I've been thinking about black holes, specifically event horizons. A few years
ago, something occurred to me about how it appears to an observer approaching a
black hole's event horizon.

The event horizon is not a physical thing. In thinking about it, it is not even
a fixed boundary, but a relative thing.

Earth's escape velocity is about 11.2m/s. That means if you start at the surface
at 11.2m/s straight up, you'll keep traveling upwards, always decelerating with
a speed approaching zero but never quite stopping. But if a space station is
merely in orbit a few thousand miles up, you'll still reach the station with
some velocity.

Imagine 11.2m/s is light speed and you've replaced Earth with a black hole of
sufficient mass to result in 1G of force at the radius where the surface of
Earth is now.

So that would put the Event Horizon at Earth's surface. Of course a photon does
not decelerate, it red-shifts as it loses energy from gravitational pull.

If a photon traveling at 11.2m/s left starting at that event horizon, it would
be infinitely red-shifted only to an observer that is at an infinite distance.
But to that space station in orbit a few miles up, the photon would not be
infinitely red-shifted, only red-shifted down some but still reaching it with
energy left.

That means that if a photon were to start out a little -inside- the event
horizon, it still might have some energy left by the time it reaches the space
station. To be infinitely red-shifted by the time it reaches a station only a
few miles up, the photon would have to start some distance inside the event
horizon.

To a space station in orbit even closer, the photon could start even farther
inside the event horizon.

The upshot? To an observer falling into a black hole large enough that tidal
forces don't rip them apart too soon, it will appear that the event horizon is
receding as the observer approaches it. And events previously hidden inside the
event horizon should become visible, and that you can only get closer but never
reach the event horizon.
  Steve Greenfield
Electronic Engineering Technician student
Electronic Technician 20+ years
CET Computers and Consumer Electronics
IPC-A-610D CIS Specialist

Happening in Seattle, WA, USA.
 Steve Greenfield
Electronic Engineering Technician student
Electronic Technician 20+ years
CET Computers and Consumer Electronics
IPC-A-610D CIS Specialist



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: William Beaty <billb@...>
To: weirdsci-announce@...
Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 6:06:36 PM
Subject: [WSCI]: FRIDAY WEIRD SCIENCE MEETING


As usual, we need a $2 donation for the meeting space.  BRING SNACKS!


                                  WEIRD
                                  SCIENCES
                                  'SALON'

              Next Meeting: Friday, Nov 6, 2009  730pm to 12PM

    _________________________________________________________________

  ATTENTION ALL TESLA WORSHIPPERS, FREE-ENERGY BUFFS, "CRAZY" INVENTORS,
      ANOMALY HUNTERS, SCALAR RESEARCHERS, ANTIGRAVITATIONALISTS,
                            AND O/U  -NITARIANS!  ;)
    _________________________________________________________________

  Meetings of Seattle's "weird sciences group" will take place the first
  Friday of each month, 730pm to midnight or more.  The next meeting is
  on the 1st Friday,  11/6/2009 on Capitol Hill

        The next meeting will be at MUSEUM OF THE MYSTERIES,
        623 Broadway Ave East.  The museum is in a storefront on
        Broadway, downstairs, next to Aoki Sushi and Deluxe Bar and Grill
        (and very close to Harvard Exit theater.)  Note Bigfoot statue!
        see: UFO/PARANORMAL GROUP,  http://www.seattlechatclub.org/

        MAP OF SECRET PARKING PLACES:
        http://amasci.com/graphics/musmap2.gif

    _________________________________________________________________

    Travel:

    SEE THE [MAP LINK]  http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/seameet.html
    http://tinyurl.com/ybkpc4n

    Travel: Coming from the north, going south on I-5, in Seattle, get
    onto Broadway by taking the Denny St. exit, go a few blocks straight
    then turn left onto Denny.  Go up the hill several blocks, go
    diagonally left onto Olive Way, then turn left onto Broadway at the
    light. Museum of Mysteries is about four blocks up on Broadway, on
    the left, just before the stoplight where the stores all end (just
    before Broadway angles right and becomes Roy St.) It's not visible
    from the street, instead look for Deluxe Grill and Aoki Sushi. Note
    that parking is... difficult.

    Coming from the south, going north on I-5, in Seattle, take the
    E. Olive Way exit (down in the tunnel.)  Continue on Olive, after a
    few blocks turn left onto Broadway at the light. Museum of Mysteries
    is about four blocks up, on the left, just before the stoplight where
    the stores all end (just before Broadway angles right and becomes Roy
    St.) It's not visible from the street, instead look for Deluxe Grill
    and Aoki Sushi.

    If lost call the museum at 206-328-6499

    _________________________________________________________________

  Yes, the general public is very welcome to attend. BRING SNACKS!
    _________________________________________________________________

Email me at billb(a)eskimocom and ask to be put on the seattle weird-sci
email announcements list, or see http://amasci.com/wsci/


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (  (    (O)    )  )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
beaty * chem washington edu    Research Engineer
billb eskimo com                UW Chem Dept,  Bagley Hall RM74
206-543-6195                    Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700

Help Keep Santa Ric from being evicted!

I don't usually like to ask for help
but I am in a little bit of a predicament.

I had a busy summer season performing at
L. A. County Libraries with my puppet show and science show.
All went very well, kids and librarians loved the shows.

Well now is the time to be paid and the county is
slowing down it's method of paying talent
(as if it wasn't slow enough!)
I still haven't been paid for a library I did back on March 12, 2009!

As a renter I have a large bill to pay the first of each month
and since the summer money isn't here yet I was only able to pay a
portion of my rent
(which leaves nothing for utilities). Landlord is not a happy camper!
Yes I have done some shows recently but they are only a drop in the
bucket.

So in order to raise funds for the "Santa Ric Clan" I have assembled
a special bundle of informative Holiday Cooking ebooks.

"Santa's Christmas Cookbook Sale -
Five Informative Holiday Cooking ebooks."
All for only $9.95
Download now, Cook now!

http://simurl.com/santas_cookbook_sale
<http://simurl.com/santas_cookbook_sale>

What you get in this bundle-

"Gifts in a Jar"
Over 200 great Gift in a Jar Recipes
including Apple Cake, Banana Nut Bread,
Best Ever Chocolate Chip Cookies, Cranberry Hootycreeks,
Crazy Cake, Gourmet Cookie Mix, and much more, ALL IN A JAR!

"Favorite Christmas Cookies"
Treat your family to some new "All-time
Favorite Cookies" this Holiday Season!
Including New England Christmas Cookies, Christmas Cookie Slices,
Peanut ButterBars, Old Fashioned Butterscotch Cookies,
Almond Christmas Balls, Christmas Crescent Cookies, and more delictable
delights.

http://simurl.com/santas_cookbook_sale
<http://simurl.com/santas_cookbook_sale>

"Pumpkin Pies and More"
25 Pumpking Pie Recipies just in time for the Holidays.
Just some of the recipes in this ebook
include Pumpkin Cheesecake Pie with Gingersnap
Cookie Crust, Paradise Pumpkin Pie, Praline Pumpkin Pie,
and Pumpkin Pie Upside Down Cake.

"Holiday Candy and Fudge"
Pecan  Pralines, Raspberry  Divinity, Chocolate  Turtles, Coconut  Bon
Bons,
Martha  Washington  Candy,  Old  Fashion  Peanut  Brittle,
Almond  Bark  Candy, Coconut  Joys, Caramel  Snappers,
Maple  Nut  Candy, Fudge  Meltaways,
Easy  Christmas  Divinity, Potato  Candy, Peppermint
Patties, Layered  Mint  Fudge, Holiday  Fudge, Peanut  Butter  Fudge,
Marshmallow  Fudge, Rocky  Road Fudge,  AND MUCH MORE!

"A Homemade Christmas
100 Simple and Delicious Recipes For
Your Holiday Meals"
Including everything from Christmas Pickles to Apple Raisin Stuffing.

But Wait! There's more!
To sweetin the pot
I've added TWO MORE ebooks to the bundle.

"How to Handle Holiday Stress"

and a 47 page ebook of
Charles Dicken's "A Christmas Carol"
(read this before seeing the new 3-D movie!)

