methanehydrateclub : Messages : 1233-1262 of 2650

Again, here is the link discussed.

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/

How about a different analogy. A wire.

A wire is thin looking yet can carry a huge amount of current. That
distortion of winds, even a lack of winds in the context of winds,
along that small path is very EMF significant, because these are the
warmest waters and the impedence (Z) through those waters would be
reduced.

Functionally, the difference between an El Nino and this is you have
a EMF wave generator as opposed to a very broad area where EMF from
ocean up would be negitive. The later is going to result in cirrus
enhancement worldwide, the former to storm pulses in the region that
feedback cooling (the storms take heat energy from SSTs) to the mid
tropics.

BUT, from the perspective of EMF trying to go from the W. Pac to the
E. Pac, if there is an El Nino, a charge accumulation is going to
have a really difficult time moving from the West if there isn't that
"wire" with currents, or lack of currents, going against it.  That is
because the movement against its direction increases impedence AND
creates a situation where if there is a current it gets directed
upwards.  OTOH, if it exists and inducts in no particular direction
or downwards with a vector, the current will continue along the
equator.  Downward vectors, understand, will have to deal with a cold
ocean that is not conductive, so a certain about of that induction
down really means charges just accumulate, I suspect accumulate
chemically.

This is another reason why CO2 uptake differs during ENSO.  Because
of these EMF implications.

That "sliver" is very critical.  It may not appear on certain days.
Right now we are SOI neg so it might not appear--but hey, that's why
there are no tropical storms brewing in the Atlantic!

