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Revisiting MAGNET "manifest topics" ('mt' parameter for long lists   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #31 of 379 |
Re: [magnet-uri] Revisiting MAGNET "manifest topics" ('mt' parameter for long lists of topics)

Lucas Gonze writes:
> > Now that Kazaa has added "Kazaa Playlists" -- .kpl files, with a list of
> > other files inside -- it seems a good time to discuss and settle on an
> > official format (or formats) for MAGNET "manifest topics".
>
> Can you talk more about why this kind of thing should be a magnet feature,
> Gordon? EG, usecases?
>
> From what I understand so far, it seems to me that a Magnet-aware SMIL
> renderer might be more parsimonious than a SMIL-aware Magnet renderer.

MAGNET is a way to specify a "topic" for further action
by local applications, without necessarily specifying the
exact further action -- it depends on the user's choice
and what options are installed.

It's nice to be able to specify topics which are a single
entity, for example one multimedia file, but it is often
the case that files are parts of a whole, or a series,
or a collection, or alternatives.

So, considering one popular use of MAGNET links, specifying
resources to begin location-indifferent downloading, it would
make a lot of users happy to have one click offer them the
option of beginning a download of many related files, rather
than having to click a handful (or dozens or hundreds) of
separate links.

The reference to SMIL is helpful; SMIL certainly overlaps
with the "playlist" use-case of a MAGNET manifest, and if they
have established names and elements for collection-types,
it'd be very valuable to copy or learn from their choices.

But beyond "play"-lists, MAGNET topic-lists might be used as:

- shopping-lists (a local app might guide you to sites to
purchase the named resources)
- research-lists (a local app or website might tell you
more about each resource named, or the group as a set)
- white-lists (a local app might add the named resources,
at user choice, to an 'approved' content list)
- black-lists (a local app might add the named resources,
at user choice, to a 'prohibited'/'warning' content list)
- fetch-lists (a local app might try to find providers of
each named resource, in turn or in parallel)

etc. etc.

So in some ways SMIL is overkill and in others it would need
extension (or openness to extension) for these other potential
uses.

Most immediately, I would think a MAGNET manifest resource
should be able to do the same things as the proposed "subscripting"
method, of specifying more than one topic inside one "magnet:"
URI, except without the practical limits on URI-size (~1024 chars?)
imposed by some URI-handling software.

That is, you probably couldn't fit 50 topics into one "magnet:" link,
but you could easily specify them in a manifest file, and refer to
the file, by URN or URL, in a "magnet:" link.

- Gojomo
____________________
Gordon Mohr <gojomo@ . . . At Bitzi, people cooperate to identify, rate,
bitzi.com> Bitzi CTO . . . describe and discover files of every kind.
_ http://bitzi.com _ . . . Bitzi knows bits -- because you teach it!






Tue Oct 1, 2002 10:08 pm

gojomo
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Forward
Message #31 of 379 |
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... Can you talk more about why this kind of thing should be a magnet feature, Gordon? EG, usecases? From what I understand so far, it seems to me that a...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Oct 1, 2002
9:29 pm

... MAGNET is a way to specify a "topic" for further action by local applications, without necessarily specifying the exact further action -- it depends on the...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Oct 1, 2002
10:08 pm

I ran across this thread in the Yahoogroups archives. I've done a lot of work with playlists in the past year and wanted to add things I've learned since...
lucas_gonze
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Nov 15, 2003
6:48 pm

... With the benefit of more investigation, what do you think of the "magnet manifest" proposal in message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/magnet-uri/message/54...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Nov 15, 2003
11:56 pm

Question: do you want it to be like tar, or like a playlist?...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 16, 2003
9:44 pm

Neither. Both. What do you think is needed? I'd like a format that's easy to create (by hand or code), easy to read (by eye or code), and that is equally...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Nov 17, 2003
4:31 am

... Both, but I only care about playlists. :) I have a lot of stuff to say about a better playlist format, too much to just blast it out in one message to the...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 17, 2003
4:00 pm

Desiderata and loose comments on a new playlist format: * The MAGMA format improvements are good things -- the magic number in the header and the line...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 17, 2003
4:33 pm

Request for comments: http://gonze.com/playlists/playlist-format-survey.html I'm posting that link here because of recent conversation about the MAGMA format. ...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 18, 2003
2:18 pm