"Santa's Christmas Cookbook Sale -
Five (no Seven) Informative Holiday ebooks."
All for only $9.95
http://simurl.com/santas_cookbook_sale
<http://simurl.com/santas_cookbook_sale>


Thank you in advance for your help!
Santa Ric Morton
http://www.santa-santa.com <http://www.santa-santa.com/>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Monthly Reminder, please read:

Please try to stay on topic.
    *Off topic: religion, sports, politics, numerology, UFOs, you get the
picture. Please do not forward discussions from other lists. Start a discussion
here or just give us a link to the other discussion. I know, you are
enthusiastic about the subject, but there is no reason you can't just give us a
link.
    *Examples of on topic subjects: ultrasonic beam speakers, gravity powered
water pumps, cold fusion, beer can wireless LAN antennas, HERF devices, coil and
rail guns, "free" power (not the cranky over-unity stuff), geiger counters, mad
scientist props, building your own (real) flying saucer, you get the picture.

Subject lines:
    Remember to change the subject line if you are straying from the original
thread. Please change the subject line if you are on digest, as "Digest 1044"
means nothing to anyone.
    If you want an answer to a question, use a descriptive subject line. "Help
Me" is bad subject line. "How do I build electrorepulsive drives" is a good
subject line.
    Subject lines affect whether or not people even read your message, and affect
people searching the archives for help at a later date.

Trim messages- especially if you are receiving messages in digest form. By the
same token, quote enough so we know what you are responding to. "Yeah, I agree"
means nothing if no one knows who you are answering or what you are agreeing
with.

Do not send "unsubscribe" messages to the list. Either send an email to
"Mad_Scientist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com" or log onto your groups at
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups to edit your groups. If you are unable to
unsubscribe following these instructions, email the listowner at
Mad_Scientist-listowner@yahoogroups.com.

Please do -not- post virus warnings. This has been hashed to death on this list
and others. If we want to hear about soccer, we'll sign up on a soccer list, if
we want to hear about virii we'll sign up on a virus list. The list is set to
block attachments so no one should be able to get a virus from posts on the
list. Scan any files you upload for viruses. If you upload a file with a virus,
I'll be forced to eject you from the list as it means you did not properly scan
it for viruses first. Post RTF or Text files, not Word DOC files, as they can
carry viruses.

Spam- spammers will be treated with all the respect they deserve. See the list
main page for policy regarding "For Sale" items. OT sale ads, links, uploads,
etc. will be treated as spam and may result in your removal from the list and
banning from every other list I am listowner or moderator of.

Please remember that this is the Mad Scientist list. We're crazy, not stupid. 
With that in mind, here is an excerpt from The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus
Science from The Chronicle for Higher Education by Robert L. Park
http://chronicle.com
Section: The Chronicle Review
Volume 49, Issue 21, Page B20

1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media. The integrity of
science rests on the willingness of scientists to expose new ideas and findings
to the scrutiny of other scientists. Thus, scientists expect their colleagues to
reveal new findings to them initially. An attempt to bypass peer review by
taking a new result directly to the media, and thence to the public, suggests
that the work is unlikely to stand up to close examination by other scientists.
One notorious example is the claim made in 1989 by two chemists from the
University of Utah, B. Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, that they had
discovered cold fusion -- a way to produce nuclear fusion without expensive
equipment. Scientists did not learn of the claim until they read reports of a
news conference. Moreover, the announcement dealt largely with the economic
potential of the discovery and was devoid of the sort of details that might have
enabled other scientists to judge the strength of the claim or to repeat the
experiment. (Ian Wilmut's announcement that he had successfully cloned a sheep
was just as public as Pons and Fleischmann's claim, but in the case of cloning,
abundant scientific details allowed scientists to judge the work's validity.)
Some scientific claims avoid even the scrutiny of reporters by appearing in paid
commercial advertisements. A health-food company marketed a dietary supplement
called Vitamin O in full-page newspaper ads. Vitamin O turned out to be ordinary
saltwater.

2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his
or her work. The idea is that the establishment will presumably stop at nothing
to suppress discoveries that might shift the balance of wealth and power in
society. Often, the discoverer describes mainstream science as part of a larger
conspiracy that includes industry and government. Claims that the oil companies
are frustrating the invention of an automobile that runs on water, for instance,
are a sure sign that the idea of such a car is baloney. In the case of cold
fusion, Pons and Fleischmann blamed their cold reception on physicists who were
protecting their own research in hot fusion.

3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.
Alas, there is never a clear photograph of a flying saucer, or the Loch Ness
monster. All scientific measurements must contend with some level of background
noise or statistical fluctuation. But if the signal-to-noise ratio cannot be
improved, even in principle, the effect is probably not real and the work is not
science.

Thousands of published papers in para-psychology, for example, claim to report
verified instances of telepathy, psychokinesis, or precognition. But those
effects show up only in tortured analyses of statistics. The researchers can
find no way to boost the signal, which suggests that it isn't really there.

4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal. If modern science has learned anything
in the past century, it is to distrust anecdotal evidence. Because anecdotes
have a very strong emotional impact, they serve to keep superstitious beliefs
alive in an age of science. The most important discovery of modern medicine is
not vaccines or antibiotics, it is the randomized double-blind test, by means of
which we know what works and what doesn't. Contrary to the saying, "data" is not
the plural of "anecdote."

5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for
centuries. There is a persistent myth that hundreds or even thousands of years
ago, long before anyone knew that blood circulates throughout the body, or that
germs cause disease, our ancestors possessed miraculous remedies that modern
science cannot understand. Much of what is termed "alternative medicine" is part
of that myth.

Ancient folk wisdom, rediscovered or repackaged, is unlikely to match the output
of modern scientific laboratories.

6. The discoverer has worked in isolation. The image of a lone genius who
struggles in secrecy in an attic laboratory and ends up making a revolutionary
breakthrough is a staple of Hollywood's science-fiction films, but it is hard to
find examples in real life. Scientific breakthroughs nowadays are almost always
syntheses of the work of many scientists.

7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation. A
new law of nature, invoked to explain some extraordinary result, must not
conflict with what is already known. If we must change existing laws of nature
or propose new laws to account for an observation, it is almost certainly wrong.
I began this list of warning signs to help federal judges detect scientific
nonsense. But as I finished the list, I realized that in our increasingly
technological society, spotting voodoo science is a skill that every citizen
should develop.

Robert L. Park is a professor of physics at the University of Maryland at
College Park and the director of public information for the American Physical
Society. He is the author of Voodoo Science: The Road From Foolishness to Fraud
(Oxford University Press, 2002).

Full text of the article may be found at:
http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i21/21b02001.htm


Here is some stuff on debating, that might be of interest to both Amateur and
Master Baiters.<g>

Argumentum Ad Hominem is one of the logical fallacies of relevance:

http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm

...and therefore, is considered a debate-killer on many of the long-standing
Usenet newsgroups, and original CompuServe Forums (now in decline, since the
advent of the Web).

Godwin's Law is another famous debate-killer. Here is the entry in Eric
Raymond's compilation of early Internet trivia, the Jargon Files:

http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html

Here is Wingnut's Debate Dictionary:

http://stommel.tamu.edu/~baum/ethel/atrios-dictionary.html

...and lets not forget Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit:

http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/tps-seti/baloney.html

Bill Beatty said:
In fighting with irrational Scoffers on newsgroups, I developed a collection of
similar articles.    LOTS of people who claim to be Skeptics are actually
nothing of the sort.   Organized skepticism attracts people who hate the
unknown, and who pull all sorts of twisted manuvers to "win" debates (as opposed
to dwelling down to find the truth.)

The fallacy of one-sidedness
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/inflogic/onesided.htm

The clinical additude
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/inflogic/clinical.htm

Proper skepticism
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/skept.htm#introduction

Sham reasoning
http://www.csicop.org/si/9711/preposterism.html

Zen & the art of debunkery
http://members.aol.com/ddrasin/zen.html

More:  http://amasci.com/weird/wclose.html#dishon

Sounds like fun, wish I could go...
 Steve Greenfield
Electronic Engineering Technician student
Electronic Technician 20+ years
CET Journeyman
IPC-A-610D CIS Specialist



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: William Beaty <billb@...>
To: weirdsci-announce@...
Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 1:37:06 PM
Subject: [WSCI]:Tonight: Mad Scientist Theodore Gray 7:30 at Town Hall


http://townhallseattle.org/calendar.cfm?trumbaEmbed=eventid%3D85853397%26view%3D\
event%26-childview%3D

SCIENCE: THEODORE GRAY: "THE ELEMENTS"
Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 7:30 - 9pm
Great Hall, enter on 8th Avenue

Anyone who's walked into a basic chemistry classroom has seen the periodic
table-that blocky catalog of the elements that everything is made of. But
few have seen it as Theodore Gray hasMatter" column for Popular Science
and the new book The Elements: A Visual Exploration of Every Known Atom in
the Universe, spent five years researching and photographing the table's
118 elements in their purest, uncombined form.  Gray is a serious
scientist with a silly side: He co-founded Wolfram Research, which makes
the groundbreaking software Mathematica; won the tongue-in-cheek 2002 Ig
Nobel Prize in Chemistry for creating the Periodic Table Table, a wooden
table with compartments for each of the elements; and posted a bouncy
musical trailer for his new book on YouTube (link below). Presented as
part of Seattle Science Lectures, with Pacific Science Center and
University Book Store. Sponsored by Microsoft.