--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> I don't see the "the counter wind--that slight sliver of  going the
> other way."  All the cold SST's show a North West heading current.
> Fred
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "mike" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > Oh, I agree with that.  If you have cold anomalies, you can see
how
> there
> > would be less induction and hence world wide colder temperatures
> from
> > less EMF neg.  If it is warm the whole region cooks as electrons
> explode
> > to the ionosphere.
> >
> > But what I am talking about is the counter wind--that slight
sliver
> of
> > going the other way.  You see it as less of vector going west to
> east as
> > you see a LACK of vector going west.
> >
> > I think that sliver is important from an EMF standpoint to make a
> place
> > for protons from fair weather to make Doran waves.  Get it?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fredwx <no_reply@y...>
> > To: methanehydrateclub@y...
> > Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:25:21 -0000
> > Subject: [Methane Hydrate Club] Re: Chris and GOM low--Doran wave
> ends
> > threat to Florida
> >
> > > <html><body>
> > >
> > >
> > > <tt>
> > > What I saw in that link  [ http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/ ] is
> that the
> > winds over the western section <BR>
> > > (where the coldest SST's are off Peru) roughly the same as the
> <BR>
> > > surface ocean currents (from the SE towards the NW)<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
> > > wrote:<BR>
> > > > Fred, <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > That's a great question.� It took me an hour to refind this
> > > damn <BR>
> > > link <BR>
> > > > and I hope you appreciate this because I am busy right now and
> > > <BR>
> > > lot's <BR>
> > > > of people are starting to ask questions.� Understand it isn't
> > > all <BR>
> > > > about induction by current and it can even be the absence of
it
> > > <BR>
> > > > because SSTs and biology underneath the oceans impact an EMF
> <BR>
> > > concept <BR>
> > > > called impedence (Z), where EMF concepts like capacitance,
<BR>
> > > resistance <BR>
> > > > as well as induction come into play.<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Anyway, here is that damn ENSO link:<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/">http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/</a>
> <
> > > BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > What I want you to note is that there is a line of winds that
go
> > > <BR>
> > > > counter all the way to the terresphere and if that current is
in
> > > <BR>
> > > > general going N/S that wind can cause a counter EMF.� This is
> > > some <BR>
> > > > rough science!!<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > +++++++++++++<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > yourself? <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://www.newage.com.au/ufo/haarp.html">http://www.newage.com.a
> u
> > > /ufo/haarp.html</a> <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <a
> > >
> href="http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/">http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/</a>
> > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Tom Skinner talks about my background as a lawyer. I suppose
it
> > > <BR>
> > > isn't <BR>
> > > > Princeton, but I also had EMF training in the military. And
> secret
> > > <BR>
> > > > clearances. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > I now am hesitating to respond to this question. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > But I am going to sound off anyway. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Let's just say what I now suspect. I suspect that HAARP grew
not
> > > <BR>
> > > from <BR>
> > > > an idea that we could control weather on a battle field but
> that a
> > > <BR>
> > > > nuke war would cause problems in the ionosphere that upset
> weather
> > > <BR>
> > > > and climate, and so that it was designed as a way of dealing
> with
> > > <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > realities of a nuke war. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > The reason that HAARP probably isn't an effective way of
> > > modulating <BR>
> > > > climate is the dominate EMF features involve huge areas and
<BR>
> > > specific <BR>
> > > > and moving targets. Building dams and putting huge quantities
of
> > > <BR>
> > > CO2 <BR>
> > > > into the biosphere is the type of activity that starts to
causes
> > > <BR>
> > > > changes, not local pulses of EMF in Alaska. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > BTW, I note that there is a member of our yahoo group who
calls
> > > <BR>
> > > > himself Dr. Telsa--from Alaska. Telsa is a unit measure of
EMF.
> > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > ++++++++++++++ <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > So, Fred, a tropical low passed Florida and became a
depression
> > > <BR>
> > > along <BR>
> > > > the EMF insulated Gulf Stream from hydrate activity. There is
> also
> > > <BR>
> > > a <BR>
> > > > east to west movement of Gulf Stream winds and currents. The
low
> > > <BR>
> > > > dumped more rain on Florida and then has turned to a tropical
> <BR>
> > > > depression. While it isn't a named TS as my first call--an
early
> > > <BR>
> > > > stalling and flooding TS to hit between the Mississippi delta
> and
> > > <BR>
> > > > Florida--given the part "El Nino" SOI winds and the
> > > EMF/shearing <BR>
> > > wind <BR>
> > > > conditions this brings, it wasn't too bad a call. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://www.longpaddock.qld.gov.au/SeasonalClimateOutlook/Souther
> n
> > >
>
Oscil">http://www.longpaddock.qld.gov.au/SeasonalClimateOutlook/Southe
> r
> > > nOscil</a><BR>
> > > > lationIndex/30DaySOIValues/ <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Date Tahiti Darwin Daily** 30 day 90 day <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 10-Jul-2002 1014.90 1013.60 2.10 -5.69 -8.68 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 11-Jul-2002 1014.84 1013.10 4.80 -6.01 -8.59 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 12-Jul-2002 1014.90 1012.75 7.30 -6.16 -8.47 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 13-Jul-2002 1014.76 1013.10 4.30 -6.66 -8.43 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 14-Jul-2002 1013.83 1013.05 -1.00 -7.94 -8.44 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 15-Jul-2002 1012.88 1015.10 -19.50 -9.86 -8.66 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > The SOI has gone back negative, now that Chris has moved to
> colder
> > > <BR>
> > > > waters. What is interesting is how Chris sent a Doran wave
that
> > > <BR>
> > > > reduced the cirrus cover over the central GOM as the first
> > > tropical <BR>
> > > > low of the season was forming, and how it formed in the first
> <BR>
> > > place, <BR>
> > > > with a localized shoreline thunderstorms from the east and
west
> of
> > > <BR>
> > > > the GOM--that cause a vacuum effect in the middle--even as the
> > > <BR>
> > > middle <BR>
> > > > was fair weather and proton receptive, and probably winds from
> > > west <BR>
> > > > to east inducting surface ocean currents against cirrus. Then
it
> > > <BR>
> > > went <BR>
> > > > east toward Florida in a disorganized manner, very elongated,
> <BR>
> > > > especially after Chris zapped it (convection over the Yukaton
> > > stole <BR>
> > > > the electrons in the ionosphere over the low), and this was
part
> > > of <BR>
> > > a <BR>
> > > > Doran wave that can be traced all the way to the counter
current
> > > in <BR>
> > > > the most tropical waters off the coast of Peru . . . to
Chris,
> to
> > > <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > Yukaton, and then to a ULL over Iowa and a line of
thunderstorms
> > > <BR>
> > > > south of that ULL, with a broken front further south of the
line
> > > <BR>
> > > > directly south of the ULL and north of the GOM warm core
surface
> > > <BR>
> > > low. <BR>
> > > > The strike link was really cool to watch, for those who were
> <BR>
> > > > following this discussion.� And for you Dr. Walt, that is
> > > what I <BR>
> > > have <BR>
> > > > time for--descriptions in real time from the strike links and
so
> > > <BR>
> > > > forth of how EMF move from fair weather and convection,
> especially
> > > <BR>
> > > in <BR>
