caucus, speaking on behalf of the Civil Society Plenary, voiced
> the "profound sense of disappointment and frustration" felt by many
> civil society participants. More... http://www.worldsummit2003.org/
> =========
>
> Send comments to wsisyouthkenya@yahoogroups.com !
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> wsisyouthkenya-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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Hi All,
    I have installed the RedHat Linux AS(Application Server) 2.1 in my
system. While installing the server itself i choose all the c
packages and libraries but it has not installed the c packages. Then
when i was trying to find out some of the missing rpm and after that
when i installed from the CD by this command received the errors as
follows:
------------------------------------------------------------
rpm -ivh cpp-2.96-108.1.i386.rpm
glibc-devel-2.2.4-26.i386.rpm gcc-2.96-108.1.i386.rpm
binutils-2.11.90.0.8-12.i386.rpm


warning: Expected size:      1866939 =
lead(96)+sigs(181)+pad(3)+data(1866659)
warning:   Actual size:       363947
Preparing...
########################################### [100%]
    1:cpp                    error: unpacking of
archive failed on file
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/2.96/cpp0;3f17f813:
cpio: MD5 sum mismatch
    1:glibc-devel            error: unpacking of
archive failed on file /usr/include/dirent.h;3f17f813:
cpio: MD5 sum mismatch
warning: Expected size:      1866939 =
lead(96)+sigs(181)+pad(3)+data(1866659)
warning:   Actual size:       363947
    1:binutils               error: unpacking of
archive failed on file /usr/bin/readelf;3f17f813:
cpio: read
    1:gcc                    error: unpacking of
archive failed on file
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/2.96/cc1;3f17f813:
cpio: MD5 sum mismatch
----------------------------------------------------------------

i have tried downloading binutil library from the redhat also again
received the same error. It would be helpful when anyone give the
suggession for this.

Thanks & Regards,
Ravisankar.L

Hello all, Here are eye witness accounts of how the Bush visit is hurting the
Senegalese people.


> jojo jo <jmn20002@...> wrote:
> hi there
>
> that is real big brother in his quest for the new world oder
>
> talking about big brother and uncle sam you may be pleased to visit a website
> talking about echelon and see what privacy means these days
>
> hata hii ninayoandika wameichungulia tena kwa kiswahili yakhe
>
>
> cheers
>
>
>
> Al-Amin Yusuph <yalaminy@...> wrote:
> David
> Yes, Your email was off-topic. But looking at the
> issues from the ICT point of view your email makes so
> much sense.
>
> Just to summarise: If this behaviour continues in the
> next few years, we may be snooped even by the
> computers and software that we use. We will lose our
> privacy completely. It seems as days go on, every
> territory, including your purchased software and
> computer may slowly become nobody's property, but big
> brother's, and will be used by Big brother to snoop
> you under your very nose.
>
> Regards
>
> Al-Amin
>
>
> --- "David J.A. Sawe" <david.sawe@...>
> wrote:
> > Hello eThinkers,
> >
> > Sorry for this off-topic cross-posting from another
> > list, but I believe that
> > many of us will be interested in this
> > from-the-ground report, as we've
> > experienced President Clinton's visit to Arusha.  At
> > that time, most people
> > felt the arrangements were paranoid.  Apparently
> > many roads were closed, our
> > own President's car was searched by US security
> > forces, cell-phone nextworks
> > were jammed, local journalists segregated,
> > airports&airspace temporarily
> > became property of US Air Force, etc., and havoc was
> > generally brought upon
> > the people of Arusha.
> >
> > Now it seems that we were very lucky.  That visit
> > came along before 9/11 and
> > the ensuing military expeditions against Osama and
> > Saddam.  Besides,
> > President Clinton and his family showed a genuine
> > interest in our culture
> > and natural resources, hence the publicity generated
> > was rather beneficial
> > to us.  By contrast, the briefing below from someone
> > in Dakar suggests we
> > ought to be thankful that our cities were *NOT* on
> > George W. Bush's African
> > itinerary during this past week!
> >
> > Regards,
> > David.
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:44 PM
> > Subject: Bush's visit to Senegal
> >
> > Dearest friends,
> >
> > As you probably know, this week George Bush is
> > visiting Africa. Starting
> > with Senegal, he arrived this morning at 7.20 PM and
> > left at 1.30 PM. This
> > visit has been such an ordeal that a petition is
> > being circulated for this
> > Tuesday July 8th be named Dependency Day.
> >
> > Let me share with you what we have been through
> > since last week.
> >
> > 1.      Arrestations : more than 1,500 persons have
> > been arrested and put in
> > jail between Thursday and Monday. Hopefully they
> > will be released now that
> > the Big Man is gone
> > 2.      The US Army's planes flying day and nigh
> > over Dakar. The noise they
> > make is so loud that one hardly sleeps at night
> > 3.      About 700 security people from the US for
> > Bush's security in
> > Senegal, with their dogs, and their  cars.
> > Senegalese security forces were
> > not allowed to come near the US president
> > 4.      All trees in places where Bush will pass
> > have been cut. Some of them
> > have more than 100 years
> > 5.      All roads going down town (were hospitals,
> > businesses, schools are
> > located) were closed from Monday night to Tuesday at
> > 3 PM. This means that
> > we could not go to our offices or schools. Sick
> > people were also obliged to
> > stay at home.
> > 6.      National exams for high schools that started
> > on Monday are postponed
> > until Wednesday.
> >
> > Bush's visit to the Goree Island is another story.
> > As you may know Goree is
> > a small Island facing Dakar where from the 15th to
> > the 19th century, the
> > African slaves to be shipped to America were parked
> > in special houses called
> > slave houses. One of these houses has become a
> > Museum to remind humanity
> > about this dark period and has been visited by
> > kings, queens, presidents.
> > Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton, and before them,
> > Nelson Mandela, the
> > Pope, and many other distinguished guests or
> > ordinary tourists visited it
> > without bothering the islanders. But for "security
> > reasons" this time, the
> > local population was chased out of their houses from
> > 5 to 12 AM. They were
> > forced by the American security to leave their
> > houses and leaves everything
> > open, including their wardrobes to be searched by
> > special dogs brought from
> > the US.
> > The ferry that links the island to Dakar was stopped
> > and offices and
> > businesses closed for the day.
> >
> > According to an economist who was interviewed by a
> > private radio, Senegal
> > that is a very poor country has lost huge amount of
> > money in this visit,
> > because workers have been prevented from walking out
> > of their homes.
> >
> > In addition to us being prevented to go out, other
> > humiliating things
> > happened also. Not only Bush brought did not want to
> > be with Senegalese but
> > he did not want to use our things. He brought his
> > own armchairs, and of
> > course his own cars, and meals and drinks. He came
> > with his own journalists
> > and ours were forbidden inside the airport and in
> > place he was visiting.
> >
> > Our president was not allowed to make a speech. Only
> > Bush spoke when he was
> > in Goree. He spoke about slavery. It seems that he
> > needs the vote of the
> > African American to be elected in the next
> > elections, and wanted to please
> > them. That's why he visited Goree.
> >
> > Several protest marches against American politics
> > have been organized
> > yesterday and even when Bush was here, but we think
> > he does not care.
> >
> > We have the feeling that everything has been done to
> > convince us that we are
> > nothing, and that America can behave the way it
> > wants, everywhere, even in
> > our country.
> > Believe me friends, it is a terrible feeling. But
> > according to a Ugandan
> > friend of mine, I should not complain because it
> > Uganda one of the country
> > he is going to visit, Bush does not intend to go out
> > of the airport. He will
> > receive the Ugandan President in the airport lounge.
> >
> > Nevertheless, I think I am lucky, because I have
> > such wonderful American
> > friends. But there are now thousands of Senegalese
> > who believe that for all
> > Americans the world is their territory.
> >
> > Love to you all
> >
> > C.


