FREE e-mail groups at http://www.eGroups.com

K Granados wrote:
>
> Please also send me the information regarding Kava and lucid dreaming.
> Thanks!
>
Me too, thanks. I have Kava in spray form but it hasn't helped me at
all. I think it is because I don't know how to use it at the right time
and how much to optimize for help in dream recall and even lucid
dreaming.


Hay Kim, you joined too!

Joseph

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Please also send me the information regarding Kava and lucid dreaming.
Thanks!

KG

> Hi guys!
>
> I'm both new to this group and new to LDing.
> Could someone tell me everything about this Kava you're talking about. What is
it, how much, why etc.
> And once again the link between Kava and LDing...
>
> thanks,
>
> Antony

Since I've already relayed much of this info to the group, I've
written a summary and e-mailed to Antony.

If anyone else would like to read it and/or help me edit it I would
be glad to mail on individual requests.  Please reply to me
personally (not to the group) to avoid sending requests to everyone.
If I get enough requests & after I get some feedback, I'll be
sure to send the info to the group as a FAQ and also post it to
alt.dreams.lucid.

Thanks for your interest,

-Bryce

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:02:59 EDT, Vandekeere@... wrote:

>Hey Clint,
> Kinda off topic but do you get any good results from your light/sound
>machine?  I've always been curious about them but have never spoken to anyone
>with them.  Would you recommend getting one to someone?  I have just never
>wanted to kick out that much money for something without hearing any unbiased
>testimonials.  Any info would be great.
> I also use the "flying" check to see if I'm dreaming in almost all my LDs.
>It usually works great, but I too have lots of flying dreams and love
>flyaround in my LDs so I could be biased too.

Hi Bird,

I find that the L/S machines work well for me in several regards. I can enter a
deep
relaxed state much more easily and quickly and it also enhances my meditation. I
think
that it has also been useful for helping me to lucid dream. I find that many
times I will
experience intense and very vivid hypnogogic imagery during and L/S session. For
most people it takes using it over a period of time before benefits can be
noticed. I own
two: an Xcelr8r (by Mindgear) and a cheaper Orion. I generally use the Xcelr8r
because
it is easily programmable and more powerful (but cost more than 3x the price of
the
Orion). There are several websites that give descriptions of L/S products and
use of L/S
in general. Here are a few you might want to check out:

http://www.cerebrex.com/
http://www.mind-gear.com/index.html
http://www.photosonix.com/PhotosonixSite/PhotosonixHomePg.html
http://www.dynamind.com/
http://www.tools4explore.com/default.htm

----------
Clint
clint@...



______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

> Hi guys!
>
> I'm both new to this group and new to LDing.
> Could someone tell me everything about this Kava you're talking about. What is
it, how much, why etc.
> And once again the link between Kava and LDing...
>
> thanks,
>
> Antony

Since I've already relayed much of this info to the group, I've
written a summary and e-mailed to Antony.

If anyone else would like to read it and/or help me edit it I would
be glad to mail on individual requests.  Please reply to me
personally (not to the group) to avoid sending requests to everyone.
If I get enough requests & after I get some feedback, I'll be
sure to send the info to the group as a FAQ and also post it to
alt.dreams.lucid.

Thanks for your interest,

-Bryce

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

FREE e-mail groups at http://www.eGroups.com

> Since we're on the topic of Kava, just out of curiousity what type of
> places sell that sort of thing?  Would it be drug stores or those
> naturalist type stores that sell every form of vitamin known to man?
> --
> Cheers!

Drug stores usually carry it, and I think most heatlh food stores.
Grocery stores even have it sometimes but I don't recommend buying it
there because it seems to be overpriced and less selection.

-BeC

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Since we're on the topic of Kava, just out of curiousity what type of
places sell that sort of thing?  Would it be drug stores or those
naturalist type stores that sell every form of vitamin known to man?
--
Cheers!

