• Introduction to Maria        http://www.dadamac.net/network/maria-agnese-giraudo    
• Following the sad news of the untimely death of Maria Agnese Giraudo         http://dadamac.posterous.com/following-the-sad-news-of-the-untimely-death
• Maria's memorial        http://www.dadamac.net/initiatives/cross-cultural-collaboration/maria-agnese-giraudo-memorial

Dear All,

Greatest thanks for this very helpful way of moving forward, and my apologies to be offline for some time. I have heard from Ken about the memorial on March 26th, and was wondering how I as an individual could contribute.

Pam, immense appreciation for sharing your story of your friend, Max Clowes, and for sharing how you and others are still working in his memory and spirit. I believe there is much we can do in this regard in terms of Maria Agnese. I, like you, was just starting to explore ways that Maria Agnese and I could collaborate: our last emails, at the end of 2010, declared our mutual love and respect, and our hope that we could build upon that personal foundation to develop a working relationship that would encompass all of our friends, and so much more. I hope to move forward on that basis with friends--new and old--and welcome all ideas in that regard.

I suggest that we link all friends in our various groups--Pam has suggested Dadamac for that, I think--and bring in Tobias Eigen of Kabissa. And perhaps consider working on a grant that would focus on some of Maria Agnese's passions:  art, agriculture, sustainable development, Africa.

Pam, could you share your ideas about the "collaborators connect" project?

For Caterina, Noemi, and others planning her memorial in Italy, I think the idea of reading text messages is wonderful, and let's all send one! Where should we do that? I think we should post those tributes, if we feel we can, on our forums here (plz cc LFEO, Mendenyo, Holistic Helping, and Nafsi Afrika forums). 

On a phone call, is that possible?  It would be very uplifting, if so!

I hope small groups will get together in all of the places where people feel connected to Maria Agnese, including Tanzania, Kenya, and Italy. Those of us who are "solo" can post and email text tributes, and possibly join a call. And then, thereafter, develop a "project" focus, in addition to keeping her supportive and caring spirit alive in whatever we do.

With deepest sympathy to all of Maria Agnese's friends and "family," however defined, and in loving memory always!  Janet (Feldman, kaippg@...)

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela McLean
Sent: Mar 16, 2011 5:18 PM
To: dadamaclearnersgroup@..., learningfromeachother , William Wambura , Catherine Leclercq
Subject: [learningfromeachother] In loving memory - and moving forward together



Dear Caterina and Noemi, William, and other friends of Maria.

Thank you Caterine for the sensitive suggestions in your email, copied below, on how people can connect at a distance with the memorial to Maria.

I appreciate your suggestions which remind me of what a group of us did thirty years ago, on the day of the funeral of a dear friend, Max Clowes who also died suddenly.

• A Tribute to Max Clowes by Aaron Sloman - http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/sloman-clowestribute.html

Max had given up his professorship in Sussex and moved to the far South West of England to join a project on computing in schools, based in Plymouth. For most of us - his friends and colleagues living in Devon and Cornwall - it was not realistic to plan to travel to his funeral, which was "up country".

Instead of going to the funeral, we met together at the college where he had been working. We all knew Max, but we did not all know each other. We shared our stories of the work we were doing with him (formally and informally), the impact he had on us, and how he would continue to have an influence on us in the future - how much we valued him in so many ways. Even now, thirty year later, I find tears in my eyes as I remember our loss. I also remember, on that day of memorial, slipping away from the group at the exact time of his funeral service, so that I could slowly and quietly read the set words and prayers of the funeral service and feel connected with the real one that was taking place so far away from me.

Our event in Plymouth was small, and it was different to attending the event where everyone else had gathered, but it felt right - not better, not worse - just different and a completely fitting and appropriate way to celebrate Max's life and to mourn his loss.

William (and others who would like to attend Maria's memorial but live too far away) I hope that by sharing this story I will bring some comfort to you, and help you to respond positively to the suggestions that Cateraine has made regarding how you might be at Maria's memorial "in spirit".

Also be encouraged about the continuation of Maria's work in one way or another. Even thirty years after Max's death I am still working under his influence, ten years after Peter Oyawale's death I am still working under his influence. If Maria has infludenced you strongly you will find some ways to collect up the fragments of her work and vision and go forward. Maria and I had not started working seriously together, we had just expressed an intention to do so. We were going to work more closely together as part of a collaboration I was planning called "collaborators connect" - which would involve people who like Maria, and me (and Tobias of Kabissa and others) - people who have some kind of connection between Europe and Africa, which also involves some kind of online connection.

I believe that by coming together online with people who knew Maria better that I did, I will discover more about her work and what she was trying to do and how she saw "collaborators connect" fitting in with her wider vision and work. I also hope that people who know her well will share their stories and continue to support each other in moving forward with the vision. 

Let's agree that we will not all separate out once the memorial event is over, but we will continue to gather together online to support each other in doing, even in a small way, what we we think we might have done with Maria.

Pamela

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Caterine Leclercq  Date: 16 March 2011 15:26
Subject: connection on 26th of March between friends of maria Agnese in Rome, Nairobi, Dar es salam and other places

Dear William, dear Ramathan, dear Ken, dear Sam, dear Pamela

 

As you know we are organizing an event for Maria Agnese on the 26^th of March in Rome. There will be a mass at 4.30 pm (6.30 in Tanzania/Kenya) at San Igino papa  and then till late in the evening people will be together to honour her memory with songs, music, texts, acrobacy,…

 

Many people in Tanzania, in Kenya, in other countries and  in other Italian cities would have liked to be with us but can not be physically present.

We would like to try and be together in another way.

 

For example we could read texts sent to us during the commemoration. This had already been done during the funeral  of Maria: we had read the message sent by William. Please tell this to any person who Maria Agnese knew and who may wish to contribute in this way.

 

It would also be nice if you wish to organize to meet at the same time as us in Nairobi and in Dar es salam with other people who knew Maria Agnese and create a small event yourself.

 

In addition or in alternative it would be possible for us to be connected through skype at a certain time, after 6.00 pm in Rome (8 pm in Tanzania or Kenya)

 

Skype connection that could be used are noemi.bev and marika.ferrari

 

Please send us the connection you would use.

 

With warm regards

 

Catherine and Noemi

 

 

You may forward this mail to other people of course.

Hi!  I share news of what I'm working on.  I appreciate our help, ideas,
dreams.

I wrote up "Organizing the Kingdom of Heaven".  I sketch out 32
activities that I'd like to do with others.
http://www.selflearners.net/Culture/Welcome

* Live with yourself (Enjoy Truth):
Know yourself and others (answer 12 questions); Investigate; Share ways
of figuring things out; Cherish truth.
* Live with God (Draw Strength):
Allow for God; Be alert to God; Listen for God; Take Jesus seriously;
Reflect on God; Imagine God's point of view; Engage God; Love God; Serve
God.
* Live with friends (Support Each Other):
Share our dreams; Learn our dreams; Pray for our dreams; Portray our
dreams; Support our dreams; Invest in each other; Organize around
leaders; Live together; Love truly; Respond to suffering; Learn
together; Study cultures; Foster self-learning; Seek principles.
* Live with enemies (Reach Out)
Make peace; Worship God; Address evils; Learn from everybody; Create games.

If you are interested in any of the above, please let me know which!  I
feel quite alone.  I am looking for churches in Chicago where anybody
might be interested.  I spoke with priests and a nun at St.Benedict the
African, St.Columbanus and St.Peter and I felt no response, no interest,
no suggestions, no contacts, and worst of all, no concern for me, not
even whether or not I stayed in the Church. God loves his Church and so
I am true to it.  Yet I feel abandoned by the Church and abused by its
propaganda, which I took to heart as a child and as an adult.  It is
wrong to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and not care what happens to
those who follow it.  I did find one Lithuanian priest who was
sympathetic, so that is good.

I'm making progress sharing ways of figuring things out.
http://www.selflearners.net/ways/
My list includes 200+ of my own ways, 148 of Dee Guyton's ways and 80+
Gamestorming games.  I have organized them into 24 "rooms" in "the house
of knowledge".  Dee Guyton is our choir director at St.Benedict the
African. I made a 40 minute video interview with her
http://www.internetinetv.lt/?View=PostCollection/ViewPost&id=755
in which I then made reference to 148 ways that she has figured things
out, see also the diagram:
http://www.selflearners.net/Notes/DeeGuyton

I'd like to continue this research in whatever direction I could find
support for.  I will write to Dave Gray of Gamestorming if he might have
ideas.  I will engage Maria Droujkova about the prospects of creating
math learning materials in the Public Domain.  I've outlined the main
ideas for my book:
http://www.gospelmath.com/Math/Outline
and I'll try to relate that to the "ways of figuring things out".

I think that the most meaningful "deliverable" that my research is
yielding is to organize the "ways of figuring things out" of particular
individuals (like Dee Guyton) or groups (like the Gamestorming
community).  In each case, I made a diagram of their many methods.  Then
I include that in my collection and show how it relates to the system of
24 rooms.  So, for example, I can show that the Gamestorming book has
games that correspond to 21 of those rooms, but lacks them for defining
a company's mission, reviewing its mission and aborting its mission.

Some people whose methods I'd like to profile, directly or through their
works:
* George Polya, author of "How to solve it" and "Mathematical Discovery"
* Paul Zeitz, author of "The Art and Craft of Problem Solving"
* Maria Droujkova of the Math Future community
* Jerry Michalski (Last year he answered my 12 questions in a video
Skype interview)
* Jesus Christ in the Gospels
* Jeff Hawkins' "On Intelligence", his theory of how the brain works
* Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink" about "thinking without thinking"
* Ben de Vries, permaculture
* David Ellison-Bey
* John Harland
* Thomas Chepaitis, Foreign minister of the Republic of Uzhupis
* Sarunas Raudys, neural networks and pattern recognition
* Norman Anderson, information integration theory
* Robert Baden-Powell, founder of Scouting

I appreciate our thoughts about what I might do that would be
meaningful, whether or not commercial.

What are we up to?

Andrius

Andrius Kulikauskas
http://www.selflearners.net
ms@...
(773) 306-3807
Twitter: @selflearners

To friends of Maria,
We in Rusinga Island-Kenya my home, we will have a parallel gathering on March
26th 2011 with Kawala Women Development and Living Hope Community at 7:00 pm to
8:00 pm East Africa Time. We will share our loving  Memories as well, while
Nafsi Africa Acrobats, Rome Italia friends and others in Rome. We will exchange
SMS across together for our last regards for my & our loving Maria.
I have been dejected and nearly loosing my foot hold!
Samwel

Dee,

I've uploaded my video interview with you about the ways you've figured
things out in life, faith and music:
http://www.internetinetv.lt/?View=PostCollection/ViewPost&id=755

I admire you as director of our choir at St.Benedict the African and as
a leader, in general.

In this 40 minute video interview, I noted 148 "ways of figuring things
out" that you referenced.  Then I organized them into a diagram:
http://www.selflearners.net/Notes/DeeGuyton
I'm delighted to show how much wisdom is compressed in your mind and
your life!

I'm also impressed how fluently you speak.  My own talking is all over
the place!

Thank you for your continuous help and inspiration.

Andrius

Andrius Kulikauskas
http://www.selflearners.net
ms@...
(773) 306-3807
Twitter: @selflearners

Dear All,

I know we were altogether in spirit yesterday, remembering Maria Agnese, and
thinking about ways that we could honor her and carry on her amazing work. Below
is a posting made to Dadamac yesterday on her beloved project in Tanzania, the
answer to a heartfelt wish I had sent into the universe to know more about her
work there. Sometimes our prayers are answered! I have replied to her partner,
Ramadhan, regarding an article on Maria Agnese's work, written by a volunteer
who has observed the project.

Plz read below this exciting recounting, and hopefully we can discuss and
collaborate on ways to help and serve this amazing endeavor.

With love and blessings always, Janet


http://dadamac-collaborators-connect.posterous.com/green-revolution-as-maria-com\
momeration


Green Revolution in Tanzania: Farming the eco-friendly way with nature’s
providence
By John Bohemsky

The developed nations and the developing nations are locking horns in Copenhagen
and Cancun, trying to gain the maximum out of these international gatherings for
their own cause, albeit in the name of climate change and global warming.  There
have been drafts made and redrafts drawn; yet no concrete steps have been taken
thus far to come to a consensus for a world that is secure, prosperous and
equitable. The G20 summits and meetings on climate change have all become a
platform for a global political arm twisting and spectacle. Is there a solution?
Is there a way out?

It is common sense that water is essential and critical source of any
agricultural activity. Tanzanians, whether involved in agriculture or not, would
agree that water scarcity in Tanzania has reached its peak. According to a
recent newspaper article, Tanzania is suffering from what is commonly referred
to as water stress. According to the Water and Irrigation ministry, the amount
of water available for use per head per year is projected to fall from the
current 2,150 cubic meters to 1,950 cubic meters by the year 2015 and further to
1,500 cubic meters by 2025.

Tanzania, and most of East Africa, has a wealth of water resources but many
parts of the country are still faced with water shortage, thus disturbing the
equation between demand and availability per person. There have been numerous
factors noted for the shortage of water in some parts of the country including
frequent drought, environmental degradation, contamination of water sources, and
of course the high cost of investing in the construction of water
infrastructure.

There is an urgent need to educate the general public about the causes of water
shortage and finding alternative methods to find sources of water especially in
the agriculture sector to come up with a long term plan for water security.

One farm, in the outskirts of Dar es Salaam, is doing exactly that.
Acknowledging the fact that the future will face acute water shortages it is
finding alternative methods to irrigate its crops by harvesting rainwater. An
idea it believes will solve all its water needs, thus coming up with other
supportive plans for a long term solution.

Maranye Agro Processing and Social Business Limited started with a mission to
produce and sell high quality organic foods and lead in organic farm industry in
Tanzania. A concept conceptualized by Ramadhani Juma Chatta and his business
partner, Maria Agnes Giraudo, an Italian national. Ramadhan had been involved in
many business entrepreneurship before but never in the agriculture sector. It
all began when he visited farm lands in Zimbabwe where small scale farms were
yielding high growth rate and were following modern and eco-friendly sustainable
methods of irrigation. He wanted to do the same in Tanzania. When Maria showed
interest in doing business in Tanzania he was quick to pass on the idea of
getting into agriculture.

Getting the right land to start their agriculture business didn’t come easy.
They had to approach the district commission for procurement. Since the district
commission did not have any land for leasing, they were asked to approach the
village communities. So they had to go village by village looking for an
appropriate piece of land. After days of search they found one in the village of
Mlegele in the district of Kisaraew about 50 kilometres from Dar es Salaam.
Initially the village provided only 50 acres of land.. While trying to strike a
deal with the villagers it was learnt that the village did not have any source
of fresh water for almost four years. The only well they had had gone dry and
Ramadhan decided to resurrect the well to help the community. Once the bore well
was repaired and started pumping water, the villagers were convinced of the
social nature of Maranye, and thus an additional 50 acres of land was bought.