Tickets are $5 at www.brownpapertickets.com or 800/838-3006, and at the
door beginning at 6:30 pm. Town Hall members receive priority seating.


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (  (    (O)    )  )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com                        http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits  amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:01:40 -0700
From: William Beaty <beaty@...>
To: billb@...
Subject: Tonight: Mad Scientist Theodore Gray 7:30 at Town Hall


--
((((((((((((((((((((((( (  (    (o)    )  ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty              Research Engineer
beaty a chem washington edu  UW Chem Dept,  Bagley Hall RM74
billb a eskimo com            Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph206-543-6195                http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

How about using a computer with the DVD? You can use a scripting program like
AutoHotKey. It is fairly simple to create scripts to automate things like that.

http://www.autohotkey.com/

It even has a Random command.


 Steve Greenfield, CET Consumer and Computer
Electronic Engineering Technician student


________________________________
From: KronoNaut <gary.watts@...>

 
I'm working on an art project that would be made easier if I burned a DVD, and
could have it play a random chapter each time the play button is pressed.

Would anyone know if this can be done?

Thanks,
Gary Watts

I'm working on an art project that would be made easier if I burned a DVD, and
could have it play a random chapter each time the play button is pressed.

Would anyone know if this can be done?

Thanks,
Gary Watts

In India, right now, people are being supplied with parabolic solar cookers
(paid for by carbon offset money) to help stop deforestation.  The people are
being paid for every day they use them too.  But the problem of having to
readjust the dish every few minutes is coming up.
http://climatehealers.ning.com/
  And the usual usage problems of people getting flashed in the eyes, etc are
coming up.
Sure, it is not your problem and it is not my problem.
I do give a damn what other people think. I cannot help it if you cannot see
anything dramatic and new in it. Making a "Pseudo parabolic" dish that only
needs to be re adjusted every 2 hours instead of every 20 minutes or  half hour 
seems like a 4 to 6 times improvement. Would that not be dramatic?
Brian

--- In mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com, "Snaderson Davis" <gmyahoolists@...>
wrote:
>
> Brian,
> Frankly, I have almost no interest in a solar cooker, solar concentrator, or
> any other solar applications.  Is solar power mankind's salvation?  Maybe,
> but I doubt it.
>
> As a kid I burned a few ants, made a Fresnel lens furnace, and made a few
> solar cells for a science fair.  That was as a kid.  I am still curious and
> will glance at almost any scheme for solar energy, but until I see something
> really dramatic and new I don't think there will be much interest from
> anybody.  I just don't think there is a demand for solar cookers as you
> describe.
>
> Look, I could very well be wrong so I encourage you to follow your interests
> and dreams and not to give a damn about what anyone else thinks.
>
> Good luck,
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Brian
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:33 PM
> To: mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [mad_scientist] Is the "scientific method any good? Is peer review
> broken?
>
> Supposedly the scientific method means you publish stuff, people check it
> out and do the experiments themselves and say "hogwash" or "it works". I
> know that there is an official verson where you are supposed to write in to
> journals and if they accept your stuff they pass it around to others, but
> why not the more general thing where you just put it online and people try
> it and see if it works.
> I think something is really really wrong with the whole process.
> I found some work from a swedish mathematician and I think it is brilliant.
> (It is about solar concentration)  Only problem is it is over 30 years old
> and it seems to me that nobody has bothered to use it. He uses 2 troughs in
> sequence to get a point of light instead of using a dish.  I think that
> would have major implications for poor countrys. It is much easier making 2
> troughs than making one dish because you are just bending sheet material.
> http://kmr.nada.kth.se/files/pointfocus/PointFocus/PointFocus-Discovery.jpg
> People absolutely refuse to investigate this. I think it is really odd and
> perhaps a defect in humankind.
> I have a video trying to figure out why stuff gets ignored at
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH01GeW6QQ0
> If anyone wants to investigate combining 2 troughs to make solar cookers, I
> am trying to use free software (It is called art of illusion) to model how
> dishes and troughs work.
> It is in its initial stages and you can see some results at
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRhNRk_0js
> It suggests that parabolic dishes are wrong for solar cooking applications
> and other shapes should be looked at.
> The idea is to design a dish or combined trough that concentrates all the
> heat on the cooking vessel for 1,2 or 3 hours.  Parabolic dishes concentrate
> for 15 to 20 minutes which is a pain. Who wants to get heatstroke moving the
> stupid dish all the time?
> Nobody else is working on this stuff really, they have all gone in a herd to
> work on tracking for parabolic dishes. (Ignoring the fact that poor people
> who need solar cooking most cannot afford tracking).
> Anyway if you want to work on any aspect of this, please join
> http://solardesign.ning.com/ for more details about using art of illusion
> for this project and go to
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/aoi/forums/forum/47782/topic/2915545 for
> still more details
> Brian
>

Brian,
Frankly, I have almost no interest in a solar cooker, solar concentrator, or
any other solar applications.  Is solar power mankind's salvation?  Maybe,
but I doubt it.

As a kid I burned a few ants, made a Fresnel lens furnace, and made a few
solar cells for a science fair.  That was as a kid.  I am still curious and
will glance at almost any scheme for solar energy, but until I see something
really dramatic and new I don't think there will be much interest from
anybody.  I just don't think there is a demand for solar cookers as you
describe.

Look, I could very well be wrong so I encourage you to follow your interests
and dreams and not to give a damn about what anyone else thinks.

Good luck,
Michael





-----Original Message-----
From: mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Brian
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:33 PM
To: mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mad_scientist] Is the "scientific method any good? Is peer review
broken?

Supposedly the scientific method means you publish stuff, people check it
out and do the experiments themselves and say "hogwash" or "it works". I
know that there is an official verson where you are supposed to write in to
journals and if they accept your stuff they pass it around to others, but
why not the more general thing where you just put it online and people try
it and see if it works.
I think something is really really wrong with the whole process.
I found some work from a swedish mathematician and I think it is brilliant.
(It is about solar concentration)  Only problem is it is over 30 years old
and it seems to me that nobody has bothered to use it. He uses 2 troughs in
sequence to get a point of light instead of using a dish.  I think that
would have major implications for poor countrys. It is much easier making 2
troughs than making one dish because you are just bending sheet material.
http://kmr.nada.kth.se/files/pointfocus/PointFocus/PointFocus-Discovery.jpg
People absolutely refuse to investigate this. I think it is really odd and
perhaps a defect in humankind.
I have a video trying to figure out why stuff gets ignored at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH01GeW6QQ0
If anyone wants to investigate combining 2 troughs to make solar cookers, I
am trying to use free software (It is called art of illusion) to model how
dishes and troughs work.
It is in its initial stages and you can see some results at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRhNRk_0js
It suggests that parabolic dishes are wrong for solar cooking applications
and other shapes should be looked at.
The idea is to design a dish or combined trough that concentrates all the
heat on the cooking vessel for 1,2 or 3 hours.  Parabolic dishes concentrate
for 15 to 20 minutes which is a pain. Who wants to get heatstroke moving the
stupid dish all the time?
Nobody else is working on this stuff really, they have all gone in a herd to
work on tracking for parabolic dishes. (Ignoring the fact that poor people
who need solar cooking most cannot afford tracking).
Anyway if you want to work on any aspect of this, please join
http://solardesign.ning.com/ for more details about using art of illusion
for this project and go to
http://sourceforge.net/projects/aoi/forums/forum/47782/topic/2915545 for
still more details
Brian

Might be interesting, haven't read it yet myself.
  Steve Greenfield, CET Consumer and Computer
Electronic Engineering Technician student



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: William Beaty <billb@...>
To: weirdsci-announce@...
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 7:03:43 PM
Subject: [WSCI]:new magazine: "Edge Science"


Hey, SSE published a new magazine on alt-science, edited by Patrick
Huyghe of The Anomalist.    (I'm buying the paper version, so they'll
actually earn a few dollars.)



EdgeScience Magazine
New from SSE!

Why EdgeScience? Because, contrary to public perception, scientific
knowledge is still full of unknowns. What remains to be discovered - what
we don't know - very likely dwarfs what we do know.  And what we think we
know may not be entirely correct or fully understood.  Anomalies, which
researchers tend to sweep under the rug, should be actively pursued as
clues to potential breakthroughs and new directions in science.