> > > > the ionosphere, and cause forcings on ambiant winds.<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
> > > wrote:<BR>
> > > > > The equatorial counter current lies between 5-10 deg north
> > > <BR>
> > > latitude <BR>
> > > > > while the El Nino's warmest anomalies lie over the equator.
> > > <BR>
> > > > >� <BR>
> > > > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://www.acl.lanl.gov/GrandChal/GCM/currents.html">http://www.
> a
> > > cl.lanl.gov/GrandChal/GCM/currents.html</a><BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > The cold anomaly off Peru is occuring in currents that set
> > > from <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > > south-southeast towards the northwest then west-northwest,
> > > not <BR>
> > > west <BR>
> > > > > to east as you said so I am confused here.<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/data/anomnight.7
> .
> > >
>
13.20">http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/data/anomnight.
> 7
> > > .13.20</a><BR>
> > > > > 02.gif<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > Fred<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
> > > <mike@u...> wrote:<BR>
> > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
> > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:<BR>
> > > > > > > First, I am still uncertain what a Doran wave
> > > is.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > It has to do mostly with ion movements in the
> > > ionosphere, as <BR>
> > > > driven <BR>
> > > > > > by dry areas w/ fair weather positive to ground EMF and
> > > <BR>
> > > > convection <BR>
> > > > > > driven neg to ground.� If there is a burst of
> > > convective <BR>
> > > activity <BR>
> > > > > in <BR>
> > > > > > one area it will ripple out EMF wise.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > Here in Lutz (Tampa Bay area) we have over 2 inches
> > > of rain <BR>
> > > > from <BR>
> > > > > > that <BR>
> > > > > > > tropical disturbance but little wind.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > Little surface wind.� Stallers and flooders w/
> > > cirrus going <BR>
> > > > strong.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > >� As far as the currents off <BR>
> > > > > > > Peru, I believe they are more south to north than
> > > east to <BR>
> > > west.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > I agree, but then it goes west and it is coming from the
> > > west <BR>
> > > to <BR>
> > > > > east <BR>
> > > > > > along the Equatorial.� So ambiant winds can may it
> > > go either <BR>
> > > way--<BR>
> > > > > and <BR>
> > > > > > it hence becomes sensitive to flux and cummulated flux
> > > that <BR>
> > > cause <BR>
> > > > > > anomalies like this.� Those warm anomalies mean
> > > more east to <BR>
> > > west <BR>
> > > > > > winds.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > Fred <BR>
> > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y...,
> > > "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:<BR>
> > > > > > > > Below is a from another bb--a conversation
> > > between John <BR>
> > > > Lerch, <BR>
> > > > > a <BR>
> > > > > > > > physicist, and myself, this morning, about
> > > induction and <BR>
> > > > > > hurricanes:<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > Again, <BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > I agree w/ you that if you where ONLY talking
> > > about the <BR>
> > > > earth's <BR>
> > > > > > EMF <BR>
> > > > > > > > the induction produces a small magnetic
> > > field.<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > However, we are NOT.� We are talking
> > > about large local sub <BR>
> > > > > fields <BR>
> > > > > > > > from strikes and so forth.<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > Further, there are currents.�
> > > Example.� The Doran wave <BR>
> > > coming <BR>
> > > > > > from <BR>
> > > > > > > > the cold anomaly off the coast of Peru, where
> > > fair weather <BR>
> > > > > > protons <BR>
> > > > > > > > coming from the ionosphere are going to meet
> > > higher <BR>
> > > impedance <BR>
> > > > > (Z) <BR>
> > > > > > > > from the colder SSTS COMBINED w/ the wind and
> > > current <BR>
> > > > direction <BR>
> > > > > > > > moving west to east.� Then there is the
> > > induction of <BR>
> > > current <BR>
> > > > > from <BR>
> > > > > > > > southeast to northwest along the South Mexican
> > > border where <BR>
> > > > > there <BR>
> > > > > > > are <BR>
> > > > > > > > warm anomalies.� A Doran wave culminates
> > > in a named <BR>
> > > tropical <BR>
> > > > > > storm, <BR>
> > > > > > > > which itself has strong southeast to northeast
> > > winds right <BR>
> > > > now <BR>
> > > > > as <BR>
> > > > > > > we <BR>
> > > > > > > > discuss this.<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > Last night on TWC there was a five hour loop
> > > of sat <BR>
> > > pictures <BR>
> > > > > that <BR>
> > > > > > > > included this new E. Pac storm and a surface
> > > low in the <BR>
> > > GOM.� <BR>
> > > > > > What <BR>
> > > > > > > > happened as the E. Pac storm became a named
> > > storm, with <BR>
> > > > > > convection <BR>
> > > > > > > > flaring up near the low, a HUGE Doran wave
> > > moved charges in <BR>
> > > > the <BR>
> > > > > > > whole <BR>
> > > > > > > > region.� There was a huge area of
> > > convection flare up over <BR>
> > > > the <BR>
> > > > > > > > Yukatan and then that ripped electrons from
> > > the low over <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > > > GOM.� <BR>
> > > > > > > > Almost instantaniously, and you could see it
> > > from the <BR>
> > > loops, <BR>
> > > > > > > > convection during the warmest part of the day
> > > over a low <BR>
> > > over <BR>
> > > > > > warm <BR>
> > > > > > > > SSTs in the GOM stopped.� This, again, is
> > > explained by loss <BR>
> > > > of <BR>
> > > > > > > cirrus <BR>
> > > > > > > > enhancement and the IR/reflection balances and
> > > huge GHG <BR>
> > > > > > > differentials <BR>
> > > > > > > > that result as the water in the air changes in
> > > character.<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > To give you an idea how critical this is to
> > > ambiant air <BR>
> > > > > > movements, <BR>
> > > > > > > > one model called the GDFL had called for this
> > > tropical <BR>
> > > storm <BR>
> > > > to <BR>
> > > > > > > high <BR>
> > > > > > > > the panhandle of Florida as a CAT 3 storm--72
> > > hours from <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > > > > > forecast--which was 72 hours ago.� This
> > > is a good example <BR>
> > > of <BR>
> > > > > how <BR>
> > > > > > > the <BR>
> > > > > > > > EMF is THE forcing . . .<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > > > > > > > From: John Lerch <jlerch1@c...><BR>
> > > > > > > > To: Debate <Debate@l...><BR>
> > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:13:59 -0500<BR>
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: EMFs and ENSO/JAL<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > > Mike<BR>
> > > > > > > > > You refer to hurricanes as EMF
> > > inducing.� Of course<BR>
> > > > > > > > > there is induction.� The only thing
> > > you have no<BR>
> > > > > > > > > evidence to support is the notion that
> > > the motion of<BR>
> > > > > > > > > oceanic currents thru the earth's
> > > magnetic field<BR>
> > > > > > > > > induces a charge separation that
> > > continues for some<BR>
> > > > > > > > > substantial period of time before the
> > > electrostatic<BR>
> > > > > > > > > attraction pulls those charges back and
> > > before any such<BR>
> > > > > > > > > motion perpendicular to the oceanic
> > > current causes the<BR>
> > > > > > > > > electrical current to be deflected once
> > > again.� IOW not<BR>
> > > > > > > > > only does the electrostatic attraction
> > > immediately stop<BR>
> > > > > > > > > the charge separation but any separation
> > > that does<BR>
> > > > > > > > > start immediately goes into an
> > > orbital� cicular motion<BR>
> > > > > > > > > (of diameter about 1/10000 the diameter
> > > of an atom as I<BR>
> > > > > > > > > showed several posts ago) perpendicular
> > > to the magnetic<BR>
> > > > > > > > > field, effectively ending the charge
> > > separation.� JAL<BR>
> > > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> <
> > > BR>
> > > > > > > > _<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > </tt>
> > >
> > > <br>
> > >
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Reply | Messages in this Topic (11)

