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Revisiting MAGNET "manifest topics" ('mt' parameter for long lists   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #27 of 379 |
Now that Kazaa has added "Kazaa Playlists" -- .kpl files, with a list of
other files inside -- it seems a good time to discuss and settle on an
official format (or formats) for MAGNET "manifest topics".

Recall that anywhere an 'xt' (exact topic) or 'kt' (keyword topic) can
appear, a 'mt' (manifest topic) may also appear.

This is assumed to be a URI (perhaps an HTTP URL, perhaps an URN) which
if resolved provides a *list* (or 'manifest') of other topics to be
considered for MAGNET processing options.

My preference would be for the official manifest format to:

- Be XML, to easily handle other people's mixed-in extensions
- Allow use of the same field names/abbrieviations ('xt', 'dn',
etc.) as the URI format, whenever possible
- Add other field names, as necessary
- Be capable of expressing multiple reasons why a list is necessary,
including:
-- these items are *substitutes* for each other
-- these items are part of an *ordered series* that should be kept together
-- these items are *related*

This could eventually become an open-ended format for expressing
collections/playlists/libraries, but it is important that initially,
it remains very simple. (Things like arbitrary metadata markup,
playback parameters, etc. could be handled by later mix-in extensions,
which is to say, optional new namespaces.)

Does anyone know of existing work that could be leveraged? It
strikes me that this need is a little like RSS, or the new XMLish
WinAmp b4s playlist format.

A naive first, incomplete attempt to simply copy the MAGNET-URI
conventions over to XML might look like:


<manifest>
<dn>A bunch of songs I like</dn>
<item>
<xt>urn:sha1:BLAHBLAH</xt>
<dn>The Blah Song</dn>
</item>
<item>
<xt>urn:sha1:HALBHALB</xt>
<dn>Hot In Therre</dn>
</item>
</manifest>

The rules for nesting could become very confusing (or powerful!)
very quickly, so they need to be handled carefully.

For comparison, the Kazaa KPL format is like a Windows INI file. \
Here's an example I just made:


[Metadata]
artist=Too Much Joy
album=Live at Least (Outtakes)
category=
language=All
year=
keywords=
description=Tracks from http://www.sayhername.com/tmj_live.php
[Entries]
entry1=Too_Much_Joy_-_Live_at_Least_-_Outtakes_-_Susquehanna_Hat_Company.mp3\382\
fa430dab2be8b5f019a40e075911598c4749b\Susquehanna
Hat Company\Too Much Joy\Live at Least - Outtakes\0:03:02
entry2=Too_Much_Joy_-_Live_at_Least_-_Outtakes_-_Seasons_in_the_Sun.mp3\ab8594bc\
f41dc01ba5f5ec7837a324424ae3d06f\Seasons in the
Sun\Too Much Joy\Live at Least - Outtakes\Unknown
entry3=Too_Much_Joy_-_Live_at_Least_-_Outtakes_-_What_It_Is.mp3\006526823c536f25\
6766c994ce1b633db132e16c\What It Is\Too Much
Joy\Live at Least - Outtakes\0:04:28
entry4=Too_Much_Joy_-_Live_at_Least_-_Outtakes_-_Secret_Handshake.mp3\6832cef43d\
f690f877a4483092e171f5ccfac3e7\Secret Handshake\Too
Much Joy\Live at Least - Outtakes\Unknown


- Gojomo
____________________
Gordon Mohr <gojomo@ . . . At Bitzi, people cooperate to identify, rate,
bitzi.com> Bitzi CTO . . . describe and discover files of every kind.
_ http://bitzi.com _ . . . Bitzi knows bits -- because you teach it!





Tue Oct 1, 2002 6:28 pm

gojomo
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Forward
Message #27 of 379 |
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Now that Kazaa has added "Kazaa Playlists" -- .kpl files, with a list of other files inside -- it seems a good time to discuss and settle on an official format...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Oct 1, 2002
6:28 pm

... SMIL is a good reference point, though not a full solution. EG, the switch statement would allow specifying substitutes, other statements say "ordered...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Oct 1, 2002
8:51 pm

Agreed. I think SMIL and RSS should contain most everything you need. But then again, I always prefer to slightly tweak existing standards rather than...
Justin Chapweske
justin@...
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Oct 1, 2002
8:57 pm

... Can you talk more about why this kind of thing should be a magnet feature, Gordon? EG, usecases? From what I understand so far, it seems to me that a...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Oct 1, 2002
9:29 pm

... MAGNET is a way to specify a "topic" for further action by local applications, without necessarily specifying the exact further action -- it depends on the...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Oct 1, 2002
10:08 pm