ISSUE 1, OCT 2009
   http://www.scientificexploration.org/edgescience/

THE OBSERVATORY
*  Doing Science Means Exploring: An Editorial by Henry Bauer

NEWS NOTEBOOK
*  "Surely There's Nothing Left to Discover"
*  Just Off By a Factor of 1,000
*  A Mysterious Variation in Radioactive Decay Rates, By Peter Sturrock

FEATURES
*  Is the Global Mind Real?, By Roger D. Nelson
*  Pyramid Building in the Americas and Other Archeological
    Anomalies, By William Corliss

REFERENCE POINT
*  A Charged Life: Robert O. Becker and Gary Seldon's The Body
    Electric: Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life,
   Reviewed by Thomas M. Dykstra

BACKSCATTER
*  Straight From The Gut, By Patrick Huyghe


SIGN UP TO BE NOTIFIED OF NEW ISSUES
Email editor Patrick Huyghe at edgescience{}gmail.com



(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb amasci com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Sounds very interesting.
 Steve Greenfield, CET Consumer and Computer
Electronic Engineering Technician student



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: William Beaty <billb@...>
To: A discussion list for dorkbot-sea <dorkbotsea-blabber@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 10:53:44 PM
Subject: Re: [dorkbotsea-blabber] Metrix

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009, Josh Kopel wrote:

> WOW!!!
> Am I the last person to hear about this place?
> http://metrixcreatespace.com/

It doesn't exist.  Yet.  A secret known only to Museum of Mysteries (which
is right next door,) and hack-night attendees from Seattle Wirelesss.

Matt W. from seattlewireless.com has been working on the storefront for
quite some time, and now says it's official: Oct 15th grand opening for
his Espresso/hackers/makers store (next to Museum of Mysteries.)  They
offer laser cutting, 3D printer, and lots of bench space and soldering
stations.  Stop by, breathe rosin smoke, say hi to several Matt W's.

  http://metrixcreatespace.com/

See also:

  Wednesday Hack Night
  http://www.seattlewireless.net/HackNight/


>
> Does anyone know anything about them?
> It looks amazing.
>
>
> --
>
> josh kopel
>
> a big magnet blog <http://abigmagnet.blogspot.com>
>
> twitter / jkopel <http://twitter.com/jkopel>
>
>

(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (  (    (O)    )  )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com                        http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits  amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
........................................................................
.........dorkbot: people doing strange things with electricity..........
..........................http://dorkbot.org............................
........................................................................

Thank you. There are several tracking systems in use but they are not cheap.
There is also one based on low boiling point liquids.
  Both the dripper tracker things that I made can be cheaply made.  (They are not
trackers, but timers for the turning of the equatorial mount). I have made
conical cookers. They do not concentrate the heat quite as well as some other
types. I cooked with them and boiled water and steralized soil for gardening.
(The first summer I did solar experiments it was just cones)
  At the 7 liter in the cooking pot mark they did not perform as well as some
other types. Perhaps the heat was evenly distributed on the pot and not enough
on the bottom?  If you do deep parabolic trough, you might have the same
problem. (No point heating the lid of a cooking pot!) You got to send the heat
mostly to the bottom.
The solarcooking.org website lists very few trough designs and many dishes. For
mad scientists, there is also the winston w trough. It has a very big acceptance
angle. I want 2 things with solar cooking design.  A cooker that can do good
concentration for about 2 hours without moving it and  a tracking dish or
combined trough (not necessarly parabolic) that can be driven by the low tech
tracker (on equatorial mount) year round with the food dish stationary. There is
a 46 degree difference in the sun's highpoint in winter and the sun's highpoint
in summer. This makes parabolic dishes difficult. (See Scheffler solar kitchens
for more details on that difficulty)
Brian

--- In mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com, William Carr <jkirk3279@...> wrote:

> Decades ago, I read about an Australian team that came up with a
> simple, non-electronic tracker.   It used gas pistons, I think.   As
> the focus shifted, one piston would get hotter and thus push the
> trough back into focus.
>
>
> A parabolic trough can be scaled  quite easily.   If you play with the
> parameters, you can have a very deep trough capable of pretty high
> temperatures.
>
>
> It's parabolic dishes that get complex.   They have to be supported in
> 3D.
>
> As for actual experiments, you can make a cooker from a 3x5 rectangle
> of cardboard faced with mylar.  Cut a small hemisphere out of one long
> edge (to fit the cooking pot), and warp the sheet into a semi-conical
> shape.
>

On Oct 4, 2009, at 2:45 AM, Brian wrote:

> The troughs do not scale down well for solar cooking or other small
> scale solar applications. Thats why, if you see backyard solar at
> all, it is box cookers or parabolic dishes generally, and not troughs.
> And millions of people could benifit from better solar cooking. I
> did low tech tracking 2 years ago and smart asses would rather spend
> a hundred dollars on high tech tracking than 20 dollars on low tech.
> How is that scientific or economic sense? Lets pretend my low tech
> "clock based tracker" works. (None of you have tried it so we have
> to play pretend). So you set up a solar panel on the low tech
> tracker and you double or tripple the output. And you have just
> saved 80 bux that you can now use for another solar panel!
> This type of simple lesson should be useful to anyone who is not
> super rich. Any of you mad scientists do actual experiments?


Decades ago, I read about an Australian team that came up with a
simple, non-electronic tracker.   It used gas pistons, I think.   As
the focus shifted, one piston would get hotter and thus push the
trough back into focus.


A parabolic trough can be scaled  quite easily.   If you play with the
parameters, you can have a very deep trough capable of pretty high
temperatures.


It's parabolic dishes that get complex.   They have to be supported in
3D.

As for actual experiments, you can make a cooker from a 3x5 rectangle
of cardboard faced with mylar.  Cut a small hemisphere out of one long
edge (to fit the cooking pot), and warp the sheet into a semi-conical
shape.

I do actual experiments. But I don't discuss them until they fail.

-phar

> You only disappoint a little. The troughs do not scale down well for solar
cooking or other small scale solar applications. Thats why, if you see backyard
solar at all, it is box cookers or parabolic dishes generally, and not troughs.
> And millions of people could benifit from better solar cooking. I did low tech
tracking 2 years ago and smart asses would rather spend a hundred dollars on
high tech tracking than 20 dollars on low tech. How is that scientific or
economic sense?  Lets pretend my low tech "clock based tracker" works. (None of
you have tried it so we have to play pretend). So you set up a solar panel on
the low tech tracker and you double or tripple the output. And you have just
saved 80 bux that you can now use for another solar panel!
> This type of simple lesson should be useful to anyone who is not super rich.
Any of you mad scientists do actual experiments?
>
> --- In mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com, William Carr <jkirk3279@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:33 PM, Brian wrote:
> >
> > > Nobody else is working on this stuff really, they have all gone in a
> > > herd to work on tracking for parabolic dishes. (Ignoring the fact
> > > that poor people who need solar cooking most cannot afford tracking).
> >
> > Sorry to disappoint you, but the Concentrating Solar Power plant at
> > Kramer Junction in California has been happily making solar
> > electricity for decades with mirrored parabolic troughs.
> >
> > And you're right:   they are a lot easier to make than a parabolic dish.
> >
>

You only disappoint a little. The troughs do not scale down well for solar
cooking or other small scale solar applications. Thats why, if you see backyard
solar at all, it is box cookers or parabolic dishes generally, and not troughs.
And millions of people could benifit from better solar cooking. I did low tech
tracking 2 years ago and smart asses would rather spend a hundred dollars on
high tech tracking than 20 dollars on low tech. How is that scientific or
economic sense?  Lets pretend my low tech "clock based tracker" works. (None of
you have tried it so we have to play pretend). So you set up a solar panel on
the low tech tracker and you double or tripple the output. And you have just
saved 80 bux that you can now use for another solar panel!
This type of simple lesson should be useful to anyone who is not super rich. Any
of you mad scientists do actual experiments?

--- In mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com, William Carr <jkirk3279@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:33 PM, Brian wrote:
>
> > Nobody else is working on this stuff really, they have all gone in a
> > herd to work on tracking for parabolic dishes. (Ignoring the fact
> > that poor people who need solar cooking most cannot afford tracking).
>
> Sorry to disappoint you, but the Concentrating Solar Power plant at
> Kramer Junction in California has been happily making solar
> electricity for decades with mirrored parabolic troughs.
>
> And you're right:   they are a lot easier to make than a parabolic dish.
>

On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:33 PM, Brian wrote:

> Nobody else is working on this stuff really, they have all gone in a
> herd to work on tracking for parabolic dishes. (Ignoring the fact
> that poor people who need solar cooking most cannot afford tracking).