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hey Clint,
	 Kinda off topic but do you get any good results from your light/sound
machine?  I've always been curious about them but have never spoken to anyone
with them.  Would you recommend getting one to someone?  I have just never
wanted to kick out that much money for something without hearing any unbiased
testimonials.  Any info would be great.
	 I also use the "flying" check to see if I'm dreaming in almost all my LDs.
It usually works great, but I too have lots of flying dreams and love
flyaround in my LDs so I could be biased too.
	 Take Dare,
		 Bird

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hey Adam,
	 The NovaDreamer is a sleep mask you wear to bed.  It has detectors which can
tell when you are in REM and then it flashes lights into your eyes.  Hopefully
you can become aware of these flashers as dream cues to indicate that you're
dreaming.  I believe they cost around $200 (that's what I paid about a year
ago).  They are sold by The Lucidity Institute.  Check out their web-site,
they should have info and more current price.
	 I found it helped me learn the ropes enough until I didn't need to use it as
often.  I didn't want to become dependent on it, but it is definitely a good
tool. They have a Lucid Dream Induction audiocassette which I found helped me
too, but I'm sure lots of what works depends on the individual.
	 Good Luck,
		 Bird


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:20:37 +0000, Bryce Conner wrote:

>Sound technique (MILD), is more important than what you ingest, IMHO.
> I'm trying to project the letter 'Z' onto my palm  (suggestion of
>"Adam Ohev-Ami" <cool1@...>).  This seems like another
>type of MILD.  If I do that as often as I play chess, it is sure to
>find its way into a dream soon.  My chess often leaks into my dreams
>after playing  about 10 games.

I wholeheartedly agree. I want to know that I can do it on my own at will rather
than
relying on drugs. Besides, I don't like the feeling of not being in "control"
that comes with
taking drugs, at least for me. I know that various drugs have been used for
millenia (and
still are) to induce various dream states, but I prefer the do-it-yourself
method. I had a
bad LSD trip in the late 60's and I have no desire to repeat that kind of
experience.

The writing on the hand seems very similar to LaBerge's advice to look at your
watch
several times a day to see if you are dreaming (if the numbers are strange or
mutate you
know you are dreaming). I think different people respond to different techniques
and one
has to try several to see what works. I know that although I look at my watch
during a
reality check several times a day it has NEVER found its way into my dreams.
Some find
it works very well and they start seeing their watch in their dreams right away.
My cue
seems to be trying to fly - every LD I have had has been initiated by the
reality check of
trying to fly. I have always had lots of flying dreams so that may be why it
works for me. I
guess everyone has to find his/her personal cue. It is probably a good idea to
try some
other cue during your reality checks if the one you are using doesn't show up in
a dream
within a reasonable amount of time.


----------
Clint
clint@...



______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:43:48 EDT, Vandekeere@... wrote:

Hi Marc,

>That's strange you haven't had any success with the NovaDreamer.   I'm assuming
>you've toyed
>around with all the settings to try and find which one works for you.  I'd
>suggest turning it up so high (bright flashes with sound) until it blasts you
>right out of your dream.  Then you know it's too strong.  :)

I'm not sure whether you are referring to my "failure" or Lars', but I will
reply. I have
indeed tried just about every setting (I have the SuperNova interface so it is
very simple
to experiment). As a matter of fact, I find that I have to change the settings
quite
frequently, otherwise I seem to become habituated and don't get any cues in my
dreams. I think the failure is more mine than that of the NovaDreamer. The light
cues
occasionally show up in my dreams but I simply fail to recognized them. The cues
have
shown up in many amusing ways. I have become lucid once or twice (out of 24
lucid
dreams) due to recognizing the light cue. Nonetheless, I think the ND has been
very
valuable and I haven't given up on using it.

>Slowly adjust the settings lighter each night it should either blast you out
>of your dream which means it's still too high or it should prompt lucidity.
>It just shouldn't be set so low that it's unnoticeable.  But who knows maybe
>you're immune to it,  I had great results with it and still do when I use it.

Good advice! Unfortunately, I can't use a loud sound function as it tends to
wake up my
wife. I once used the sound (when my wife was away) and it was incorporated into
my
dream as a loudly ticking watch. Every single lucid dream I have had has
occurred due
to a reality test (checking to see if I can fly) in the dream. When I do my
reality checks I
usually do three things: try to read text twice, look at my digital watch and
see if the
numbers are strange or mutate, and will myself to fly. After 7 months of this I
have never
once done a reality check in a dream by reading text or looking at my watch. On
the
other hand, every single lucid dream I have had has been initiated by
discovering I can
fly. However, once after I had already become lucid (by flying) I remembered the
watch
and text checks and tried them out. I looked at my watch and there were 5 places
(instead of two) for the seconds and the numbers were turning very fast and
looked like
the numbers on an odometer. In the lucid dream I thought that was hilarious and
started
laughing and I was very pleased that it confirmed I was dreaming. In the same
dream I
tried reading labels in a market and found that "Bread" became "Br ad" or the
letters
turned upside down when I tried to read it repeatedly. That also tickled my
funny bone.

