(Got all it working -Martin)

[Summary] OpenGL 1.2.4 or higher & ATI Radeon Mac Edition PCI under OS
8.x
<http://www.techsurvivors.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007532#\
000007>

"Kimo B. Yap" wrote:

InterfaceLib is both in the ROM and in the data fork of the system file;
I believe the versions are different, though.

I don't have a lot of context on this, but I have noticed various
complaints about Interfacelib in things when it was Carbon application
with Carbonlib around 1.5 or later, and not all extensions were loaded
(but CarbonLib was loaded). In my case, it was using ConflictCatcher and
stopping extension loaded some time after CarbonLib loaded. If you
stopped it before CarbonLib loaded, the Carbonized program would
complain that CarbonLib wasn'tavailable (as expected), but if I stopped
afterwards I'd get a complaint about some component of InterfaceLib not
being available.
<snip>

Fwd:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Inquiries Re: "Interfacelib--UpTime" & "ATI Displays"
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:53:18 -0700
From: "Martin A. Totusek" <bb553@...>
Reply-To: "Martin A. Totusek" <bb553@...>
To: Jamie Dresser <jdresser@...>

Greetings,

While the ATI RADEON MAC EDITION" PCI (with the newer extensions, etc.,
added; see below this for more details on how I did that...) also
appears to function under Mac OS 8.1 (I also added the newer APPLE
"Display Enabler" version 2.5 extension to Mac OS 8.1), when you try
to open the "ATI Displays" (Control Panel) to check or adjust the
settings, you get:

----------------------------

The application "ATI Displays" could not be opened because

"Interfacelib--UpTime"

could not be found.

----------------------------

Inquiries:

1) What exactly is "Interfacelib--UpTime"?

2) Where can it (the file itself) be located inside of Mac OS 8.6 or
higher?

3) Is it embedded into Mac OS 8.6 or higher?

I also note that the Mac OS 8.1 Monitors & Sound (Control Panel) also
now crashes IF you try the "Geometry" or "Color" buttons in the Control
Panel itself, although all other buttons and functions apear to work
fine.

Sincerely,
Martin A. Totusek

"Martin A. Totusek" previously wrote:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: "ATI RADEON MAC EDITION" PCI under Mac OS 8.6
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:25:55 -0700
From: "Martin A. Totusek" <bb553@...>
To: Jamie Dresser <jdresser@...>
CC: Larry O'Connor <owc@...>

Hi Jamie,

RE:
<http://eshop.macsales.com/Reviews/Framework.cfm?page=/benchmarks/opengl86.html>

The card I did this with is the "RADEON MAC EDITION" PCI (not AGP, but
the ATI URLs are for both...) version on a 7600 upgraded with a Newer
Technology 400 Mhz MAXPowr CPU upgrade (that was purchased from OWC):

<http://www.ati.com/products/mac/radeonmacedition/index.html>
<http://www.ati.com/products/mac/radeonmacedition/specs.html>
<http://www.ati.com/support/products/mac/radeon/radeonmacedition.html>
<http://www.ati.com/products/faqs/macradeonfaq.html>

This is not the newer ATI RADEON 7000 PCI card. What I did certainly
may also work with the RADEON 9000 PRO MAC EDITION, RADEON 8500 MAC
EDITION, RADEON 7500 and MAC EDITION RADEON 7000 from ATI the way I've
gotten my older card to, but since I don't own all those cards (and PCI
and AGP machines for all of them), I can't test it to find out for sure.

You also might want to mention that on machines like the 7200, 7300,
7500, 7600, 8500, 9500 and some others, you generally have to remove the
lower nut on the VGA connector on the ATI cards for them to fit in the
PCI slots. Otherwise the lower nut on the card's VGA connector may catch
on the outer case and will prevent the card from correctly seating in
the PCI slot.

I was hampered by several factors intially...

ATI had and has failed to respond to any of my postal letters and emails
(and I'm a registered user) dealing with this or any other issues,
including the fact that the some of newly purchased "ATI RADEON MAC
EDITION" <http://www.ati.com/products/mac/radeonmacedition/index.html>
PCI cards have not had the software install CD-ROMs in the box (as was
the case with mine). Charles W. Moore and AppleLinks previously posted
the entire text of my last communication to ATI online, which included
the mention of the non-response to letters and emails

This left me (the end user) with no help from ATI regarding even the
issues of locating the original Mac OS 8.6-compatible ATI software for
the "ATI RADEON MAC EDITION" PCI version of the card (which took two
months just to do as ATI currently ONLY posts the AGP version of it's
version 1.0 software for Mac OS 8.6, NOT the PCI version, besides their
non-response...) from other Mac users would had bought the card.