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

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Well, I think that free software offers the option of not having to take th
"robin hood" route and allow all participating members to be part of society
that is above all suspicion.

This is important becWell, I think that free software offers the option of not
having to take th
"robin hood" route and allow all participating members to be part of society
that is above all suspicion.

This is important because the Microsoft Corporation is very guilty of
anti-trust violations, meaning squashing free competition by forming monopolies
and cartels.

They also capture or destroy their subcontractors at will which ultimately
destroys the free and fair market process and winds up installing a
particularly corrupt from of control not very different from soviet ism.

So using their software is similar to stealing their software.  By stealing it
you justify what they do by allowing them to put you into a bad category,
making their own control crimes seem ethical.

Publicly owned software entirely frees the population this kind of guilt.  The
down side of free software is quality assurance.

As I mentioned, I hope to relieve this problem with a semi-commercial release
called SOY.  I also believe that the digital bridge and the inclusion of more
women are essential to bringing up the ICT population up to achieving critical
mass.

John



--- Yaacov Iland <yaacov@...> wrote:
>     Hi John
>
> > You bring up valid points, except one.. you are making yourself liable for
> > prosecution under international copyright laws, and, well, stealing is
> still
> > wrong.
>     If that's the general you, then yes, if you specifically mean our
> organisation, then no, our software is legit, we just can't expand at all.
> Most people in this part of rural Kenya, and I suspect the rest of rural
> Africa, are liable for prosecution. Right now there's no one prosecuting them
> though, so the ethics of stealing don't bother them much. If they did, we
> could have an interesting discussion over whether knowledge can really be
> owned. :-)
>
> > Also all new Microsoft OSs require registration.  So you are working w/ old
> crap.
>     However, we can't run the new stuff anyway because our hardware is also
> old, so the registration aspect isn't limiting us.
>     Also Win98 is a decent OS as far as MS OSes go.
>
> > My goal is to create a global linux distribution that addresses all these
> issues.
>     Cool! I'd be very interested in helping out. I'm not much of a
> programmer, but if there's anything else I can help with, do let me know.
>
>     Best,
>     Yaacov
> --
> Yaacov Iland
> Computer Geek in Kenya
> http://theorem.ca/~yaacov/kenya.php
>   :~~~~~
>   so if you're thinking about being a spaceman
>   it don't matter if you're black or white
>   or purple or green or blue or red
>   or yellow with polka dots on your head
>   ~~~~~:
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> wsisyouthkenya-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

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Sometimes sourceforge doesn't cooperate.

There is GNU Savanah, but I dont see why the WSIS/UN doesn't start providing
similar services.  Their security requirements would be a no-brainer for having
a good number of admins available to provide quick response so patches don't
fall through the cracks.

I could use a list of reasons why Africa needs its own Linux.  Language is
obviously primary and so is legacy hardware support.

I also think that the new VIA EPIA motherboards are useful because they
optionally operate from car batteries and don't require cooling.  Helping
develop an specific market would allow Africa to dictate how their systems
should be configured.  It may also encourage Asian manufacturers to open plants
in, at least, the more stable countries.

Maybe the GNU folks should be brought into the conversation, I am sure that
they will at least be interested.