The idea behind Maranye is to offer training to the farming community in
Tanzania to find a balance with life and mother Earth by harvesting rain water
in ways that don’t’ threaten the fragile eco system and creating clean
burning biogas that provides an alternative to burning fossil fuel and cutting
down trees for firewood. According to Ramadhan farming is not only a business
but a way of life. And thus he insists on adopting an eco conscious way of life
and wants everyone to adopt this method.

He has been harvesting rain water in his farm and has already reaped the
benefits of it in abundance. Since cultivating his land he has already harvested
maize, peanuts and other beans successfully without the need to bore a well. His
only regret is that he doesn’t have a bigger capacity to store rain water. At
the moment he has cultivated more than 76000 pineapples. He considers himself
fortunate because the region has been receiving rains on a daily basis recently.
He has also experimented with many a different crop to prove that the land is
fertile to cultivate any type of crop so long as there is water.

The area where the farm is located does not have any rivers flowing nearby and
there is no other source of water. But the area gets good rainfall – almost 
1000-1800 millimetres of rain per year and thus an ideal place to harvest
rainwater. They dug up two ponds and soon the ponds started to fill up and
overflow. That’s when they realized that they needed to dig up bigger ponds
and also realized that rainwater harvesting was their solution to solve their
water problems. All they need now is to increase their capacity to catch this
rain water and also increase the capacity to store them.

Being eco-conscious they want to contribute as much as possible to protect the
environment. So they have managed to build a bio-gas production unit and the
process is underway. The idea is to teach the villages how to produce bio-gas so
they can be part of this eco-friendly process. There are also plans to make
charcoal from grass so people can avoid cutting down precious trees.

Ramadhan and his team want to make this as a centre of agriculture learning.
They want to involve the community in the production and give them the sense of
ownership by sharing with them whatever is being harvested.

“Climate change and global warming is a big problem we are facing in this
world and we are very much conscious of it. We want to encourage others in
agriculture production by adopting green eco-friendly method and encourage them
not to cut down trees but help plant more trees. This is going to be our major
tasks�, says Ramadhan.

In a recently organized community development program, on the 16th of December,
2010, Ramadhan and his team distributed each participant a quarter kilogram of
green grams as a seed contribution to the community to help them start their own
cultivation in a small way. They also used this opportunity to educate the
community about rain water harvesting. It seems that the seed of eco-friendly
farming is sown and Tanzanians are ready to reap its rewards.

******************************************

Hi
Thanks you so much, for the idea of people living close to each other, and being
connected. That is the human relationship. Maria taught us, by doing, how much
that relationship counts.

My name is Ramadhan, the co-founder of the Organic Agriculture company Maria
owns in Africa. Maybe one of its kind in Africa ever established, and the
eco-friendly environment Maria has contributed to the EARTH.

The attached is an observation made by John Bohemsky, a volunteer from India,
who visited the Organic Farm being created by Maria. I spent my day on 26 March
2011, alone, meeting new people in the agriculture field and environmental
destruction areas.

I met with a farm manager from a big farm in our district, I visited the places
where young men engage themselves in destruction of trees, by making charcoal,
and we had a lot of sharing. All promised to visit the organic farm established
by Maria in Masanganya Village. What about you?

Make a wish to visit this marvelous project.
Thanks!

******************************
Dear Ramadhan, Pam, John, and All,
I was thinking of our dear Maria Agnese every minute yesterday, and mourning her
passing but also celebrating her incredible life and spirit. The thought
occurred to me to ask about her work in TZ, so that we might all share that and
find ways to be helpful towards its development and completion.

You surely read my mind, and I believe a higher power to be at work in answering
this request and prayer. Thanks immensely to Ramadhan for this inspiring
posting, and I hope to pass this along to other forums, as well as collaborate
with others here on advancing these exciting and visionary activities and ideas!

With deepest sympathies for the loss of our dear friend, and greatest hopes that
we can work together to realize her--and your-- dreams! Blessings and infinite
appreciation, Janet

Edward,
Your input here is beneficial as i currently work with children with disability.
Samwel.

On Sat Apr 9th, 2011 6:49 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:

>As I have learned it, the essence of Papert's Constructionism is that
>children learn best by making things that enable them to improve their
>internal models of the world, and then helping each other to make them
>better. This goes beyond direct experience as passive spectators, or
>even as active inquirers. It is also a model of how real-world work is
>supposed to be done.
>
>There is a range of such activities, including making physical
>objects, writing reports, creating portfolios, writing programs to
>tell the computer what to do, writing programs to tell a robot what to
>do, writing programs to make physical objects, and so on.
>
>I work with people, at One Laptop Per Child, Sugar Labs, and
>elsewhere, who are designing software and content to implement such
>ideas in the classroom. I find it essential to discuss ideas such as
>Constructionism in the context of real applications. Otherwise we have
>no way of knowing whether we are talking about the same subject.
>
>What versions of Constructionism have you seen? Most of the accounts I
>have read are highly confused and one-sided. There is a strong
>tendency to confuse Constructionism with Piaget's  Constructivism,
>which is indeed part of Papert's proposal, or with any of the dozens
>of other theories under the same or similar names
>
>You wrote
>
>>> when I respond to what is written about his work I respond
>>> across the full spectrum - ranging from great appreciation and
>>> enthusiasm for his ideas at one extreme to cynicism at the other.
>
>I would advise you to ignore what others have written about Papert's
>work (even me), and to read his own writings.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructionist_learning
>
>Seymour Papert defined constructionism in a proposal to the National
>Science Foundation entitled Constructionism: A New Opportunity for
>Elementary Science Education
>
>http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=8751190
>
>as follows: "The word constructionism is a mnemonic for two aspects of
>the theory of science education underlying this project. From
>constructivist theories of psychology we take a view of learning as a
>reconstruction rather than as a transmission of knowledge. Then we
>extend the idea of manipulative materials to the idea that learning is
>most effective when part of an activity the learner experiences as
>constructing a meaningful product."
>
>As Papert and Idit Harel say at the start of Situating Constructionism,
>
>http://www.papert.org/articles/SituatingConstructionism.html
>
>"It is easy enough to formulate simple catchy versions of the idea of
>constructionism; for example, thinking of it as 'learning-by-making'.
>One purpose of this introductory chapter is to orient the reader
>toward using the diversity in the volume to elaborate—to construct—a
>sense of constructionism much richer and more multifaceted, and very
>much deeper in its implications, than could be conveyed by any such
>formula."
>
>I do not find Papert's ideas to be fundamentally new. I find his
>implementation of those ideas to be unlike anything else in the world,
>except for those of his students and co-workers. Not at the same level
>as the differences between Copernicus and Newton on planetary orbits,
>but of a similar kind.
>
>On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 00:21, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...> wrote:
>> Pamela,
>>
>> Thank you for your letter. It's amazing, all that you've done. I'm glad
>> that we might work together. You've written about your past. It would be
>> great if you wrote such a letter about your future. I should likewise.
>> Meanwhile, I've written a list of activities for organizing the kingdom
>> of heaven:
>> http://www.selflearners.net/Culture/
>> Those are all places where we might overlap. In particular, I'm
>> documenting and sharing ways of "figuring things out". I'll send out a
>> letter that I've written about how I'm doing that in math.
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> Andrius
>>
>> Andrius Kulikauskas, http://www.selflearners.net, ms@..., (773)
>> 306-3807, @selflearners
>>
>>
>> 2011.03.26 16:53, Pamela McLean rašė:
>>> Hi Andrius <http://www.dadamac.net/network/andrius-kulikauskas> and
>>> readers of my open letters at http://dadamac.posterous.com
>>> <http://dadamac.posterous.com/> and LearningFromEachOther
>>>
>>> Andrius
>>>
>>> There are many interesting ideas and topics in your email copied
>>> below. As I was reading it my mind responded to so much - much more
>>> that I can possibly write here. I've highlighted areas I found of
>>> particular interest and will just give some observations related to
>>> them. Maybe we will discuss further some other time.
>>>
>>> I've been interested in ICT in education since way back when
>>> "micro-computers" were just coming into existence (I was Pamela Fiddy
>>> then, not McLean) - this means that I was a fan of Papert's work on
>>> logo when it was happening. I was an early experimenter with his ideas
>>> - and friends of mine were involved in making the various "floor
>>> turtles" that brought the whole thing to life in ways beyond
>>> representations on the screen.
>>>
>>> I recognise and admire his work with computers in education as being
>>> very innovative. I also observed in various schools just how much of
>>> his ideas had actually filtered through into classroom practice. This
>>> means when I respond to what is written about his work I respond
>>> across the full spectrum - ranging from great appreciation and
>>> enthusiasm for his ideas at one extreme to cynicism at the other.
>>>
>>> However when I read about Papert and that he developed
>>> "constructionist learning" I have very mixed feeling. I know he was
>>> innovative regarding computer use in education (those of us who were
>>> around at the time of Mindstorms used to hang on his every word), but
>>> I don't have the same feeling about him as an innovator regarding
>>> education in general. The quotes that are ascribed to him regarding
>>> education are good, but (from the viewpoint of an infant and junior
>>> teacher trained in the 1970s) the educational theory seems to me to be
>>> nothing special - good, but not particularly original - it just
>>> reminds me of what we were taught to do.
>>>
>>> The quotes you give tie in with the essays that we wrote at college on
>>> such topics as "The child is the agent of his own learning" (that
>>> title seems permanently lodged in my brain). "Constructionist
>>> learning" ties in with our tutors' insistence that we should never
>>> give children second-hand experience of anything that we could
>>> conceivably have offered as a first-hand experience.
>>>
>>> When I started to teach we weren't directed by the national
>>> curriculum, and, although we were "in loco parentis" we weren't
>>> constrained by a risk-averse "health and safety gone mad" culture. We
>>> had all kinds of freedoms to take unexpected opportunities to learn.
>>> For instance I remember when the firemen came unexpectedly to test the
>>> fire-hydrant outside our school. I quickly took my class out to see
>>> what was happening. The firemen were great and let us watch and ask
>>> questions. It was a sunny day and so they made special "showers of
