On Nov 22, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Jeric_Synergy wrote:

> TMK



So... which definition of TMK do you mean?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tmk

(I'm half serious... I had no idea of what you meant).

By the way... you are absolutely right about distant lights.
———————
James Burns
http://jamesburnsdesign.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TMK, all this POSITIONING of Distant lights is immaterial: the only thing that
matters is their rotation.  Sometimes I've seen raytracing shadows that
contradict this, but I'd have to double check.

As to the similarity of lights:  10 meters is 30 feet (obviously) and in my RW
work that's a long way for a spotlight.  The working surface of a video light,
like an ARRI, is between 5 and 8 inches: imagine how small an angle that
subtends at 30 ft and you can see why the look is basically the same as a
distant light.  (LW's spots are actually points, not 5" across, so it's even
worse.)  You probably wouldn't see much difference until the light is with ~12
feet of the subject.

For any kind of realism, always include some falloff in your lights.

--- In lw3d@yahoogroups.com, Greg Reyna <greyna@...> wrote:
>
> and pointing straight down toward the 1.5 meter-tall character, who
> is running from +Z toward -Z.  I changed the #5 light to a point
> light, then an area light, then a spotlight, and each of these
> renders of the character are identical (falloff is off), the only
> thing that changes is the light falling on different parts of the
> ground and a high wall object set up on one side.  (there is a subtle
> difference between the render of the Distant light and the others).
> I didn't expect this.   I thought each of the lights would be
> distinctive.  I'm guessing that having no falloff has something to do
> with this.

You're right, I found that the array doesn't make any difference, so
I zeroed out the intensity of all the array lights except the center
one, #5 (the others are parented to #5).  I had all 9 lights set at
12% intensity, so instead I set the #5 light to 108% (12x9), and the
render is identical to having all lights set at 12. (Ambient
Intensity is off.  The only light in the scene is from whatever light
I'm working with)

This Distant light I'm calling #5 is about 10 meters directly above,
and pointing straight down toward the 1.5 meter-tall character, who
is running from +Z toward -Z.  I changed the #5 light to a point
light, then an area light, then a spotlight, and each of these
renders of the character are identical (falloff is off), the only
thing that changes is the light falling on different parts of the
ground and a high wall object set up on one side.  (there is a subtle
difference between the render of the Distant light and the others).
I didn't expect this.   I thought each of the lights would be
distinctive.  I'm guessing that having no falloff has something to do
with this.

Leaving the light in its 10 meter high position, I reset #5 as a
Distant light and angled it 45 degrees on the Pitch toward the +Z
(the direction the character is coming from), this lit him up at a
steep angle from the front.  I tried 22 degrees, because the shadows
were deeper than I liked, and the change to a lower angle was
obvious, and better.  Then as a test, I moved the #5 light on its Z
axis, far away toward the -Z and there was no difference in the
render from when the light was directly above him.  I moved the light
in the opposite direction--far toward the +Z--and again, no
difference.

I had a Key light in position down at the end of the run (set to zero
intensity), so I decided to use the overhead #5 light to light him
from the back.  Without changing the light's position, I changed the
Pitch to 135 degrees so it was tilted toward the -Z (the direction
the character is going).  This lit him from the back as expected.
Then I turned on the Key light which is also a Distant light, and is
positioned way down at the end of the run, about one meter higher
than the character.  It's pointed toward him (+Z), and HPB are set to
zero.  This renders nicely with light on the front, and on the back
of the character with a contour-defining shadow area along his side.
I'll see how this looks when animated, and go on from there.

I'm only concerned with the character for the time being.  The wall I
have set up parallel to the run has a crowd mapped on it, like
they're sitting in the stands of a basketball game.  The character is
bouncing a basketball, running and changing direction after a while.
I've tried various things like HDRI, and different configurations of
Radiosity, but I think I need to learn more about this basic stuff
first.  (I need a different HDRI picture to light this, the ones I
found didn't do too well)  I'd like to continue to build this up from
complete darkness, and see what I can learn.

Thanks,
Greg


>
>
>--- In <mailto:lw3d%40yahoogroups.com>lw3d@yahoogroups.com, Lernie
>Ang <faulknermano@...> wrote:
>>
>>  You can use a light array of distant lights for your ambient
>>light, and another distant light for your key light; this way you
>>get a constant directional key light regardless of where your
>>character is in the scene.
>>  best,
>>  lernie.
>
>Given that (supposedly) only the rotation of a distant light
>matters, I'm surprised this would work-- a matrix of lights where
>the location doesn't matter seems redundant. ???