#1234

From: foryeshua1@...
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:42 am
Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] Re: Chris and GOM low--Doran wave ends threat to Florida

solarelectrojet

Pawn,  The wire analogy, reminds me of the under sea currents that were
described as taking down the oil drilling tower off New England, that
coincided with a destructive NorEaster in timing.  I can buy the
occurrence of electric flows actually taking their paths through fast
flowing undersea rivers.  That place somewhere between Greenland and
England where the water is strangely rough that has been photographed
from the air, could be the exit point of this current, at its North end
of its flow.  It is like an electric current to choose the best
conductance available to it.  Escaping at a Northern point into the air,
or to be attracted by an increased conductance point at the peak of a
Perigy Syzygy tide in a NorEaster in New England.  Why couldn't the
seemingly minute charges of certain areas due to the kinds of things you
are referring to be responded to by such flows.
         If such currents were connected by any sort of residual flow from
whatever steady currents exist, if nothing else might they be induced
from the movement of the rotation of the earth to cause primary flow like
you make a nail a magnet by winding a wire around it? At any rate if such
currents existed would they not heat up their paths with their electrical
conductance, and possibly pass through deep oceans that might be colder
over and around them?  Like the magma of the earth is hotter than its
crust, possibly because of electrical phenomena there. Could such a river
steal heat from one area by taking it through its flow to a destination
powered and guided by conductance? Could a "cold" place be there because
of the affects of these kinds of charge exchanges?
         Pawn,  I can conceive of the possibility that my reasonings are
more distractive than useful to what you are trying to describe.  If you
want me to go away please just tell me.  You will not be the first to
have done so. One of your first reasonings was that you thought your
group might be stimulated or helped in some way.  If I am becoming too
much, with too little I would appreciate truth.  Walter.

On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:37:20 -0000 "pawnfart" <mike@...> writes:
Again, here is the link discussed.

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/

How about a different analogy. A wire.

A wire is thin looking yet can carry a huge amount of current. That
distortion of winds, even a lack of winds in the context of winds,
along that small path is very EMF significant, because these are the
warmest waters and the impedance (Z) through those waters would be
reduced.

Functionally, the difference between an El Nino and this is you have
a EMF wave generator as opposed to a very broad area where EMF from
ocean up would be negitive. The later is going to result in cirrus
enhancement worldwide, the former to storm pulses in the region that
feedback cooling (the storms take heat energy from SSTs) to the mid
tropics.

BUT, from the perspective of EMF trying to go from the W. Pac to the
E. Pac, if there is an El Nino, a charge accumulation is going to
have a really difficult time moving from the West if there isn't that
"wire" with currents, or lack of currents, going against it.  That is
because the movement against its direction increases impedance AND
creates a situation where if there is a current it gets directed
upwards.  OTOH, if it exists and inducts in no particular direction
or downwards with a vector, the current will continue along the
equator.  Downward vectors, understand, will have to deal with a cold
ocean that is not conductive, so a certain about of that induction
down really means charges just accumulate, I suspect accumulate
chemically.

This is another reason why CO2 uptake differs during ENSO.  Because
of these EMF implications.

That "sliver" is very critical.  It may not appear on certain days.
Right now we are SOI neg so it might not appear--but hey, that's why
there are no tropical storms brewing in the Atlantic!