Hey Lucas, Great resource. One question for Gordon, why introduce MAGMA when it appears to be the same as .m3u? Thanks, -Justin ... -- Justin Chapweske, Onion...
Justin Chapweske
justin@...
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Nov 18, 2003
4:26 pm

... - It seems that there's no official documentation of m3u -- only reverse-engineering. - It's very MP3/playlist-centric, with no nod to other file-manifest ...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Nov 19, 2003
8:29 am

Nice work on the summary. I think a "next-gen" playlist format should be implemented in yaml <www.yaml.org> and allow for future extensibility (not just a one...
Timmy Keen
orbvsterrarvm
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Jan 6, 2004
8:52 am

Why not simply take the abilities of magnets, and center MAGMA around magnets? I could imagine adding another descriptor to magnets, which would contain the...
Arne Babenhauserheide
arne_bab
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Jan 6, 2004
12:14 pm

... Thanks, Tim. ... YAML is an interesting idea, since it would allow for higher dimensionality without the complexity of XML. I'd be interested to see a...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Jan 6, 2004
4:56 pm

Hi Gordon You may be interested to hear that Kazaa is moving towards something quite similar to your XML manifest thinking with our KAPSULE format released in...
phil_morle
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Nov 19, 2003
5:54 am

... This is an interesting schema, Phil. I could comment on the details and make suggestions here and there, but since it's proprietary I don't think there's...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 19, 2003
2:48 pm

I believe that Kazaa is going to make this an open standard. Thanks -greg ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with...
Greg Bildson
gbildson
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Nov 19, 2003
4:38 pm

Hm. It seems to me that there's critical mass of people who might find some kind of use for a manifest format here on magnet-uri, and I don't know a better...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 19, 2003
6:55 pm

*shrug* We use RDF in our applications along with many different flavors of RSS. We don't go balls-out and support all of the crazy RDF inferences, we just...
Justin Chapweske
justin@...
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Nov 19, 2003
7:18 pm

Hi Lucas ... Kazaa ... Most certainly. We may well be making our Kapsule format an open standard as playlist/collection formats can only benefit from being ...
phil_morle
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Nov 19, 2003
7:58 pm

... Kapsule is a powerful format in comparison to, e.g., B4S or ASX. The distinguishing feature is the thumbnail tag, which no other playlist format but SMIL...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 19, 2003
10:05 pm

N.B.: Kazaa here is moving from KPL, which is a two-dimensional format based on INI, to XML, which allows an arbitrary number of dimensions. Once again an...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Nov 19, 2003
2:51 pm

Hi, Phil. Very interested to hear of the kapsule format -- I think XML is definitely the way to go once you get past a handful of flat fields. I also notice...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Nov 20, 2003
5:49 am

A scratch playlist format based on RSS 1.0 is here: http://gonze.com/playlists/rss-smil.rdf An explanation of it is here: http://gonze.com/rss_plus_time.html ...
lucas_gonze
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Dec 3, 2003
10:02 pm

Hi, On my Wiki I created a Page for Magnet-Lists. If you know of pages with magnets please add them. I'll try to sort them by topics, as soon as the list grows...
Arne Bab.
arne_bab
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Dec 24, 2003
4:30 pm

Here's a direct URL to the list of lists: http://magnetlists.gnufu.net/ -- Arne Bab. http://draketo.de...
Arne Bab.
arne_bab
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Dec 24, 2003
5:26 pm

http://www.MagnetMix.com ... http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/W4wwlB/TM ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos -...
Greg Bildson
gbildson
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Dec 24, 2003
5:33 pm

... To be fair to Kazaa, their new 'kzhash' values *might* be secure. We just don't know yet. Their old content-IDs, often called 'uuhash' or 'sig2dat' values,...
Gordon Mohr
gojomo
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Dec 24, 2003
8:18 pm

... <snip> ... That's good to know. I updated the information concerning the kzhash on http://gnufu.net , a simple gnutella documentation-wiki for Users, I ...
Arne Bab.
arne_bab
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Dec 24, 2003
10:39 pm

Arne I can confirm that 'kzhash' is secure. I am hoping to publish some details on the structure of a kzhash soon. Cheers Phil Morle Sharman Networks ... ...
phil_morle
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Dec 27, 2003
5:58 am
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