I ran across this thread in the Yahoogroups archives. I've done a lot of work with playlists in the past year and wanted to add things I've learned since...
lucas_gonze
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Nov 15, 2003
6:48 pm

... With the benefit of more investigation, what do you think of the "magnet manifest" proposal in message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/magnet-uri/message/54...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Nov 15, 2003
11:56 pm

Question: do you want it to be like tar, or like a playlist?...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 16, 2003
9:44 pm

Neither. Both. What do you think is needed? I'd like a format that's easy to create (by hand or code), easy to read (by eye or code), and that is equally...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Nov 17, 2003
4:31 am

... Both, but I only care about playlists. :) I have a lot of stuff to say about a better playlist format, too much to just blast it out in one message to the...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 17, 2003
4:00 pm

Desiderata and loose comments on a new playlist format: * The MAGMA format improvements are good things -- the magic number in the header and the line...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 17, 2003
4:33 pm

Request for comments: http://gonze.com/playlists/playlist-format-survey.html I'm posting that link here because of recent conversation about the MAGMA format. ...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 18, 2003
2:18 pm

Hey Lucas, Great resource. One question for Gordon, why introduce MAGMA when it appears to be the same as .m3u? Thanks, -Justin ... -- Justin Chapweske, Onion...
Justin Chapweske
justin@...
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Nov 18, 2003
4:26 pm

... - It seems that there's no official documentation of m3u -- only reverse-engineering. - It's very MP3/playlist-centric, with no nod to other file-manifest ...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Nov 19, 2003
8:29 am

Nice work on the summary. I think a "next-gen" playlist format should be implemented in yaml <www.yaml.org> and allow for future extensibility (not just a one...
Timmy Keen
orbvsterrarvm
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Jan 6, 2004
8:52 am

Why not simply take the abilities of magnets, and center MAGMA around magnets? I could imagine adding another descriptor to magnets, which would contain the...
Arne Babenhauserheide
arne_bab
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Jan 6, 2004
12:14 pm

... Thanks, Tim. ... YAML is an interesting idea, since it would allow for higher dimensionality without the complexity of XML. I'd be interested to see a...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Jan 6, 2004
4:56 pm

Hi Gordon You may be interested to hear that Kazaa is moving towards something quite similar to your XML manifest thinking with our KAPSULE format released in...
phil_morle
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Nov 19, 2003
5:54 am

... This is an interesting schema, Phil. I could comment on the details and make suggestions here and there, but since it's proprietary I don't think there's...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 19, 2003
2:48 pm

I believe that Kazaa is going to make this an open standard. Thanks -greg ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with...
Greg Bildson
gbildson
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Nov 19, 2003
4:38 pm

Hm. It seems to me that there's critical mass of people who might find some kind of use for a manifest format here on magnet-uri, and I don't know a better...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 19, 2003
6:55 pm

*shrug* We use RDF in our applications along with many different flavors of RSS. We don't go balls-out and support all of the crazy RDF inferences, we just...
Justin Chapweske
justin@...
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Nov 19, 2003
7:18 pm

Hi Lucas ... Kazaa ... Most certainly. We may well be making our Kapsule format an open standard as playlist/collection formats can only benefit from being ...
phil_morle
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Nov 19, 2003
7:58 pm

... Kapsule is a powerful format in comparison to, e.g., B4S or ASX. The distinguishing feature is the thumbnail tag, which no other playlist format but SMIL...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 19, 2003
10:05 pm

N.B.: Kazaa here is moving from KPL, which is a two-dimensional format based on INI, to XML, which allows an arbitrary number of dimensions. Once again an...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 19, 2003
2:51 pm

Hi, Phil. Very interested to hear of the kapsule format -- I think XML is definitely the way to go once you get past a handful of flat fields. I also notice...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Nov 20, 2003
5:49 am

A scratch playlist format based on RSS 1.0 is here: http://gonze.com/playlists/rss-smil.rdf An explanation of it is here: http://gonze.com/rss_plus_time.html ...
lucas_gonze
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Dec 3, 2003
10:02 pm

Hi, On my Wiki I created a Page for Magnet-Lists. If you know of pages with magnets please add them. I'll try to sort them by topics, as soon as the list grows...
Arne Bab.
arne_bab
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Dec 24, 2003
4:30 pm

Here's a direct URL to the list of lists: http://magnetlists.gnufu.net/ -- Arne Bab. http://draketo.de...
Arne Bab.
arne_bab
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Dec 24, 2003
5:26 pm
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