Unfortunately, ATI is the only place now to get PCI (as opposed to AGP
cards for new machines) graphics cards for older Power Macintoshes, that
can be made to work under OS 8.x and OS 9.x that I know of, with 3fx
being gone in large part thanks to Microsoft's crap about 3fx writing
their own drivers, (that didn't use MS's specs and then worked better
than drivers written the MS way...).

I first installed APPLE's OpenGL 1.2.1 (which also installs QuickDraw 3D
1.6), over the old OpenGL 1.0 (having archived the older OpenGL and
other software first) that I had previously installed in Mac OS 8.6.

Note: APPLE still only posts only the OpenGL 1.2.1 full installer for
Mac OS 8.1 through Mac OS 9 at:
<http://developer.apple.com/opengl/downloads.html>, rather than posting
a full installer of the newer OpenGL software (version 2.4 and above)
for the Traditional Mac OS; This is probably partly to try to force
everyone to try to use OS X even though many of the needed hardwares and
softwares that are used are not yet functional under Mac OS X (give it
several more years and the needed drivers and updates should hopefully
be here), besides trying to force the 25 million + pre-native G3 and G4
CPU Power Macintoshes currently in use running Mac OS 8.1, 8.6, 9.0.4
and 9.1 (the 25 million + figure quote is from APPLE's site).

I applied the very hard to find ATI Retail Radeon PCI software version
1.0 installer. Then having backed up the older software extensions and
control panel that were installed, I applied the next two retail updates
from ATI (and backed up each new version installed before applying any
newer update).

I had ended up having to purchase the APPLE full install CD-ROMs of Mac
OS 9.1, 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 (the second two via getting OS X boxes, as OS
9.2.1 & OS 9.2.2 are not sold separately) to extract the newer OpenGL
extensions from (After adding them and then completing this process, I
noted that the ATI Displays control panel registered all of them, unlike
some of the earlier versions);

Then I applied the ATI Retail Update - July 2002 (you get a message that
you are installing an unsupported configuration, but it installs fine).

I double-checked that each version installed was newer (replacing
anything older with anything newer from what I'd archived).

Then (just to be careful) while booting off a custom 8.6 CD-ROM I made,
I ran Disk First Aid (version 8.6.1), Disk Warrior 2.1.1, and then
rebooted from the Mac OS 8.6 HD and rebuilt the Desktop.

It all works now.

If any variations of this are successful with other newer (and/or older)
ATI graphics cards, please let me know the details.

Sincerely,
Martin A. Totusek

Jamie Dresser wrote:

---------------------------------------- (on the network)

email-body was scanned and no virus found
---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi-

Larry asked me to drop you a note. I wrote an article on how to do this
modification.

<http://eshop.macsales.com/Reviews/Framework.cfm?page=/benchmarks/opengl86.html>

Anything you want changed, added, please LMK.

THANKS!!
Jamie Dresser
OWC

------ Begin Forwarded Message ------

"Martin A. Totusek" wrote:

"ATI RADEON MAC EDITION" PCI card now functioning under Mac OS 8.6 on an
APPLE Power Macintosh 7600, upgraded with a Newer Technology 400 MHz
MAXPowr G4 CPU upgrade for PCI Power Macintoshes.

Below is a description of the machine, including a list of extra Control
Panels and Extensions from several sources (mostly extracted via the
Traditional Mac OS utility "TomeViewer 1.3d3" by Mark Young & Johnathan
Suker, from final versions of Mac OS 9.2.x) that have been added to the
regular Mac OS 8.6 System Folder to help enable the "ATI RADEON MAC
EDITION" PCI card. Some may not needed.

Note: This is not an APPLE or ATI officially supported configuration:

======================================================
======================================================

=== MACINTOSH SYSTEM =================================

Hard Disk Name: Mac OS 8.6 HD
System Name: Power Macintosh 7600
Machine Number: $44
Processor Type: $10C (PPC G4)
ROM Version: $77D
System Version: 8.6.0
Physical Memory Size: 512.0 MB
Logical Memory Size: 512.0 MB
- Virtual Memory OFF
Display Manager Version: 2.4.4
OpenGL for Macintosh Version: 1.2.4
QuickDraw™ Version: 2.5.1
QuickDraw™ 3D Version: 160.80.0
QuickDraw™ 3D RAVE Version: 1.6
QuickDraw™ GX Version: Not Installed.
QuickTime™ Version: 6.0.0
QuickTime™ Conferencing Version: Not Installed.