>>> rain" for us with the hose so that we could see rainbows. It was one
>>> more shared experience that the children and I could draw on in our
>>> subsequent thinking and talking and making sense of our world. Isn't
>>> that the kind of thins the "constructivists" are talking about - or am
>>> I missing something?
>>>
>>> I admit I haven't read that much about "constructivism" - but from
>>> what I have read, I can't see what is so special and new about it
>>> (though I'm ready to be shown). I'm not meaning to belittle Papert,
>>> but it seems to me that there is a wrong emphasis. I think of other
>>> great teachers too, and wonder if they are being equally recognised. I
>>> think fro instance of Zoltan Dienes
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_P%C3%A1l_Dienes who was a
>>> wonderful teacher - in theory and in practice. I remember a day of
>>> watching him teach and the key thing that I learned from him. "Never
>>> teach a generalisation". He believed we should give enough experience
>>> of specific examples so that the children could then generate their
>>> own generalisation - from which they could subsequently confidently
>>> generate their own additional specific examples. (This process can't
>>> be hurried - sometimes it can take months - and it is wonderful to
>>> watch the "aha!" moment when a generalisation dawns).
>>>
>>> Regarding OLPC - I don't often join in the OLPC debate (partly because
>>> I do respect some of the people involved and some of the good work
>>> that has come out of the project) but, with you Andrius, I will share
>>> my frustration at the way that some OLPC people seem to suggest they
>>> are the only people in the world to see the benefit of enabling
>>> children to learn by doing.
>>>
>>> End of my rant.
>>>
>>> I love the ideas of Kestas Augutis - all new to me - thank you. You
>>> never cease to impress me with the range of interesting people that
>>> you know
>>>
>>> I'm interested too in your sequences, hierarchies and networks - not
>>> just for personal learning and/or bodies of knowledge, but also in
>>> connection with how we structure knowledge online.
>>>
>>> You and I definitely share an interest in thinking and learning. The
>>> short title of my final dissertation at college was "Think child!" - I
>>> explored what that meant in the context of various aspects of Bloom's
>>> taxonomy of educational objectives
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_Taxonomy
>>>
>>> When I did my OU degree that "Think child!" dissertation and my
>>> practical work as a teacher were both at the core of all my studies -
>>> which related to decision making, the ordering of information,
>>> systems, computers, artificial intelligence, and so on. That was
>>> followed by my theoretical and practical investigations of the role of
>>> computers in primary education.
>>>
>>> Much later of course, in Minciu Sodas, you gave me the opportunity to
>>> investigate ideas about teachers and learners and ICT - the changing
>>> roles - emerging systems of education in the 21st century. That
>>> interest (theoretical and practical) is still lurking and developing
>>> in my practical work with dadamac and my experiments at dadamac.net
>>> <http://dadamac.net>, posterous and elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Your email ends "Who would like to learn about learning? along with me?"
>>>
>>> Maybe it would be good to explore further with each other our
>>> overlapping interests in learning about learning.
>>>
>>> Pamela
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: *Andrius Kulikauskas* <ms@... <mailto:ms@...>>
>>> Date: 2011/3/25
>>> Subject: [livingbytruth] Seymour Papert and learning to learn/think
>>> To: learningfromeachother <learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com>>,
>>> mathfuture@googlegroups.com <mailto:mathfuture@googlegroups.com>,
>>> livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com <mailto:livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wrote this for another group. Perhaps it will spark ideas. Andrius
>>> Kulikauskas
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Seymour Papert's work is popular in Lithuania. I'm glad that you've
>>> inspired me to learn more how remarkable he is. Still,I think we're
>>> just in the early days of "constructionist" learning, as he called it.
>>>
>>> I'm curious why you focus on teaching kids rather than adults to
>>> learn/think. I feel as if there are two camps:
>>> * People who want to teach children. They consider it the optimal age
>>> to teach because it keeps children out of trouble, gives them something
>>> to do, and most adults aren't teachable, especially if they haven't been
>>> taught as children, or they aren't competent or interested to teach or
>>> encourage their children.
>>> * People who want to teach adults. They consider it the optimal age
>>> because adults can learn from each other as (possible) equals (or
>>> unequals), the learning can be voluntary, and it can develop a shared
>>> culture. Whereas children often don't need to be taught, they can learn
>>> many things haphazardly, almost automatically, and they are ultimately
>>> influenced by adults who are interested (or not) in learning.
>>> I'm strongly in the second camp, mostly because I like to learn myself
>>> and I want to share what I'm learning, but from Minciu Sodas I know
>>> dedicated people in the first camp, like Edward Cherlin (advocate of
>>> OLPC and Sugar).
>>>
>>> Papert, a mathematician, worked with developmental psychologist Jean
>>> Piaget from 1958 to 1963
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_(learning_theory)
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_%28learning_theory%29>
>>> Piaget did many original experiments that made clear how children of
>>> different ages rely on internal models for judging, for example, which
>>> container holds more water, (say, the taller one), and that these models
>>> grow more sophisticated in predictable ways. "Individual learners
>>> construct mental models to understand the world around them". See
>>> Norman Anderson's information integration theory for a rigorous critique
>>> of Piaget's ideas and results (notably his belief that children can't
>>> integrate concepts), pg. 202, "A Functional Theory of Cognition".
>>>
>>> Papert developed "constructionist" learning:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructionist_learning
>>> "learning can happen most effectively when people are active in making
>>> tangible objects in the real world"
>>> * "learning as a reconstruction rather than as a transmission of
>>> knowledge"
>>> * "learning is most effective when part of an activity the learner
>>> experiences as constructing a meaningful product"
>>> which is related to John Dewey and "experiential education", where
>>> experience is central, there is interaction (internal needs/goals of a
>>> person) and continuity (from experience to experience).
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiential_education
>>>
>>> Papert was a proponent of bringing IT to the classrooms. He developed
>>> the Logo programming language (for writing simple programs to manipulate
>>> a Turtle on a screen, drawing pictures, thereby learn math, etc.) He
>>> wrote "Mindstorms: Children Computers and Powerful Ideas" (1980). Lego
>>> Mindstorms were named after the book. His Epistemology and Learning
>>> Research Group was a forerunner of the MIT Media Lab. He influenced
>>> Alan Kay, who led the team that developed Smalltalk at Xerox PARC, in
>>> part for constructionist learning, and who later created Squeak. Papert
>>> was hurt badly in an accident in 2006.
>>>
>>> "Some of the most crucial steps in mental growth are based not simply on
>>> acquiring new skills, but on acquiring new administrative ways to use
>>> what one already knows". "Papert's principle" described in Marvin
>>> Minsky's "Society of the Mind":
>>> http://www.papert.org/articles/PapertsPrinciple.html
>>>
>>> Edith Ackermann's paper seems like a good comparison of Piaget's and
>>> Papert's views:
>>>
http://learning.media.mit.edu/content/publications/EA.Piaget%20_%20Papert.pdf
>>>
>>> In 1997, I moved to Lithuania and met Kestas Augutis, a hermit living in
>>> a swamp, but teaching kids computers (DOS, 286s, 386s) at the local
>>> school. The "Mindstorms" book had been translated into Lithuania, and
>>> the Logo language was and is popular:
>>> http://www.logo.lt http://www.jkm.lt/LOGO/2011/
>>>
>>> Kestas had noteworthy visions of education, including that every child
>>> should write three books:
>>> * an encyclopedia, organized as a network
>>> * a thesaurus, organized as a hierarchy
>>> * a chronicle, organized as a sequence
>>> These three books would be the outcome of the child's education, would
>>> show that they were ready for the world, and would be what they would
>>> build on throughout their life. He also thought every child should help
>>> build a house, as he did with his father. Kestas died in 1998 at the
>>> age of 43.
>>>
>>> I liked his "three books" idea and, for my first project, I tried to
>>> write software for organizing thoughts in those three ways. Then I
>>> learned about TheBrain and MindManager and realized that there was a
>>> need for an import/export format (or modeling language) for getting
>>> collections of thoughts in and out of such tools. That led to Mindset
>>> http://www.ms.lt/mindset.html in 2001. (I was told by HP Bristol Labs
>>> that it was 10 years too early, but now in the age of Twitter, it might
>>> be timely.)
>>>
>>> I made a list of examples to check whether information gets organized in
>>> sequences, hierarchies and networks, and surprisingly, I found out that
>>> it never does! Instead, it gets organized in pairs of these
>>> structures. For example, a sequence of historical events quickly
>>> becomes unwieldy and so it is reorganized into a hierarchy and becomes a
>>> "chronicle". I observed six types:
>>> * chronicle: sequence -> hierarchy
>>> * evolution: hierarchy -> sequence
>>> * catalog: hierarchy -> network
>>> * atlas: network -> hierarchy
>>> * canon: sequence -> network
>>> * tour: network -> sequence
>>> See: http://www.worknets.org/papers/organizingthoughts.html
>>>
>>> Is that a good start? Perhaps you can add some key ideas?
>>>
>>> I'm very active in trying to understand how we figure things out,
>>> http://www.selflearners.net/ways/
>>> which is a key but neglected part of learning and thinking. It seems
>>> that we are still in very early days to teach people how to learn and
>>> think.
>>>
>>> Children are likely operating on an implicit approach that is better
>>> than anything we might explicitly teach them about learning. Compare
>>> their natural language acquisition skills and our educational methods
>>> for teaching language (or vision or faith or ...?)
>>>
>>> I'm trying to do this from scratch. For example, what's worth
>>> teaching? Last year I decided that what's worth teaching is right and
>>> wrong. Reading, writing (if they are worthwhile) help us care about
>>> others. Mathematics (if it is worthwhile) builds models which are to
>>> some extent valid, and at some point invalid, and perhaps that helps us
>>> appreciate the relationship of system and spirit. I still don't know.
>>> Who knows? I'm working on my math ideas here:
>>> http://www.gospelmath.com/Math/DeepIdeas
>>>
>>> Who dares to teach children? I prefer to experiment on myself.
>>>
>>> Who would like to learn about learning? along with me?
>>>
>>> Andrius
>>>
>>> Andrius Kulikauskas
>>> http://www.selflearners.net
>>> ms@... <mailto:ms@...>
>>> (773) 306-3807
>>> @selflearners
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Each letter sent to livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com>
>>> enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN whenever it does not state otherwise.
>>> http://www.primarilypublicdomain.org/letter/
>>> Please credit our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>> livingbytruth-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:livingbytruth-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless
it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be
kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
>Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>http://www.earthtreasury.org/