John


--- S Woodside <sbwoodside@...> wrote:
> Is there a Linux-In-Africa group? There should be at least a mailing
> list for people in Africa who use linux. It would be easy to set using
> sourceforge.
>
> simon
>
> On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 05:50  AM, Yaacov Iland wrote:
>
> >     Hello,
> >
> >> "Countries in Africa are gradually adopting strategies that promote
> >> the use of
> >> Linux as an alternative to Windows, and South Africa is leading the
> >> charge,
> >> with the government's recent approval of an open source software
> >> adoption plan.
> >
> >     I'm not convinced that Linux is currently a good choice for Africa
> > except organisations with lots of money. I hope that will change,
> > because I think that in the long term continuing to use Windows is
> > going to be exceptionally costly.
> >     I'm currently working at a small computer training NGO in rural
> > Kenya. We've been trying to move our computers from Windows to Linux
> > and have been finding it a very difficult process. I'm currently
> > writing a report about our experience in the hopes of getting the free
> > software community to pay more attention to the needs of poorer
> > organisations in Africa. The basic needs that we've identified are:
> >
> > -drivers for old hardware
> >     Our computers (and those of every school in our district) are
> > purchased second hand through organisations like World Computer
> > Exchange. We have had a lot of trouble with Linux because the drivers
> > that are packaged with distros don't work with our hardware.
> >
> > -a GUI and Office software that needs less than 128MB of RAM
> >     Most of our computers have 32 MB of RAM. Several have only 16MB.
> > Win95/98 and Office 97 run at quite reasonable speeds, but the Linux
> > GUIs we've tried are all far too slow for teaching use. If we also run
> > KOffice or OpenOffice, they're even slower (45 mins to load OpenOffice
> > in KDE!).
> >
> > -an easy installation and configuration process
> >     Casual users shy away from installing Windows, and installing
> > Linux is far more complex. We can't afford to bring in a technician
> > every time we want to install or change the configuration of the OS.
> > The best answer to this we've found is Knoppix, a distro that boots
> > straight for the CD. Unfortunately, most of our computers don't have
> > CD ROM drives.
> >
> >     The result of all this is that Linux costs a lot more than using
> > unlicensed MS software, particularly in terms of the necessary
> > hardware upgrades. Since the vast majority of computer users in Africa
> > don't buy licenses, MS is currently a cheaper, easier way to go for
> > them. If the OSS community wants Linux to become big in Africa, it
> > needs to produce drivers for old equipment, a lighter GUI and a
> > simpler install process. Other, less effective alternatives, are
> > convincing the second-hand computer suppliers to provide computers
> > with Linux already installed or to wait four or five years when second
> > hand computers will be today's new computers.
> >
> >     All the best,
> >     Yaacov
> > --
> > Yaacov Iland
> > Computer Geek in Kenya
> > http://theorem.ca/~yaacov/kenya.php
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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Is there a Linux-In-Africa group? There should be at least a mailing
list for people in Africa who use linux. It would be easy to set using
sourceforge.

simon

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 05:50  AM, Yaacov Iland wrote:

>     Hello,
>
>> "Countries in Africa are gradually adopting strategies that promote
>> the use of
>> Linux as an alternative to Windows, and South Africa is leading the
>> charge,
>> with the government's recent approval of an open source software
>> adoption plan.
>
>     I'm not convinced that Linux is currently a good choice for Africa
> except organisations with lots of money. I hope that will change,
> because I think that in the long term continuing to use Windows is
> going to be exceptionally costly.
>     I'm currently working at a small computer training NGO in rural
> Kenya. We've been trying to move our computers from Windows to Linux
> and have been finding it a very difficult process. I'm currently
> writing a report about our experience in the hopes of getting the free
> software community to pay more attention to the needs of poorer
> organisations in Africa. The basic needs that we've identified are:
>
> -drivers for old hardware
>     Our computers (and those of every school in our district) are
> purchased second hand through organisations like World Computer
> Exchange. We have had a lot of trouble with Linux because the drivers
> that are packaged with distros don't work with our hardware.
>
> -a GUI and Office software that needs less than 128MB of RAM
>     Most of our computers have 32 MB of RAM. Several have only 16MB.
> Win95/98 and Office 97 run at quite reasonable speeds, but the Linux
> GUIs we've tried are all far too slow for teaching use. If we also run
> KOffice or OpenOffice, they're even slower (45 mins to load OpenOffice
> in KDE!).
>
> -an easy installation and configuration process
>     Casual users shy away from installing Windows, and installing
> Linux is far more complex. We can't afford to bring in a technician
> every time we want to install or change the configuration of the OS.
> The best answer to this we've found is Knoppix, a distro that boots
> straight for the CD. Unfortunately, most of our computers don't have
> CD ROM drives.
>
>     The result of all this is that Linux costs a lot more than using
> unlicensed MS software, particularly in terms of the necessary
> hardware upgrades. Since the vast majority of computer users in Africa
> don't buy licenses, MS is currently a cheaper, easier way to go for
> them. If the OSS community wants Linux to become big in Africa, it
> needs to produce drivers for old equipment, a lighter GUI and a
> simpler install process. Other, less effective alternatives, are
> convincing the second-hand computer suppliers to provide computers
> with Linux already installed or to wait four or five years when second
> hand computers will be today's new computers.
>
>     All the best,
>     Yaacov
> --
> Yaacov Iland
> Computer Geek in Kenya
> http://theorem.ca/~yaacov/kenya.php

You bring up valid points, except one.. you are making yourself liable for
prosecution under international copyright laws, and, well, stealing is still
wrong.

Also all new Microsoft OSs require registration.  So you are working w/ old
crap.

My goal is to create a global linux distribution that addresses all these
issues.

Hopefully, emerging nations will see this and develop school curriculums to
help develop their own ICTs.



--- Yaacov Iland <yaacov@...> wrote:
>     Hello,
>
> > "Countries in Africa are gradually adopting strategies that promote the use
> of
> > Linux as an alternative to Windows, and South Africa is leading the charge,
> > with the government's recent approval of an open source software adoption
> plan.
>
>     I'm not convinced that Linux is currently a good choice for Africa except
> organisations with lots of money. I hope that will change, because I think
> that in the long term continuing to use Windows is going to be exceptionally
> costly.
>     I'm currently working at a small computer training NGO in rural Kenya.
> We've been trying to move our computers from Windows to Linux and have been
> finding it a very difficult process. I'm currently writing a report about our
> experience in the hopes of getting the free software community to pay more
> attention to the needs of poorer organisations in Africa. The basic needs
> that we've identified are:
>
> -drivers for old hardware
>     Our computers (and those of every school in our district) are purchased
> second hand through organisations like World Computer Exchange. We have had a
> lot of trouble with Linux because the drivers that are packaged with distros
> don't work with our hardware.
>
> -a GUI and Office software that needs less than 128MB of RAM
>     Most of our computers have 32 MB of RAM. Several have only 16MB. Win95/98
> and Office 97 run at quite reasonable speeds, but the Linux GUIs we've tried
> are all far too slow for teaching use. If we also run KOffice or OpenOffice,
> they're even slower (45 mins to load OpenOffice in KDE!).
>
> -an easy installation and configuration process
>     Casual users shy away from installing Windows, and installing Linux is
> far more complex. We can't afford to bring in a technician every time we want
> to install or change the configuration of the OS. The best answer to this
> we've found is Knoppix, a distro that boots straight for the CD.
> Unfortunately, most of our computers don't have CD ROM drives.
>
>     The result of all this is that Linux costs a lot more than using
> unlicensed MS software, particularly in terms of the necessary hardware
> upgrades. Since the vast majority of computer users in Africa don't buy
> licenses, MS is currently a cheaper, easier way to go for them. If the OSS
> community wants Linux to become big in Africa, it needs to produce drivers
> for old equipment, a lighter GUI and a simpler install process. Other, less
> effective alternatives, are convincing the second-hand computer suppliers to
> provide computers with Linux already installed or to wait four or five years
> when second hand computers will be today's new computers.
>
>     All the best,
>     Yaacov
> --
> Yaacov Iland
> Computer Geek in Kenya
> http://theorem.ca/~yaacov/kenya.php
>   :~~~~~
>   so if you're thinking about being a spaceman
>   it don't matter if you're black or white
>   or purple or green or blue or red
>   or yellow with polka dots on your head
>   ~~~~~:
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
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Hello,