=== ATI SOFTWARE ====================

ATI 3D Accelerator Version: 5.0.4
ATI 8500 3D Accelerator Version: 7.0.4
ATI Desktop Video Version: Not Installed.
ATI Desktop Video Extension Version: Not Installed.
ATI Displays Control Panel Version: 2.8.6
ATI Extension Version: 2.8.5
ATI Graphics Accelerator Version: 5.6.5
ATI Mac2TV™ Monitor Version: 2.8.5
ATI Mac2TV Startup Version: Not Installed.
ATI MPEG Accelerator Version: Not Installed.
ATI Offscreen Mem Manager Version: Not Installed.
ATI Radeon 3D Accelerator Version: 6.4.4
ATI Rage 128 3D Accelerator Version: 6.4.4
ATI Resource Manager Version: 3.1.3
ATI Shared Library Not Installed.
ATI Sound Catalyst Version: Not Installed.
ATI Tuner Version: Not Installed.
ATI Video Accelerator Version: 4.8.7
ATI Video Digitizer Version: 4.3.7
ATI Video Memory Manager Version: Not Installed.
ATI YUV Accelerator Version: Not Installed.
OpenGLRendererATI Version: 1.3.2

=== DISPLAYS =================================

Number of Cards with attached displays: 1

Display Number: 1
Display ID: 261
Display Type: AppleVision 1710 Display
Video Card Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Driver Name in Registry: ATY,RADEONp
ROM Version: 2
ROM Number: 113-77701-126
Memory Number: 113-77701-126
Memory: 33 MB
Physical Display Size: 1024 x 768
Virtual Display Size: 1024 x 768
Connect Flags: $184
Raw Sense Code: $6
Extended Sense: $2B
Available Resolution:
640 x 480, 60Hz
640 x 480, 67Hz
640 x 480, 72Hz
640 x 480, 75Hz
800 x 600, 56Hz
800 x 600, 60Hz
800 x 600, 72Hz
800 x 600, 75Hz
832 x 624, 75Hz
1024 x 768, 60Hz
1024 x 768, 70Hz
• 1024 x 768, 74.9Hz
1024 x 768, 75Hz
1152 x 870, 75Hz
1280 x 960, 75Hz
1280 x 1024, 60Hz
1280 x 1024, 75Hz

======================================================
======================================================

=== CONTROL PANELS ===========================

APPC ATI Displays (Version: 2.8.6)

APPC SuperRes (Version 1.1; by Griffin Technology, Inc.)

=== EXTENSION FILES ==========================

shlb ATI 3D Accelerator (5.0.4)
shlb ATI 8500 3D Accelerator (7.0.4)
INIT ATI Extension (2.8.5)
INIT ATI Graphics Accelerator (5.6.5)
poco ATI Guide (2.4.1)
appe ATI Mac2TV™ Monitor (2.8.5)
shlb ATI Radeon 3D Accelerator (6.4.4)
shlb ATI Rage 128 3D Accelerator (6.4.4)
shlb ATI Resource Manager (3.1.3)
ndrv ATI ROM Xtender (1.1.2)
appe ATI Video Accelerator (4.8.7)
thng ATI Video Digitizer (4.3.7)

INIT Built-In Graphics Accelerator (1.0)
INIT CarbonLib (1.6)

gbly Classic (9.1.2)
shlb Classic RAVE (1.7.2)
FNDR Classic Support (2.0)
bbox Classic Support UI (2.0)

INIT NVIDIA 2D Acceleration (2.4)
ndrv NVIDIA Driver (2.4)
shlb NVIDIA DVD Accelerator (2.4)
shlb NVIDIA Engine (2.4)
shlb NVIDIA OpenGL (2.4)
thng NVIDIA Video Accelerator (2.4)

shlb OpenGLEngine (1.2.4)
shlb OpenGLLibrary (1.2.4)
shlb OpenGLMemory (1.2.4)
shlb OpenGLRenderer (1.2.4)
shlb OpenGLRendererATI (1.3.2)
shlb OpenGLUtility (1.2.4)

shlb QD3DCustomElements (1.6)
INIT QuickDraw™ 3D (1.6)
shlb QuickDraw™ 3D IR (1.6)
shlb QuickDraw™ 3D RAVE (1.7.2)

======================================================
======================================================

Note: I have not (yet) tested to see if this configuration also works on
a PCI Power Macintosh with an "ATI RADEON Mac Edition" PCI card under
Mac OS 8.1, 8.5 or 8.5.1, I've only tested this configuration under Mac
OS 8.6 & 9.0.4.