Back to the Novadreamer.... I think that part of the reason it doesn't work as
well for me
as it should is that I also have a light and sound machine (are you familiar
with those?)
which I had used regularly (and still do) for a year prior to using the
NovaDreamer. I think
I must have become habituated to the flashing lights. For those unfamiliar with
light and
sound machines, they are used to entrain brainwaves to the frequency of the
flashing
lights and pulsing sounds. I once used the sound function only to induce a very
long
incredible WILD, which I have not been able to reproduce unfortunately.


----------
Clint
clint@...



______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hello friends,

______________________
IcQ: 11714142

-----Original Message-----
From: Vandekeere@... <Vandekeere@...>
To: lucid-dreaming@egroups.com <lucid-dreaming@egroups.com>
Date: יום שישי 04 ספטמבר 1998 16:44
Subject: Re: [lucid-dreaming] nova-dreamer


>That's strange you haven't had any success with the NovaDreamer.  I own one


Hello  Vandekeere,  Can you tell me what is NovaDreamer, how much it costs
and where can i get one??
thank you, Adam..


>at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.
>


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

That's strange you haven't had any success with the NovaDreamer.  I own one
and don't use it so much anymore because it is not necessary, but in the
beginning when I had less ability to induce and sustain LDs I found it very
useful and helping me become familiar with the realm.  I abandoned it as soon
as I could for fear of becoming dependent on it, but in periods of dry spells
I will don it once more and within a week it most usually will produce an LD
usually in the morning following a MILD induction.  I'm assuming you've toyed
around with all the settings to try and find which one works for you.  I'd
suggest turning it up so high (bright flashes with sound) until it blasts you
right out of your dream.  Then you know it's too strong.  :)
Slowly adjust the settings lighter each night it should either blast you out
of your dream which means it's still too high or it should prompt lucidity.
It just shouldn't be set so low that it's unnoticeable.  But who knows maybe
you're immune to it,  I had great results with it and still do when I use it.
	  Well, Good Luck in any Event!!
		 Bird



______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Wow, a flood of messages yesterday...  here's my reply to one...

> >If you take Kava and it causes you to lose sleep in the evening, you
> >are taking too much.  Kava might also cause you to want to sleep
> >more in the morning.  There aren't any other side effects, even at
> >600-800mg.
>
> The problem with Kava dosages is that it comes in so many formulations that it
is difficult
> to tell what the "mg" refers too. There are Kava capsules that contain
kavalactones (the
> active ingredient) standardized to 75 mg whereas the total Kava Kava root
extract may
> be listed as 250 mg. Such a formula may say that it is standardized to contain
30%
> kavalactones. You can find other formulas standardized to 50% kavalactones
with (total
> Kava Kava at 150 mg). Other formulas are not standardized at all and may only
list the
> total Kava Kava root extract (I had one that had 450 mg) so you have no idea
how much
> kavalactone you are getting. So, 600-800 mg of Kava Kava root may not be a lot
but is a
> huge amount of Kavalactones.

True, 300mg of 30% is not the same as 300mg of 50%.  I am talking
about 600mg of 30% Kavalactones, which is not a huge amount.  (Not to
take the equivalent of 600mg Kavalactones, which would be a huge
amount).  If you have 50% then just take less.  I think it depends on
body weight/%fat and metabolism too.

> >If I have a 3rd quality lucid dream within the next few weeks I'll
> >keep you updated.
>
> Yes, please do - I would be very interested. As I said in a previous post, I
had mixed
> results with Kava Kava. Also, after taking it for a couple of days I started
to feel VERY
> depressed. I stopped and the depression went away. Tried the Kava again and
the
> depression returned. My wife had a similar reaction. I would like to know if
you or others
> have experienced depression as an unpleasant side effect.

I'll keep my eye out for depression, thanks for mentioning it.  The
only thing I've noticed so far is dry mouth and eyes, and sometimes
irritability, but that was due to lack of sleep.

> I know that is sound advice for most people and is common wisdom, but I have
found
> the opposite to be true for me several times. After having gone without any
lucid dreams
> for a week or two I sometimes felt very frustrated and almost desperate and
really
> pushed myself to have a lucid dream and Whamo, I would have a lucid dream two
> nights in a row. It seems that there are no set rules in this world of lucid
dreaming :-).

Yes it seems that LDs are so much different for everyone its hard to
recommend one thing that works well for most people.  Personally,
when I try to hard, I get insomnia, which is self-defeating.