> "Countries in Africa are gradually adopting strategies that promote the use of
> Linux as an alternative to Windows, and South Africa is leading the charge,
> with the government's recent approval of an open source software adoption
plan.

     I'm not convinced that Linux is currently a good choice for Africa except
organisations with lots of money. I hope that will change, because I think that
in the long term continuing to use Windows is going to be exceptionally costly.
     I'm currently working at a small computer training NGO in rural Kenya. We've
been trying to move our computers from Windows to Linux and have been finding it
a very difficult process. I'm currently writing a report about our experience in
the hopes of getting the free software community to pay more attention to the
needs of poorer organisations in Africa. The basic needs that we've identified
are:

-drivers for old hardware
     Our computers (and those of every school in our district) are purchased
second hand through organisations like World Computer Exchange. We have had a
lot of trouble with Linux because the drivers that are packaged with distros
don't work with our hardware.

-a GUI and Office software that needs less than 128MB of RAM
     Most of our computers have 32 MB of RAM. Several have only 16MB. Win95/98
and Office 97 run at quite reasonable speeds, but the Linux GUIs we've tried are
all far too slow for teaching use. If we also run KOffice or OpenOffice, they're
even slower (45 mins to load OpenOffice in KDE!).

-an easy installation and configuration process
     Casual users shy away from installing Windows, and installing Linux is far
more complex. We can't afford to bring in a technician every time we want to
install or change the configuration of the OS. The best answer to this we've
found is Knoppix, a distro that boots straight for the CD. Unfortunately, most
of our computers don't have CD ROM drives.

     The result of all this is that Linux costs a lot more than using unlicensed
MS software, particularly in terms of the necessary hardware upgrades. Since the
vast majority of computer users in Africa don't buy licenses, MS is currently a
cheaper, easier way to go for them. If the OSS community wants Linux to become
big in Africa, it needs to produce drivers for old equipment, a lighter GUI and
a simpler install process. Other, less effective alternatives, are convincing
the second-hand computer suppliers to provide computers with Linux already
installed or to wait four or five years when second hand computers will be
today's new computers.