Sorry to disappoint you, but the Concentrating Solar Power plant at
Kramer Junction in California has been happily making solar
electricity for decades with mirrored parabolic troughs.

And you're right:   they are a lot easier to make than a parabolic dish.

Supposedly the scientific method means you publish stuff, people check it out
and do the experiments themselves and say "hogwash" or "it works". I know that
there is an official verson where you are supposed to write in to journals and
if they accept your stuff they pass it around to others, but why not the more
general thing where you just put it online and people try it and see if it
works.
I think something is really really wrong with the whole process.
I found some work from a swedish mathematician and I think it is brilliant.  (It
is about solar concentration)  Only problem is it is over 30 years old and it
seems to me that nobody has bothered to use it. He uses 2 troughs in sequence to
get a point of light instead of using a dish.  I think that would have major
implications for poor countrys. It is much easier making 2 troughs than making
one dish because you are just bending sheet material.
http://kmr.nada.kth.se/files/pointfocus/PointFocus/PointFocus-Discovery.jpg
People absolutely refuse to investigate this. I think it is really odd and
perhaps a defect in humankind.
I have a video trying to figure out why stuff gets ignored at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH01GeW6QQ0
If anyone wants to investigate combining 2 troughs to make solar cookers, I am
trying to use free software (It is called art of illusion) to model how dishes
and troughs work.
It is in its initial stages and you can see some results at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRhNRk_0js
It suggests that parabolic dishes are wrong for solar cooking applications and
other shapes should be looked at.
The idea is to design a dish or combined trough that concentrates all the heat
on the cooking vessel for 1,2 or 3 hours.  Parabolic dishes concentrate for 15
to 20 minutes which is a pain. Who wants to get heatstroke moving the stupid
dish all the time?
Nobody else is working on this stuff really, they have all gone in a herd to
work on tracking for parabolic dishes. (Ignoring the fact that poor people who
need solar cooking most cannot afford tracking).
Anyway if you want to work on any aspect of this, please join
http://solardesign.ning.com/ for more details about using art of illusion for
this project and go to
http://sourceforge.net/projects/aoi/forums/forum/47782/topic/2915545 for still
more details
Brian

Monthly Reminder, please read:

Please try to stay on topic.
    *Off topic: religion, sports, politics, numerology, UFOs, you get the
picture. Please do not forward discussions from other lists. Start a discussion
here or just give us a link to the other discussion. I know, you are
enthusiastic about the subject, but there is no reason you can't just give us a
link.
    *Examples of on topic subjects: ultrasonic beam speakers, gravity powered
water pumps, cold fusion, beer can wireless LAN antennas, HERF devices, coil and
rail guns, "free" power (not the cranky over-unity stuff), geiger counters, mad
scientist props, building your own (real) flying saucer, you get the picture.

Subject lines:
    Remember to change the subject line if you are straying from the original
thread. Please change the subject line if you are on digest, as "Digest 1044"
means nothing to anyone.
    If you want an answer to a question, use a descriptive subject line. "Help
Me" is bad subject line. "How do I build electrorepulsive drives" is a good
subject line.
    Subject lines affect whether or not people even read your message, and affect
people searching the archives for help at a later date.

Trim messages- especially if you are receiving messages in digest form. By the
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Do not send "unsubscribe" messages to the list. Either send an email to
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http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups to edit your groups. If you are unable to
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Mad_Scientist-listowner@yahoogroups.com.

Please do -not- post virus warnings. This has been hashed to death on this list
and others. If we want to hear about soccer, we'll sign up on a soccer list, if
we want to hear about virii we'll sign up on a virus list. The list is set to
block attachments so no one should be able to get a virus from posts on the
list. Scan any files you upload for viruses. If you upload a file with a virus,
I'll be forced to eject you from the list as it means you did not properly scan
it for viruses first. Post RTF or Text files, not Word DOC files, as they can
carry viruses.

Spam- spammers will be treated with all the respect they deserve. See the list
main page for policy regarding "For Sale" items. OT sale ads, links, uploads,
etc. will be treated as spam and may result in your removal from the list and
banning from every other list I am listowner or moderator of.

Please remember that this is the Mad Scientist list. We're crazy, not stupid. 
With that in mind, here is an excerpt from The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus
Science from The Chronicle for Higher Education by Robert L. Park
http://chronicle.com
Section: The Chronicle Review
Volume 49, Issue 21, Page B20

1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media. The integrity of
science rests on the willingness of scientists to expose new ideas and findings
to the scrutiny of other scientists. Thus, scientists expect their colleagues to
reveal new findings to them initially. An attempt to bypass peer review by
taking a new result directly to the media, and thence to the public, suggests
that the work is unlikely to stand up to close examination by other scientists.
One notorious example is the claim made in 1989 by two chemists from the
University of Utah, B. Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, that they had
discovered cold fusion -- a way to produce nuclear fusion without expensive
equipment. Scientists did not learn of the claim until they read reports of a
news conference. Moreover, the announcement dealt largely with the economic
potential of the discovery and was devoid of the sort of details that might have
enabled other scientists to judge the strength of the claim or to repeat the
experiment. (Ian Wilmut's announcement that he had successfully cloned a sheep
was just as public as Pons and Fleischmann's claim, but in the case of cloning,
abundant scientific details allowed scientists to judge the work's validity.)
Some scientific claims avoid even the scrutiny of reporters by appearing in paid
commercial advertisements. A health-food company marketed a dietary supplement
called Vitamin O in full-page newspaper ads. Vitamin O turned out to be ordinary
saltwater.

2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his
or her work. The idea is that the establishment will presumably stop at nothing
to suppress discoveries that might shift the balance of wealth and power in
society. Often, the discoverer describes mainstream science as part of a larger
conspiracy that includes industry and government. Claims that the oil companies
are frustrating the invention of an automobile that runs on water, for instance,
are a sure sign that the idea of such a car is baloney. In the case of cold
fusion, Pons and Fleischmann blamed their cold reception on physicists who were
protecting their own research in hot fusion.

3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.
Alas, there is never a clear photograph of a flying saucer, or the Loch Ness
monster. All scientific measurements must contend with some level of background
noise or statistical fluctuation. But if the signal-to-noise ratio cannot be
improved, even in principle, the effect is probably not real and the work is not
science.

Thousands of published papers in para-psychology, for example, claim to report
verified instances of telepathy, psychokinesis, or precognition. But those
effects show up only in tortured analyses of statistics. The researchers can
find no way to boost the signal, which suggests that it isn't really there.

4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal. If modern science has learned anything
in the past century, it is to distrust anecdotal evidence. Because anecdotes
have a very strong emotional impact, they serve to keep superstitious beliefs
alive in an age of science. The most important discovery of modern medicine is
not vaccines or antibiotics, it is the randomized double-blind test, by means of
which we know what works and what doesn't. Contrary to the saying, "data" is not
the plural of "anecdote."

5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for
centuries. There is a persistent myth that hundreds or even thousands of years
ago, long before anyone knew that blood circulates throughout the body, or that
germs cause disease, our ancestors possessed miraculous remedies that modern
science cannot understand. Much of what is termed "alternative medicine" is part
of that myth.

Ancient folk wisdom, rediscovered or repackaged, is unlikely to match the output
of modern scientific laboratories.

6. The discoverer has worked in isolation. The image of a lone genius who
struggles in secrecy in an attic laboratory and ends up making a revolutionary
breakthrough is a staple of Hollywood's science-fiction films, but it is hard to
find examples in real life. Scientific breakthroughs nowadays are almost always
syntheses of the work of many scientists.

7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation. A
new law of nature, invoked to explain some extraordinary result, must not
conflict with what is already known. If we must change existing laws of nature
or propose new laws to account for an observation, it is almost certainly wrong.
I began this list of warning signs to help federal judges detect scientific
nonsense. But as I finished the list, I realized that in our increasingly
technological society, spotting voodoo science is a skill that every citizen
should develop.

Robert L. Park is a professor of physics at the University of Maryland at
College Park and the director of public information for the American Physical
Society. He is the author of Voodoo Science: The Road From Foolishness to Fraud
(Oxford University Press, 2002).

Full text of the article may be found at:
http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i21/21b02001.htm


Here is some stuff on debating, that might be of interest to both Amateur and
Master Baiters.<g>

Argumentum Ad Hominem is one of the logical fallacies of relevance:

http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm

...and therefore, is considered a debate-killer on many of the long-standing
Usenet newsgroups, and original CompuServe Forums (now in decline, since the
advent of the Web).