Hello Pam, Graham and all,
It is real for us this year and last year. This is the planting season for us in
Rusinga island but the fluctuating  rainfall, the planted crops are withed,
leaves small and hot sun will dry them up.
Our farms are nolonger productive what can we share to change as climate would
favour us? If additional exchange programme is added.
Community culture product, what is happening?
Is IT for development nolonger an advantage? And if so why all this wars &
battle for leadership?
Fine life is first changing but which way?
Samwel.

On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 03:36, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
> Edward,
> Your input here is beneficial as i currently work with children with
disability.

I am legally disabled with ADHD, and my children have it, also. We
have struggled endlessly with schools over our different learning
styles. One tactic that my mother suggested successfully was to allow
me to do work that was different from the standard course, and harder.
This unfortunately was not acceptable at the schools my children
attended.

But then, all children suffer from a grievous disability. They are
children, and adults do not take them seriously. I mean to change
that, with the help of a lot of others.

> Samwel.
>
> On Sat Apr 9th, 2011 6:49 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:
>
>>As I have learned it, the essence of Papert's Constructionism is that
>>children learn best by making things that enable them to improve their
>>internal models of the world, and then helping each other to make them
>>better. This goes beyond direct experience as passive spectators, or
>>even as active inquirers. It is also a model of how real-world work is
>>supposed to be done.
>>
>>There is a range of such activities, including making physical
>>objects, writing reports, creating portfolios, writing programs to
>>tell the computer what to do, writing programs to tell a robot what to
>>do, writing programs to make physical objects, and so on.
>>
>>I work with people, at One Laptop Per Child, Sugar Labs, and
>>elsewhere, who are designing software and content to implement such
>>ideas in the classroom. I find it essential to discuss ideas such as
>>Constructionism in the context of real applications. Otherwise we have
>>no way of knowing whether we are talking about the same subject.
>>
>>What versions of Constructionism have you seen? Most of the accounts I
>>have read are highly confused and one-sided. There is a strong
>>tendency to confuse Constructionism with Piaget's  Constructivism,
>>which is indeed part of Papert's proposal, or with any of the dozens
>>of other theories under the same or similar names
>>
>>You wrote
>>
>>>> when I respond to what is written about his work I respond
>>>> across the full spectrum - ranging from great appreciation and
>>>> enthusiasm for his ideas at one extreme to cynicism at the other.
>>
>>I would advise you to ignore what others have written about Papert's
>>work (even me), and to read his own writings.
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructionist_learning
>>
>>Seymour Papert defined constructionism in a proposal to the National
>>Science Foundation entitled Constructionism: A New Opportunity for
>>Elementary Science Education
>>
>>http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=8751190
>>
>>as follows: "The word constructionism is a mnemonic for two aspects of
>>the theory of science education underlying this project. From
>>constructivist theories of psychology we take a view of learning as a
>>reconstruction rather than as a transmission of knowledge. Then we
>>extend the idea of manipulative materials to the idea that learning is
>>most effective when part of an activity the learner experiences as
>>constructing a meaningful product."
>>
>>As Papert and Idit Harel say at the start of Situating Constructionism,
>>
>>http://www.papert.org/articles/SituatingConstructionism.html
>>
>>"It is easy enough to formulate simple catchy versions of the idea of
>>constructionism; for example, thinking of it as 'learning-by-making'.
>>One purpose of this introductory chapter is to orient the reader
>>toward using the diversity in the volume to elaborate—to construct—a
>>sense of constructionism much richer and more multifaceted, and very
>>much deeper in its implications, than could be conveyed by any such
>>formula."
>>
>>I do not find Papert's ideas to be fundamentally new. I find his
>>implementation of those ideas to be unlike anything else in the world,
>>except for those of his students and co-workers. Not at the same level
>>as the differences between Copernicus and Newton on planetary orbits,
>>but of a similar kind.
>>
>>On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 00:21, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...> wrote:
>>> Pamela,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your letter. It's amazing, all that you've done. I'm glad
>>> that we might work together. You've written about your past. It would be
>>> great if you wrote such a letter about your future. I should likewise.
>>> Meanwhile, I've written a list of activities for organizing the kingdom
>>> of heaven:
>>> http://www.selflearners.net/Culture/
>>> Those are all places where we might overlap. In particular, I'm
>>> documenting and sharing ways of "figuring things out". I'll send out a
>>> letter that I've written about how I'm doing that in math.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>>
>>> Andrius
>>>
>>> Andrius Kulikauskas, http://www.selflearners.net, ms@..., (773)
>>> 306-3807, @selflearners
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011.03.26 16:53, Pamela McLean rašė:
>>>> Hi Andrius <http://www.dadamac.net/network/andrius-kulikauskas> and
>>>> readers of my open letters at http://dadamac.posterous.com
>>>> <http://dadamac.posterous.com/> and LearningFromEachOther
>>>>
>>>> Andrius
>>>>
>>>> There are many interesting ideas and topics in your email copied
>>>> below. As I was reading it my mind responded to so much - much more
>>>> that I can possibly write here. I've highlighted areas I found of
>>>> particular interest and will just give some observations related to
>>>> them. Maybe we will discuss further some other time.
>>>>
>>>> I've been interested in ICT in education since way back when
>>>> "micro-computers" were just coming into existence (I was Pamela Fiddy
>>>> then, not McLean) - this means that I was a fan of Papert's work on
>>>> logo when it was happening. I was an early experimenter with his ideas
>>>> - and friends of mine were involved in making the various "floor
>>>> turtles" that brought the whole thing to life in ways beyond
>>>> representations on the screen.
>>>>
>>>> I recognise and admire his work with computers in education as being
>>>> very innovative. I also observed in various schools just how much of
>>>> his ideas had actually filtered through into classroom practice. This
>>>> means when I respond to what is written about his work I respond
>>>> across the full spectrum - ranging from great appreciation and
>>>> enthusiasm for his ideas at one extreme to cynicism at the other.
>>>>
>>>> However when I read about Papert and that he developed
>>>> "constructionist learning" I have very mixed feeling. I know he was
>>>> innovative regarding computer use in education (those of us who were
>>>> around at the time of Mindstorms used to hang on his every word), but
>>>> I don't have the same feeling about him as an innovator regarding
>>>> education in general. The quotes that are ascribed to him regarding
>>>> education are good, but (from the viewpoint of an infant and junior
>>>> teacher trained in the 1970s) the educational theory seems to me to be
>>>> nothing special - good, but not particularly original - it just
>>>> reminds me of what we were taught to do.
>>>>
>>>> The quotes you give tie in with the essays that we wrote at college on
>>>> such topics as "The child is the agent of his own learning" (that
>>>> title seems permanently lodged in my brain). "Constructionist
>>>> learning" ties in with our tutors' insistence that we should never
>>>> give children second-hand experience of anything that we could
>>>> conceivably have offered as a first-hand experience.
>>>>
>>>> When I started to teach we weren't directed by the national
>>>> curriculum, and, although we were "in loco parentis" we weren't
>>>> constrained by a risk-averse "health and safety gone mad" culture. We
>>>> had all kinds of freedoms to take unexpected opportunities to learn.
>>>> For instance I remember when the firemen came unexpectedly to test the
>>>> fire-hydrant outside our school. I quickly took my class out to see
>>>> what was happening. The firemen were great and let us watch and ask
>>>> questions. It was a sunny day and so they made special "showers of
>>>> rain" for us with the hose so that we could see rainbows. It was one
>>>> more shared experience that the children and I could draw on in our
>>>> subsequent thinking and talking and making sense of our world. Isn't
>>>> that the kind of thins the "constructivists" are talking about - or am
>>>> I missing something?
>>>>
>>>> I admit I haven't read that much about "constructivism" - but from
>>>> what I have read, I can't see what is so special and new about it
>>>> (though I'm ready to be shown). I'm not meaning to belittle Papert,
>>>> but it seems to me that there is a wrong emphasis. I think of other
>>>> great teachers too, and wonder if they are being equally recognised. I
>>>> think fro instance of Zoltan Dienes
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_P%C3%A1l_Dienes who was a
>>>> wonderful teacher - in theory and in practice. I remember a day of
>>>> watching him teach and the key thing that I learned from him. "Never
>>>> teach a generalisation". He believed we should give enough experience
>>>> of specific examples so that the children could then generate their
>>>> own generalisation - from which they could subsequently confidently
>>>> generate their own additional specific examples. (This process can't
>>>> be hurried - sometimes it can take months - and it is wonderful to
>>>> watch the "aha!" moment when a generalisation dawns).
>>>>
>>>> Regarding OLPC - I don't often join in the OLPC debate (partly because
>>>> I do respect some of the people involved and some of the good work
>>>> that has come out of the project) but, with you Andrius, I will share
>>>> my frustration at the way that some OLPC people seem to suggest they
>>>> are the only people in the world to see the benefit of enabling
>>>> children to learn by doing.
>>>>
>>>> End of my rant.
>>>>
>>>> I love the ideas of Kestas Augutis - all new to me - thank you. You
>>>> never cease to impress me with the range of interesting people that
>>>> you know
>>>>
>>>> I'm interested too in your sequences, hierarchies and networks - not
>>>> just for personal learning and/or bodies of knowledge, but also in
>>>> connection with how we structure knowledge online.
>>>>
>>>> You and I definitely share an interest in thinking and learning. The
>>>> short title of my final dissertation at college was "Think child!" - I
>>>> explored what that meant in the context of various aspects of Bloom's
>>>> taxonomy of educational objectives
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_Taxonomy
>>>>
>>>> When I did my OU degree that "Think child!" dissertation and my
>>>> practical work as a teacher were both at the core of all my studies -
>>>> which related to decision making, the ordering of information,
>>>> systems, computers, artificial intelligence, and so on. That was
>>>> followed by my theoretical and practical investigations of the role of
>>>> computers in primary education.
>>>>
>>>> Much later of course, in Minciu Sodas, you gave me the opportunity to
>>>> investigate ideas about teachers and learners and ICT - the changing
>>>> roles - emerging systems of education in the 21st century. That
>>>> interest (theoretical and practical) is still lurking and developing
>>>> in my practical work with dadamac and my experiments at dadamac.net
>>>> <http://dadamac.net>, posterous and elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Your email ends "Who would like to learn about learning? along with me?"
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it would be good to explore further with each other our
>>>> overlapping interests in learning about learning.
>>>>
>>>> Pamela
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: *Andrius Kulikauskas* <ms@... <mailto:ms@...>>
>>>> Date: 2011/3/25
>>>> Subject: [livingbytruth] Seymour Papert and learning to learn/think
>>>> To: learningfromeachother <learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com
>>>> <mailto:learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com>>,
>>>> mathfuture@googlegroups.com <mailto:mathfuture@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com <mailto:livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wrote this for another group. Perhaps it will spark ideas. Andrius
>>>> Kulikauskas
>>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Seymour Papert's work is popular in Lithuania. I'm glad that you've
>>>> inspired me to learn more how remarkable he is. Still,I think we're
>>>> just in the early days of "constructionist" learning, as he called it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious why you focus on teaching kids rather than adults to
>>>> learn/think. I feel as if there are two camps:
>>>> * People who want to teach children. They consider it the optimal age
>>>> to teach because it keeps children out of trouble, gives them something
>>>> to do, and most adults aren't teachable, especially if they haven't been
>>>> taught as children, or they aren't competent or interested to teach or
>>>> encourage their children.
>>>> * People who want to teach adults. They consider it the optimal age
>>>> because adults can learn from each other as (possible) equals (or
>>>> unequals), the learning can be voluntary, and it can develop a shared
>>>> culture. Whereas children often don't need to be taught, they can learn
>>>> many things haphazardly, almost automatically, and they are ultimately
>>>> influenced by adults who are interested (or not) in learning.
>>>> I'm strongly in the second camp, mostly because I like to learn myself
>>>> and I want to share what I'm learning, but from Minciu Sodas I know
>>>> dedicated people in the first camp, like Edward Cherlin (advocate of
>>>> OLPC and Sugar).
>>>>
>>>> Papert, a mathematician, worked with developmental psychologist Jean
>>>> Piaget from 1958 to 1963
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_(learning_theory)
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_%28learning_theory%29>
>>>> Piaget did many original experiments that made clear how children of
>>>> different ages rely on internal models for judging, for example, which
>>>> container holds more water, (say, the taller one), and that these models
>>>> grow more sophisticated in predictable ways. "Individual learners
>>>> construct mental models to understand the world around them". See
>>>> Norman Anderson's information integration theory for a rigorous critique
>>>> of Piaget's ideas and results (notably his belief that children can't
>>>> integrate concepts), pg. 202, "A Functional Theory of Cognition".
>>>>
>>>> Papert developed "constructionist" learning:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructionist_learning
>>>> "learning can happen most effectively when people are active in making
>>>> tangible objects in the real world"
>>>> * "learning as a reconstruction rather than as a transmission of
>>>> knowledge"
>>>> * "learning is most effective when part of an activity the learner
>>>> experiences as constructing a meaningful product"
>>>> which is related to John Dewey and "experiential education", where
>>>> experience is central, there is interaction (internal needs/goals of a
>>>> person) and continuity (from experience to experience).
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiential_education
>>>>
>>>> Papert was a proponent of bringing IT to the classrooms. He developed
>>>> the Logo programming language (for writing simple programs to manipulate
>>>> a Turtle on a screen, drawing pictures, thereby learn math, etc.) He
>>>> wrote "Mindstorms: Children Computers and Powerful Ideas" (1980). Lego
>>>> Mindstorms were named after the book. His Epistemology and Learning
>>>> Research Group was a forerunner of the MIT Media Lab. He influenced
>>>> Alan Kay, who led the team that developed Smalltalk at Xerox PARC, in
>>>> part for constructionist learning, and who later created Squeak. Papert
>>>> was hurt badly in an accident in 2006.
>>>>
>>>> "Some of the most crucial steps in mental growth are based not simply on
>>>> acquiring new skills, but on acquiring new administrative ways to use
>>>> what one already knows". "Papert's principle" described in Marvin
>>>> Minsky's "Society of the Mind":
>>>> http://www.papert.org/articles/PapertsPrinciple.html
>>>>
>>>> Edith Ackermann's paper seems like a good comparison of Piaget's and
>>>> Papert's views:
>>>>
http://learning.media.mit.edu/content/publications/EA.Piaget%20_%20Papert.pdf
>>>>
>>>> In 1997, I moved to Lithuania and met Kestas Augutis, a hermit living in
>>>> a swamp, but teaching kids computers (DOS, 286s, 386s) at the local
>>>> school. The "Mindstorms" book had been translated into Lithuania, and
>>>> the Logo language was and is popular:
>>>> http://www.logo.lt http://www.jkm.lt/LOGO/2011/
>>>>
>>>> Kestas had noteworthy visions of education, including that every child
>>>> should write three books:
>>>> * an encyclopedia, organized as a network
>>>> * a thesaurus, organized as a hierarchy
>>>> * a chronicle, organized as a sequence
>>>> These three books would be the outcome of the child's education, would
>>>> show that they were ready for the world, and would be what they would
>>>> build on throughout their life. He also thought every child should help
>>>> build a house, as he did with his father. Kestas died in 1998 at the
>>>> age of 43.
>>>>
>>>> I liked his "three books" idea and, for my first project, I tried to
>>>> write software for organizing thoughts in those three ways. Then I
>>>> learned about TheBrain and MindManager and realized that there was a
>>>> need for an import/export format (or modeling language) for getting
>>>> collections of thoughts in and out of such tools. That led to Mindset
>>>> http://www.ms.lt/mindset.html in 2001. (I was told by HP Bristol Labs
>>>> that it was 10 years too early, but now in the age of Twitter, it might
>>>> be timely.)
>>>>
>>>> I made a list of examples to check whether information gets organized in
>>>> sequences, hierarchies and networks, and surprisingly, I found out that
>>>> it never does! Instead, it gets organized in pairs of these
>>>> structures. For example, a sequence of historical events quickly
>>>> becomes unwieldy and so it is reorganized into a hierarchy and becomes a
>>>> "chronicle". I observed six types:
>>>> * chronicle: sequence -> hierarchy
>>>> * evolution: hierarchy -> sequence
>>>> * catalog: hierarchy -> network
>>>> * atlas: network -> hierarchy
>>>> * canon: sequence -> network
>>>> * tour: network -> sequence
>>>> See: http://www.worknets.org/papers/organizingthoughts.html
>>>>
>>>> Is that a good start? Perhaps you can add some key ideas?
>>>>
>>>> I'm very active in trying to understand how we figure things out,
>>>> http://www.selflearners.net/ways/
>>>> which is a key but neglected part of learning and thinking. It seems
>>>> that we are still in very early days to teach people how to learn and
>>>> think.
>>>>
>>>> Children are likely operating on an implicit approach that is better
>>>> than anything we might explicitly teach them about learning. Compare
>>>> their natural language acquisition skills and our educational methods
>>>> for teaching language (or vision or faith or ...?)
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to do this from scratch. For example, what's worth
>>>> teaching? Last year I decided that what's worth teaching is right and
>>>> wrong. Reading, writing (if they are worthwhile) help us care about
>>>> others. Mathematics (if it is worthwhile) builds models which are to
>>>> some extent valid, and at some point invalid, and perhaps that helps us
>>>> appreciate the relationship of system and spirit. I still don't know.
>>>> Who knows? I'm working on my math ideas here:
>>>> http://www.gospelmath.com/Math/DeepIdeas
>>>>
>>>> Who dares to teach children? I prefer to experiment on myself.
>>>>
>>>> Who would like to learn about learning? along with me?
>>>>
>>>> Andrius
>>>>
>>>> Andrius Kulikauskas
>>>> http://www.selflearners.net
>>>> ms@... <mailto:ms@...>
>>>> (773) 306-3807
>>>> @selflearners
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Each letter sent to livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com
>>>> <mailto:livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN whenever it does not state otherwise.
>>>> http://www.primarilypublicdomain.org/letter/
>>>> Please credit our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> livingbytruth-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>>>> <mailto:livingbytruth-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless
it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be
kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
>>Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>>The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>>http://www.earthtreasury.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> A Focus is being made on having a wireless internet connection for the
> community to help them have a place for information handling and
> transfer. There is motive of taking risks to help the community Develop.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