     All the best,
     Yaacov
--
Yaacov Iland
Computer Geek in Kenya
http://theorem.ca/~yaacov/kenya.php
   :~~~~~
   so if you're thinking about being a spaceman
   it don't matter if you're black or white
   or purple or green or blue or red
   or yellow with polka dots on your head
   ~~~~~:

From InfoWorld:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/07/08/HNafrolinux_1.html

"Countries in Africa are gradually adopting strategies that promote the use of
Linux as an alternative to Windows, and South Africa is leading the charge,
with the government's recent approval of an open source software adoption plan.

"Meanwhile Nigeria, which had been lagging behind other countries on the
continent in terms of open-source adoption, also has made some moves to adopt
Linux in the public education sector.

"The South African cabinet of ministers last month made one of the most
decisive moves in Africa toward open-source software adoption, approving the
Government Open Source Software strategy. The policy was put together by South
Africa's Government Information Technology Officers Council (GITOC), which
comprises government-agency chief information officers..."



--- Apollo BS Temu <apollo_temu@...> wrote:
> To: eThinkTankTz@yahoogroups.com
> From: "Apollo BS Temu" <apollo_temu@...>
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:09:07 -0000
> Subject: [www.eThinkTankTz.org] LINUX in Africa
>
> Could be of some interest to some of you:
> http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2003070902026NWLLPB
>
> Regards,
> Apollo
>
>
>
> If you do not want to receive emails from eThinkTankTz, then please send a
> blank email to:
> eThinkTankTz-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

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This is added to Gentoo and OpenBSD now for buffer overflow protection.


===============================================
  What's the stack-smashing protector?

It is a GCC (Gnu Compiler Collection) extension for protecting applications
from stack-smashing attacks. Applications written in C will be protected by the
method that automatically inserts protection code into an application at
compilation time. The protection is realized by buffer overflow detection and
the variable reordering feature to avoid the corruption of pointers. The basic
idea of buffer overflow detection comes from StackGuard system.


http://www.trl.ibm.com/projects/security/ssp/
===============================================

=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
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Hello,

In doing research on rendering technology, I was very excited to see Oeone's
application of Gecko to embedded devices.

Presently, I am developing an architecture that converges a lot of relevant
technology into devices that can be used by emerging nations and presented to
Information Society of UNESCO.

I would like to understand Oeone's plans and directions with respect to the
future of embedded applications, presumably in the absence of X11 to see if
there is reason to believe that this technology may benefit the 5 billion or so
humans isolated from networked communications.  This represents a huge market,
of course.

If in fact the momentum in strong, I would also like to develop cirriculum
through my organization, The Linux Society, where high school students could
enhance Penzilla by learning XUL and using Gecko based browsers as a defaut
interface for all computer needs rather than relying on the present hodge-podge
of windowing tools.

I was discouraged by the fact that your mailing list was not functioning and I
am hoping that you can give me relevant information sometime soon so I can
suggest the technology to rest of the Information Society.

John van Vlaanderen



=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
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Dear Karen and other list members,

I am looking for some suggestions in writing a paper that wound consider
"Utopian" uses of the newly extended ICTs in the Information Society.

Below is kind of a long email, but I am sending it to my degree mentor hoping
that he too can make suggestions to help me develop a truly beneficial
document.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, John


=================

I saw a call for papers on feminism in ICTs and in the first paragraph there
is a reference to "hunting and gathering" communities.  My only contribution
to feminism would be to try to determine how to involve more women in open
source projects.  In comparison, such rural and isolated communities present a
much wider challenge for me.

These small societies have huge potential contributions for the information
society in the forms of culture and the arts as well as medicine.
Contrastingly, their hunting practices have to to stop because SARS, AIDS and
now the monkey pox are all derived from bush meat.  Also my personal belief is
that the act of gunning down innocent wildlife is a contributor to the
socio-illnesses of homicide and genocide.

The challenge would be to enable allow them to introduce their cultures intact
and develop their economies to benefit their existing social structures, minus
the few bad traits they have developed in absence of the modern benefits.  The
introduction of nitrogen-fixing agriculture and attainable medicine and two-way
messaging are examples of benefits that could help these communities attain
permanent stability and informed consent.

The option, unfortunately, is to allow corrupt elements within expansionist
organizations to suppress traditional values and elevate sychophants who will
make absurd declarations.  They will promote suchvalueless western
contributions as fast food, terminator crops and endless advertising.  To deny
them this, they will say, is to deny them their right to be subjugated in
structures modeled after American slavery and environmental deprecation and, in
some cases, Sovietism and Nazism.

I have actually heard this from well traveled college students accuse me of
trying to impact their rights to empty nutrition and content-free
entertainment because this is what they really want.  The urgency is for the
preservation of cultural meaning internally and ICTs appear to be a way to
solidify benefits in the face of global onslaught from every direction.

I have been corresponding with a lot of the wireless techs in the information
society field and suggesting both technical and economic solutions based on
what has worked here in the US over the past decade -- or has not worked.  The
Tanzanians and Kenyans seem really receptive to suggestions that a bootstrap
economy would benefit from a large number of smaller startups. While there
would be consolidation of smaller firms as economies grow, an independent and
efficient spirit would prevail for years to come.

There are many sources suggesting that increased numbers of ICTs will actually
increase bandwidth to the n-th degree.  This promotes the concept of widely
distributed cheap relay/routing devices in every durable machine.

So my thought is to explore ways to benefit villagers, including those who have
moved to urban areas.

XML, for example, is useful for building communication and documentation tools
because its neutral nature allows components to be integrated or detached along
agreed data definitions.  This allows for a smooth transition between common
messages to a highly structured body of knowledge. Technically speaking, these
definitions are either DTDs or Schemas.



=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

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Hello all,

  It is generally agreed that new languages need to be created because, like
  goldielocks and the three bears found, nothing is ever perfect for
  everything.


  The perl6 VM called parrot sports two interesting tiny langauges.  One is
  Jako, a hybridized version of C and Perl.  Another is Cola which resembles
  Java.

  I have emailed the Jako author to discuss the language.

  Jako:
  http://thinman.dyndns.org/parrot/jako.html

  Cola:
  http://search.cpan.org/src/SFINK/parrot-0.0.10/languages/cola/README

  Here is the letter:

  ====================
  Hello Gregor,

  I have been captivated by the concept of your langauge because I honesty
  believe that there are needs for a new and more practical language.

  More specifically, I see the need in an area of expansion called the
  "Information Society" which is a global effort supported by UNESCO and
  presently led by the techie youth of Kenya and Tanzania.