I have to wait another week before trying Kava again because I took
it 3 nights in a row and no results.  I should have gotten lucid when
the magazine I was reading had a picture of the mountains with a
clear plastic overlay on top which had an outline of the mountains
and descriptions (names, facts, etc.).  The overlay didn't match the
picture very well and then it changed subtly (for the worse) when I
tried to make it match.  I think I woke up but I can't remember
exactly.

As to other substances, most of us don't have access to prescription
medications or even friends who use them.  I like to limit myself to
things such as dietary supplements (herbs, vitimins, etc.), foods and
drinks.  That is my personal choice.  I definitly wouldn't try DXM
(found in cough syrup).

Sound technique (MILD), is more important than what you ingest, IMHO.
  I'm trying to project the letter 'Z' onto my palm  (suggestion of
"Adam Ohev-Ami" <cool1@...>).  This seems like another
type of MILD.  If I do that as often as I play chess, it is sure to
find its way into a dream soon.  My chess often leaks into my dreams
after playing  about 10 games.

-Bryce

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hi, all.

Interesting about Troy. Moss writes in "Dreamgates" that he was led to the town
where he currently lives by dreams.

Casey

----------
From:  Clint[SMTP:clint@...]
Sent:  Thursday, September 03, 1998 8:21 PM
To:  lucid-dreaming@egroups.com
Subject:  Re: [lucid-dreaming]  Re:good books on LDs and OBEs

Hi Bird,

I agree that Robert Moss's books are excellent. I am just finishing up
"Conscious
Dreaming" and have "Dreamgates" but haven't read it yet. As it turns out, Robert
Moss is
a "neighbor" of mine - we live in the same small upstate New York town (Troy). I
haven't
had to opportunity to meet him yet, but I am hoping to when he gives a talk or
seminar
locally.

A couple of other books that I have found useful are "Dream Yoga and the
Practice of
Natural Light" by Namkhai Norbu. I have been able to induce a few lucid dream by
using
the visualization techniques in the book.

Also, the classic "Creative Dreaming" by Patricia Garfield. Wonder of wonders,
Robert
Moss says (in Conscious Dreaming) that Ms. Garfield also lives here in Troy!
This seems
to be the Mecca of dreamers :-).


----------
Clint
clint@...



______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

-----Original Message-----
From: Clint <clint@...>
>
>I have had several dreams where it the light cues from the NovaDreamer were
>"obvious" but I inevitably didn't recognize them and didn't go lucid. Even
though I haven't
>directly induced a lucid dream with the ND I think that it has helped me
considerably if as
>nothing more than being a subconscious reminder while I sleep/dream.
>

That is why I find verbal cues more reliable...
They are harder to NOT recognize...

>
>Will this be DreamSpeaker offered by the Lucidity Institute (the little
digital tape recorder
>that interfaces with the NovaDreamer)?
>


No. A homemade system...
I sleep with the NovaDreamer that is connected to a jackplug.
The wire from the novadreamer is connected to a gizmo that
make the signal that is sent when eye-movement is registered
a little longer. About a second. The signal is connected to a mouse
that makes the mouse click and the mouse is place of a "play" button
that makes the computer play verbal cues.
I may use speakers or head-phones. Think I will sleep with headphones
too....

If I works good will I maybe make a more fancy system...
Like the one called LISA. Will maybe soon be published by
the lucidity institute...
I will certainly buy the LISA system when/if it comes out...


Regards,
Lars


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:30:49 +0000, Bryce Conner wrote:

>A few days later another thread appeared where someone had taken
>Kava and gotten Lucid ("Took Kava, got lucid").  This person
>explained how he had taken it 5 hours before bed instead of right at
>bedtime.  I mailed him to get the dosage he used and it was 600mg.
>
>I tried this method and have had great success with it.  2 lucid
>dreams in a 2 week period.  Before I was lucky to have one per year.
>I use Kava in tandem with MILD.  When I have had success it is when
>I've taken Kava 2-3 nights in a row, 5 hours before bed, 600-800mg
>worth.
>
>If you take Kava and it causes you to lose sleep in the evening, you
>are taking too much.  Kava might also cause you to want to sleep
>more in the morning.  There aren't any other side effects, even at
>600-800mg.