--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> I don't see the "the counter wind--that slight sliver of  going the
> other way."  All the cold SST's show a North West heading current.
> Fred
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "mike" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > Oh, I agree with that.  If you have cold anomalies, you can see
how
> there
> > would be less induction and hence world wide colder temperatures
> from
> > less EMF neg.  If it is warm the whole region cooks as electrons
> explode
> > to the ionosphere.
> >
> > But what I am talking about is the counter wind--that slight
sliver
> of
> > going the other way.  You see it as less of vector going west to
> east as
> > you see a LACK of vector going west.
> >
> > I think that sliver is important from an EMF standpoint to make a
> place
> > for protons from fair weather to make Doran waves.  Get it?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fredwx <no_reply@y...>
> > To: methanehydrateclub@y...
> > Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:25:21 -0000
> > Subject: [Methane Hydrate Club] Re: Chris and GOM low--Doran wave
> ends
> > threat to Florida
> >
> > > <html><body>
> > >
> > >
> > > <tt>
> > > What I saw in that link  [ http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/ ] is
> that the
> > winds over the western section <BR>
> > > (where the coldest SST's are off Peru) roughly the same as the
> <BR>
> > > surface ocean currents (from the SE towards the NW)<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
> > > wrote:<BR>
> > > > Fred, <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > That's a great question.  It took me an hour to refind this
> > > damn <BR>
> > > link <BR>
> > > > and I hope you appreciate this because I am busy right now and
> > > <BR>
> > > lot's <BR>
> > > > of people are starting to ask questions.  Understand it isn't
> > > all <BR>
> > > > about induction by current and it can even be the absence of
it
> > > <BR>
> > > > because SSTs and biology underneath the oceans impact an EMF
> <BR>
> > > concept <BR>
> > > > called impedence (Z), where EMF concepts like capacitance,
<BR>
> > > resistance <BR>
> > > > as well as induction come into play.<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Anyway, here is that damn ENSO link:<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/">http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/</a>
> <
> > > BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > What I want you to note is that there is a line of winds that
go
> > > <BR>
> > > > counter all the way to the terresphere and if that current is
in
> > > <BR>
> > > > general going N/S that wind can cause a counter EMF.  This is
> > > some <BR>
> > > > rough science!!<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > +++++++++++++<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > yourself? <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://www.newage.com.au/ufo/haarp.html">http://www.newage.com.a
> u
> > > /ufo/haarp.html</a> <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <a
> > >
> href="http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/">http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/</a>
> > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Tom Skinner talks about my background as a lawyer. I suppose
it
> > > <BR>
> > > isn't <BR>
> > > > Princeton, but I also had EMF training in the military. And
> secret
> > > <BR>
> > > > clearances. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > I now am hesitating to respond to this question. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > But I am going to sound off anyway. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Let's just say what I now suspect. I suspect that HAARP grew
not
> > > <BR>
> > > from <BR>
> > > > an idea that we could control weather on a battle field but
> that a
> > > <BR>
> > > > nuke war would cause problems in the ionosphere that upset
> weather
> > > <BR>
> > > > and climate, and so that it was designed as a way of dealing
> with
> > > <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > realities of a nuke war. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > The reason that HAARP probably isn't an effective way of
> > > modulating <BR>
> > > > climate is the dominate EMF features involve huge areas and
<BR>
> > > specific <BR>
> > > > and moving targets. Building dams and putting huge quantities
of
> > > <BR>
> > > CO2 <BR>
> > > > into the biosphere is the type of activity that starts to
causes
> > > <BR>
> > > > changes, not local pulses of EMF in Alaska. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > BTW, I note that there is a member of our yahoo group who
calls
> > > <BR>
> > > > himself Dr. Telsa--from Alaska. Telsa is a unit measure of
EMF.
> > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > ++++++++++++++ <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > So, Fred, a tropical low passed Florida and became a
depression
> > > <BR>
> > > along <BR>
> > > > the EMF insulated Gulf Stream from hydrate activity. There is
> also
> > > <BR>
> > > a <BR>
> > > > east to west movement of Gulf Stream winds and currents. The
low
> > > <BR>
> > > > dumped more rain on Florida and then has turned to a tropical
> <BR>
> > > > depression. While it isn't a named TS as my first call--an
early
> > > <BR>
> > > > stalling and flooding TS to hit between the Mississippi delta
> and
> > > <BR>
> > > > Florida--given the part "El Nino" SOI winds and the
> > > EMF/shearing <BR>
> > > wind <BR>
> > > > conditions this brings, it wasn't too bad a call. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://www.longpaddock.qld.gov.au/SeasonalClimateOutlook/Souther
> n
> > >
>
Oscil">http://www.longpaddock.qld.gov.au/SeasonalClimateOutlook/Southe
> r
> > > nOscil</a><BR>
> > > > lationIndex/30DaySOIValues/ <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Date Tahiti Darwin Daily** 30 day 90 day <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 10-Jul-2002 1014.90 1013.60 2.10 -5.69 -8.68 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 11-Jul-2002 1014.84 1013.10 4.80 -6.01 -8.59 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 12-Jul-2002 1014.90 1012.75 7.30 -6.16 -8.47 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 13-Jul-2002 1014.76 1013.10 4.30 -6.66 -8.43 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 14-Jul-2002 1013.83 1013.05 -1.00 -7.94 -8.44 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > 15-Jul-2002 1012.88 1015.10 -19.50 -9.86 -8.66 <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > The SOI has gone back negative, now that Chris has moved to
> colder
> > > <BR>
> > > > waters. What is interesting is how Chris sent a Doran wave
that
> > > <BR>
> > > > reduced the cirrus cover over the central GOM as the first
> > > tropical <BR>
> > > > low of the season was forming, and how it formed in the first
> <BR>
> > > place, <BR>
> > > > with a localized shoreline thunderstorms from the east and
west
> of
> > > <BR>
> > > > the GOM--that cause a vacuum effect in the middle--even as the
> > > <BR>
> > > middle <BR>
> > > > was fair weather and proton receptive, and probably winds from
> > > west <BR>
> > > > to east inducting surface ocean currents against cirrus. Then
it
> > > <BR>
> > > went <BR>
> > > > east toward Florida in a disorganized manner, very elongated,
> <BR>
> > > > especially after Chris zapped it (convection over the Yukaton
> > > stole <BR>
> > > > the electrons in the ionosphere over the low), and this was
part
> > > of <BR>
> > > a <BR>
> > > > Doran wave that can be traced all the way to the counter
current
> > > in <BR>
> > > > the most tropical waters off the coast of Peru . . . to
Chris,
> to
> > > <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > Yukaton, and then to a ULL over Iowa and a line of
thunderstorms
> > > <BR>
> > > > south of that ULL, with a broken front further south of the
line
> > > <BR>
> > > > directly south of the ULL and north of the GOM warm core
surface
> > > <BR>
> > > low. <BR>
> > > > The strike link was really cool to watch, for those who were
> <BR>
> > > > following this discussion.  And for you Dr. Walt, that is
> > > what I <BR>
> > > have <BR>
> > > > time for--descriptions in real time from the strike links and
so
> > > <BR>
> > > > forth of how EMF move from fair weather and convection,
> especially
> > > <BR>
> > > in <BR>
