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Illegal Prime   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #10694 of 13927 |
Re: Illegal Prime

Yes, it is unfortunate but you can't believe everything that is put
out in the media. With patents though, you can always get the full
text and images at the PTO web site:
http://www.uspto.gov/patft/help/status.htm Once there you can
click "Pat Num" to search for patent 5373560 or do a keyword search.
The claims might be broader as you say, but clearly not as broad as a
patent to the numbers per se or even as a patent to any application
of the primes in finite math. I think that from the context, the math
operation involve in the process is clearly a lot more specific. I
thank you for indicating that you will be more careful next time
before indicating that prime numbers have been patented per se.
--- In mathforfun@yahoogroups.com, adh_math <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> --- In mathforfun@yahoogroups.com, "ramsey2879" <ramseykk2@a...>
> wrote:
> > > [adh] At least equally worrisome is the US Patent Office's
> > > [adh] willingness to patent primes. From
> > > [adh] http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeNumber.html
> > >
> > > [adh] "...R. Schlafly (1994) has obtained U.S. Patent 5373560
> > > [adh] on the following two primes..."
> > >
> > Numbers can not be patented per se. Patent 5,373,560 mentioned
> > in the Mathworld site only patents the use of certain prime
> > numbers for a specific crytographic process. The prime numbers
> > themselves are and remain in public domain. There is no such
> > thing as patenting a number, unless it is a computer program.
> > As much as I agree that the patent office is not equipt to deal
> > with applications to patents for software inventions, people
> > should not spread misinformation about what is being patented.
> >
>
> Two comments:
>
> 1. From the patent text that you (ramsey2879) linked, it seems (to
my
> non-lawyerly understanding:) that Schlafly's patent mentions only
the
> use of specific integers in a specific arithmetic (but perhaps not
> specifically cryptographic?) context. That is, the patent seems (as
> you say) not to cover integers, but only their use in finite field
> arithmetic.
>
> On the other hand:
>
> 2. An article by Simson Garfinkel (citation comments below) begins,
> "Roger Schlafly has just succeeded in doing something no other
> mathematician has ever done: he has patented a number." Garfinkel
also
> quotes Schlafly as saying:
>
> "I'm sure if you just went to someone and said, 'Can you
> patent a prime number?' they would say, 'No, that's
> ridiculous'"...
>
> (which was, in fact, Cino's response! :) and:
>
> "I was kind of interested in pushing the system to see how
> far you could go with allowable claims," explains Schlafly,
> a member of the League for Programming Freedom, an organization
> that opposes software patents. Although Schlafly can now sue
> anybody for using his numbers, he is not worried about people
> infringing on his rights. "When you get to numbers that are so
> big that nobody has used them before, well, there are lots of
> them up there," he says.
>
> These passages suggest that both Garfinkel and Schlafly regard
> Schlafly's patent as a patent on two integers, at least in the
> colloquial sense used in this group. All the same, I'll be more
> careful in the future about claiming that "integers have been
> patented".
>
> The copy of Garfinkel's article that I quoted is here:
>
> http://www.langston.com/Fun_People/1995/1995AYU.html
>
> It seems (a version of) the article appeared in Scientific American
> (July 1995), though I don't have access to the article to check for
> changes of wording.
>
> Regards,
> adh





Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

ramsey2879
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Message #10694 of 13927 |
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Interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Former_featured_articles#Mathematics An illegal prime is a prime number which contains information...
Erman Akdogan
akdoganerman
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Jul 24, 2005
3:06 am

... Why does it have to be a prime? Why not a number? Suppose on does this encryption to pick a winning combination in the lottery. Would they have to forfiet...
cino hilliard
hillcino368
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Jul 24, 2005
7:48 am

I think they can publish the number widely if it is a sufficiently large prime as a number of interest. That makes it possible to distribute the code without...
Erman Akdogan
akdoganerman
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Jul 24, 2005
4:15 pm

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Former_feat ured_articles#Mathematics ... Prosecution under the DMCA for prime possession seems unlikely to be ...
adh_math
Offline
Jul 24, 2005
3:39 pm

... This is rediculous. Again, Why prime? I want to get a patent on 007. It boils down to the patent office being a business - to make money. You pay, we...
cino hilliard
hillcino368
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Jul 24, 2005
7:28 pm

a patent can't be based on a derivative work. if a number is not a prime, then it is based on 2 or more primes. If one of those primes is patented, then you...
Daniel MacIntyre
macintyred
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Jul 25, 2005
10:56 am

... Thanks for the further clarification. All these years I thought numbers were free. CLH...
cino hilliard
hillcino368
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Jul 25, 2005
5:30 pm

... primes ... violating ... be ... Here is the link to the patent that Mathworld says patents prime numbers. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser? ...
ramsey2879
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Jul 26, 2005
1:38 pm

I can see various similar angles, congruent triangles, parallel lines, etc in the problem below, but not the "hidden" congruency that can solve it. Any hints? ...
cray
yowieray
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Jul 27, 2005
3:02 am

"cray wrote:" ... I'm not sure this was necessary, but I extended a line parallel to AD and EF from C, to meet the extension of BA. Then my congruent ...
robynk@...
robynkoz
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Jul 27, 2005
3:55 am

Hi Robyn I already tried what you did before posting the question, but still couldn't see how the congruencies fell into place to work out BC. If you have the...
cray
yowieray
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Jul 27, 2005
5:21 am

Well, like with most problems, it's a lot easier once you see the solution. By instinct, I got stuck into looking for direct correlations between the triangles...
cray
yowieray
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Jul 27, 2005
11:32 am

... Triangle CDA is similar to triangle EFC. CF = DF + CD. DF = 7. I'll let you sort out the rest. John...
cooperpuzzles
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Jul 27, 2005
11:33 am

Numbers can not be patented per se. Patent 5,373,560 mentioned in the Mathworld site only patents the use of certain prime numbers for a specific crytographic...
ramsey2879
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Jul 28, 2005
12:44 pm

... Two comments: 1. From the patent text that you (ramsey2879) linked, it seems (to my non-lawyerly understanding:) that Schlafly's patent mentions only the ...
adh_math
Offline
Jul 29, 2005
12:43 pm

Yes, it is unfortunate but you can't believe everything that is put out in the media. With patents though, you can always get the full text and images at the...
ramsey2879
Offline Send Email
Jul 31, 2005
11:05 pm

... Good-natured reply: This isn't just "the media", but a claim made by a technology expert (Garfinkel) quoting the patent holder (Schlafly). On his own blog,...
adh_math
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Aug 5, 2005
1:42 pm

I agree this is completely idiotic. Suppose someone were to have a patent on ANY number. Now suppose I have a patent on the exact value of pi and I say, "No...
bqllpd
Offline
Jul 25, 2005
11:11 pm

... <hillcino368@h...> ... [adh> At least equally worrisome is the US Patent Office's [adh> willingness to patent primes. From [adh>...
adh_math
Offline
Jul 26, 2005
2:37 am
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