Godwin's Law is another famous debate-killer. Here is the entry in Eric
Raymond's compilation of early Internet trivia, the Jargon Files:

http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html

Here is Wingnut's Debate Dictionary:

http://stommel.tamu.edu/~baum/ethel/atrios-dictionary.html

...and lets not forget Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit:

http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/tps-seti/baloney.html

Bill Beatty said:
In fighting with irrational Scoffers on newsgroups, I developed a collection of
similar articles.    LOTS of people who claim to be Skeptics are actually
nothing of the sort.   Organized skepticism attracts people who hate the
unknown, and who pull all sorts of twisted manuvers to "win" debates (as opposed
to dwelling down to find the truth.)

The fallacy of one-sidedness
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/inflogic/onesided.htm

The clinical additude
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/inflogic/clinical.htm

Proper skepticism
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/skept.htm#introduction

Sham reasoning
http://www.csicop.org/si/9711/preposterism.html

Zen & the art of debunkery
http://members.aol.com/ddrasin/zen.html

More:  http://amasci.com/weird/wclose.html#dishon

I have found older post many plases in thos newsgroup where some people want to
read this NEW continental drift
theory I have developed over a 20 year period. I would therefore invite you to
read it on my homepage:

http://aspevik.webs.com/

Regards,

Helge Aspevik

I warned those fools!

This is why I am based inside the hollow earth, guarded by mutant dinosaurs and
offshoot neanderthals.

  _____
TSOB




________________________________
From: bjbeaty <BILLB@...>
To: mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:26:03 PM
Subject: [mad_scientist] Global warming (The Onion)



Melting ice caps expose hundreds of
mad scientists' secret arctic bases
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/melting_ice_caps_expose_hundreds







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melting ice caps expose hundreds of
mad scientists' secret arctic bases
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/melting_ice_caps_expose_hundreds

In the Seattle, WA USA area. The seller is in Yelm, WA and is not on this list
so -don't- reply on the list if you are interested in buying. Use Neil's phone
number or email as listed below.

  Steve Greenfield, CET Consumer and Computer
Electronic Engineering Technician student



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: William Beaty <    >
To: w     om
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:21:18 PM
Subject: [WSCI]:Garage sale: Tesla Equipment (fwd)


See below.    Runs now till next Saturday, down near Olympia.

(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com                         http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:44:27 +0000
From: neil kaber <electricneil, hot mail>
To: bill     m
Subject: Tesla Equipment

--This is a PARTIAL LIST of what I'm selling.
-- 5 Tesla coils that are 36" x 2.25"
---4 Tesla Coils that are 23" x 1.75"
--1 large glass plate/ copper plate oil filled capacitor that is approximately
.04 mfd @ 30kv
--1 large, high voltage , double gang variable capacitor 15" long x 4.5" x 4.5"
with plates spaced about .25" apart
---1 0- 500 vdc variable, regulated power supply@300ma Lambda model 71, metered
--1 0-1000 vdc power supply @ 300ma
---1 Edwin Grey conversion tube
----1 portable scrambler that knocks out all FM, TV (vhf and uhf) stations
within 100'
--1 120 volt, 750 watt isolation transformer
--1 Vacuum tube Tesla coil- 5 tubes

   These items are available September 14 - 19 any day. Call or email:
      Neil K.  (360)894-6995     electricneil (hot mail)
I live in Yelm and can give you directions over the phone.
This equipment is from many years of experimenting.

The Steampunk Swapmeet is only a couple of weeks away.

Steve Greenfield

________________________________
From: Steve Greenfield alienrelics@...

 
There is also a Steampunk Swapmeet on Sept 26th in Seattle, WA from noon to 6pm.
Admission is free.

There was one on July 11th, I wish I'd known!

http://artvixn.livejournal.com/tag/steampunk

All Pilgrim’s Church (lower level)
500 Broadway E
Seattle, WA 98102

Then if you hang around town 'til 9pm, there is a Steampunk party!

Start Time: Saturday, September 26, 2009 at 9:00pm
End Time: Sunday, September 27, 2009 at 3:00am
Location: Vogue at Neighbor's Underground
Street: 1509 Broadway (Front Door)
City/Town: Seattle, WA
The bar is offering a discounted cover charge if you are in Steampunk attire.

Steve Greenfield

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: William Beaty <billb@eskimo. com>
To: weirdsci-announce@ eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:05:49 AM
Subject: [WSCI]:Seattle Steampunk Convention Oct 23-25

STEAM CON, October 23-25 2009
http://steam-con.com/

Seattle Airport Marriott Hotel
3201 South 176th Street
Seattle, Washington 98188 USA
Phone: 1-206-241-2000
Fax: 1-206-248-0789

Vandors Bazaar, Art Show, Theater, Fashion Show, Steamtech exhibitions,
Etiquette Lessons, Weapon mod demos, Cabaret acts

Featured:
Author: Tim Powers
Artist: Paul Guinan
Music: Abney Park

T-shirts etc: http://www.zazzle. com/steamcon

[Note: Dealers room is full]

Drat! I don't think I can make it, the IKV T'Mar's monthly meeting is at 3pm the
same day.

  Steve Greenfield, CET Consumer and Computer
Electronic Engineering Technician student



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: William Beaty <billb@...>
To: weirdsci-announce@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 5:54:59 PM
Subject: [WSCI]:Sat. 10am-2pm Georgetown Steamplant Museum


Open one day per month; guided tours of the Georgetown Power Plant

   "Steam Meet"
   Steam meets, free and open to the public, are held on the 2nd Saturday
   of each month, from 10am until 2pm. Steam meets include operating hot
   gas, gasoline, air, and steam engines, beverages, snacks, and guided
   plant tours including oral history and dynamic display of plant engines.

   Google maps: http://tinyurl.com/njxebk

Hard to find the actual entrance.  Drive west on S. Warsaw, and just after
you cross Ellis Ave, angle left along the warehouse parking lot (stay to
the left of that fence.)  This leads you to the steamplant driveway on the
right, staying left of the row of concrete barriers.

Photos/videos:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6210580512035483148#
http://flickr.com/photos/espressobuzz/sets/72157621451817510/
http://flickr.com/photos/vwguy/sets/72157606651279302/
http://flickr.com/photos/artvixn/sets/72157607292705402/

---

Until he became involved with all those purple radiation beams,
plants like this were N. Tesla's life.  Example, 1904 video of
Westinghouse manufacturing plant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP4aIUeQnt4

---

Also don't forget: steamPUNK

STEAM CON, October 23-25 2009
http://steam-con.com/

Seattle Airport Marriott Hotel
3201 South 176th Street
Seattle, Washington 98188 USA
Phone: 1-206-241-2000
Fax: 1-206-248-0789

Vendors Bazaar, Art Show, Theater, Fashion Show, Steamtech exhibitions,
Etiquette Lessons, Weapon mods demo, Cabaret acts


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com                         http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Buy 2 Conference DVDS before Sep 11… and get one FREE!!! …

      Or order the COMPLETE SET by Sep 11, and GET $100 OFF …

         This is in addition to the regular 10% member discount!



This is a great chance to stock up on the DVDs on your favorite speaker
from the 2009 ExtraOrdinary Technology Conference!

We had a special dedicated team of videographers and utilized a 5-camera
shoot in most cases. This allowed for much higher quality video than is
usually generated by a conference. Currently we are running a 24-hour
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Speakers included:

Joseph Farrell • Mark Hinds• Ranan Shahari • Robyn Benson
• Marko Rodin • Chris Eckman • Paul Pantone • Moray King

• Peter Grandics • Arthur Larson •  Gary Peterson • Jeff
Hayes • Warren Williams • John V. Milewski • George Freibott

Sterling Allan • Danae Harding • James Golik



(Details and abstracts are located at
http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/conftapes/teslatech/etcframe.htm
<http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/conftapes/teslatech/etcframe.htm>  )

If ordering online, make note in Special Comments about the Labor Day
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that the shipping rates on preliminary invoice are not correct. Correct
Shipping rates are posted on order page, and will be charged when order
is processed.



CALL 520-463-1994  TODAY!  This Internet Labor Day Special ends on
September 11!!!

Stuck for a Christmas gift idea? give the gift of knowledge!



NOT A MEMBER? Join today!

While membership is $30 annually (in the US)… we also offer a Deluxe
Membership  which includes all of the ExtraOrdinary Technology
backissues AND a one year membership!!!  Membership entitles you to 10%
discount on orders from our mail order outlet, and generous discounts on
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For a LIMITED TIME… We are offering Deluxe TeslaTech Membership
Special  for only $125 (US only) until Sep 11, 2009!



