Hi Mike,

good points. Your emphasis on the "closed" state is shared by others. While just
googling this work I found this by Kelsang Wangmo from a tibetan class:

As [Chandrakirti's] Seventy Verses on Going for Refuge says: "Being buddha
("opened") is being opened (vibuddha) like a lotus, because awareness opens to
what is to be known, destroying the ignorant state of being tightly squeezed
shut."

And,

"Those who cut the continuum of the sleep of ignorance, and emerge with perfect
knowledge have woken up and are buddha ("awakened"), just like persons who have
awakened from sleep."

Hence the word buddha refers both to awakening from sleep, and to a lotus's
opening. Therefore, as explained in the Treatise on the Formation of Words in
Two Volumes, based on the reason that the meaning of the word buddha can be
explained in both those ways earlier translators translated it with the compound
Tibetan word San-gye ('awakened-opened').


------

This explains how "sangs" and "rgyas" were chosen to render the idea contained
in the indian texts, rather than being a literal translation. And explains why
the wordplays works better in tibetan.

Best regards,

kim




----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Essex
To: Michael Essex
Cc: lotsawa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 2:31 AM
Subject: Re: [lotsawa] The Sangs & the Rgyas


ooh, ooh, I forgot the when (translating the na)

When understanding completely opens to the objects of knowledge
defeating delusion (which is like a) closed bud,
Enlightenment completely blossoms like a lotus.

better, I think, but still needs work

> some thoughts: I think we might want to look at the flower metaphor
> through the first 3 lines: rgyas is blossoming, and zum pa is closed
> (opposite of open blossom.
>
>
>
> > shes bya la ni blo rnam rgyas //
> >
> > rmongs pa'i zum pa bcom pas na //
> >
> > sangs rgyas pad ma ltar rnam rgyas //
>
>
> so we might have something like:
>
> understanding completely opening to the objects of knowledge
> defeats delusion which is (like a) closed bud
> Enlightenment completely blossoms like a lotus.
>
> I know this is not the most fluid translations, but it is too hot to
> concentrate.
>
> Mike
>
> > When the understanding (buddhi) has expanded to (everything)
> knowable
> >
> > (by) silencing and destroying delusions
> >
> > (Then) the buddha unfolds like a lotus
> >
> >
> >
> > [def. of "buddhi" is "the faculty which knows." Understanding has
> > expanded to include everything that should be known."zum pa" -
> > "shutting up" or "silencing"]
> >
>
>
>
>






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