The problem with Kava dosages is that it comes in so many formulations that it
is difficult
to tell what the "mg" refers too. There are Kava capsules that contain
kavalactones (the
active ingredient) standardized to 75 mg whereas the total Kava Kava root
extract may
be listed as 250 mg. Such a formula may say that it is standardized to contain
30%
kavalactones. You can find other formulas standardized to 50% kavalactones with
(total
Kava Kava at 150 mg). Other formulas are not standardized at all and may only
list the
total Kava Kava root extract (I had one that had 450 mg) so you have no idea how
much
kavalactone you are getting. So, 600-800 mg of Kava Kava root may not be a lot
but is a
huge amount of Kavalactones.


>If I have a 3rd quality lucid dream within the next few weeks I'll
>keep you updated.

Yes, please do - I would be very interested. As I said in a previous post, I had
mixed
results with Kava Kava. Also, after taking it for a couple of days I started to
feel VERY
depressed. I stopped and the depression went away. Tried the Kava again and the
depression returned. My wife had a similar reaction. I would like to know if you
or others
have experienced depression as an unpleasant side effect.

>
>Don't try too hard, that always interferes.

I know that is sound advice for most people and is common wisdom, but I have
found
the opposite to be true for me several times. After having gone without any
lucid dreams
for a week or two I sometimes felt very frustrated and almost desperate and
really
pushed myself to have a lucid dream and Whamo, I would have a lucid dream two
nights in a row. It seems that there are no set rules in this world of lucid
dreaming :-).


----------
Clint
clint@...



______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:15:34 +0200, Lars Rune Foleide wrote:

>>Although I have used the NovaDreamer just about every night
>>for the last 7 months I can trace only one or two of my LD's to having
>>been triggered by it.
>
>7 Months??
>Boy! This device certainly don't do it for some people....

I have had several dreams where it the light cues from the NovaDreamer were
"obvious" but I inevitably didn't recognize them and didn't go lucid. Even
though I haven't
directly induced a lucid dream with the ND I think that it has helped me
considerably if as
nothing more than being a subconscious reminder while I sleep/dream.

>
>I have now totally stopped using it and are mostly experimenting with
>caffeine and vitamins....

I have tried some of the herbal and vitamin suggestions with mixed results. I
have used
Kava Kava and Mugwort and have had a lucid dream or two afterwards, but other
times
nothing. So, I can't say for sure whether the herbs helped or not. Sometimes I
think it is
the EXPECTATION that a lucid dream will happen associated with a particular
technique that plays the largest role. I have often found that when I try a new
method I
will be excited the first night or two and will usually have a lucid dream. But
later that
same technique may not work as readily. I think for me it is sometimes the
energy of
excitement and expectation that I will have a lucid dream that causes it to
happen.

>
>But I will soon create a system that will make it play sounds.
>Make it play verbal cues. Interesting to see how that will work out....

Will this be DreamSpeaker offered by the Lucidity Institute (the little digital
tape recorder
that interfaces with the NovaDreamer)?


----------
Clint
clint@...



______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hi Bird,

I agree that Robert Moss's books are excellent. I am just finishing up
"Conscious
Dreaming" and have "Dreamgates" but haven't read it yet. As it turns out, Robert
Moss is
a "neighbor" of mine - we live in the same small upstate New York town (Troy). I
haven't
had to opportunity to meet him yet, but I am hoping to when he gives a talk or
seminar
locally.

A couple of other books that I have found useful are "Dream Yoga and the
Practice of
Natural Light" by Namkhai Norbu. I have been able to induce a few lucid dream by
using
the visualization techniques in the book.

Also, the classic "Creative Dreaming" by Patricia Garfield. Wonder of wonders,
Robert
Moss says (in Conscious Dreaming) that Ms. Garfield also lives here in Troy!
This seems
to be the Mecca of dreamers :-).


----------
Clint
clint@...