--
Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
http://www.earthtreasury.org/

Dear Pamela, Andrius, Janet, Ricardo, Chris and all,

We in Rusinga island, Kawala women wish you Happy Easter all of you. However
hard economic strains world over, life continues.
How is everything? Power struggle everywhere? Even after fresh election? Hikes
of petroleum products and prices! We have to go back to our roots. Where did the
human race go wrong? Can we start from scrutch cultures of Rennissance or
Revolutions?  we have gone back to agriculture.
Happy Easter!
Samwel.

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On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 14:36, Pamela McLean <pam54321@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Ed
>
> I love your vision. At some point I hope we are going to connect up properly.
There is so much overlap in our interests, concerns and approaches.

Indeed. I look forward to it.

> At present I'm not working directly with children - but I do still care about
education.

What are you working on?

> Pamela
>
> On 18 April 2011 05:49, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 03:36, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
>> > Edward,
>> > Your input here is beneficial as i currently work with children with
disability.
>>
>> I am legally disabled with ADHD, and my children have it, also. We
>> have struggled endlessly with schools over our different learning
>> styles. One tactic that my mother suggested successfully was to allow
>> me to do work that was different from the standard course, and harder.
>> This unfortunately was not acceptable at the schools my children
>> attended.
>>
>> But then, all children suffer from a grievous disability. They are
>> children, and adults do not take them seriously. I mean to change
>> that, with the help of a lot of others.
>>
>> > Samwel.
>> >
>> > On Sat Apr 9th, 2011 6:49 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:
>> >
>> >>As I have learned it, the essence of Papert's Constructionism is that
>> >>children learn best by making things that enable them to improve their
>> >>internal models of the world, and then helping each other to make them
>> >>better. This goes beyond direct experience as passive spectators, or
>> >>even as active inquirers. It is also a model of how real-world work is
>> >>supposed to be done.
>> >>
>> >>There is a range of such activities, including making physical
>> >>objects, writing reports, creating portfolios, writing programs to
>> >>tell the computer what to do, writing programs to tell a robot what to
>> >>do, writing programs to make physical objects, and so on.
>> >>
>> >>I work with people, at One Laptop Per Child, Sugar Labs, and
>> >>elsewhere, who are designing software and content to implement such
>> >>ideas in the classroom. I find it essential to discuss ideas such as
>> >>Constructionism in the context of real applications. Otherwise we have
>> >>no way of knowing whether we are talking about the same subject.
>> >>
>> >>What versions of Constructionism have you seen? Most of the accounts I
>> >>have read are highly confused and one-sided. There is a strong
>> >>tendency to confuse Constructionism with Piaget's  Constructivism,
>> >>which is indeed part of Papert's proposal, or with any of the dozens
>> >>of other theories under the same or similar names
>> >>
>> >>You wrote
>> >>
>> >>>> when I respond to what is written about his work I respond
>> >>>> across the full spectrum - ranging from great appreciation and
>> >>>> enthusiasm for his ideas at one extreme to cynicism at the other.
>> >>
>> >>I would advise you to ignore what others have written about Papert's
>> >>work (even me), and to read his own writings.
>> >>
>> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructionist_learning
>> >>
>> >>Seymour Papert defined constructionism in a proposal to the National
>> >>Science Foundation entitled Constructionism: A New Opportunity for
>> >>Elementary Science Education
>> >>
>> >>http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=8751190
>> >>
>> >>as follows: "The word constructionism is a mnemonic for two aspects of
>> >>the theory of science education underlying this project. From
>> >>constructivist theories of psychology we take a view of learning as a
>> >>reconstruction rather than as a transmission of knowledge. Then we
>> >>extend the idea of manipulative materials to the idea that learning is
>> >>most effective when part of an activity the learner experiences as
>> >>constructing a meaningful product."
>> >>
>> >>As Papert and Idit Harel say at the start of Situating Constructionism,
>> >>
>> >>http://www.papert.org/articles/SituatingConstructionism.html
>> >>
>> >>"It is easy enough to formulate simple catchy versions of the idea of
>> >>constructionism; for example, thinking of it as 'learning-by-making'.
>> >>One purpose of this introductory chapter is to orient the reader
>> >>toward using the diversity in the volume to elaborate—to construct—a
>> >>sense of constructionism much richer and more multifaceted, and very
>> >>much deeper in its implications, than could be conveyed by any such
>> >>formula."
>> >>
>> >>I do not find Papert's ideas to be fundamentally new. I find his
>> >>implementation of those ideas to be unlike anything else in the world,
>> >>except for those of his students and co-workers. Not at the same level
>> >>as the differences between Copernicus and Newton on planetary orbits,
>> >>but of a similar kind.
>> >>
>> >>On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 00:21, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...> wrote:
>> >>> Pamela,
>> >>>
>> >>> Thank you for your letter. It's amazing, all that you've done. I'm glad
>> >>> that we might work together. You've written about your past. It would be
>> >>> great if you wrote such a letter about your future. I should likewise.
>> >>> Meanwhile, I've written a list of activities for organizing the kingdom
>> >>> of heaven:
>> >>> http://www.selflearners.net/Culture/
>> >>> Those are all places where we might overlap. In particular, I'm
>> >>> documenting and sharing ways of "figuring things out". I'll send out a
>> >>> letter that I've written about how I'm doing that in math.
>> >>>
>> >>> Peace,
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrius
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrius Kulikauskas, http://www.selflearners.net, ms@..., (773)
>> >>> 306-3807, @selflearners
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> 2011.03.26 16:53, Pamela McLean rašė:
>> >>>> Hi Andrius <http://www.dadamac.net/network/andrius-kulikauskas> and
>> >>>> readers of my open letters at http://dadamac.posterous.com
>> >>>> <http://dadamac.posterous.com/> and LearningFromEachOther
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Andrius
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There are many interesting ideas and topics in your email copied
>> >>>> below. As I was reading it my mind responded to so much - much more
>> >>>> that I can possibly write here. I've highlighted areas I found of
>> >>>> particular interest and will just give some observations related to
>> >>>> them. Maybe we will discuss further some other time.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've been interested in ICT in education since way back when
>> >>>> "micro-computers" were just coming into existence (I was Pamela Fiddy
>> >>>> then, not McLean) - this means that I was a fan of Papert's work on
>> >>>> logo when it was happening. I was an early experimenter with his ideas
>> >>>> - and friends of mine were involved in making the various "floor
>> >>>> turtles" that brought the whole thing to life in ways beyond
>> >>>> representations on the screen.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I recognise and admire his work with computers in education as being
>> >>>> very innovative. I also observed in various schools just how much of
>> >>>> his ideas had actually filtered through into classroom practice. This
>> >>>> means when I respond to what is written about his work I respond
>> >>>> across the full spectrum - ranging from great appreciation and
>> >>>> enthusiasm for his ideas at one extreme to cynicism at the other.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> However when I read about Papert and that he developed
>> >>>> "constructionist learning" I have very mixed feeling. I know he was
>> >>>> innovative regarding computer use in education (those of us who were
>> >>>> around at the time of Mindstorms used to hang on his every word), but
>> >>>> I don't have the same feeling about him as an innovator regarding
>> >>>> education in general. The quotes that are ascribed to him regarding
>> >>>> education are good, but (from the viewpoint of an infant and junior
>> >>>> teacher trained in the 1970s) the educational theory seems to me to be
>> >>>> nothing special - good, but not particularly original - it just
>> >>>> reminds me of what we were taught to do.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The quotes you give tie in with the essays that we wrote at college on
>> >>>> such topics as "The child is the agent of his own learning" (that
>> >>>> title seems permanently lodged in my brain). "Constructionist
>> >>>> learning" ties in with our tutors' insistence that we should never
>> >>>> give children second-hand experience of anything that we could
>> >>>> conceivably have offered as a first-hand experience.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When I started to teach we weren't directed by the national
>> >>>> curriculum, and, although we were "in loco parentis" we weren't
>> >>>> constrained by a risk-averse "health and safety gone mad" culture. We
>> >>>> had all kinds of freedoms to take unexpected opportunities to learn.
>> >>>> For instance I remember when the firemen came unexpectedly to test the
>> >>>> fire-hydrant outside our school. I quickly took my class out to see
>> >>>> what was happening. The firemen were great and let us watch and ask
>> >>>> questions. It was a sunny day and so they made special "showers of
>> >>>> rain" for us with the hose so that we could see rainbows. It was one
>> >>>> more shared experience that the children and I could draw on in our
>> >>>> subsequent thinking and talking and making sense of our world. Isn't
>> >>>> that the kind of thins the "constructivists" are talking about - or am
>> >>>> I missing something?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I admit I haven't read that much about "constructivism" - but from
>> >>>> what I have read, I can't see what is so special and new about it
>> >>>> (though I'm ready to be shown). I'm not meaning to belittle Papert,
>> >>>> but it seems to me that there is a wrong emphasis. I think of other
>> >>>> great teachers too, and wonder if they are being equally recognised. I
>> >>>> think fro instance of Zoltan Dienes
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_P%C3%A1l_Dienes who was a
>> >>>> wonderful teacher - in theory and in practice. I remember a day of
>> >>>> watching him teach and the key thing that I learned from him. "Never
>> >>>> teach a generalisation". He believed we should give enough experience
>> >>>> of specific examples so that the children could then generate their
>> >>>> own generalisation - from which they could subsequently confidently
>> >>>> generate their own additional specific examples. (This process can't
>> >>>> be hurried - sometimes it can take months - and it is wonderful to
>> >>>> watch the "aha!" moment when a generalisation dawns).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regarding OLPC - I don't often join in the OLPC debate (partly because
>> >>>> I do respect some of the people involved and some of the good work
>> >>>> that has come out of the project) but, with you Andrius, I will share
>> >>>> my frustration at the way that some OLPC people seem to suggest they
>> >>>> are the only people in the world to see the benefit of enabling
>> >>>> children to learn by doing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> End of my rant.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I love the ideas of Kestas Augutis - all new to me - thank you. You
>> >>>> never cease to impress me with the range of interesting people that
>> >>>> you know
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm interested too in your sequences, hierarchies and networks - not
>> >>>> just for personal learning and/or bodies of knowledge, but also in
>> >>>> connection with how we structure knowledge online.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You and I definitely share an interest in thinking and learning. The
>> >>>> short title of my final dissertation at college was "Think child!" - I
>> >>>> explored what that meant in the context of various aspects of Bloom's
>> >>>> taxonomy of educational objectives
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_Taxonomy
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When I did my OU degree that "Think child!" dissertation and my
>> >>>> practical work as a teacher were both at the core of all my studies -
>> >>>> which related to decision making, the ordering of information,
>> >>>> systems, computers, artificial intelligence, and so on. That was
>> >>>> followed by my theoretical and practical investigations of the role of
>> >>>> computers in primary education.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Much later of course, in Minciu Sodas, you gave me the opportunity to
>> >>>> investigate ideas about teachers and learners and ICT - the changing
>> >>>> roles - emerging systems of education in the 21st century. That
>> >>>> interest (theoretical and practical) is still lurking and developing
>> >>>> in my practical work with dadamac and my experiments at dadamac.net
>> >>>> <http://dadamac.net>, posterous and elsewhere.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Your email ends "Who would like to learn about learning? along with me?"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Maybe it would be good to explore further with each other our
>> >>>> overlapping interests in learning about learning.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pamela
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >>>> From: *Andrius Kulikauskas* <ms@... <mailto:ms@...>>
>> >>>> Date: 2011/3/25
>> >>>> Subject: [livingbytruth] Seymour Papert and learning to learn/think
>> >>>> To: learningfromeachother <learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com
>> >>>> <mailto:learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com>>,
>> >>>> mathfuture@googlegroups.com <mailto:mathfuture@googlegroups.com>,
>> >>>> livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com <mailto:livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I wrote this for another group. Perhaps it will spark ideas. Andrius
>> >>>> Kulikauskas
>> >>>> ------------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Seymour Papert's work is popular in Lithuania. I'm glad that you've
>> >>>> inspired me to learn more how remarkable he is. Still,I think we're
>> >>>> just in the early days of "constructionist" learning, as he called it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm curious why you focus on teaching kids rather than adults to
>> >>>> learn/think. I feel as if there are two camps:
>> >>>> * People who want to teach children. They consider it the optimal age
>> >>>> to teach because it keeps children out of trouble, gives them something
>> >>>> to do, and most adults aren't teachable, especially if they haven't been
>> >>>> taught as children, or they aren't competent or interested to teach or
>> >>>> encourage their children.
>> >>>> * People who want to teach adults. They consider it the optimal age
>> >>>> because adults can learn from each other as (possible) equals (or
>> >>>> unequals), the learning can be voluntary, and it can develop a shared
>> >>>> culture. Whereas children often don't need to be taught, they can learn
>> >>>> many things haphazardly, almost automatically, and they are ultimately
>> >>>> influenced by adults who are interested (or not) in learning.
>> >>>> I'm strongly in the second camp, mostly because I like to learn myself
>> >>>> and I want to share what I'm learning, but from Minciu Sodas I know
>> >>>> dedicated people in the first camp, like Edward Cherlin (advocate of
>> >>>> OLPC and Sugar).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Papert, a mathematician, worked with developmental psychologist Jean
>> >>>> Piaget from 1958 to 1963
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_(learning_theory)
>> >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_%28learning_theory%29>
>> >>>> Piaget did many original experiments that made clear how children of
>> >>>> different ages rely on internal models for judging, for example, which
>> >>>> container holds more water, (say, the taller one), and that these models
>> >>>> grow more sophisticated in predictable ways. "Individual learners
>> >>>> construct mental models to understand the world around them". See
>> >>>> Norman Anderson's information integration theory for a rigorous critique
>> >>>> of Piaget's ideas and results (notably his belief that children can't
>> >>>> integrate concepts), pg. 202, "A Functional Theory of Cognition".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Papert developed "constructionist" learning:
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructionist_learning
>> >>>> "learning can happen most effectively when people are active in making
>> >>>> tangible objects in the real world"
>> >>>> * "learning as a reconstruction rather than as a transmission of
>> >>>> knowledge"
>> >>>> * "learning is most effective when part of an activity the learner
>> >>>> experiences as constructing a meaningful product"
>> >>>> which is related to John Dewey and "experiential education", where
>> >>>> experience is central, there is interaction (internal needs/goals of a
>> >>>> person) and continuity (from experience to experience).
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiential_education
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Papert was a proponent of bringing IT to the classrooms. He developed
>> >>>> the Logo programming language (for writing simple programs to manipulate
>> >>>> a Turtle on a screen, drawing pictures, thereby learn math, etc.) He
>> >>>> wrote "Mindstorms: Children Computers and Powerful Ideas" (1980). Lego
>> >>>> Mindstorms were named after the book. His Epistemology and Learning
>> >>>> Research Group was a forerunner of the MIT Media Lab. He influenced
>> >>>> Alan Kay, who led the team that developed Smalltalk at Xerox PARC, in
>> >>>> part for constructionist learning, and who later created Squeak. Papert
>> >>>> was hurt badly in an accident in 2006.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Some of the most crucial steps in mental growth are based not simply on
>> >>>> acquiring new skills, but on acquiring new administrative ways to use
>> >>>> what one already knows". "Papert's principle" described in Marvin
>> >>>> Minsky's "Society of the Mind":
>> >>>> http://www.papert.org/articles/PapertsPrinciple.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Edith Ackermann's paper seems like a good comparison of Piaget's and
>> >>>> Papert's views:
>> >>>>
http://learning.media.mit.edu/content/publications/EA.Piaget%20_%20Papert.pdf
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In 1997, I moved to Lithuania and met Kestas Augutis, a hermit living in
>> >>>> a swamp, but teaching kids computers (DOS, 286s, 386s) at the local
>> >>>> school. The "Mindstorms" book had been translated into Lithuania, and
>> >>>> the Logo language was and is popular:
>> >>>> http://www.logo.lt http://www.jkm.lt/LOGO/2011/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kestas had noteworthy visions of education, including that every child
>> >>>> should write three books:
>> >>>> * an encyclopedia, organized as a network
>> >>>> * a thesaurus, organized as a hierarchy
>> >>>> * a chronicle, organized as a sequence
>> >>>> These three books would be the outcome of the child's education, would
>> >>>> show that they were ready for the world, and would be what they would
>> >>>> build on throughout their life. He also thought every child should help
>> >>>> build a house, as he did with his father. Kestas died in 1998 at the
>> >>>> age of 43.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I liked his "three books" idea and, for my first project, I tried to
>> >>>> write software for organizing thoughts in those three ways. Then I
>> >>>> learned about TheBrain and MindManager and realized that there was a
>> >>>> need for an import/export format (or modeling language) for getting
>> >>>> collections of thoughts in and out of such tools. That led to Mindset
>> >>>> http://www.ms.lt/mindset.html in 2001. (I was told by HP Bristol Labs
>> >>>> that it was 10 years too early, but now in the age of Twitter, it might
>> >>>> be timely.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I made a list of examples to check whether information gets organized in
>> >>>> sequences, hierarchies and networks, and surprisingly, I found out that
>> >>>> it never does! Instead, it gets organized in pairs of these
>> >>>> structures. For example, a sequence of historical events quickly
>> >>>> becomes unwieldy and so it is reorganized into a hierarchy and becomes a
>> >>>> "chronicle". I observed six types:
>> >>>> * chronicle: sequence -> hierarchy
>> >>>> * evolution: hierarchy -> sequence
>> >>>> * catalog: hierarchy -> network
>> >>>> * atlas: network -> hierarchy
>> >>>> * canon: sequence -> network
>> >>>> * tour: network -> sequence
>> >>>> See: http://www.worknets.org/papers/organizingthoughts.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Is that a good start? Perhaps you can add some key ideas?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm very active in trying to understand how we figure things out,
>> >>>> http://www.selflearners.net/ways/
>> >>>> which is a key but neglected part of learning and thinking. It seems
>> >>>> that we are still in very early days to teach people how to learn and
>> >>>> think.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Children are likely operating on an implicit approach that is better
>> >>>> than anything we might explicitly teach them about learning. Compare
>> >>>> their natural language acquisition skills and our educational methods
>> >>>> for teaching language (or vision or faith or ...?)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm trying to do this from scratch. For example, what's worth
>> >>>> teaching? Last year I decided that what's worth teaching is right and
>> >>>> wrong. Reading, writing (if they are worthwhile) help us care about
>> >>>> others. Mathematics (if it is worthwhile) builds models which are to
>> >>>> some extent valid, and at some point invalid, and perhaps that helps us
>> >>>> appreciate the relationship of system and spirit. I still don't know.
>> >>>> Who knows? I'm working on my math ideas here:
>> >>>> http://www.gospelmath.com/Math/DeepIdeas
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Who dares to teach children? I prefer to experiment on myself.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Who would like to learn about learning? along with me?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Andrius
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Andrius Kulikauskas
>> >>>> http://www.selflearners.net
>> >>>> ms@... <mailto:ms@...>
>> >>>> (773) 306-3807
>> >>>> @selflearners
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Each letter sent to livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com
>> >>>> <mailto:livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com>
>> >>>> enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN whenever it does not state otherwise.
>> >>>> http://www.primarilypublicdomain.org/letter/
>> >>>> Please credit our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> livingbytruth-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>> >>>> <mailto:livingbytruth-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN
unless it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
 Please be kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
>> >>Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>> >>The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>> >>http://www.earthtreasury.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > A Focus is being made on having a wireless internet connection for the
>> > community to help them have a place for information handling and
>> > transfer. There is motive of taking risks to help the community Develop.
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
>> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>> http://www.earthtreasury.org/
>
>
>
>


--
Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
http://www.earthtreasury.org/

As most families become stressed with life, a woman with sound mind decided to
burn her two young sons because of small potion of food. The young miserable
children are now bed ridden at the local health centre. The mother is under
arrest but how can we help these two crying children, i know everybody is over
burden, over stressed, but famine is doing devastating impacts. To many in our
village accessabillity to food, no rainfall to us plant, how long is Lanina for
us? We better share the merger resources to help the needy access health,
education, food, and clothing! We should live in a world without leadership,
proffessionals, polictical capitalists, let's ' Help the people of Rusinga
Island' are some orgs to help? If there are, then we need your whatever helping
hand now.
Samwel.