  I developing a degree project in my "open wall" school, Empire State College
  of
  SUNY.  Unfortunately I am not finding too much information on your langauge
  on
  the net though I would very much like to include it in my paper as a "proof
  of
  concept" ;) .

  My goal is this paper is to cross polinate the technical concepts w/ the
  social
  goals and the pathways to, well, a better world.

  I would be grateful for synopsis content which I could use, especially the
  philosophy of the language and its relationship to Parrot.

  I am also looking to create content on Parrot itself but I am finding that
  the
  Perl6 internals group has, well, internalized in our usual geeky manner.

  The open ICT folks (the systems behind the information society, information
  communication technology, non-gramatical) also tend to dive into technology.
  Simon Woodside, creator of "openict" acutally suggested docbook when I asked
  for suggestions for my paper having never written a scholarly one before.  (
  I
  was a mechanic then spent 13 yrs in wall street critical systems )

  Thanks in Advance,

  John


  --- "Gregor N. Purdy" <gregor@...> wrote:
> > All --
> >
> > I just checked in changes that add real (for some values of "real")
> > modules to Jako. The lexer now handles #line directives, and
> > intercepts 'use <module>', bringing in the lines from the
> > appropriate file to be lexed.
> >
> > The Jako Standard Library (languages/jako/*.jako, including sys,
> > string and Curses) is now used by the examples as a proof of
> > concept.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -- Gregor
> >
> > --
> > Gregor Purdy                            gregor@...
> > Focus Research, Inc.               http://www.focusresearch.com/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
> President, The Linux Society
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
> linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
> ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc
>
> __________________________________
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=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

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If both your computers are hooked up directly to the 'net then you have to
check that the inetd or xinetd have all their services running correctly.

You can check this by telnet-ing to localhost on both machines (actually SSH is
the only login and transport tool you should be using, more when you get
started)

If you can telnet to your own box and not to the other one then the ports are
closed somewhere.  Do you have cable modem routers ??  These block all
connections coming in.  Mine, Seimens, has a web server on board which you use
to open ports and stuff from your PC.

Otherwise there may be security restrictions in the form of a firewall.

Which linux are you using ??

John


--- Neshawn Barrow <blackchild2003@...> wrote:
> I am useing a cable service Optimum online, It's a
> dynamic server(this could be of some help)
>
> __________________________________
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>
>
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>
>


=====
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
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I am useing a cable service Optimum online, It's a
dynamic server(this could be of some help)

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Hi, if pinging works and telnet doesn't then your ports are closed some where
between the two.

What kind of internet connections do you have ??


--- Neshawn Barrow <blackchild2003@...> wrote:
> The Ping works. Now what else can be done?
>
> __________________________________
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>
>
>
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>
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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The Ping works. Now what else can be done?

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That is really cool, using the internet as your personal LAN.

First thing to try is the ping command to the other IP address.

If you dont know the other address, then http://www.whatismyipaddress.com will
tell you.

You can use the wget command to get text only.

Tell us if ping works... then we can fix the other problems.

John


--- Neshawn Barrow <blackchild2003@...> wrote:
> Me and my friend is trying to share a printer via
> internet, we are  also trying to connect whit each
> other remotly, but there seems to be a problem when we
> use telnet, ftp, or ssh, they don't seem to work.
> Could anyone referrer us to some reading materials
> that might help us better understand howw to solve
> this problem. by the way we are using Linux.
>
> __________________________________
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>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
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Me and my friend is trying to share a printer via
internet, we are  also trying to connect whit each
other remotly, but there seems to be a problem when we
use telnet, ftp, or ssh, they don't seem to work.
Could anyone referrer us to some reading materials
that might help us better understand howw to solve
this problem. by the way we are using Linux.

__________________________________
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First thought is that the kernel might not be set for the ACLs.  I am in the
Salt Lake City, Utah public library which has sadly refused to go Linux :(

http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-acl/
This linux kernel patch / user code combination allows supporting full access
control lists (ACLs) for the Linux kernel.

I am not sure if it is a loadable module or compiled into the kernel, if a
module then you can test for that.

My other thought is that I think you can make a group of groups by adding group
names to a group.

HTH John





--- indian_techie_mgr <indian_techie_mgr@...> wrote:
> Hi Techies/ Nerds/ Geeks,
>
>  I'm working on Linux Rehat 8.0 and finding major problems in
> implementing ACLs since last 2 months!!! Request u to pls help
> me..thanx!
>
> Details of  my system:
>
> I am working on Linux Red Hat 8.0/7.2 and using ACLs..
> vsftpd daemon is installed for ftp service....have set all parameters
> all
> working fine..
> i  have problem with only one group i.e. admin group - to assign read
> and write permissions to more than one
> group on the same directory - solution to this problem i found is if
> i set
> default acl on the directories then i dont need to do it for each
> level of
> users, if only set on  the first level of users it will inherit
> accordingly...
> Whenever i run the command setfacl with --test option it displays the
> resulting entries but does not leave the effect of the displayed
> entries.....as i am trying in test mode. If i dont use this option i
> get
> the error
>
> "setfacl:<directory name/file name>:Function not implemented"
>
>  details:
>
> default umask:022
>
> local_umask (in vsftpd.conf file):022 (so that when a user uploads a
> file
> through FTP the permissions are set accordingly)
> chrooting is enabled..
>
> the groups and users created are as follows:
>
> groups:
>
> ftpusers - all users will belong to this group ...this wont be the
> primary
> group for any user....
> admin - top authorities remaining in the list are different
> departments
> petro - users belonging to these departments
> harp -       "                     "
> IT     -       "                      "
> ...
> ....and so on........
> ..
>
> This way no. of departments present in organisation
>
> Directory structure is as follows: (created by root user)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> /(root)
>       ->FTPRead
>       (owner: root, group: ftpusers)
>             -> Admin
>                 (owner:root, primary group:admin)
>             ->Petro
>             (owner: root, primary group: petro)
>                   ->PTA
>                   (owner: root,primary group: petro)
>             ->HARP
>             (owner: root, primary group: harp)
>                   ->BPCL
>                   (owner: root, primary group: harp)
>             ->IT
>             (owner: root, primary group: IT)
>
> users:
> 1)mrs
> group: admin
> home directory: /FTPRead
>
> 2)ps
> group: petro
> home directroy: /FTPRead
>
> 3)asd
> group: harp
> home directroy: /FTPRead
>
> 4)sk
> group: IT
> home directroy: /FTPRead
>
>
> i want to set the default acl entry that will be set on admin group n