______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hello everyone,
 	 My name is Marc and I'm new to the list.  I am looking forward to getting
  to know everyone.
 	 Anyone have any experience with inducing OBEs from a lucid dream?  I've been
  toying around with it lately, and have had some success but it just seems
hard
  to maintain the OBE without slipping back into a lucid dream.  Any
  suggestions?
 	 The method I use to induce them goes as follows:
 		 While in a dream I will become lucid and examine my dreamscape to stabilize
  within it. I read somewhere that if you're lucid dreaming and your vision
  isn't too clear or if your dreamscapes aren't stable you can simply will it
or
  intend it to become more clear and stable by saying forcefully, "INCREASE
  CLARITY NOW!", so I will do that while a lucid state and this usually brings
  about crisp reolution and increased awareness and focus.  After I stabilize
  again and become comfortable I will then intend verbally, "INCREASE LEVELS OF
  LUCIDITY NOW!".  This brings even more intensity to the point that I' can
just
  state or think "Find my physical body but don't get trapped into it. Prepare
  to have an OBE."  If successful at this point, I'll be more conscious of my
  actual body which before hand I'm not at all.  Before I'm more in tune with
my
  dreambody if any body at all, whereas now I'm conscious of my physical yet
  still in a dream state of mind.  It's like the interim phase between a series
  of lucid dreams where there are no visuals, you're conscious you're dreaming
  and of your body lying in bed but you just wait it out in the black void
until
  some visuals start to form into a new dreamscape which you enter into the
next
  lucid dream cycle.  Well I'm digressing, it seems almost like a slight
  bilocation of awareness, being aware you're observing this from
  somewhere/place beyond ties of the body and yet you're also feeling your body
  but in a strange loose way.  So if I can get to this point, the flowing mild
  current ripples through my body.  It doesn't hurt but sometimes seems "hard
to
  take" even sppoky or scary at first. But If I can just resist the urge to
  fight the vibes or analyze them, they'll increase until eventually I'll just
  be catapulted somehow from the body.  Definitely OBE not a lucid dream, I'll
  hover for awhile then go to explore my apartment, yet within minutes I will
  see things I know couldn't be happening: people I don't know in my living
  room, being able to move things, etc.... When this happens I usually wind up
  just "running with " the lucid dream and seeing where it takes me, but I
would
  love to be able to prolong the OBE awareness.
   		 Anyway, I hope this technique can be used by any of you out there, and
  improved on or modified to fit your needs. Keep in touch with results or
  additions.  And if anyone has advice on how to prolong the OBE wiyhout
  slipping into a lucid dream please share anything that you think might help.
  Or any other successful methods which may seem related.  I believe if you
find
  a method which works well for you then you should stick with it.  I'll try
new
  methods but usually have more success with techniques that have worked in the
  past.  Maybe it's the subconscious responding and becoming used to certain
  techniques?
 	 Sorry for the length of the message, I hope I didn't talk your ears off, but
  I also hope I could help "out" anyone.  Please get back to me.

 	 Happy Trails, Everyone!!!
 		 Marc  aka  Bird   :)




______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Anyone have any good books they've read on the subjects of lucid dreams or
  OBEs??  Here's a list of some of my favorites.  Hope you enjoy.   :)   Bird


 	 Robert Moss' CONSCIOUS DREAMING is a great book for both beginner and
  advanced.  Incredible stuff on returning to dreamscapes, re-dreaming the
  "dream", dream radar, and a bunch of other interesting things.  Definitely
not
  a boring nor shallow book.  It has some well thought out, researched, and
  above all experienced concepts.  LaBerge's books are alittle flat in terms of
  their overall philosophy but they nonetheless do contain bits of insight on
  methods and techniques.  The application becomes your own once you learn the
  techniques. His MILD technique works very well for me at least.
 	 I also have heard that Robert Moss has a new book out which is a great read.
  It's called DREAMGATES, I think.  I found it at my local Barnes and Noble's
  Bookstore but have yet to consume it.  :)   I'll drop a post once I've gnawed
  through it.  If anyone else has any dreaming books which they have found
  particularly helpful or insightful, I'd appreciate some suggestions.  While
  I'm here I'll list a few of my favorites:
		 The Art of Dreaming  by Carlos Castaneda (all of his books are good)
 		 Surfers of the Zuvuya   by Jose Arguelles
 		 The Sun and the Shadow by Kenneth Kelzer
 		 Tracking Freedom   the latest from Ken Eagle Feather
 		 The Dreaming Universe by Fred Alan Wolfe =these
 								 are good for those who actually like science  :)
 		 all Robert Monroe books  (Journeys b b, Far Journey, Ultimate Journey)
 		 Out of Body Experiences  petersen (think this one can be read free online)

 	 these next ones are stories but very related to our interests:
 	       *Spiritwalker  by Hank Wesselman(he's also got a new one but it's $20
 										     since it's still in hardcover only)
 		 The Way of the Peaceful Warrior by Dan Milman
 		  The Alchemist by Paolo Coehlo
 		 Celestine Prophecy by Michael Redfield?