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

an evenly lit 'channel', or elongated pool of light

You would want to make an LW object, like the headlights of the Delorean back in
LW5.6.

You could also leave the character running in place, and move the hallway with
light and cone parented.

I also would work in Ambient as suggested.

GoodLuck

You know, you could use different lights for the character and the
background. Distant lights for the character, spots and areas for the
background...

Just a thought...

Will

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Jeric_Synergy <jeric_synergy@...>wrote:

>
>
> --- In lw3d@yahoogroups.com <lw3d%40yahoogroups.com>, Lernie Ang
> <faulknermano@...> wrote:
> >
> > You can use a light array of distant lights for your ambient light, and
> another distant light for your key light; this way you get a constant
> directional key light regardless of where your character is in the scene.
> > best,
> > lernie.
>
> Given that (supposedly) only the rotation of a distant light matters, I'm
> surprised this would work-- a matrix of lights where the location doesn't
> matter seems redundant. ???
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In lw3d@yahoogroups.com, Lernie Ang <faulknermano@...> wrote:
>
> You can use a light array of distant lights for your ambient light, and
another distant light for your key light; this way you get a constant
directional key light regardless of where your character is in the scene.
> best,
> lernie.

Given that (supposedly) only the rotation of a distant light matters, I'm
surprised this would work-- a matrix of lights where the location doesn't matter
seems redundant.  ???

Thanks guys for the ideas.  I'm trying out various things and thought
I'd run this by you to see what you'd say.  I will try out your
suggestions.  I know, I'm trying to learn to light.  People make
careers out of this, so I'm not expecting miracles overnight!  I need
to better understand how to generally light a stage area with
multiple lights.  For the long haul, this seems like a good thing to
know how to do.

The idea I started with was to establish some highlights that would
help shape the character's contours as he moved, with the light being
more or less consistent throughout, and then afterwards add
brightness overall.  I've tried various combinations of lighting
positions with and without Radiosity, and Global Illumination. (all
spotlights so far)  Now I'm working on hitting him with key and back
lights and no fill so I can see the highlights clearly.  I tried
adding Fresnel, but don't understand it well enough yet.  Parenting
lights to the character has worked for me before, but this time I
want to learn to light an area for this running man that would also
work if other characters moved in and out of it.  Maybe this is a
'proscenium' approach (as if I'm lighting a play), but I want to try
it.

Greg



>you have alot of cool lighting tools at your disposal, including a linear
>light. You could run it down the middle of your corridor.
>
>Also, not knowing the effect you are trying to achive, there is the option
>of HDRI images. Sometimes you could use a regular image for the lighting and
>exaggerated the light intensity. (esp. if you are focusing on the 'running
>man')
>
>Also, there is a really neat plugin to LW called LightBitch. That uses
>regular background images, to generate a solution of lights that will
>simulate HDRI lights, but you can use lower power directional lights etc for
>the effect.
>
>Also, if you use LightBitch, you can attach the light array the program
>generates to the character. It won't be like having a light attached to the
>character, it will be having a lighting rig attached to the character. They
>use those in BSG and Star Trek to light the Star Ships correctly...
>
>Just some random thoughts... good luck...
>
>Will
>
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Greg Reyna <greyna@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  I've been working on lighting a character that's running, basically
>>  in one direction. I have tried various methods based on
>>  key/back/fill but can't get anything I like. I mean, I'm getting
>>  mood light all over the place, but that's the problem. What I want
>>  is an evenly lit 'channel', or elongated pool of light, but so far my
>>  methods either suffer from overlapping lights, which create hot
>>  spots, or sporadic areas that are too dark. I want to avoid putting
>>  in lots of 'special' extra lights. I also want to avoid parenting a
>>  light to the character. I'd like to wind up with a lit area that a
>>  character could walk into and move around in and be well lit (on
>>  average). This seems to be the way to go for a general use lighting
>>  technique. I knew this wouldn't be easy, but it's proving to be
>>  frustrating. For example, at the moment, for the keys, I'm working
>>  on lining them up from one side and keeping them close together with
>>  a narrow spot beam to avoid overlaps.
>>
>>  Should I create 'barn doors' for the lights, and then butt them up
>>  against each other? Should I create an elongated object, and turn it
>>  into a light? I have books such as one called TV Lighting Methods,
>>  which shows various light placement techniques, and naturally I have
>>  one of Nicholas Boughen's books, but it's an older version for LW
>>  7.5, so it doesn't have the latest lights and techniques.
>>
>>  Also, since I have 21 lights so far, this wouldn't be possible
>>  without FPrime (latest version). I'm running the latest version of
>>  LW on a Mac dual 1.42 GHz G4 running 10.5.7
>>
>>  Would anyone like to make a suggestion?
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>  Greg Reyna
>>
>>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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I set up Render Globals to 'Overlay Frame Number' on rendered frames
but now every time I save the scene, LW opens a second requester to
ask me if I want to change the Data Overlay Label to [the name of
scene].  I don't see a way to shut this off.  In Render Globals
there's an input field next to 'Overlay Frame Number', is there a
magic word to enter in there to stop this extra requester?