> have
> effect on FTPRead folder...how to do it?
>
> let us.. once for a moment forget about ftp.. just create a directory
> structure
> and groups consisting users....and then u want to give access to only
> one
> group on the whole structure....how will u set acl entries?
>
> pl c if any1 can help me on this...
>
> trillions of thanx in advance..would appreciate prompt reply
>
> best regards,
> techie indian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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Hi Techies/ Nerds/ Geeks,

  I'm working on Linux Rehat 8.0 and finding major problems in
implementing ACLs since last 2 months!!! Request u to pls help
me..thanx!

Details of  my system:

I am working on Linux Red Hat 8.0/7.2 and using ACLs..
vsftpd daemon is installed for ftp service....have set all parameters
all
working fine..
i  have problem with only one group i.e. admin group - to assign read
and write permissions to more than one
group on the same directory - solution to this problem i found is if
i set
default acl on the directories then i dont need to do it for each
level of
users, if only set on  the first level of users it will inherit
accordingly...
Whenever i run the command setfacl with --test option it displays the
resulting entries but does not leave the effect of the displayed
entries.....as i am trying in test mode. If i dont use this option i
get
the error

"setfacl:<directory name/file name>:Function not implemented"

  details:

default umask:022

local_umask (in vsftpd.conf file):022 (so that when a user uploads a
file
through FTP the permissions are set accordingly)
chrooting is enabled..

the groups and users created are as follows:

groups:

ftpusers - all users will belong to this group ...this wont be the
primary
group for any user....
admin - top authorities remaining in the list are different
departments
petro - users belonging to these departments
harp -       "                     "
IT     -       "                      "
...
....and so on........
..

This way no. of departments present in organisation

Directory structure is as follows: (created by root user)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
/(root)
       ->FTPRead
       (owner: root, group: ftpusers)
             -> Admin
                 (owner:root, primary group:admin)
             ->Petro
             (owner: root, primary group: petro)
                   ->PTA
                   (owner: root,primary group: petro)
             ->HARP
             (owner: root, primary group: harp)
                   ->BPCL
                   (owner: root, primary group: harp)
             ->IT
             (owner: root, primary group: IT)

users:
1)mrs
group: admin
home directory: /FTPRead

2)ps
group: petro
home directroy: /FTPRead

3)asd
group: harp
home directroy: /FTPRead

4)sk
group: IT
home directroy: /FTPRead


i want to set the default acl entry that will be set on admin group n
have
effect on FTPRead folder...how to do it?

let us.. once for a moment forget about ftp.. just create a directory
structure
and groups consisting users....and then u want to give access to only
one
group on the whole structure....how will u set acl entries?

pl c if any1 can help me on this...

trillions of thanx in advance..would appreciate prompt reply

best regards,
techie indian

Thank you for your interest, Danny.

The Linux Society is reforming from being a local education organization for
New York City high school students to a global information integration
organization.

I am a student in a "school with no walls" working on my first degree.  Rather
than having teachers, we have mentors who guide our independant studies.  My
mentor is very interested in the Information Society and I am presently
searching for a format for my paper on the benefits of open ICTs.

Possibly we can work together in forming documents.

I also invite you to join the linux society.  Please introduce yourselves
there.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society/join

Linux is a no-brainer for the Information Society.  It is free and popular with
corporate America.  Yet it is still not ready to be able to support the
integration of the majority of humans who happen to be isolated and often
deliberately kept poor.

I have been working on a model of a future OS called the ThinMan and an
adapation of Linux called SOY --> http://www.thinman.com

Unfortunately I have been having trouble finding work in the computer field in
the USA so I have been forced to travel.  I am presently in Salt Lake City,
Utah.

I discovered Open ICT and found these links interesting.

http://openict.net/projects/wireless-longhaul/wiki/view/AxKit/Links

http://openict.net/projects/openspectrum/

http://www.frars.org.uk/cgi-bin/render.pl?pageid=999999



--- The Youth Agenda <yaa@...> wrote:
> Hi John,
> My name is Danny from Kenya. Sorry, I had to write to you specifically
> because I thought this might not be useful to many in the group. I saw your
> e-mail a few days ago which had your title as president of the Linux Society
> and your interest in the information society that was being discussed in the
> yahoogroups and got interested.
>
> My colleagues and I have been discussing the issues of the digital divide
> and how it affects promotes inequity, and we are trying to see how this can
> be addressed. We are in touch with an information society by the name
> "Unarete"  in Italy, with a chapter in the U.S.( www.unarete.org ). We are
> trying to establish an African Chapter, Unarete-Africa, for which we have
> the President's blessings. One of the issues we shall address is the
> possibility of establishing a strong basis for use of open source here and
> indeed in Africa. I would therefore request if you could tell us how your
> organization can be of help here especially in providing information that
> can be useful to this end. This is a totally new concept here and we do not
> have information.
>
> Hope to hear from you soon.
>
> Danny Irungu
>
>
>
> "The trouble with our times is that the future is not what it used to be" -
> Paul Velery
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The Youth Agenda (YAA)
> P.O. Box 10174-00100, GPO
> Nairobi - Kenya
> Tel: +254-2-578 331/2
> TeleFax: +254-2-570 018
> Cell phone (Office)  : 0722 325 027 /  0733 425 438
> E-mail: yaa@...
> ------------------------------------
> The information in this E-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> are
> intended for the addressee only. If you received this message by error or
> are
> not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments
> and advise the sender by return E-mail.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John van V." <john_van_v@...>
> To: <wsisyouthkenya@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 09:36
> Subject: [wsisyouthkenya] Hello and Introduction
>
>
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I am a New Yorker who has recently become aware of the Information
> Society.  I
> > am the president of the Linux Society which is a youth mentoring
> organization
> > to develop both ICT knowledge and the disciplines associtated with
> critical
> > computer and communication operations.
> >
> > I was very active in social issues in NYC during the 80s and am a strong
> > follower of Malcolm X and Emma Goldman.  I embraced computers in 1990 to
> affect
> > the global transfer of technology.  The time is right !!
> >
> > Having said that.. I would be grateful for some background on what/how you
> are
> > trying accomplish the Information Society.  Generally, what is going on ??
> >
> > John
> >
> >
>
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

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My concern is the that there aren't enough developers for Amaya and that all
the added features in Amaya will have to be rewritten for Mozilla.

When you google on free html editors, Amaya comes up first.  It seems there a
large number of people at least want to use it in their everyday lives.  A huge
problem for public software is quality assurance.

I have found that amaya crashes often and unpredictably.  On the Mozilla side,
Bugzilla has been shut down, creating integrity problems for millions of users.
  Many products are built on top of it.

Gecko has been embraced by Gnome making it sanctified as a public project, but
the rapid changes in the renderer is making the Gnome source difficult to
maintain.

Here is a company that seems to want to build a whole desktop from Gecko where
their version of Gecko is Penzilla.  They are open and seem to be aiming for