  They're all good reads; hope you get the time to enjoy them.  If anyone wants
  a list of more, let me know.  Just didn't feel like typing them all up now.
	 And if anyone knows of any others, please post them.  It helps to have
suggestions of good books I think because it saves time reading uninsightful
ones.  Plus as an added bonus whenever I read about LDs or OBEs I find it
filters into my dream-life and yields LDs or OBEs.  Thanx in advance for your
suggestions,
		 Bird




______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

I agree some can read in dreams but they are a limited few.  I have on
occassion read successfully too, but the overall odds are highly stacked in
favor of not being able to read text.  When I say read I mean, reading
something, looking away then looking back and rereading it again, try this a
few times and see if the text stays the same.  Odds are that it won't, in some
rare, rare cases it will, but those are, I believe, the exceptions to the
rule.
	 Sweet Dreams All,
		 Bird

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Ohev-Ami <cool1@...>
>
>dude, if u want a lucid dream almost every night, you simply write a word
on
>your hend, and look at it every 10-15 min. or when you think of it, the
more
>the better. and after a day or 2, u'll automatically do it also in  your
dream
>and we all know that we can't read in a dream ( the letters mix ) and you
>won't be able to read and coz' of it, you'll know that your dreaming.
>


I have to disagree with that....
I have been successfully reading in my dreams several times....


But thanks for the tips,
Lars


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

.
>
> If you take Kava and it causes you to lose sleep in the evening, you
> are taking too much.  Kava might also cause you to want to sleep
> more in the morning.  There aren't any other side effects, even at
> 600-800mg.
>

  Since we're on the topic of Dream enhancing substances, I'll take this
oportunity to share the name of a drug that gave me incredibly realistic
and vivid dreams, as well as increasing the number of dreams I had per
night as well as the recall.
   I was given this drug as a pain reliever after having 4 wisdom teeth
removed. Its called OXYCODONE/ACETAM, and I believe they're made by
precept.  I looked this up on the net and found that it is from the
opiate family.  Anyhow, the only problem with taking these is that is
screws with your senses while you are awake, almost like a drunken
feeling.  I was unable to comprehend the plot of any of the movies I had
rented.   If anyone knows anyone who has recently had  teeth extracted
ask if they have any of thier pain relievers left (the doctors always
prescribe way too many) and try one or two about 2 hours before going to
sleep.

--
Cheers!

Dave

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

bryce,
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryce Conner <bcbard@...>
To: lucid-dreaming@egroups.com <lucid-dreaming@egroups.com>
Date: יום חמישי 03 ספטמבר 1998 06:34
Subject: Re: [lucid-dreaming] Introduction


Hello,

I am 26, and have been interested in LDs (Lucid Dreams) for quite
some time ............

dude, if u want a lucid dream almost every night, you simply write a word on
your hend, and look at it every 10-15 min. or when you think of it, the more
the better. and after a day or 2, u'll automaticly do it also in  your dream
and we all know that we can't read in a dream ( the letters mix ) and you
won't be able to read and coz' of it, you'll know that your dreaming.

I tried this system twice and it worked for me this both times but already
in the first night  had a scary dream and i was aware to the fact that i am
dreaming but i could not control the dream, i belive that if i whould go on
with my hand for 1 /2 more days, i would succed, right now i'm trying
again.... and ... i'll tell you what's up....

Adam..


______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

Hello,

I am 26, and have been interested in LDs (Lucid Dreams) for quite
some time.  I can't remember how long exactly, but off and on for
over 5 years.  I started by reading a few books on the topic of
dreaming, which included info on lucid dreaming.  It's noteworthy
that all of the info in those books is now widely available on the
net.  After reading the book and trying for several months I was able
to have a lucid dream flying around, but it wasn't very clear and
didn't last very long.

My attempts since that time have varied.  Usually I'll get bored
after a month of trying to remind myself before bed that "I will
recognize my next dream" (the MILD method - Mneumonic Induction of
Lucid Dreams).  Yet my dream recall has always been very good (2-3
dreams per night) and that has kept me paying attention to my dreams.

About a month ago, while trying to get information on Kava Root
(Kava Kava, a natural herbal relaxant), I found an article which
mentioned that Kava could help stimulate LDs.  I asked in the
newsgroup for more information.  (The problem with most Kava
information is that it's given by people trying to sell Kava)  One
person replied, verifying that it was possible.  However, he
mentioned that he kept trying it and it didn't work as well as when
he first used it.

I tried taking Kava in increasing doses before bed for a week.
It didn't seem to work, however it did seem to make longer more
vivid dreams.  I also tried taking Kava in the early morning but
that morning I had fewer and less clear dreams.  I posted these
preliminary results.