On Sun Apr 24th, 2011 6:36 AM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:

>Hi Ed
>
>I love your vision. At some point I hope we are going to connect up
>properly. There is so much overlap in our interests, concerns and
>approaches. At present I'm not working directly with children - but I do
>still care about education.
>
>Pamela
>
>On 18 April 2011 05:49, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 03:36, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
>> > Edward,
>> > Your input here is beneficial as i currently work with children with
>> disability.
>>
>> I am legally disabled with ADHD, and my children have it, also. We
>> have struggled endlessly with schools over our different learning
>> styles. One tactic that my mother suggested successfully was to allow
>> me to do work that was different from the standard course, and harder.
>> This unfortunately was not acceptable at the schools my children
>> attended.
>>
>> But then, all children suffer from a grievous disability. They are
>> children, and adults do not take them seriously. I mean to change
>> that, with the help of a lot of others.
>>
>>
>> > Samwel.
>> >
>> > On Sat Apr 9th, 2011 6:49 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:
>> >
>> >>As I have learned it, the essence of Papert's Constructionism is that
>> >>children learn best by making things that enable them to improve their
>> >>internal models of the world, and then helping each other to make them
>> >>better. This goes beyond direct experience as passive spectators, or
>> >>even as active inquirers. It is also a model of how real-world work is
>> >>supposed to be done.
>> >>
>> >>There is a range of such activities, including making physical
>> >>objects, writing reports, creating portfolios, writing programs to
>> >>tell the computer what to do, writing programs to tell a robot what to
>> >>do, writing programs to make physical objects, and so on.
>> >>
>> >>I work with people, at One Laptop Per Child, Sugar Labs, and
>> >>elsewhere, who are designing software and content to implement such
>> >>ideas in the classroom. I find it essential to discuss ideas such as
>> >>Constructionism in the context of real applications. Otherwise we have
>> >>no way of knowing whether we are talking about the same subject.
>> >>
>> >>What versions of Constructionism have you seen? Most of the accounts I
>> >>have read are highly confused and one-sided. There is a strong
>> >>tendency to confuse Constructionism with Piaget's  Constructivism,
>> >>which is indeed part of Papert's proposal, or with any of the dozens
>> >>of other theories under the same or similar names
>> >>
>> >>You wrote
>> >>
>> >>>> when I respond to what is written about his work I respond
>> >>>> across the full spectrum - ranging from great appreciation and
>> >>>> enthusiasm for his ideas at one extreme to cynicism at the other.
>> >>
>> >>I would advise you to ignore what others have written about Papert's
>> >>work (even me), and to read his own writings.
>> >>
>> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructionist_learning
>> >>
>> >>Seymour Papert defined constructionism in a proposal to the National
>> >>Science Foundation entitled Constructionism: A New Opportunity for
>> >>Elementary Science Education
>> >>
>> >>http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=8751190
>> >>
>> >>as follows: "The word constructionism is a mnemonic for two aspects of
>> >>the theory of science education underlying this project. From
>> >>constructivist theories of psychology we take a view of learning as a
>> >>reconstruction rather than as a transmission of knowledge. Then we
>> >>extend the idea of manipulative materials to the idea that learning is
>> >>most effective when part of an activity the learner experiences as
>> >>constructing a meaningful product."
>> >>
>> >>As Papert and Idit Harel say at the start of Situating Constructionism,
>> >>
>> >>http://www.papert.org/articles/SituatingConstructionism.html
>> >>
>> >>"It is easy enough to formulate simple catchy versions of the idea of
>> >>constructionism; for example, thinking of it as 'learning-by-making'.
>> >>One purpose of this introductory chapter is to orient the reader
>> >>toward using the diversity in the volume to elaborate—to construct—a
>> >>sense of constructionism much richer and more multifaceted, and very
>> >>much deeper in its implications, than could be conveyed by any such
>> >>formula."
>> >>
>> >>I do not find Papert's ideas to be fundamentally new. I find his
>> >>implementation of those ideas to be unlike anything else in the world,
>> >>except for those of his students and co-workers. Not at the same level
>> >>as the differences between Copernicus and Newton on planetary orbits,
>> >>but of a similar kind.
>> >>
>> >>On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 00:21, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...> wrote:
>> >>> Pamela,
>> >>>
>> >>> Thank you for your letter. It's amazing, all that you've done. I'm glad
>> >>> that we might work together. You've written about your past. It would
>> be
>> >>> great if you wrote such a letter about your future. I should likewise.
>> >>> Meanwhile, I've written a list of activities for organizing the kingdom
>> >>> of heaven:
>> >>> http://www.selflearners.net/Culture/
>> >>> Those are all places where we might overlap. In particular, I'm
>> >>> documenting and sharing ways of "figuring things out". I'll send out a
>> >>> letter that I've written about how I'm doing that in math.
>> >>>
>> >>> Peace,
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrius
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrius Kulikauskas, http://www.selflearners.net, ms@..., (773)
>> >>> 306-3807, @selflearners
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> 2011.03.26 16:53, Pamela McLean rašė:
>> >>>> Hi Andrius <http://www.dadamac.net/network/andrius-kulikauskas> and
>> >>>> readers of my open letters at http://dadamac.posterous.com
>> >>>> <http://dadamac.posterous.com/> and LearningFromEachOther
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Andrius
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There are many interesting ideas and topics in your email copied
>> >>>> below. As I was reading it my mind responded to so much - much more
>> >>>> that I can possibly write here. I've highlighted areas I found of
>> >>>> particular interest and will just give some observations related to
>> >>>> them. Maybe we will discuss further some other time.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've been interested in ICT in education since way back when
>> >>>> "micro-computers" were just coming into existence (I was Pamela Fiddy
>> >>>> then, not McLean) - this means that I was a fan of Papert's work on
>> >>>> logo when it was happening. I was an early experimenter with his ideas
>> >>>> - and friends of mine were involved in making the various "floor
>> >>>> turtles" that brought the whole thing to life in ways beyond
>> >>>> representations on the screen.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I recognise and admire his work with computers in education as being
>> >>>> very innovative. I also observed in various schools just how much of
>> >>>> his ideas had actually filtered through into classroom practice. This
>> >>>> means when I respond to what is written about his work I respond
>> >>>> across the full spectrum - ranging from great appreciation and
>> >>>> enthusiasm for his ideas at one extreme to cynicism at the other.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> However when I read about Papert and that he developed
>> >>>> "constructionist learning" I have very mixed feeling. I know he was
>> >>>> innovative regarding computer use in education (those of us who were
>> >>>> around at the time of Mindstorms used to hang on his every word), but
>> >>>> I don't have the same feeling about him as an innovator regarding
>> >>>> education in general. The quotes that are ascribed to him regarding
>> >>>> education are good, but (from the viewpoint of an infant and junior
>> >>>> teacher trained in the 1970s) the educational theory seems to me to be
>> >>>> nothing special - good, but not particularly original - it just
>> >>>> reminds me of what we were taught to do.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The quotes you give tie in with the essays that we wrote at college on
>> >>>> such topics as "The child is the agent of his own learning" (that
>> >>>> title seems permanently lodged in my brain). "Constructionist
>> >>>> learning" ties in with our tutors' insistence that we should never
>> >>>> give children second-hand experience of anything that we could
>> >>>> conceivably have offered as a first-hand experience.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When I started to teach we weren't directed by the national
>> >>>> curriculum, and, although we were "in loco parentis" we weren't
>> >>>> constrained by a risk-averse "health and safety gone mad" culture. We
>> >>>> had all kinds of freedoms to take unexpected opportunities to learn.
>> >>>> For instance I remember when the firemen came unexpectedly to test the
>> >>>> fire-hydrant outside our school. I quickly took my class out to see
>> >>>> what was happening. The firemen were great and let us watch and ask
>> >>>> questions. It was a sunny day and so they made special "showers of
>> >>>> rain" for us with the hose so that we could see rainbows. It was one
>> >>>> more shared experience that the children and I could draw on in our
>> >>>> subsequent thinking and talking and making sense of our world. Isn't
>> >>>> that the kind of thins the "constructivists" are talking about - or am
>> >>>> I missing something?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I admit I haven't read that much about "constructivism" - but from
>> >>>> what I have read, I can't see what is so special and new about it
>> >>>> (though I'm ready to be shown). I'm not meaning to belittle Papert,
>> >>>> but it seems to me that there is a wrong emphasis. I think of other
>> >>>> great teachers too, and wonder if they are being equally recognised. I
>> >>>> think fro instance of Zoltan Dienes
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_P%C3%A1l_Dienes who was a
>> >>>> wonderful teacher - in theory and in practice. I remember a day of
>> >>>> watching him teach and the key thing that I learned from him. "Never
>> >>>> teach a generalisation". He believed we should give enough experience
>> >>>> of specific examples so that the children could then generate their
>> >>>> own generalisation - from which they could subsequently confidently
>> >>>> generate their own additional specific examples. (This process can't
>> >>>> be hurried - sometimes it can take months - and it is wonderful to
>> >>>> watch the "aha!" moment when a generalisation dawns).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regarding OLPC - I don't often join in the OLPC debate (partly because
>> >>>> I do respect some of the people involved and some of the good work
>> >>>> that has come out of the project) but, with you Andrius, I will share
>> >>>> my frustration at the way that some OLPC people seem to suggest they
>> >>>> are the only people in the world to see the benefit of enabling
>> >>>> children to learn by doing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> End of my rant.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I love the ideas of Kestas Augutis - all new to me - thank you. You
>> >>>> never cease to impress me with the range of interesting people that
>> >>>> you know
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm interested too in your sequences, hierarchies and networks - not
>> >>>> just for personal learning and/or bodies of knowledge, but also in
>> >>>> connection with how we structure knowledge online.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You and I definitely share an interest in thinking and learning. The
>> >>>> short title of my final dissertation at college was "Think child!" - I
>> >>>> explored what that meant in the context of various aspects of Bloom's
>> >>>> taxonomy of educational objectives
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_Taxonomy
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When I did my OU degree that "Think child!" dissertation and my
>> >>>> practical work as a teacher were both at the core of all my studies -
>> >>>> which related to decision making, the ordering of information,
>> >>>> systems, computers, artificial intelligence, and so on. That was
>> >>>> followed by my theoretical and practical investigations of the role of
>> >>>> computers in primary education.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Much later of course, in Minciu Sodas, you gave me the opportunity to
>> >>>> investigate ideas about teachers and learners and ICT - the changing
>> >>>> roles - emerging systems of education in the 21st century. That
>> >>>> interest (theoretical and practical) is still lurking and developing
>> >>>> in my practical work with dadamac and my experiments at dadamac.net
>> >>>> <http://dadamac.net>, posterous and elsewhere.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Your email ends "Who would like to learn about learning? along with
>> me?"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Maybe it would be good to explore further with each other our
>> >>>> overlapping interests in learning about learning.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pamela
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >>>> From: *Andrius Kulikauskas* <ms@... <mailto:ms@...>>
>> >>>> Date: 2011/3/25
>> >>>> Subject: [livingbytruth] Seymour Papert and learning to learn/think
>> >>>> To: learningfromeachother <learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com
>> >>>> <mailto:learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com>>,
>> >>>> mathfuture@googlegroups.com <mailto:mathfuture@googlegroups.com>,
>> >>>> livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com <mailto:livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I wrote this for another group. Perhaps it will spark ideas. Andrius
>> >>>> Kulikauskas
>> >>>> ------------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Seymour Papert's work is popular in Lithuania. I'm glad that you've
>> >>>> inspired me to learn more how remarkable he is. Still,I think we're
>> >>>> just in the early days of "constructionist" learning, as he called it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm curious why you focus on teaching kids rather than adults to
>> >>>> learn/think. I feel as if there are two camps:
>> >>>> * People who want to teach children. They consider it the optimal age
>> >>>> to teach because it keeps children out of trouble, gives them
>> something
>> >>>> to do, and most adults aren't teachable, especially if they haven't
>> been
>> >>>> taught as children, or they aren't competent or interested to teach or
>> >>>> encourage their children.
>> >>>> * People who want to teach adults. They consider it the optimal age
>> >>>> because adults can learn from each other as (possible) equals (or
>> >>>> unequals), the learning can be voluntary, and it can develop a shared
>> >>>> culture. Whereas children often don't need to be taught, they can
>> learn
>> >>>> many things haphazardly, almost automatically, and they are ultimately
>> >>>> influenced by adults who are interested (or not) in learning.
>> >>>> I'm strongly in the second camp, mostly because I like to learn myself
>> >>>> and I want to share what I'm learning, but from Minciu Sodas I know
>> >>>> dedicated people in the first camp, like Edward Cherlin (advocate of
>> >>>> OLPC and Sugar).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Papert, a mathematician, worked with developmental psychologist Jean
>> >>>> Piaget from 1958 to 1963
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_(learning_theory)
>> >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_%28learning_theory%29>
>> >>>> Piaget did many original experiments that made clear how children of
>> >>>> different ages rely on internal models for judging, for example, which
>> >>>> container holds more water, (say, the taller one), and that these
>> models
>> >>>> grow more sophisticated in predictable ways. "Individual learners
>> >>>> construct mental models to understand the world around them". See
>> >>>> Norman Anderson's information integration theory for a rigorous
>> critique
>> >>>> of Piaget's ideas and results (notably his belief that children can't
>> >>>> integrate concepts), pg. 202, "A Functional Theory of Cognition".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Papert developed "constructionist" learning:
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructionist_learning
>> >>>> "learning can happen most effectively when people are active in making
>> >>>> tangible objects in the real world"
>> >>>> * "learning as a reconstruction rather than as a transmission of
>> >>>> knowledge"
>> >>>> * "learning is most effective when part of an activity the learner
>> >>>> experiences as constructing a meaningful product"
>> >>>> which is related to John Dewey and "experiential education", where
>> >>>> experience is central, there is interaction (internal needs/goals of a
>> >>>> person) and continuity (from experience to experience).
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiential_education
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Papert was a proponent of bringing IT to the classrooms. He developed
>> >>>> the Logo programming language (for writing simple programs to
>> manipulate
>> >>>> a Turtle on a screen, drawing pictures, thereby learn math, etc.) He
>> >>>> wrote "Mindstorms: Children Computers and Powerful Ideas" (1980). Lego
>> >>>> Mindstorms were named after the book. His Epistemology and Learning
>> >>>> Research Group was a forerunner of the MIT Media Lab. He influenced
>> >>>> Alan Kay, who led the team that developed Smalltalk at Xerox PARC, in
>> >>>> part for constructionist learning, and who later created Squeak.
>> Papert
>> >>>> was hurt badly in an accident in 2006.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Some of the most crucial steps in mental growth are based not simply
>> on
>> >>>> acquiring new skills, but on acquiring new administrative ways to use
>> >>>> what one already knows". "Papert's principle" described in Marvin
>> >>>> Minsky's "Society of the Mind":
>> >>>> http://www.papert.org/articles/PapertsPrinciple.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Edith Ackermann's paper seems like a good comparison of Piaget's and
>> >>>> Papert's views:
>> >>>>
>> http://learning.media.mit.edu/content/publications/EA.Piaget%20_%20Papert.pdf
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In 1997, I moved to Lithuania and met Kestas Augutis, a hermit living
>> in
>> >>>> a swamp, but teaching kids computers (DOS, 286s, 386s) at the local
>> >>>> school. The "Mindstorms" book had been translated into Lithuania, and
>> >>>> the Logo language was and is popular:
>> >>>> http://www.logo.lt http://www.jkm.lt/LOGO/2011/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kestas had noteworthy visions of education, including that every child
>> >>>> should write three books:
>> >>>> * an encyclopedia, organized as a network
>> >>>> * a thesaurus, organized as a hierarchy
>> >>>> * a chronicle, organized as a sequence
>> >>>> These three books would be the outcome of the child's education, would
>> >>>> show that they were ready for the world, and would be what they would
>> >>>> build on throughout their life. He also thought every child should
>> help
>> >>>> build a house, as he did with his father. Kestas died in 1998 at the
>> >>>> age of 43.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I liked his "three books" idea and, for my first project, I tried to
>> >>>> write software for organizing thoughts in those three ways. Then I
>> >>>> learned about TheBrain and MindManager and realized that there was a
>> >>>> need for an import/export format (or modeling language) for getting
>> >>>> collections of thoughts in and out of such tools. That led to Mindset
>> >>>> http://www.ms.lt/mindset.html in 2001. (I was told by HP Bristol Labs
>> >>>> that it was 10 years too early, but now in the age of Twitter, it
>> might
>> >>>> be timely.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I made a list of examples to check whether information gets organized
>> in
>> >>>> sequences, hierarchies and networks, and surprisingly, I found out
>> that
>> >>>> it never does! Instead, it gets organized in pairs of these
>> >>>> structures. For example, a sequence of historical events quickly
>> >>>> becomes unwieldy and so it is reorganized into a hierarchy and becomes
>> a
>> >>>> "chronicle". I observed six types:
>> >>>> * chronicle: sequence -> hierarchy
>> >>>> * evolution: hierarchy -> sequence
>> >>>> * catalog: hierarchy -> network
>> >>>> * atlas: network -> hierarchy
>> >>>> * canon: sequence -> network
>> >>>> * tour: network -> sequence
>> >>>> See: http://www.worknets.org/papers/organizingthoughts.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Is that a good start? Perhaps you can add some key ideas?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm very active in trying to understand how we figure things out,
>> >>>> http://www.selflearners.net/ways/
>> >>>> which is a key but neglected part of learning and thinking. It seems
>> >>>> that we are still in very early days to teach people how to learn and
>> >>>> think.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Children are likely operating on an implicit approach that is better
>> >>>> than anything we might explicitly teach them about learning. Compare
>> >>>> their natural language acquisition skills and our educational methods
>> >>>> for teaching language (or vision or faith or ...?)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm trying to do this from scratch. For example, what's worth
>> >>>> teaching? Last year I decided that what's worth teaching is right and
>> >>>> wrong. Reading, writing (if they are worthwhile) help us care about
>> >>>> others. Mathematics (if it is worthwhile) builds models which are to
>> >>>> some extent valid, and at some point invalid, and perhaps that helps
>> us
>> >>>> appreciate the relationship of system and spirit. I still don't know.
>> >>>> Who knows? I'm working on my math ideas here:
>> >>>> http://www.gospelmath.com/Math/DeepIdeas
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Who dares to teach children? I prefer to experiment on myself.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Who would like to learn about learning? along with me?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Andrius
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Andrius Kulikauskas
>> >>>> http://www.selflearners.net
>> >>>> ms@... <mailto:ms@...>
>> >>>> (773) 306-3807
>> >>>> @selflearners
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Each letter sent to livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com
>> >>>> <mailto:livingbytruth@yahoogroups.com>
>> >>>> enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN whenever it does not state otherwise.
>> >>>> http://www.primarilypublicdomain.org/letter/
>> >>>> Please credit our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> livingbytruth-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>> >>>> <mailto:livingbytruth-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN
>> unless it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
Please be kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
>> >>Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>> >>The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>> >>http://www.earthtreasury.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>>
>> >
>> > A Focus is being made on having a wireless internet connection for the
>> > community to help them have a place for information handling and
>> > transfer. There is motive of taking risks to help the community Develop.
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
>> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>> http://www.earthtreasury.org/
>>
>>
>>