the embedded markets.

http://oeone.com/developers/

If amaya were to work with Gecko then it seems that the Netscape product would
more closely adhere to the goals of the W3C.

John


--- Irene Vatton <irene.vatton@...> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:25:32 -0700 (PDT)
> "John van V." <john_van_v@...> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I have been using amaya like a word processor and I have been impressed
> > advanced Web spec and language support.
> >
> > But, I am wondering out loud why you have not considered porting to Gecko.
> > Personally, I dont know anybody that likes Mozilla's commercial side and it
> > feels like Gecko needs to be rescued from [ big conglomerate deleted ].
>
> This would be another project. When you change basic concepts, you're
> not doing a porting but you're developing a new project.
> I guess Netscape guys already develop a HTML editor based on Gecko.
>
> > Also, it seems that everything you write for amaya will have to be
> rewritten
> > for Gecko.. and.. lots of folks speak highly of XUL.
>
> I guess it's important to adopt standards for formats and data but that
> should
> not imply to have a unique tool.
>      Irene.
> -----
> Irène Vatton                     INRIA Rhône-Alpes
> INRIA                               ZIRST
> e-mail: Irene.Vatton@...       655 avenue de l'Europe
> Tel.: +33 4 76 61 53 61             Montbonnot
> Fax:  +33 4 76 61 52 07             38334 Saint Ismier Cedex - France
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:25:32 -0700 (PDT)
"John van V." <john_van_v@...> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I have been using amaya like a word processor and I have been impressed
> advanced Web spec and language support.
>
> But, I am wondering out loud why you have not considered porting to Gecko.
> Personally, I dont know anybody that likes Mozilla's commercial side and it
> feels like Gecko needs to be rescued from [ big conglomerate deleted ].

This would be another project. When you change basic concepts, you're
not doing a porting but you're developing a new project.
I guess Netscape guys already develop a HTML editor based on Gecko.

> Also, it seems that everything you write for amaya will have to be rewritten
> for Gecko.. and.. lots of folks speak highly of XUL.

I guess it's important to adopt standards for formats and data but that should
not imply to have a unique tool.
      Irene.
-----
Irène Vatton                     INRIA Rhône-Alpes
INRIA                               ZIRST
e-mail: Irene.Vatton@...       655 avenue de l'Europe
Tel.: +33 4 76 61 53 61             Montbonnot
Fax:  +33 4 76 61 52 07             38334 Saint Ismier Cedex - France

http://oenone.com

==============
email text
==============

Hi,

I am the president of the Linux Society and we are a professional and mentoring
group in New York City, but we are working with the United Nations to create
the "Information Society."

While looking for a word processor other than the typical Microsoft I happened
on Penzilla and I am very interested in find more about the product, your plans
to use it, and your opinions on the XUL language.

I am especially interested in the embedded applications you mentioned because I
think this may be especially valuable in the generalized "ICTs" of the Info
Society iniitiative.  An ICT is an information communication technology
[device].

The organization of this group is the WSIS, world symposium on the information
society.

I would also like to port it to my "SOY" operating system, which is Linux step
toward the "bare metal" system, which is similar to what people think of as
embedded.

BTW, I tired to join the mailing list a few times.

John


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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This looks pretty good.  Storage is the only way to get a job these days.

  John


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=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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This an email I sent to the Perl 6 development group about a compiler being
developed in the LinuxBIOS group called RomCC.  As you see below I thought they
might be a good fit.

LinuxBIOS        http://www.linuxbios.org/
Perl6 / Parrot   http://www.parrotcode.org/

====================

Hello all,

I am on the LinuxBIOS list and my gut sense told me that a compiler that they
are developing called romcc might be a fit for Parrot.

Since Parrot uses CPU style assembler as its native language, it might make
sense to match it with a compiler that can take advantage of this.

Along comes romcc.  The biggest problem w/ working in the BIOS is that you have
to initialize RAM.  That cannot be done in C because there is no RAM to do it
in.  Assembler is the only solution but thats an economic impossibility
sometimes because of the scaricity of linux folks versed it it.

So, sensibly, Eric Biederman <ebiederman@...> writes a small compiler that
uses registers instead of RAM hungry stacks.

Bingo !!  But I feel like an idiot since I have yet to write a line of C code
but in only about 5 emails, Eric tells me "Yeah, thats doable"


Me> Romcc uses registers, not stacks -- like the Perl6 Parrot VM

Eric> Actually quite a bit different.
Eric> Parrot will just not use stack oriented byte codes.   But a call/return
Eric> stack will still be required.  romcc does not use a call/return stack,
Eric> but romcc still implement subroutines.

Me> Is there any point in implementing the Perl6 VM in a version of romcc
Me> enhanced with a call/return stack as the only compromise toward the
Me> traditional VM ??

Eric> I simply do not understand the question.

Me> To be frank, this is my situation; I am in an "open" school where my
Me> mentor has told me that I am way over my computer credits

Eric> I hope this is at the high school level or else your computer credits
Eric> have not sunk in well at all.

Me> I meant to use romcc in a context separate from LinuxBIOS.
Me> It would be a custom compiler for Parrot itself, running with RAM, where
Me> CPU register style of Parrot would match the register reliance of Parrot
Me> -- with the one added call/return stack that you mentioned.

Eric> O.k. that makes more sense.  I have strong reservations about adding a
Eric> call/return stack.  But a port to the parrot VM without that should
Eric> be doable.


====================
Eric's romcc basics
====================

  Currently LinuxBIOS has a lot of assembly code simply because memory
  initialization is difficult in the general case.  This code cannot be
  written with a standard compiler because there is no memory to put
  a stack in.  Nor on x86 are there cache blocks that can be locked into
  place.  As code generated with romcc does not use a stack it can be
  used during memory initialization.

  It is true romcc is not *done*,  it is quite usable at this point.

  In the freebios2 I have been gradually making the primary API ones
  that can be used before  memory is initialized.

  The biggest difference is that if you want to return multiple values
  instead of passing in the address of a variable the a multi valued
  structure must be returned.

  The biggest current known bug is that if you have a small type
  like short when it is stored in a register nothing ensures it does not
  take on a larger value than will fit in a short.

  unsigned short i;
  i = 65535;
  i = i + 1;  /* i == 65536 oops */

  The biggest shortcoming comes from it's nature and

  I have used it enough at this point I don't want to live without it
  again.




=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

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Hi,

a) I am trying to focus on global ICT development.
b) If they want to advertise their services fine, they can create
    their own lists.

Most lists don't allow recruiter ads.

This list is very specific in its focus and all list members are going to be
asked to participate as soon as systems are go.

There are plenty of linux lists out there.

John



--- muphenrwhitney@... wrote:
> John:
>
> Why is it spam if someone on this list has job openings and needs help? Are
> you against LINUX people being gainfully employed?
>


=====
CXN, Inc. Contact: john@...
President, The Linux Society
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-society
linux society distro -> http://www.thinman.com/eLSD/readme
ThinMan is a registered trademark of CXN, Inc

__________________________________
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