> > > > the ionosphere, and cause forcings on ambiant winds.<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
> > > wrote:<BR>
> > > > > The equatorial counter current lies between 5-10 deg north
> > > <BR>
> > > latitude <BR>
> > > > > while the El Nino's warmest anomalies lie over the equator.
> > > <BR>
> > > > >  <BR>
> > > > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://www.acl.lanl.gov/GrandChal/GCM/currents.html">http://www.
> a
> > > cl.lanl.gov/GrandChal/GCM/currents.html</a><BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > The cold anomaly off Peru is occuring in currents that set
> > > from <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > > south-southeast towards the northwest then west-northwest,
> > > not <BR>
> > > west <BR>
> > > > > to east as you said so I am confused here.<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > <a
> > >
>
href="http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/data/anomnight.7
> .
> > >
>
13.20">http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/data/anomnight.
> 7
> > > .13.20</a><BR>
> > > > > 02.gif<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > Fred<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
> > > <mike@u...> wrote:<BR>
> > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
> > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:<BR>
> > > > > > > First, I am still uncertain what a Doran wave
> > > is.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > It has to do mostly with ion movements in the
> > > ionosphere, as <BR>
> > > > driven <BR>
> > > > > > by dry areas w/ fair weather positive to ground EMF and
> > > <BR>
> > > > convection <BR>
> > > > > > driven neg to ground.  If there is a burst of
> > > convective <BR>
> > > activity <BR>
> > > > > in <BR>
> > > > > > one area it will ripple out EMF wise.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > Here in Lutz (Tampa Bay area) we have over 2 inches
> > > of rain <BR>
> > > > from <BR>
> > > > > > that <BR>
> > > > > > > tropical disturbance but little wind.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > Little surface wind.  Stallers and flooders w/
> > > cirrus going <BR>
> > > > strong.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > >  As far as the currents off <BR>
> > > > > > > Peru, I believe they are more south to north than
> > > east to <BR>
> > > west.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > I agree, but then it goes west and it is coming from the
> > > west <BR>
> > > to <BR>
> > > > > east <BR>
> > > > > > along the Equatorial.  So ambiant winds can may it
> > > go either <BR>
> > > way--<BR>
> > > > > and <BR>
> > > > > > it hence becomes sensitive to flux and cummulated flux
> > > that <BR>
> > > cause <BR>
> > > > > > anomalies like this.  Those warm anomalies mean
> > > more east to <BR>
> > > west <BR>
> > > > > > winds.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > Fred <BR>
> > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y...,
> > > "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:<BR>
> > > > > > > > Below is a from another bb--a conversation
> > > between John <BR>
> > > > Lerch, <BR>
> > > > > a <BR>
> > > > > > > > physicist, and myself, this morning, about
> > > induction and <BR>
> > > > > > hurricanes:<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > Again, <BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > I agree w/ you that if you where ONLY talking
> > > about the <BR>
> > > > earth's <BR>
> > > > > > EMF <BR>
> > > > > > > > the induction produces a small magnetic
> > > field.<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > However, we are NOT.  We are talking
> > > about large local sub <BR>
> > > > > fields <BR>
> > > > > > > > from strikes and so forth.<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > Further, there are currents.
> > > Example.  The Doran wave <BR>
> > > coming <BR>
> > > > > > from <BR>
> > > > > > > > the cold anomaly off the coast of Peru, where
> > > fair weather <BR>
> > > > > > protons <BR>
> > > > > > > > coming from the ionosphere are going to meet
> > > higher <BR>
> > > impedance <BR>
> > > > > (Z) <BR>
> > > > > > > > from the colder SSTS COMBINED w/ the wind and
> > > current <BR>
> > > > direction <BR>
> > > > > > > > moving west to east.  Then there is the
> > > induction of <BR>
> > > current <BR>
> > > > > from <BR>
> > > > > > > > southeast to northwest along the South Mexican
> > > border where <BR>
> > > > > there <BR>
> > > > > > > are <BR>
> > > > > > > > warm anomalies.  A Doran wave culminates
> > > in a named <BR>
> > > tropical <BR>
> > > > > > storm, <BR>
> > > > > > > > which itself has strong southeast to northeast
> > > winds right <BR>
> > > > now <BR>
> > > > > as <BR>
> > > > > > > we <BR>
> > > > > > > > discuss this.<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > Last night on TWC there was a five hour loop
> > > of sat <BR>
> > > pictures <BR>
> > > > > that <BR>
> > > > > > > > included this new E. Pac storm and a surface
> > > low in the <BR>
> > > GOM.  <BR>
> > > > > > What <BR>
> > > > > > > > happened as the E. Pac storm became a named
> > > storm, with <BR>
> > > > > > convection <BR>
> > > > > > > > flaring up near the low, a HUGE Doran wave
> > > moved charges in <BR>
> > > > the <BR>
> > > > > > > whole <BR>
> > > > > > > > region.  There was a huge area of
> > > convection flare up over <BR>
> > > > the <BR>
> > > > > > > > Yukatan and then that ripped electrons from
> > > the low over <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > > > GOM.  <BR>
> > > > > > > > Almost instantaniously, and you could see it
> > > from the <BR>
> > > loops, <BR>
> > > > > > > > convection during the warmest part of the day
> > > over a low <BR>
> > > over <BR>
> > > > > > warm <BR>
> > > > > > > > SSTs in the GOM stopped.  This, again, is
> > > explained by loss <BR>
> > > > of <BR>
> > > > > > > cirrus <BR>
> > > > > > > > enhancement and the IR/reflection balances and
> > > huge GHG <BR>
> > > > > > > differentials <BR>
> > > > > > > > that result as the water in the air changes in
> > > character.<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > To give you an idea how critical this is to
> > > ambiant air <BR>
> > > > > > movements, <BR>
> > > > > > > > one model called the GDFL had called for this
> > > tropical <BR>
> > > storm <BR>
> > > > to <BR>
> > > > > > > high <BR>
> > > > > > > > the panhandle of Florida as a CAT 3 storm--72
> > > hours from <BR>
> > > the <BR>
> > > > > > > > forecast--which was 72 hours ago.  This
> > > is a good example <BR>
> > > of <BR>
> > > > > how <BR>
> > > > > > > the <BR>
> > > > > > > > EMF is THE forcing . . .<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > > > > > > > From: John Lerch <jlerch1@c...><BR>
> > > > > > > > To: Debate <Debate@l...><BR>
> > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:13:59 -0500<BR>
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: EMFs and ENSO/JAL<BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > > Mike<BR>
> > > > > > > > > You refer to hurricanes as EMF
> > > inducing.  Of course<BR>
> > > > > > > > > there is induction.  The only thing
> > > you have no<BR>
> > > > > > > > > evidence to support is the notion that
> > > the motion of<BR>
> > > > > > > > > oceanic currents thru the earth's
> > > magnetic field<BR>
> > > > > > > > > induces a charge separation that
> > > continues for some<BR>
> > > > > > > > > substantial period of time before the
> > > electrostatic<BR>
> > > > > > > > > attraction pulls those charges back and
> > > before any such<BR>
> > > > > > > > > motion perpendicular to the oceanic
> > > current causes the<BR>
> > > > > > > > > electrical current to be deflected once
> > > again.  IOW not<BR>
> > > > > > > > > only does the electrostatic attraction
> > > immediately stop<BR>
> > > > > > > > > the charge separation but any separation
> > > that does<BR>
> > > > > > > > > start immediately goes into an
> > > orbital  cicular motion<BR>
> > > > > > > > > (of diameter about 1/10000 the diameter
> > > of an atom as I<BR>
> > > > > > > > > showed several posts ago) perpendicular
> > > to the magnetic<BR>
> > > > > > > > > field, effectively ending the charge
> > > separation.  JAL<BR>
> > > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> <
> > > BR>
> > > > > > > > _<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > </tt>
> > >
> > > <br>
> > >
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#1235