If I wasn't on a 56 Kbps modem, I'd simply make a .sit archive of all of
the above and archive it online for other Mac users to be able to
experiment and research with. None-the-less, I do hope that this
information can be of use to others who currently also need to boot
under Mac OS 8.6 at this time, and would like their "ATI RADEON Mac
Edition" PCI cards to be functional under Mac OS 8.6

Sincerely,
Martin A. Totusek

c. FILE.

------ End of Forwarded Message ------

Sincerely,

Jamie Dresser
Product Manager & New Product Development
Other World Computing, Inc.
A division of New Concepts Development Corporation
1004 Courtaulds Drive
Woodstock, Illinois 60098
Sales & Customer Service (800) 275-4576 x 125
Fax (815) 338-4332

-+=-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-+=-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-+=-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-



"Martin A. Totusek" previously wrote to mac-wizards:

Thank You for your Reply. I have most of the drivers and software from
both APPLE and from ATI:

The issue is that not all of them appear to be fully enabled under Mac
OS 8.6 (or under 8.1 through 8.5.1) through Mac OS 9.1, and that there
is a lack of support for both older and newer ATI PCI graphics cards
(compared to much more support for AGP slots and cards) on the Mac
Platform. ATI has failed to respond to emails, phone calls and postal
letters on anything at all (so much for any real tech support for
registered ATI Macintosh customers), including the fact that the ATI
Radeon Mac Edition PCI that I purchased brand new did not even contain
any ATI software CD-ROM at all. I had to go all over the Internet
hunting for ATI software, as ATI does not post it's earlier compatible
with ATI PCI cards and Mac OS 8.6 drivers and software (they very
strangely only post the earlier compatible with ATI AGP cards and Mac OS
8.6 drivers and software), and they failed to reply to emails, phone
calls and postal letters. The texts of what I sent to ATI and around the
Internet about those issues were also posted
at AppleLinks.com, and commented on at AppleLinks by writer Charles W.
Moore.

I'm checking to see if anyone has figured out how to make sure that they
are fully enabled (I can send information on what I've got installed to
compare with what other have installed and/or have tried).

It is also possible that there may be an actual OpenGL 1.2.4 or higher
Full Installer and Tome for the Traditional Mac OS that APPLE simply has
not released to either developers (as an ADC member, I've seen no sign
of anything higher than OpenGL 1.2.1) or the public, as APPLE wants
everyone to buy all new machines and only use Mac OS X. With over 25
million pre-native G3 and G4 CPU machines in use (according to APPLE's
own figures), that are primarily PCI PowerPC machines that originally
shipped with 603, 603e, 604 and 604e RISC CPU (generally now upgraded
with G3 or G4 CPU upgrades from vendors like Newer Technology, Sonnet,
XLR8 by Interex, PowerLogix R&D, etc.), and most are Mac OS 8.x and 9.x
users, these issues are not going away soon.

-Martin Totusek

------------------------------

KwikFreck wrote:

I know that the most current Open GL drivers are available on the newest
ATI graphics cards. I don't know what size your ATI card is now (8mb?,
16mb? 32?) if your card is setup to run the newer openGL drivers then so
should be your mac. I don't think it has anything to do with your O/S
unless the newer graphics cards aren't compatible. If that's the case,
then you could try the Morpheus (Gnutella) file sharing network. I
know, I know, no one seems to have heard of it. But believe me, I have
found all sorts of drivers and upgrades through that peer to peer
network. Try it www.musiccity.com/morpheus

------------------------------

Original Query:

Inquiry:

I'm seeking information on

1) OpenGL 1.2.4 or higher, and how to add and enable it to older Power
Macintoshes running Mac OS 8.6 through Mac OS 9.1. Adding and enabling
OpenGL 1.2.4 or higher under Mac OS 8.1 through 8.5.1 is a secondary
goal. Via "TomeViewer" extracting the files from a Mac OS 9.2.2 full
install disk is the only way I've found currently to install, as APPLE
has not posted an version of the OpenGL full installer above OpenGL
1.2.1 online that I'm aware of.

2) Ways to fully enable the ATI Radeon Mac Edition PCI under Mac OS 8.1
through Mac OS 8.6

-Martin A. Totuse