In General Prefs, I have Alert Level set to Low.

Thanks,
Greg Reyna

You can use a light array of distant lights for your ambient light, and another
distant light for your key light; this way you get a constant directional key
light regardless of where your character is in the scene.

best,

lernie.


--- On Wed, 11/18/09, Will Silver <willsilver@...> wrote:

> From: Will Silver <willsilver@...>
> Subject: Re: [LW] Lighting a run
> To: lw3d@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 12:44 PM
> you have alot of cool lighting tools
> at your disposal, including a linear
> light. You could run it down the middle of your corridor.
>
> Also, not knowing the effect you are trying to achive,
> there is the option
> of HDRI images. Sometimes you could use a regular image for
> the lighting and
> exaggerated the light intensity. (esp. if you are focusing
> on the 'running
> man')
>
> Also, there is a really neat plugin to LW called
> LightBitch. That uses
> regular background images, to generate a solution of lights
> that will
> simulate HDRI lights, but you can use lower power
> directional lights etc for
> the effect.
>
> Also, if you use LightBitch, you can attach the light array
> the program
> generates to the character. It won't be like having a light
> attached to the
> character, it will be having a lighting rig attached to the
> character. They
> use those in BSG and Star Trek to light the Star Ships
> correctly...
>
> Just some random thoughts... good luck...
>
> Will
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Greg Reyna <greyna@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I've been working on lighting a character that's
> running, basically
> > in one direction. I have tried various methods based
> on
> > key/back/fill but can't get anything I like. I mean,
> I'm getting
> > mood light all over the place, but that's the problem.
> What I want
> > is an evenly lit 'channel', or elongated pool of
> light, but so far my
> > methods either suffer from overlapping lights, which
> create hot
> > spots, or sporadic areas that are too dark. I want to
> avoid putting
> > in lots of 'special' extra lights. I also want to
> avoid parenting a
> > light to the character. I'd like to wind up with a lit
> area that a
> > character could walk into and move around in and be
> well lit (on
> > average). This seems to be the way to go for a general
> use lighting
> > technique. I knew this wouldn't be easy, but it's
> proving to be
> > frustrating. For example, at the moment, for the keys,
> I'm working
> > on lining them up from one side and keeping them close
> together with
> > a narrow spot beam to avoid overlaps.
> >
> > Should I create 'barn doors' for the lights, and then
> butt them up
> > against each other? Should I create an elongated
> object, and turn it
> > into a light? I have books such as one called TV
> Lighting Methods,
> > which shows various light placement techniques, and
> naturally I have
> > one of Nicholas Boughen's books, but it's an older
> version for LW
> > 7.5, so it doesn't have the latest lights and
> techniques.
> >
> > Also, since I have 21 lights so far, this wouldn't be
> possible
> > without FPrime (latest version). I'm running the
> latest version of
> > LW on a Mac dual 1.42 GHz G4 running 10.5.7
> >
> > Would anyone like to make a suggestion?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Greg Reyna
> > 
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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> Groups Links
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>
>

you have alot of cool lighting tools at your disposal, including a linear
light. You could run it down the middle of your corridor.

Also, not knowing the effect you are trying to achive, there is the option
of HDRI images. Sometimes you could use a regular image for the lighting and
exaggerated the light intensity. (esp. if you are focusing on the 'running
man')

Also, there is a really neat plugin to LW called LightBitch. That uses
regular background images, to generate a solution of lights that will
simulate HDRI lights, but you can use lower power directional lights etc for
the effect.

Also, if you use LightBitch, you can attach the light array the program
generates to the character. It won't be like having a light attached to the
character, it will be having a lighting rig attached to the character. They
use those in BSG and Star Trek to light the Star Ships correctly...

Just some random thoughts... good luck...