Dear Friends,

This is a very sad day, yet also a celebratory one...this is Maria Agnese's
birthday. I received a "reminder" from Facebook, where she still has a page, and
hopefully many of us will post here, there, and elsewhere in her honor and
memory.

Today is also World Malaria Day, a poignant and wholly-fitting (if "eerie")
conjunction, as I gather Maria Agnese passed away from malaria-related
complications.

Malaria is one of the worst scourges and killers around the planet, so let's all
take time if we can to educate and be active around this topic. Perhaps we can
have a discussion in our forums and at Dadamac about that, especially in terms
of being helpful in some kind of project or way.

With love to our dear friend, and to all, and blessings always, Janet

Ok Andrius,
You think mathmatically and very knowledgeable. Think of my potrait as a  grass
root community agent whether poor or wealthy. I mastered this from Phillipians
4:10-12. I do support your vision/dream but my modem failed i have to buy
another and would communicate effectively.
I see a healther adventure!
Samwel.

On Sun May 8th, 2011 9:51 AM Etc/GMT+12 ms@... wrote:

>moderators note: see my intro to the last post. We really should stick to the
group theme here, Andrius. It is always possible to link to the personal
endavours and whereabouts, but in context. Permanent crossposting is the death
of good lists. Thank you for consideration. How can "Self Learners" thrive in
villages?  - Franz
>------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>I've figured out what I'd like to offer to those who crowdfund me.  Thank
>you to Pamela McLean, Ben de Vries and Perry Recker for helpful
>conversations.
>
>My project is: "Self-Portraits of Self-Learners".
>
>* I'm sharing and documenting the hundreds of ways that I've figured
>things out in my quest to know everything and in my life.
>* I'm sharing and documenting thousands of ways that others have figured
>things out in various domains such as math, science, business, law,
>medicine, agriculture, government, faith, arts, music, theater and many
>more.
>* I'm describing a "House of Knowledge" of 24 "rooms" that presents all of
>these ways and everything I know.  http://www.selflearners.net/ways/
>* I'm thereby creating a self-portait of myself as a self-learner.  I'm
>using diagrams, texts, anecdotes, audio, video, drawings, paintings,
>music, all stored in a database and presented through an online interface.
>* I'm working with others to portray them as self-learners.  They could be
>you, your spouse, mother, father, grandmother, elder, child or friend or
>pastor, somebody who works for you, who you invest in, who you cherish or
>would vote for, who mentors you, connects you or has made a difference in
>your life.
>* I'm assembling a panel of expert self-learners who provide insight
>regarding their favorite domains.
>* I'm nurturing a community of self-learners who want to learn the "House
>of Knowledge" and its many ways of figuring things out.
>* I'm fostering a culture of self-learners who share values, questions,
>dreams and truths.
>
>I offer the following rewards to those who contribute.  You means "you" or
>somebody you love!
>
>* ($1) Vote on what I should research or clarify.  Support others with
>your votes.  They can then use your votes towards the gifts below. You get
>1 vote for every $1 you contribute!
>* ($10) Give me a term or concept or anecdote or story. I will place it
>for you within the "House of Knowledge".  In this way, you can translate
>back-and-forth between your terms, my terms and other terms.
>* ($20) Download e-book versions of the "House of Knowledge".
>* ($30) Include your profile in the "House of Knowledge", your answers to
>four questions: What is your deepest value in life? What is a question
>that you don't know the answer to, but wish to answer? What is your
>dream-in-life? What is something that you know, and how did you figure it
>out?
>* ($40) Send a CD-ROM version of the "House of Knowledge" to anywhere in
>the world.
>* ($50) Given a page from a book or scripture, I will note ways of
>figuring things out that help you understand the meaning.
>* ($60) I will write a blog post for your blog as your special guest!
>* ($80) Given a question in life, I will sketch out a practical
>investigation for you to come up with a definite answer.
>* ($100) I will coach you to use the "House of Knowledge" for your
>investigations, both personally and in a group through Skype conference
>calls, email groups, chats, Twitter.
>* ($200) I will send you my oil pastel sketch of you as a superhero based
>on your deepest value in life!  See, for example:
>http://www.gospelmath.com/Gospel/ValuesSuperHeroes
>* ($300) Create a video Skype interview of your answers to my 12
>questions.  Here's an excerpt from my interview with Jerry Michalski:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhU8JJLwI8Q
>* ($400) Lead a talk or workshop online or onsite (if you provide travel
>and accommodations).
>* ($500) Design a game with original artwork and coaching by Skype to help
>you learn what you want to learn and then teach it!
>* ($1,000) Work with you to express your dream-in-life, write it down, get
>feedback from my panel of expert self-learners, research helpful contacts,
>and visualize it with painting, music, video, poetry, drama and other
>arts.
>* ($2,000) Document and share your ways of figuring things out based on
>your anecdotes, writings and video Skype interviews with you. We'll find
>ways that match every one of the 24 rooms!
>* ($3,000) Train you to document a domain with the "house of knowledge".
>* ($5,000) Document 100+ methods in a domain such as law, medicine, art,
>including an executive summary and diagram "cheat sheet".
>
>All of the work above will be public, in the Public Domain,
>copyright-free, for all to share freely.
>
>I'm seeking $15,000.  I envisage this as a one-year project.  The money
>will provide me with six months of income.  Meanwhile, I can also do other
>work and develop this further as a business.
>
>I will invite church communities to do this with me as fundraisers.  For
>example, a church might raise $2,000 for me to visualize somebody's
>dream-in-life, and then I would take $1,000 and the church would keep the
>other $1,000.
>
>My panel of expert self-learners will get, for free, the services above
>that they desire.  If I am able to make this work as a business, then I
>envision that we'll refer each other to paid clients.
>
>How do we like this?
>
>Any thoughts? How might I improve this?
>
>Who might like to be in my panel of expert learners!?
>
>Pam, thank you for our conversation, which sparked the idea of me doing
>your "philosophical portrait".  As you see, we could find others who might
>contribute to that, but it's most helpful that you might "sit" for me!
>Thank you to Ben for thinking up the panel of expert self-learners.  Thank
>you to Perry for thinking up having me help understand passages and link
>our own terms to the House of Knowledge.  This is the kind of help that's
>especially helpful!
>
>Andrius
>
>Andrius Kulikauskas
>http://www.selflearners.net
>ms@...
>Twitter: @selflearners
>(773) 306-3807
>
>

Janet Feldman, Samwel Kongere,

Thank you for sharing my letter!  Samwel, yes, I would like to include you
in my panel as an expert self-learner for "grass roots community".  I
imagine this would mean, as your time and my time permits:
* You share your knowledge of how you've figured things out regarding
"grass roots community"
* I send you questions or interview you and help publish your ways of
figuring things out, your examples and stories
* I place your knowledge within my "House of Knowledge" so that it can be
understand within that framework and related to knowledge from other
people and in other domains
* I teach you about the "House of Knowledge" so that you can understand
it, we can communicate in terms of it, and you can apply it
* We provide feedback to each other to make sure that we understand each
other
* You share your knowledge freely and publicly with people who I direct to
you (who may be paying me)
* I recommend your services as a consultant and worker
* I provide you free coaching to use the "House of Knowledge" for your
investigations, both personally and in a group through Skype conference
calls, email groups, chats, Twitter.
* You help coach likewise other experts or people who may be paying me
* I provide you for free the services listed below and you do likewise
All of the above as your time and my time permits.  Samwel, is that
attractive for you? to be on my panel of expert self-learners?

The idea is that focusing on the "ways of figuring things out" and how
I've fit them together into a "House of Knowledge" are a basis for a
"universal language" that helps us understand each other and all manner of
domains of knowledge.

We have a culture where, for free, we build this commons, especially for
each other's "portaits" and "domains", and as you can, you help me serve
others who may pay me, and as I or you or others are able, we find
customers for you to serve likewise.  This knowledge base becomes an asset
for our own projects and also for making a living.

Janet, I welcome you to join my panel of expert self-learners, and I hope
you do, if such an arrangement might be attractive to you.  I understand
that presently you have no time available.  Yet thank you for forwarding
my letter!

P.S. http://www.kickstarter.com rejected my proposal below, and so I'm
looking for other crowdfunding websites.

Andrius

Andrius Kulikauskas
ms@...

------------------------

Ok Andrius,
You think mathmatically and very knowledgeable. Think of my potrait as a
grass root community agent whether poor or wealthy. I mastered this from
Phillipians 4:10-12. I do support your vision/dream but my modem failed i
have to buy another and would communicate effectively.
I see a healther adventure!
Samwel.

----------------

I've figured out what I'd like to offer to those who crowdfund me. Thank
you to Pamela McLean, Ben de Vries and Perry Recker for helpful
conversations.

My project is: "Self-Portraits of Self-Learners".

* I'm sharing and documenting the hundreds of ways that I've figured
things out in my quest to know everything and in my life.
* I'm sharing and documenting thousands of ways that others have figured
things out in various domains such as math, science, business, law,
medicine, agriculture, government, faith, arts, music, theater and many
more.
* I'm describing a "House of Knowledge" of 24 "rooms" that presents all of
these ways and everything I know. http://www.selflearners.net/ways/
* I'm thereby creating a self-portait of myself as a self-learner. I'm
using diagrams, texts, anecdotes, audio, video, drawings, paintings,
music, all stored in a database and presented through an online interface.
* I'm working with others to portray them as self-learners. They could be
you, your spouse, mother, father, grandmother, elder, child or friend or
pastor, somebody who works for you, who you invest in, who you cherish or
would vote for, who mentors you, connects you or has made a difference in
your life.
* I'm assembling a panel of expert self-learners who provide insight
regarding their favorite domains.
* I'm nurturing a community of self-learners who want to learn the "House
of Knowledge" and its many ways of figuring things out.
* I'm fostering a culture of self-learners who share values, questions,
dreams and truths.

I offer the following rewards to those who contribute. You means "you" or
somebody you love!

* ($1) Vote on what I should research or clarify. Support others with
your votes. They can then use your votes towards the gifts below. You get
1 vote for every $1 you contribute!
* ($10) Give me a term or concept or anecdote or story. I will place it
for you within the "House of Knowledge". In this way, you can translate
back-and-forth between your terms, my terms and other terms.
* ($20) Download e-book versions of the "House of Knowledge".
* ($30) Include your profile in the "House of Knowledge", your answers to
four questions: What is your deepest value in life? What is a question
that you don't know the answer to, but wish to answer? What is your
dream-in-life? What is something that you know, and how did you figure it
out?
* ($40) Send a CD-ROM version of the "House of Knowledge" to anywhere in
the world.
* ($50) Given a page from a book or scripture, I will note ways of
figuring things out that help you understand the meaning.
* ($60) I will write a blog post for your blog as your special guest!
* ($80) Given a question in life, I will sketch out a practical
investigation for you to come up with a definite answer.
* ($100) I will coach you to use the "House of Knowledge" for your
investigations, both personally and in a group through Skype conference
calls, email groups, chats, Twitter.
* ($200) I will send you my oil pastel sketch of you as a superhero based
on your deepest value in life! See, for example:
http://www.gospelmath.com/Gospel/ValuesSuperHeroes
* ($300) Create a video Skype interview of your answers to my 12
questions. Here's an excerpt from my interview with Jerry Michalski:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhU8JJLwI8Q
* ($400) Lead a talk or workshop online or onsite (if you provide travel
and accommodations).
* ($500) Design a game with original artwork and coaching by Skype to help
you learn what you want to learn and then teach it!
* ($1,000) Work with you to express your dream-in-life, write it down, get
feedback from my panel of expert self-learners, research helpful contacts,
and visualize it with painting, music, video, poetry, drama and other
arts.
* ($2,000) Document and share your ways of figuring things out based on
your anecdotes, writings and video Skype interviews with you. We'll find
ways that match every one of the 24 rooms!
* ($3,000) Train you to document a domain with the "house of knowledge".
* ($5,000) Document 100+ methods in a domain such as law, medicine, art,
including an executive summary and diagram "cheat sheet".

All of the work above will be public, in the Public Domain,
copyright-free, for all to share freely.

I'm seeking $15,000. I envisage this as a one-year project. The money
will provide me with six months of income. Meanwhile, I can also do other
work and develop this further as a business.

I will invite church communities to do this with me as fundraisers. For
example, a church might raise $2,000 for me to visualize somebody's
dream-in-life, and then I would take $1,000 and the church would keep the
other $1,000.

My panel of expert self-learners will get, for free, the services above
that they desire. If I am able to make this work as a business, then I
envision that we'll refer each other to paid clients.

How do we like this?

Any thoughts? How might I improve this?

Who might like to be in my panel of expert learners!?

Pam, thank you for our conversation, which sparked the idea of me doing
your "philosophical portrait". As you see, we could find others who might
contribute to that, but it's most helpful that you might "sit" for me!
Thank you to Ben for thinking up the panel of expert self-learners. Thank
you to Perry for thinking up having me help understand passages and link
our own terms to the House of Knowledge. This is the kind of help that's
especially helpful!

