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How to build math model for that?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #13732 of 13927 |
Re: How to build math model for that?

A rolling disk on a straight line surface.



<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/rollingfriction.jpg>
The diagram has shown a rolling disk on straight line surface. This
movement has rolling and static frictions. This disk contains n sectors
with mass m. The (centre mass) CM disk has an initial translation
velocity V. The red sector has linear velocity zero. Base on previous
explanations, only n-1 sector on the rolling disk has velocity more then
zero. These moving sectors transfer linear momentum dP to the surface
with mass M+m per time frame dt. If use classical model: The disk with
linear velocity V transfer momentum to the surface. The total velocity
on the end of action is:
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d1.jpg>
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d1.jpg> (equation 1)
If discount the red sector with zero linear velocity: The total velocity
on the end of action is:
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d2.jpg>
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d2.jpg> (equation 2)
The velocity difference between these two models is:
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d3.jpg>
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d3.jpg> (equation 3)
If sectors geometrical size strives to zero, then sectors mass strive to
zero also. For these velocity difference equation, it gives a zero
result.
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d4.jpg>
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d4.jpg> (equation 4)
However, the physical elements have its own geometrical size and end up
velocity may be count by (equation 2)
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d2.jpg>
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d2.jpg> Velocity
difference between classical and this modern models is:
(equastion 3)
<http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/d3.jpg>
--- In mathforfun@yahoogroups.com, "abelov0927" <abelov0927@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for this explanation. It's good.
> I'm trying to find out the platform finish line velocity. I'm sure
it'll close to zero, but the platform may not stop. Why? Because even if
follow law of momentum conservation, the bodies on phases 1 and 3 have
different mass.
> Thanks anyway. I'll continue work with this problem and I'll put more
details on knoll site.
>
> --- In mathforfun@yahoogroups.com, "video_ranger" video_ranger@ wrote:
> >
> > --- In mathforfun@yahoogroups.com, "abelov0927" <abelov0927@> wrote:
> > >
> > > By 'model', I just want to describe behavior of this system. All
laws of classical mechanic should be preserved.
> > > Initial platform velocity is zero V0=0. Will platform return to
this initial velocity after all? This is what I'm looking for.
> > > Is it physically possible calculating this on math modeling?
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > >
> > >
> >
> > If the platform is completely free to move (say floating in outer
space) momentum conservation requires that it will end up with a
positive forward velocity V=((M+nm)/nm)v. Kinetic energy is not
conserved because as each link slaps down on the surface some energy is
converted to heat.
> >
> > For a full ring rolling at constant velocity there's no horizontal
force between the bottom of the ring and the surface but that requires
the ring to be balanced (rotationally symmetric). As links become
missing from the circle that's no longer true so the succeeding links
that hit the surface do have a forward pull on them accelerating the
platform forward.
> >
> > But offhand I'm not sure how to calculate the detailed dynamics that
describe how the platform goes from 0 velocity to its final velocity
(the system has n degrees of freedom so it's more complicated than a
simple rolling ring with 1 degree of freedom).
> >
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:36 am

abelov0927
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Message #13732 of 13927 |
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link to original site http://knol.google.com/k/alex-belov/paradox-of-classical-mechanics-2/1xmqm1l0s4ys/9# or mirror ...
abelov0927
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Jun 29, 2009
6:23 pm

... Yes. ... Beginning here I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you assuming the broken ring continues to roll without slipping? Are any more links going to...
video_ranger
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Jun 30, 2009
2:05 pm

I'll repost message in new way. The idea is very simple. If spit a rolling ring to small parts set of n elements (1,2,3,...,n) with mass m then each of them...
abelov0927
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Jun 30, 2009
2:23 pm

OK I didn't realize the ring was a flexible chain. That makes it more complex than a rigid ring. Yes if the surface has initial velocity V=0 but can move...
video_ranger
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Jun 30, 2009
3:47 pm

By 'model', I just want to describe behavior of this system. All laws of classical mechanic should be preserved. Initial platform velocity is zero V0=0. Will...
abelov0927
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Jun 30, 2009
3:56 pm

... If the platform is completely free to move (say floating in outer space) momentum conservation requires that it will end up with a positive forward...
video_ranger
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Jun 30, 2009
5:34 pm

Correction: I meant positive forward velocity V=(nm/(M+nm))v....
video_ranger
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Jun 30, 2009
5:39 pm

Thank you for this explanation. It's good. I'm trying to find out the platform finish line velocity. I'm sure it'll close to zero, but the platform may not...
abelov0927
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Jun 30, 2009
9:40 pm

A rolling disk on a straight line surface. <http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1xmqm1l0s4ys/h6o9ht/rollingfriction.jpg> The diagram has shown a rolling disk on...
abelov0927
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Jul 10, 2009
2:36 am

For this model, à repulsion and à collision comes on different planes. The vertical plane doesn't have any contacts with the rolling body. Otherwise the...
abelov0927
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Jul 11, 2009
6:07 pm

Quote from forum. "Follow by law of momentum conservation V0x(mx(n-1))=V1x(all mass) If discount one element from the ring then and average speed for (n-1) ...
abelov0927
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Jul 14, 2009
10:05 pm

A few philosophy thinks. Collisions may be classified in two groups. Explicit and implicit. 1. Explicit collisions – happens between objects which conducts...
abelov0927
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Jul 16, 2009
6:30 pm

Let imagine observer and two objects (A and B). One object A with simple movement can move only into one plane. The observer in own frame of reference sees...
abelov0927
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Jul 17, 2009
5:08 am
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