From: "b1blancer_29501" <b1blancer1@...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:07 am
Subject: Solar Activity Report for 7/18/02

** Aurora Watch In Effect **

First of all, let's go back to the big full-halo CME that was
mentioned in my last report.  That actually turned out to be a
backside event, which means it was directed away from Earth, not
towards it as originally thought.  One limitation the SOHO satellite
has is one that is common with any camera with a single lens, and that
is it can be difficult to get a sense of depth perception.  It can be
hard to tell if a CME is travelling directly towards or directly away
from Earth.  The solution to this is to try to correlate a full-halo
CME to corresponding optical or radio events recorded on the sun's
surface which is facing Earth.  If you see a flare erupt at the same
time the CME fires off, its a pretty safe bet the CME is headed our
way.  If you don't see any sort of corresponding activity, then it is
more likely to be a backside event.  That system usually works pretty
well, but it isn't perfect, and the full-halo CME from Wednesday is a
good example of that.  Now, onto today's activity.  For the second
time this week, sunspot region 30 has produced an X-class flare, this
one being a powerful X-1.8 event.  This flare had a corresponding CME,
which definitely IS headed towards Earth.  Arrival is expected
sometime Saturday.  There's a new sunspot region in view now, sunspot
region 36.  This one also has the potential of producing a major
flare, although it has been quiet so far.  Lastly, coronal hole
generated solar wind gusts are due to arrive here on the 20th.

The current solar and geomagnetoc conditions are :

NOAA sunspot number : 166
SFI : 181
A index : 7
K index : 1

Solar wind speed : 486.2 km/sec
Solar wind density : 0.5 protons/cc
Solar wind pressure : 0.2 nPa

IMF : 5.2 nT
IMF Orientation : 3.7 nT North

Conditions for the last 24 hours :
Space weather for the past 24 hours has been strong. Solar radiation
storms reaching the S1 level occurred. Radio blackouts reaching the R3
level occurred.

Forecast for the next 24 hours :
Space weather for the next 24 hours is expected to be minor. Radio
blackouts reaching the R1 level are expected.

Solar activity forecast :
Solar activity is expected to be moderate. M-Class activity is
expected from Region 30 and Region 36. There is also the possibility
of isolated X-class activity from these regions.

Geomagnetic activity forecast :
The geomagnetic field is expected to be quiet to active. A CME shock
from the X1 event on 18/0744 UTC is expected to arrive early on day
two of the forecast period.

Recent significant solar flare activity :
18-Jul-2002 0744Z X1.8
18-Jul-2002 0337Z M2.2
17-Jul-2002 0713Z M8.5

#1236

From: agnes_w_32132
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:30 pm
Subject: Re: Please Help!!!

agnes_w_32132

--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "tropicalwxwatcher"
<weathertech@b...> wrote:
> I saw a bunch of posts at the TWC board about Gaia and the weather.
I
> must say I am very skeptical about this but I do find it
interesting.
> I would like to learn a lot more about this subkect as well. So I
am
> asking if anyone can post a few links to sites that explain the
> basics about this subject? Thanks in advance!!!