Will

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Greg Reyna <greyna@...> wrote:

>
>
> I've been working on lighting a character that's running, basically
> in one direction. I have tried various methods based on
> key/back/fill but can't get anything I like. I mean, I'm getting
> mood light all over the place, but that's the problem. What I want
> is an evenly lit 'channel', or elongated pool of light, but so far my
> methods either suffer from overlapping lights, which create hot
> spots, or sporadic areas that are too dark. I want to avoid putting
> in lots of 'special' extra lights. I also want to avoid parenting a
> light to the character. I'd like to wind up with a lit area that a
> character could walk into and move around in and be well lit (on
> average). This seems to be the way to go for a general use lighting
> technique. I knew this wouldn't be easy, but it's proving to be
> frustrating. For example, at the moment, for the keys, I'm working
> on lining them up from one side and keeping them close together with
> a narrow spot beam to avoid overlaps.
>
> Should I create 'barn doors' for the lights, and then butt them up
> against each other? Should I create an elongated object, and turn it
> into a light? I have books such as one called TV Lighting Methods,
> which shows various light placement techniques, and naturally I have
> one of Nicholas Boughen's books, but it's an older version for LW
> 7.5, so it doesn't have the latest lights and techniques.
>
> Also, since I have 21 lights so far, this wouldn't be possible
> without FPrime (latest version). I'm running the latest version of
> LW on a Mac dual 1.42 GHz G4 running 10.5.7
>
> Would anyone like to make a suggestion?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg Reyna
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hmm, I think that you might expect lighting changes when a character run
thru an enviroment, it's a natural phenomenon, unless he's running in a
sunny day, but even so... there are always shadows and stuff..

So my opinion is to keep the variations you have, and maybe do a render pass
with a distant light, so you have a even light "channel" you can compose
later.

What kind of light are those 21 lights? spot?

You could take advantage of the ambient light LW have aswell..


I did a run once, but it was a cellshaded animation =P

-Felipe




2009/11/17 emmanuel unogu <evilkid007@...>

>
>
> am guessing you could HDRI maps and a few area Area lights..but then render
> times might skyrocket.  just my 25cents thoughts!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

am guessing you could HDRI maps and a few area Area lights..but then render
times might skyrocket.  just my 25cents thoughts!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been working on lighting a character that's running, basically
in one direction.  I have tried various methods based on
key/back/fill but can't get anything I like.  I mean, I'm getting
mood light all over the place, but that's the problem.  What I want
is an evenly lit 'channel', or elongated pool of light, but so far my
methods either suffer from overlapping lights, which create hot
spots, or sporadic areas that are too dark.  I want to avoid putting
in lots of 'special' extra lights.  I also want to avoid parenting a
light to the character.  I'd like to wind up with a lit area that a
character could walk into and move around in and be well lit (on
average). This seems to be the way to go for a general use lighting
technique.  I knew this wouldn't be easy, but it's proving to be
frustrating.  For example, at the moment, for the keys, I'm working
on lining them up from one side and keeping them close together with
a narrow spot beam to avoid overlaps.

Should I create 'barn doors' for the lights, and then butt them up
against each other?  Should I create an elongated object, and turn it
into a light?  I have books such as one called TV Lighting Methods,
which shows various light placement techniques, and naturally I have
one of Nicholas Boughen's books, but it's an older version for LW
7.5, so it doesn't have the latest lights and techniques.

Also, since I have 21 lights so far, this wouldn't be possible
without FPrime (latest version).  I'm running the latest version of
LW on a Mac dual 1.42 GHz G4 running 10.5.7

Would anyone like to make a suggestion?

Thanks,
Greg Reyna

Place spotlights at each mirror or at the last mirror as needed.
Tell the spotlights to project the image you need projected.
This should allow you to fake the effect. You can even turn on volumetrics for
each spot to get a hint of the image being projected thru space.

-Larry


>
> I am trying to simulate the display of a Panasonic projector reflected off a
mirror.  The image needs to be reflected from a mirror to a projection screen.
It seems like Lightwave is not able to do this, or I'm missing something.
>
> I have set up 2 mirrors, with a spotlight used as the projector.  I have
assigned an image to the light.  I have set up a camera to look along the axis
of the light into the first mirror. The image is projected onto the glass and
frame of the first mirror, but apparently not reflected onto the 2nd mirror.  I
can see the second mirror, and even a  3rd and 4th, but none of the even
numbered mirrors have the image projection, only the odd numbers.
>
> Any suggestions?  Is it even possible in Lightwave?  Does anyone know if 3D
Studio can do this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark M.
>