I got off on the side track of the verb zum pa.
The tshig dzod chen mo gives
zum pa- kha rub pa, (right below) but also - mig zum pa, rma kha zum
pa, me tog zum pa/

kha rub pa/ mi gcig la mi mang pos kha rdung gtong ba/ (a bunch of
people verbally beating one person) going along with your suggestion of
silencing.

however Illuminator gives us that zum pa is the tha mi dad pa form of
'dzum pa which basically means to close up. (and also can be used for
smile, which is what we often see in sgrubs thabs)

Also in the tshig dzod we have in the definition of ku mud

mtsan mo zla ba shar tshe 'dab ma kha 'byed cing/ nyin mo nyi ma shar
tshe me tog ka zum pa zhig yin par drags.

going along with the flower metaphor I proposed.

Not that this has much to do with the original, much more profound
question.

Mike

--- Kim Poulsen <kimpoulsen@...> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> good points. Your emphasis on the "closed" state is shared by others.
> While just googling this work I found this by Kelsang Wangmo from a
> tibetan class:
>
> As [Chandrakirti's] Seventy Verses on Going for Refuge says: "Being
> buddha ("opened") is being opened (vibuddha) like a lotus, because
> awareness opens to what is to be known, destroying the ignorant state
> of being tightly squeezed shut."
>
> And,
>
> "Those who cut the continuum of the sleep of ignorance, and emerge
> with perfect knowledge have woken up and are buddha ("awakened"),
> just like persons who have awakened from sleep."
>
> Hence the word buddha refers both to awakening from sleep, and to a
> lotus's opening. Therefore, as explained in the Treatise on the
> Formation of Words in Two Volumes, based on the reason that the
> meaning of the word buddha can be explained in both those ways
> earlier translators translated it with the compound Tibetan word
> San-gye ('awakened-opened').
>
>
> ------
>
> This explains how "sangs" and "rgyas" were chosen to render the idea
> contained in the indian texts, rather than being a literal
> translation. And explains why the wordplays works better in tibetan.
>
> Best regards,
>
> kim
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Essex
> To: Michael Essex
> Cc: lotsawa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 2:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [lotsawa] The Sangs & the Rgyas
>
>
> ooh, ooh, I forgot the when (translating the na)
>
> When understanding completely opens to the objects of knowledge
> defeating delusion (which is like a) closed bud,
> Enlightenment completely blossoms like a lotus.
>
> better, I think, but still needs work
>
> > some thoughts: I think we might want to look at the flower
> metaphor
> > through the first 3 lines: rgyas is blossoming, and zum pa is
> closed
> > (opposite of open blossom.
> >
> >
> >
> > > shes bya la ni blo rnam rgyas //
> > >
> > > rmongs pa'i zum pa bcom pas na //
> > >
> > > sangs rgyas pad ma ltar rnam rgyas //
> >
> >
> > so we might have something like:
> >
> > understanding completely opening to the objects of knowledge
> > defeats delusion which is (like a) closed bud
> > Enlightenment completely blossoms like a lotus.
> >
> > I know this is not the most fluid translations, but it is too hot
> to
> > concentrate.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > > When the understanding (buddhi) has expanded to (everything)
> > knowable
> > >
> > > (by) silencing and destroying delusions
> > >
> > > (Then) the buddha unfolds like a lotus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [def. of "buddhi" is "the faculty which knows." Understanding
> has
> > > expanded to include everything that should be known."zum pa" -
> > > "shutting up" or "silencing"]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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