Order a Deluxe TeslaTech Membership today!

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Publisher/Editor - ExtraOrdinary Technology

520-463-1994 - http://www.teslatech.info <http://www.teslatech.info/>



Coming to the 2010 ExtraOrdinary Technology Conference

In Albuquerque New Mexico…  July 29-August 1???

2009 Conference DVDs are available here:

http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/conftapes/teslatech/etcframe.htm
<http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/conftapes/teslatech/etcframe.htm>





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Monthly Reminder, please read:

Please try to stay on topic.
    *Off topic: religion, sports, politics, numerology, UFOs, you get the
picture. Please do not forward discussions from other lists. Start a discussion
here or just give us a link to the other discussion. I know, you are
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link.
    *Examples of on topic subjects: ultrasonic beam speakers, gravity powered
water pumps, cold fusion, beer can wireless LAN antennas, HERF devices, coil and
rail guns, "free" power (not the cranky over-unity stuff), geiger counters, mad
scientist props, building your own (real) flying saucer, you get the picture.

Subject lines:
    Remember to change the subject line if you are straying from the original
thread. Please change the subject line if you are on digest, as "Digest 1044"
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    If you want an answer to a question, use a descriptive subject line. "Help
Me" is bad subject line. "How do I build electrorepulsive drives" is a good
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Trim messages- especially if you are receiving messages in digest form. By the
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Please do -not- post virus warnings. This has been hashed to death on this list
and others. If we want to hear about soccer, we'll sign up on a soccer list, if
we want to hear about virii we'll sign up on a virus list. The list is set to
block attachments so no one should be able to get a virus from posts on the
list. Scan any files you upload for viruses. If you upload a file with a virus,
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Spam- spammers will be treated with all the respect they deserve. See the list
main page for policy regarding "For Sale" items. OT sale ads, links, uploads,
etc. will be treated as spam and may result in your removal from the list and
banning from every other list I am listowner or moderator of.

Please remember that this is the Mad Scientist list. We're crazy, not stupid. 
With that in mind, here is an excerpt from The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus
Science from The Chronicle for Higher Education by Robert L. Park
http://chronicle.com
Section: The Chronicle Review
Volume 49, Issue 21, Page B20

1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media. The integrity of
science rests on the willingness of scientists to expose new ideas and findings
to the scrutiny of other scientists. Thus, scientists expect their colleagues to
reveal new findings to them initially. An attempt to bypass peer review by
taking a new result directly to the media, and thence to the public, suggests
that the work is unlikely to stand up to close examination by other scientists.
One notorious example is the claim made in 1989 by two chemists from the
University of Utah, B. Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, that they had
discovered cold fusion -- a way to produce nuclear fusion without expensive
equipment. Scientists did not learn of the claim until they read reports of a
news conference. Moreover, the announcement dealt largely with the economic
potential of the discovery and was devoid of the sort of details that might have
enabled other scientists to judge the strength of the claim or to repeat the
experiment. (Ian Wilmut's announcement that he had successfully cloned a sheep
was just as public as Pons and Fleischmann's claim, but in the case of cloning,
abundant scientific details allowed scientists to judge the work's validity.)
Some scientific claims avoid even the scrutiny of reporters by appearing in paid
commercial advertisements. A health-food company marketed a dietary supplement
called Vitamin O in full-page newspaper ads. Vitamin O turned out to be ordinary
saltwater.

2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his
or her work. The idea is that the establishment will presumably stop at nothing
to suppress discoveries that might shift the balance of wealth and power in
society. Often, the discoverer describes mainstream science as part of a larger
conspiracy that includes industry and government. Claims that the oil companies
are frustrating the invention of an automobile that runs on water, for instance,
are a sure sign that the idea of such a car is baloney. In the case of cold
fusion, Pons and Fleischmann blamed their cold reception on physicists who were
protecting their own research in hot fusion.

3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.
Alas, there is never a clear photograph of a flying saucer, or the Loch Ness
monster. All scientific measurements must contend with some level of background
noise or statistical fluctuation. But if the signal-to-noise ratio cannot be
improved, even in principle, the effect is probably not real and the work is not
science.

Thousands of published papers in para-psychology, for example, claim to report
verified instances of telepathy, psychokinesis, or precognition. But those
effects show up only in tortured analyses of statistics. The researchers can
find no way to boost the signal, which suggests that it isn't really there.

4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal. If modern science has learned anything
in the past century, it is to distrust anecdotal evidence. Because anecdotes
have a very strong emotional impact, they serve to keep superstitious beliefs
alive in an age of science. The most important discovery of modern medicine is
not vaccines or antibiotics, it is the randomized double-blind test, by means of
which we know what works and what doesn't. Contrary to the saying, "data" is not
the plural of "anecdote."

5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for
centuries. There is a persistent myth that hundreds or even thousands of years
ago, long before anyone knew that blood circulates throughout the body, or that
germs cause disease, our ancestors possessed miraculous remedies that modern
science cannot understand. Much of what is termed "alternative medicine" is part
of that myth.

Ancient folk wisdom, rediscovered or repackaged, is unlikely to match the output
of modern scientific laboratories.

6. The discoverer has worked in isolation. The image of a lone genius who
struggles in secrecy in an attic laboratory and ends up making a revolutionary
breakthrough is a staple of Hollywood's science-fiction films, but it is hard to
find examples in real life. Scientific breakthroughs nowadays are almost always
syntheses of the work of many scientists.

7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation. A
new law of nature, invoked to explain some extraordinary result, must not
conflict with what is already known. If we must change existing laws of nature
or propose new laws to account for an observation, it is almost certainly wrong.
I began this list of warning signs to help federal judges detect scientific
nonsense. But as I finished the list, I realized that in our increasingly
technological society, spotting voodoo science is a skill that every citizen
should develop.

Robert L. Park is a professor of physics at the University of Maryland at
College Park and the director of public information for the American Physical
Society. He is the author of Voodoo Science: The Road From Foolishness to Fraud
(Oxford University Press, 2002).

Full text of the article may be found at:
http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i21/21b02001.htm


Here is some stuff on debating, that might be of interest to both Amateur and
Master Baiters.<g>

Argumentum Ad Hominem is one of the logical fallacies of relevance:

http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm

...and therefore, is considered a debate-killer on many of the long-standing
Usenet newsgroups, and original CompuServe Forums (now in decline, since the
advent of the Web).

Godwin's Law is another famous debate-killer. Here is the entry in Eric
Raymond's compilation of early Internet trivia, the Jargon Files:

http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html

Here is Wingnut's Debate Dictionary:

http://stommel.tamu.edu/~baum/ethel/atrios-dictionary.html

...and lets not forget Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit:

http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/tps-seti/baloney.html

Bill Beatty said:
In fighting with irrational Scoffers on newsgroups, I developed a collection of
similar articles.    LOTS of people who claim to be Skeptics are actually
nothing of the sort.   Organized skepticism attracts people who hate the
unknown, and who pull all sorts of twisted manuvers to "win" debates (as opposed
to dwelling down to find the truth.)

The fallacy of one-sidedness
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/inflogic/onesided.htm

The clinical additude
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/inflogic/clinical.htm

Proper skepticism
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/skept.htm#introduction

Sham reasoning
http://www.csicop.org/si/9711/preposterism.html

Zen & the art of debunkery
http://members.aol.com/ddrasin/zen.html

More:  http://amasci.com/weird/wclose.html#dishon

I KNOW YOU MIGHT NOT POST THIS MR GREENFIELD BUT MAYBE JUST TAKE A LOOK ITS
PRETTY INTERESTING!

I HAVE FOUND THIS SECRET COMMUNICATION IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE TETHER TAPE
SHOWING WHAT LOOKS LIKE UFOS! I HAVE FOUND THIS BY ACCIDENT BUT I WANT PEOPLE TO
SEE THIS! ITS UNBELIEVEABLE WHAT THEY SAY

HERES THE LINK!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og_S_-oieEc

AGAIN HERES MY WIRELESS RESEARCH IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THAT YET!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3_L77-ZWqo

THANK YOU THIS IS SO IMPORTANT!