Andrius

Andrius Kulikauskas
http://www.selflearners.net
ms@...
Twitter: @selflearners
(773) 306-3807

Andrius and Pam,
This is really impressive to learn about the knowledge of economy, if economy
can trickle from bottom to up. Then a local county farmer may smile
extraordinarily. Fine i figure and think you; both habour cross intercultural
philosophisocal ideas to equal knowledge infested in truth of living wonderful!.
I enjoyed reading your chat together very encouraging.
Andrius do you still at the St. Benedict churh choir? I enjoy a one week choir
camp at Nyamuga Special school  for children with disabillity where the children
had their most pleasure. Thank you both for your dreams of knowledge potraits.
Good day!
Peace!
Samwel.

On Wed May 11th, 2011 5:21 PM Etc/GMT+12 ms@... wrote:

>Pamela McLean and I spoke and chatted this week.  She sparked the idea
>that I do philosophical portraits.  She agreed to be my first "alpha
>customer".
>
>Pamela, today I read through your post:
>http://www.dadamac.net/blog/20110411/dont-share-idea-show-prototype
>and I noted 26 ways of figuring things out (!) that you reference, see:
>http://www.selflearners.net/ways/#1271
>I will collect more and try to relate them to the rooms of the House of
>Knowledge.  Also, I can interview you by Skype as you talk about them and
>other ways you think of. I'm especially curious what each way yielded for
>you.  For example, your way "don't share an idea - show a prototype" led
>to your online workspace Dadamacadamy.
>
>I also look forward to creating philosophical portraits for others who
>might like to learn my House of Knowledge system and be part of my panel
>of expert self learners, including Ben de Vries, Perry Recker and Samwel
>Kongere.
>
>Also, tomorrow I hope to set up at http://www.indiegogo.com my first
>crowdfunding initiative, which is to do a philosophical portrait of Jesus.
> I will seek $1,000 in one month's time.  I hope that there might be
>people who would like me to do that.  I've started on it already here:
>http://www.selflearners.net/ways/?d=Jesus
>
>Thank you, Pamela! and also for telling me about http://www.flattr.com
>which I think is a very sensible approach to micropayments and I've
>included a button at my directory http://www.selflearners.net/ways/
>
>Pamela, I appreciate very much your thoughts that "philosophical
>portraits" might be "CVs" for the interdisciplinary people, the specialist
>generalists like many of us who can understand specialists and help them
>understand each other, as you say, cross culturally.  Indeed, my goal with
>the House of Knowledge is to facilitate such translations of mindsets
>across domains and among people.
>
>Andrius Kulikauskas
>ms@...
>(773) 306-3807
>Twitter: @selflearners
>
>peace and reconciliation... adaptation to climate change... educational
>systems... http://www.flattr.com... a signal for direction... people?...
>philosophical portrait... very valuable, ties into the knowledge
>economy... people tended to have their CVs and their referees from their
>previous job... now what we need much more is... our trusted networks...
>what we're able to do... what we like to do... who we are... alternative
>to the CV... David Pinto could do with that kind of CV... various people
>in Coalition of the Willing... particularly people who straddle several
>disciplines... there was expected to be a need for such people... but
>people who succeeded previously where specialists... whereas people who
>have a done a bit of everything... specialist generalists... they can
>stand between people who are narrow specialists... they throw back some
>comments and the specialists say, yes, you understand... a system for
>cross cultural mediators... for specialist languages... a strong role
>now... particularly at developing new computer applications... computer
>specialists don't quite know what it is... that the users want to be
>doing... and the users don't understand the potentials and limitations...
>"I'm having to work for it instead of it having to work for me... because
>it wasn't designed properly"... you go from one culture to another... and
>people assume that everybody behaves one way... what people assume is
>normal but is culturally specific... creates all kinds of problems... when
>people go outside of their culture to work together... she's written about
>the role of the crosscultural mediator... trying to break into the
>academic arena... but it's incredibly difficult to do... have friends in
>academia... and some academics were editing a book... about pattern
>languages in education... offered a contribution... wrote about Teachers
>Talking... and what she extended from that... in crosscultural groups...
>as in with Minciu Sodas... where she learned... (her post-graduate
>studies!)... and she's very appreciative... Would dearly love somebody...
>"don't write an idea, show a prototype"... the Dadamac webspace... explain
>some of the things it illustrate... her interests are interwoven... and
>difficult to explain... like a glitter ball in a disco... with so many
>facets and mirrors... nobody has the time to go through the whole thing...
>show them one little facet... see themselves and their own interest... the
>House of Knowledge is a way of relating glitter balls... go inside the
>glitter ball through one of its facets... loved the name of the group,
>Orchard of Thoughts... each group was a tree... the wiki is what you
>planted them in... like trees dropping their leaves... and they are rooted
>in... and drawing from... and Andrius's role was the farmer... to help
>shape the individual trees... and crosspollinating... owner of the
>orchard... the availability of the chat room... was the air, the sunshine,
>the environment, water... Michael Miranda... in Chicago... some digital
>divide outreach that he does... between the haves and the have nots...
>like the philosophical portraits... because believes people will work
>through their digital history... and their trust networks... and find a
>way to encapsulate... what they can do... so when people want to swarm
>with other people... groping towards philosophical portraits...  a
>short-cut of getting to know people
>
>Dadamacadamy - Don't share an idea - show a prototype
>http://www.dadamac.net/blog/20110411/dont-share-idea-show-prototype
>
>Dadamacadamy - dream or reality - an action research project
>http://www.dadamac.net/blog/20110423/dadamacadamy-dream-or-reality-action-resea\
rch-project
>
>ref earning money - acting as consultants -  Why Dadamac? -  Dadamac - the
>Internet-enabled alternative to top-down development
>http://dadamac.posterous.com/dadamac-the-internet-enabled-alternative-to-t
>
>why we need collaboration - Pam - we want street lights
>http://www.dadamac.net/blog/20091015/pam-we-want-street-lights
>
>how I see the future - Future We Got - Earth Date Zero Plus 20 -
>http://www.coalitionblog.org/2010/11/the-future-we-got-%E2%80%93-earth-date-zer\
o-plus-twenty/...
>
>Pattern book - Case story
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZDetpZ2tjMlTVhjvUMCkdoORReZKtaSVBs1Nqtvi3k\
/edit?authkey=CJPv598K#
>
>Pattern: Course design and delivery at a distance.
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/190X5WO8s3vOTmWN4b0m_VgJcIdRuWKVd3-djGi4MKbg\
/edit?authkey=CK_v7eEG#
>
>Pattern: Cross-Cultural Mediator
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kjf2Qrq_D7jwmhTCYHR_pmgXCSPCHa-UOkzoDjB9mu4\
/edit?authkey=CPiylis#
>
>Pamela: thank you! ... thank you for listening and being interested ...
>and for the possibility of the philosophical portrait ... I have some
>thougths on how his fits into other dadamac things adn whreer you may like
>to slot in regarding all of that - perhaps we can explore that next time
>we chat
>
>
>

Hello Ed and Pam,
I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers
themselves.
  Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO  but the
children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not
satisfying. They should
  be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
Sam.

On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:

>Hi Ed
>
>Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
>post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
>and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
>
>Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
>
>   - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
>   - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
>
>Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
>We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
>and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
>(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
>I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
>that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
>lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
>Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
>
>BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
>is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
>"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
>rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate
>issue.
>
>I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
>opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
>centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
>"right answers" and include:
>
>   - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
>   - Learn to ask your own questions
>   - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
>   answer"
>   - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
>   answer"
>   - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
>   "not the right answer"
>   - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
>   together
>
>BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
>ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
>should touch on my reasons for reservations.
>
>I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
>practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
>publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant
>teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
>of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
>theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical
>about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
>initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
>general classroom practice later.
>
>The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
>to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
>gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
>each" for those children who do get them.  They have never come anywhere
>near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
>NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
>Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
>Digital technology in
>Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technology-\
africa>when
>asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
>question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
>that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
>publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
>days of the project.
>
>Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
>having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
>has made that possible for some.
>
>Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
>great .
>
>Pamela
>
>On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
>> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I learned
>> a
>> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
>> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
>>  We
>> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
>> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
>> lives
>> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning with
>> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
>> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
>>
>> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
>> lose our motivation? Education and society.
>>
>> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
>> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
>>
>> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
>> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
>>
>> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
>> Seligman
>>
>> (snip)

Thanks Ed.
Motivation is broad based, it is for all of us children, academic stakeholders,
infact every of us needs recognition while in most Africa schools it is based on
test- result oriented.

The main core business of learning is academic & education excellence, standard
improved,  skills maintained, volume of work where a problem is identified. We
should give the children what they desire and deserve.

For us to succeed we have to remember (1) our history, (2)committments in place,
(3) piriority and (4) a specific desired goal. Anyway, who wants to be a
failure! Infact nobody! Education is life.
Samwel.

On Tue Jun 21st, 2011 6:47 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:

>On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:41, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
>> Hello Ed and Pam,
>> I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore
computers themselves.
>>  Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but
the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not
satisfying. They should  be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
>> Sam.
>
>Nicholas Negroponte has compared this "Computer Literacy" approach
>with creating a room full of books and chairs and tables and pencils
>and paper, where children are allowed in once a week, but they cannot
>use any of it for classwork or homework. How many of them do you think
>would become literate?
>
>> On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Ed
>>>
>>>Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
>>>post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
>>>and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
>>>
>>>Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
>>>
>>>   - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
>>>  
http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
>>>   - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
>>>  
http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
>>>
>>>Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
>>>We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
>>>and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
>>>(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
>>>I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
>>>that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
>>>lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
>>>Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
>>>
>>>BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
>>>is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
>>>"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
>>>rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate
>>>issue.
>>>
>>>I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
>>>opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
>>>centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
>>>"right answers" and include:
>>>
>>>   - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
>>>   - Learn to ask your own questions
>>>   - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
>>>   answer"
>>>   - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
>>>   answer"
>>>   - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
>>>   "not the right answer"
>>>   - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
>>>   together
>>>
>>>BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
>>>ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
>>>should touch on my reasons for reservations.
>>>
>>>I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
>>>practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
>>>publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant
>>>teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
>>>of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
>>>theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical
>>>about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
>>>initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
>>>general classroom practice later.
>>>
>>>The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
>>>to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
>>>gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
>>>each" for those children who do get them.  They have never come anywhere
>>>near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
>>>NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
>>>Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
>>>Digital technology in
>>>Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technolog\
y-africa>when
>>>asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
>>>question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
>>>that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
>>>publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
>>>days of the project.
>>>
>>>Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
>>>having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
>>>has made that possible for some.
>>>
>>>Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
>>>great .
>>>
>>>Pamela
>>>
>>>On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
>>>> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I learned
>>>> a
>>>> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
>>>> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
>>>>  We
>>>> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
>>>> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
>>>> lives
>>>> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning
with
>>>> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
>>>> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
>>>>
>>>> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
>>>> lose our motivation? Education and society.
>>>>
>>>> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
>>>> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
>>>>
>>>> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
>>>> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
>>>>
>>>> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
>>>> Seligman
>>>>
>>>> (snip)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless
it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be
kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
>Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 07:45, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
> Thanks Ed.
> Motivation is broad based, it is for all of us children, academic
stakeholders, infact every of us needs recognition while in most Africa schools
it is based on test- result oriented.
>
> The main core business of learning is academic & education excellence,
standard improved,  skills maintained, volume of work where a problem is
identified.

The main core business of education has historically been to support
and preserve empires by systematically shutting out students from the
most important subjects, notably effective civics. The best and the
brightest were to be co-opted into the ruling class. Since former
colonies have achieved independence, they have almost all maintained
their colonial education systems, and just switched its allegiance to
a new ruling class.

None of this is in any way suited to the needs of a free people.

We now have the opportunity for students to contact each other, and to
bypass teachers, textbook and curriculum committees, and ruling
political parties in order to find out for themselves what is worth
learning. In this way we can create a new generation of free learning
materials to be made available to all children and to their friends
and relations.

> We should give the children what they desire and deserve.
>
> For us to succeed we have to remember (1) our history, (2)committments in
place, (3) piriority and (4) a specific desired goal. Anyway, who wants to be a
failure! Infact nobody! Education is life.
> Samwel.
>
> On Tue Jun 21st, 2011 6:47 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:
>
>>On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:41, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
>>> Hello Ed and Pam,
>>> I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore
computers themselves.
>>>  Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but
the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not
satisfying. They should  be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
>>> Sam.
>>
>>Nicholas Negroponte has compared this "Computer Literacy" approach
>>with creating a room full of books and chairs and tables and pencils
>>and paper, where children are allowed in once a week, but they cannot
>>use any of it for classwork or homework. How many of them do you think
>>would become literate?
>>
>>> On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Ed
>>>>
>>>>Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
>>>>post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
>>>>and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
>>>>
>>>>Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
>>>>
>>>>   - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
>>>>  
http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
>>>>   - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
>>>>  
http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
>>>>
>>>>Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
>>>>We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
>>>>and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
>>>>(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
>>>>I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
>>>>that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
>>>>lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
>>>>Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
>>>>
>>>>BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
>>>>is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
>>>>"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
>>>>rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate
>>>>issue.
>>>>
>>>>I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
>>>>opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
>>>>centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
>>>>"right answers" and include:
>>>>
>>>>   - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
>>>>   - Learn to ask your own questions
>>>>   - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
>>>>   answer"
>>>>   - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the
right
>>>>   answer"
>>>>   - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
>>>>   "not the right answer"
>>>>   - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
>>>>   together
>>>>
>>>>BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
>>>>ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
>>>>should touch on my reasons for reservations.
>>>>
>>>>I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
>>>>practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
>>>>publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant
>>>>teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
>>>>of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
>>>>theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical
>>>>about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
>>>>initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
>>>>general classroom practice later.
>>>>
>>>>The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
>>>>to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
>>>>gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
>>>>each" for those children who do get them.  They have never come anywhere
>>>>near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
>>>>NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
>>>>Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
>>>>Digital technology in
>>>>Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technolo\
gy-africa>when
>>>>asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
>>>>question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
>>>>that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
>>>>publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
>>>>days of the project.
>>>>
>>>>Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
>>>>having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
>>>>has made that possible for some.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
>>>>great .
>>>>
>>>>Pamela
>>>>
>>>>On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
>>>>> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I
learned
>>>>> a
>>>>> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
>>>>> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
>>>>>  We
>>>>> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
>>>>> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
>>>>> lives
>>>>> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning
with
>>>>> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
>>>>> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
>>>>> lose our motivation? Education and society.
>>>>>
>>>>> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
>>>>> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
>>>>>
>>>>> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
>>>>> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
>>>>>
>>>>> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
>>>>> Seligman
>>>>>
>>>>> (snip)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless
it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be
kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
>>Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>>The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>>http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> A Focus is being made on having a wireless internet connection for the
> community to help them have a place for information handling and
> transfer. There is motive of taking risks to help the community Develop.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



--
Edward Mokurai
(默雷/धर�ममेघशब�दगर�ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر
ج) Cherlin
Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks