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Vidyadhara Chariot   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #927 of 948 |
Re: Vidyadhara Chariot

Hi all,

I think that every reader of both English translations
will miss the two anchoring terms in the first two
lines: ye-shes and dbyings. Of course, there isn't
really any ultimate division between subject and
object, OK, if you are insisting, but wait a minute,
please, let's not jump way ahead of ourselves.
Assuming (as most of us must, except perhaps in rare
flashes of contemplative illumination) that this is
true, we still (perhaps must) go on talking using
subjectivizing and objectivizing terms, even with
regard to the ultimate non-dual Enlightenment
perspective. Even Buddhas are forced to communicate
to us in those dual-izing terms. Reluctantly.

So what I'm trying to say here is that ye-shes (for
which I'm preferring something like Full Knowledge
these days) and dbyings (which I, like most, always
translate Realm, even if it and Sanskrit dh‰tu both
have so many more rich and interesting meanings...)
Dbyings is the Domain of Full Knowledge.... (what Full
Knowledge sees 'out there' as if there were an 'in
there' or an 'out there').

The zung-'jug, which etymologically means 'entering
into a pair' (a Tibetan calque translation from
yuga-naddha, which could also be translated 'bound
together in the yoke'), but really means complete
unity, is specifically referring to the complete unity
of the just-mentioned two 'things' Ñ Full Knowledge
(viewed as something in the subject-side) and Realm
(viewed as being on the object-side).

But hey, I think both translations are excellent.
Like all translations, especially when, like this
verse, it's a matter of (if I may use the term, since
some will object to it) 'spiritual poetry', we
shouldn't/can't expect to capture every bit of meaning
in the target tongue. That's why we can't give up
learning languages, no matter how much we might
imagine it can all be 'preserved' for posterity in
global English! That's a delusion, I'd say. You can
never entirely trust a translator or a translation,
that's true. But what would you do without them?
Either pay them princely sums or sign up for language
classes, I say. Your call. Either way the people who
have learned languages will find employment.

Yours,
Dan



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Tue Feb 5, 2008 10:46 am

oaim50
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Message #927 of 948 |
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Hello everybody! I would like to ask people who know Tibetan to help me to understand the meaning of the first stanza of a well-known aspiration prayer ...
m.brudov
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Feb 2, 2008
11:53 pm

Dear m. brudov and all... The entire context (see below) reveals more completely what you may perhaps be looking for? (that's a question) At any rate, I'm...
Richard
copperclrd
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Feb 3, 2008
2:09 am

Good idea using dharmadictionary.net and find out the entries. I would recommend anyone who is not sure to use that resource and find out how close you get...
Kent Sandvik
kent_sandvik
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Feb 3, 2008
2:11 am

(This is alll just my opinion!) It's interesting that neither version translates "thig le" into english - one leaves it as "tigle" (does that rhyme with...
wrighrp
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Feb 3, 2008
8:53 pm

Well, hi to Roger and everyone. First of all...this is only as I've come to hear and understand, so please take it only on face value. But where your own...
Richard
copperclrd
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Feb 4, 2008
2:28 am

Hi all, I think that every reader of both English translations will miss the two anchoring terms in the first two lines: ye-shes and dbyings. Of course,...
Dan Martin
oaim50
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Feb 5, 2008
6:16 pm

Hello to Dan and all... I've come to believe, or feel anyway...that any reluctance which might have been experienced by buddhas prior to their enlightened...
Richard
copperclrd
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Feb 5, 2008
8:07 pm
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