BOXA

--- In mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com, Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> Jeri Ellsworth definitely has the spark:
> http://www.fatmanandcircuitgirl.com/
>
> She is a self-taught electrical engineer and racecar designer, builder, and
driver (really!) who blackbox reverse-engineered the Commodore 64 and produced
the C64 DTV. With a few extra parts, you can boot it up into a full fledged C64
that can connect to C64 serial port peripherals such as floppy drives. And that
is just a toy (literally) next to her other accomplishments, such as the C-1
Configurable Computer.
>
> I just found out that she has made working transistors at home. Nice!
>
> I can hardly wait to find out how she does conductive glass without vacuum
sputtering:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTu4KhL7IOE

I think she's basically decomposing/oxidizing Stannous (Tin) Chloride to
deposit a layer of Tin Oxide on the glass.  That's not too uncommon.  For
example, LCD panels have a layer of conductive, transparent Indium Tin
Oxide deposited on (diffused into) the glass.  One wonders if the same
MOSFET effect could be accomplished with the panel from a broken LCD?

Plus, there's the work that Lilienfeld did in the 1920s and 1930s:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Edgar_Lilienfeld

If I'm not mistaken, Lilienfeld mostly worked with Cadmium Sulfide.  There
have been other people who have noted a MOSFET effect using CdS
photocells.

http://sparkbangbuzz.com/cds-fet/cds-fet.htm

Plus, given that there are a LOT of semiconducting materials out there,
one wonders if other materials couldn't be deposited on glass and used.
For example, it's possible to synthesize Lead Sulfide (Galena), a
semiconductor of ancient fame, by bubbling Hydrogen Sulfide gas through
Lead Acetate in solution (Don't breathe the Hydrogen Sulfide, nor drink the
Lead Acetate solution!).

> Click on the website links on her LinkedIn page for articles about some of the
things she's done.
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeriellsworth

She's definitely a talented young lady.

>  Steve Greenfield, CET Consumer and Computer
> Electronic Engineering Technician student

Dave

Jeri Ellsworth definitely has the spark:
http://www.fatmanandcircuitgirl.com/

She is a self-taught electrical engineer and racecar designer, builder, and
driver (really!) who blackbox reverse-engineered the Commodore 64 and produced
the C64 DTV. With a few extra parts, you can boot it up into a full fledged C64
that can connect to C64 serial port peripherals such as floppy drives. And that
is just a toy (literally) next to her other accomplishments, such as the C-1
Configurable Computer.

I just found out that she has made working transistors at home. Nice!

I can hardly wait to find out how she does conductive glass without vacuum
sputtering:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTu4KhL7IOE

Click on the website links on her LinkedIn page for articles about some of the
things she's done.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeriellsworth

  Steve Greenfield, CET Consumer and Computer
Electronic Engineering Technician student

The analysis is incomplete, but not wrong. It's also not his in the possessive
sense, it is his only relationally.

We can safely exclude all dates before the question was asked, of course.

The ouija board samples are deeply biased, and if you (reasonably) conclude that
the asker is the answerer, the askers may be biased to an answer in the
reasonably near future. Europe of WWII had no very long wars since Napoleon, and
the querent may be excused for assuming a length of less than a decade.

Further muddling this issue is the ragged ending of the war. Is "This War" the
war in Europe or the war overall? If VE day, the war was over May 8, 1945. If
the treaty signing, it ended July 5, 1945. If you wait until VJ day, August 14,
1945 to the Japanese but August 15 to the Allies.

To be really pedantic, in a legal sense the war in Europe did not end with most
of the allies until 1950; with the USSR until 1955. The war between the USSR and
Japan never ended up to the dissolution of the USSR. So there are lots of end
dates to pick as the end of WWII, to fill in your answers. It is a moderately
complex issue.

_____
TSOB




________________________________
From: GARY DARGAN <dargang@...>
To: mad_scientist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:19:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mad_scientist] Fwd:  St. Sensible, Ouija Boards, and Brooklyn Tech
(or why I wouldn't send my w


Your analysis is wrong. Even if there were only 200000 Ouja boards asked the
question there are not 200000 potential answers. All dates have equal
probability, including dates before the question was asked.

Even if we eliminate those dates there is an infinite number of possible dates.
If we confine the answers to years with only 4 digits, the probability of
choosing an August 14 1945 date for the wars end is extremely low. The
probability of getting 152 identical answers is vanishingly small.

Still the best you can say about the ouija board prediction is that it was pure
coincidence. Here is another coincidence which requires a certain amount of
approximation with the math.

Assume there were 200,000 oiuja boards and each one gave a different answer
starting with the day after the question was asked and advancing by a day each
time. If the last answer was the correct one then the war would not have ended
until 544 years and 6 months after the correct date.

This date is 14 February 2490 (Valentines Day). Of course there are 544
Valentines Days to choose from in this period.

Given that this poor old planet is still blighted by war maybe the 2490 date is
closer to the truth

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
To: mad_scientist@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:44 AM
Subject: [mad_scientist] Fwd: St. Sensible, Ouija Boards, and Brooklyn Tech (or
why I wouldn't send my w

--- In Math4u@yahoogroups. com, Michael Paul Goldenberg <mikegold@.. .> wrote:

"Early in 1942, my mother made friends with a new neighbor, who wasn't Irish.
She was named Olge Liebertoff and she was a Jew. . . . Olga was a big fan of the
ouija board, which she soon persuaded my mother to try. They both liked the
results so much that they sat, night after night, with the planchette moving
between them, while I listened to the radio. A nun at school had warned us that
ouija boards were tools of the devil, but when I told my mother that she said,
'Nuns don't know everything.'

I knew that disagreeing with anything the nuns said was the Sin of Pride, but
she was my mother, so I didn't dare tell her that. . . .

One night, while they were sitting at the boards, I had an inspiration. I was
lying on the floor, doing homework, and I suggested tentatively, 'Ask it when
the war will end.'

They asked, and the planchette moved. Olga spoke out the letters and numbers of
the answer as it emerged: AUGUST 14, 1945.

I was shocked again. The answer seemed incredible. Hypnotized by the
professional optimists on the newscasts, I had the impression the war would be
over much quicker than that. Nonetheless, I copied the answer inside the back
cover of my notebook.

AUGUST 14, 1945. There it stood in the notebook for over three years, as the war
dragged on and on. When the peace treaty was signed on August 14, 1945, I was
discombobulated. It seemed to me that either the ouija board really was a tool
of the devil, as the nuns claimed, or something happened that I just could not
understand.

I spent a lot of time wondering about that." [Robert Anton Wilson: COSMIC
TRIGGER II, pp. 115 -116]

"Brooklyn Tech certainly succeeded in getting me out of the Catholic
reality-tunnel. . . .

Brooklyn Tech taught me a lot. I learned that the Earth wasn't hollow, after
all, so there wasn't any Hell inside it. I encountered science teachers who
encouraged us to think, instead of discouraging that activity as the nuns had. I
even had one teacher, for calculus, who liked to drag philosophical problems
into his exposition of math, and especially delighted in ending a class with a
logical problem that none of us could figure out.

One day I went to this teacher, Mr. White, and told him the story of my mother
and Olga and the ouija board. I wanted him to explain it. Naturally, being the
man he was, he made ME explain it.

'How many ouija boards do you think there are in the world?' he asked me.

I said I couldn't guess, but it must be millions.

'Hundreds of thousands, at least,' he said. 'How many people do you suppose ever
asked their ouija board when the war would end?'

I decided that everybody with a ouija board eventually thought of asking that
question.

'Let's assume only half of them asked,' he said. 'That's still a lot of people.
By sheer chance, how many answers would they get?'

'Uh,' I calculated, 'if there's say four hundred thousand and half of them
asked, that would be two hundred thousand, and uh by sheer chance alone they'd
get two hundred thousand answers."

'But there haven't been that many days between the beginning and end of the
war,' Mr. White said. 'How many days have there been?'

I had to multiply 365 by 3 for the years 1942-1943-1944, which gave me 995, add
on 24 days for 1941 and 225 for 1945 and arrived at 1244.

'So,' Mr. White said, 'how many would get the right answer by sheer chance?'

I came up with 152.

'So,' Mr. White said, 'That gives us 152 families telling the same story as you,
and 199,848 who can only report that they got the wrong answer. Do you think the
second group talks A GREAT DEAL about asking a ouija board and getting the wrong
answer?'

'No,' I said.

'So where do we get our stories about people who got the right answer from ouija
boards?'

'From the people who got the right answer by sheer chance.'

'I knew you could figure it out,' he said." [Robert Anton Wilson: COSMIC TRIGGER
II, pp. 118-119]

--
************ ********* *****
Michael Paul Goldenberg
6655 Jackson Rd Lot #136
Ann Arbor, MI 48103
734 644-0975 (c)
734 786-8425 (h)
mikegold@...
Unashamedly an Ethical Humanist and Unapologetically a Liberal Ironist

************ ********* *****

--- End forwarded message ---

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