A few days later another thread appeared where someone had taken
Kava and gotten Lucid ("Took Kava, got lucid").  This person
explained how he had taken it 5 hours before bed instead of right at
bedtime.  I mailed him to get the dosage he used and it was 600mg.

I tried this method and have had great success with it.  2 lucid
dreams in a 2 week period.  Before I was lucky to have one per year.
I use Kava in tandem with MILD.  When I have had success it is when
I've taken Kava 2-3 nights in a row, 5 hours before bed, 600-800mg
worth.

If you take Kava and it causes you to lose sleep in the evening, you
are taking too much.  Kava might also cause you to want to sleep
more in the morning.  There aren't any other side effects, even at
600-800mg.

The only reason I haven't tried caffeine, which L.R.F. has used with
success is that I'm trying Kava.  To me Kava seems to have
stimulating and calming effects while caffeine makes me nervous.
It's my own personal preference.  I will probably try Caffeine down
the road, especially if my schedule gets busier.  Kava seems to take
more time than Caffeine.

If I have a 3rd quality lucid dream within the next few weeks I'll
keep you updated.

Don't try too hard, that always interferes.

-Bryce Conner

______________________________________________________________________

Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

-----Original Message-----
From: Clint - <clint751@...>
>
>Most of my LD's have been very intense and vivid and super 3
>dimensional.

Mine too.... :)

>Although I have used the NovaDreamer just about every night
>for the last 7 months I can trace only one or two of my LD's to having
>been triggered by it.

7 Months??
Boy! This device certainly don't do it for some people....

I can't remember one single Lucid Dream after using the SuperNovaDreamer.
I used it for almost two months. And I had a few Lucid Dreams after
I had used it.
(Using it for 6 hours, then take it of and continue sleeping..)

I have now totally stopped using it and are mostly experimenting with
caffeine and vitamins....

But I will soon create a system that will make it play sounds.
Make it play verbal cues. Interesting to see how that will work out....


Take care,
Lars


____________________________________________________________________

Read or subscribe to this group at http://www.eGroups.com/list/lucid-dreaming/
To unsubscribe by e-mail, send to lucid-dreaming-unsubscribe@egroups.com

FREE Web-based e-mail groups at http://www.eGroups.com !

Hi and welcome to the Lucid Dreaming e-mail discussion group,

I see that we already have several subscibers to the group. I thought I
would start things off by introducing myself.

I am currently 47 years old and have had an deep interest in mental and
spiritual disciplines since I was about 12 years old. I have studied and
practiced Zen and Tibetan Buddhism with several teachers over the years.
I believe my meditation practice has been of great benefit to me in the
process of learning to lucid dream.

I first started trying to lucid dream 7 months ago (Feb. '98). I
purchased a Novadreamer and followed the course that came with it
religiously as well as reading all the books I could lay my hands on and
keeping a dream journal. I had my first lucid dream after about 2 weeks.
For the first 4 1/2 months I averaged about 2 lucid dreams per month.
For the last 2 1/2 months the frequency has been steadily increasing and
for the past 6 weeks I have had an average of 2 lucid dreams per week. I
am very pleased to discover that persistence and dedication is paying
off. I still cannot induce a lucid dream at will, but I look forward to
the day I will achieve that goal.

Most of my LD's have been very intense and vivid and super 3
dimensional. Although I have used the Novadreamer just about every night
for the last 7 months I can trace only one or two of my LD's to having
been triggered by it. I think following the course, reading books about
lucid dreaming, and doing reality checks several times everyday have
been what has been of the most benefit. It seems that thinking about
lucid dreaming in one way or another several times during the day helps
a lot. I went through a period about a month ago when sustaining a lucid
dream for more than a minute or two became very difficult. I would
awaken almost immediately after becoming lucid; but fortunately that
seems to have passed and I seem to be able to remain in the dream for
much longer.

I hope to hear about other peoples tips, techniques, lucid dream
descriptions, advice, for what purposes others "use" lucid dreaming,
etc.

____________________________________________________________________

Read or subscribe to this group at http://www.eGroups.com/list/lucid-dreaming/
To unsubscribe by e-mail, send to lucid-dreaming-unsubscribe@egroups.com

FREE Web-based e-mail groups at http://www.eGroups.com !

This is a test message to ensure that the group is operating correctly.


----------
Clint
clint@...



____________________________________________________________________

Read or subscribe to this group at http://www.eGroups.com/list/lucid-dreaming/
To unsubscribe by e-mail, send to lucid-dreaming-unsubscribe@egroups.com

FREE Web-based e-mail groups at http://www.eGroups.com !