I found a really interesting book called "Healing Gaia, Pratical
Medicine for the Planet" cant remember who the author is but if you
check out your local Library, I think they will have it. Thats where
I found it. It wil really help you understand how all things are
connected.

#1237

From: "mike" <mike@...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] Solar Activity Report for 7/18/02

pawnfart

b-1, That is VERY interesting.

-----Original Message-----
From: "b1blancer_29501" <b1blancer1@...>
To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:07:55 -0000
Subject: [Methane Hydrate Club] Solar Activity Report for 7/18/02

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> ** Aurora Watch In Effect **<BR>
> <BR>
> First of all, let's go back to the big full-halo CME that was<BR>
> mentioned in my last report.� That actually turned out to be a<BR>
> backside event, which means it was directed away from Earth, not<BR>
> towards it as originally thought.� One limitation the SOHO
> satellite<BR>
> has is one that is common with any camera with a single lens, and
> that<BR>
> is it can be difficult to get a sense of depth perception.� It can
> be<BR>
> hard to tell if a CME is travelling directly towards or directly
> away<BR>
> from Earth.� The solution to this is to try to correlate a
> full-halo<BR>
> CME to corresponding optical or radio events recorded on the sun's<BR>
> surface which is facing Earth.� If you see a flare erupt at the
> same<BR>
> time the CME fires off, its a pretty safe bet the CME is headed our<BR>
> way.� If you don't see any sort of corresponding activity, then it
> is<BR>
> more likely to be a backside event.� That system usually works
> pretty<BR>
> well, but it isn't perfect, and the full-halo CME from Wednesday is
> a<BR>
> good example of that.� Now, onto today's activity.� For the
> second<BR>
> time this week, sunspot region 30 has produced an X-class flare,
> this<BR>
> one being a powerful X-1.8 event.� This flare had a corresponding
> CME,<BR>
> which definitely IS headed towards Earth.� Arrival is expected<BR>
> sometime Saturday.� There's a new sunspot region in view now,
> sunspot<BR>
> region 36.� This one also has the potential of producing a
> major<BR>
> flare, although it has been quiet so far.� Lastly, coronal
> hole<BR>
> generated solar wind gusts are due to arrive here on the 20th.<BR>
> <BR>
> The current solar and geomagnetoc conditions are :<BR>
> <BR>
> NOAA sunspot number : 166<BR>
> SFI : 181<BR>
> A index : 7<BR>
> K index : 1<BR>
> <BR>
> Solar wind speed : 486.2 km/sec<BR>
> Solar wind density : 0.5 protons/cc<BR>
> Solar wind pressure : 0.2 nPa<BR>
> <BR>
> IMF : 5.2 nT<BR>
> IMF Orientation : 3.7 nT North<BR>
> <BR>
> Conditions for the last 24 hours : <BR>
> Space weather for the past 24 hours has been strong. Solar
> radiation<BR>
> storms reaching the S1 level occurred. Radio blackouts reaching the
> R3<BR>
> level occurred.<BR>
> <BR>
> Forecast for the next 24 hours :<BR>
> Space weather for the next 24 hours is expected to be minor. Radio<BR>
> blackouts reaching the R1 level are expected.<BR>
> <BR>
> Solar activity forecast :<BR>
> Solar activity is expected to be moderate. M-Class activity is<BR>
> expected from Region 30 and Region 36. There is also the
> possibility<BR>
> of isolated X-class activity from these regions.<BR>
> <BR>
> Geomagnetic activity forecast :<BR>
> The geomagnetic field is expected to be quiet to active. A CME
> shock<BR>
> from the X1 event on 18/0744 UTC is expected to arrive early on day<BR>
> two of the forecast period.<BR>
> <BR>
> Recent significant solar flare activity :<BR>
> 18-Jul-2002 0744Z X1.8���� <BR>
> 18-Jul-2002 0337Z M2.2���� <BR>
> 17-Jul-2002 0713Z M8.5� <BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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#1238

From: fredwx
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:20 pm
Subject: Methane Explosion Warmed The Prehistoric Earth

fredwx

I came across this article published last December:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/early-earth-01k.html

#1239

From: foryeshua1@...
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:19 pm
Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] Methane Explosion Warmed The Prehistoric Earth

solarelectrojet

Fred, this weekend 7/21/02 we will be starting out with our 5th wheel to
come your way.  We will be  SalemRVers@... while on the road. I
looked up the reference to space travel.  I couldn't find the Methane
Explosion Warmed the Prehistoric Earth.
         Pawn is excluding things I've sent. We have a common belief,
"It's all about electricity" but that is about as far as it goes. I
confess to not knowing all of what he is talking about.  I was amazed
that Agnes was able to get a reference to Gaia which is supposed to
explain it.    I think that my comments are un welcomed here so I am un
subscribing.  If you want to continue to talk with me through
SalemRVers@... Or foryeshua1@... until we leave,  I would be
pleased.  IN case you have not read an overall message about the
Solarelectrojet you can find it on http://www.vorbitz.electrojet/  .
The most interesting things I have found in the last three years are not
there, and if you want I will share them.   Walter

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:20:26 -0000 fredwx <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
writes:
I came across this article published last December:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/early-earth-01k.html



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#1240

From: "mike" <mike@...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:22 pm
Subject: Dr. Walt, don't leave!!!!

pawnfart

Dr. Walt,

I hope you come back.

I may disagree w/ your SE theory but not an EMF based earth.

Less than a year ago I myself was looking at methane hydrates modulating
climate by phase change energies, which was roundly laughed at but it was
the instincts from the biological/hydrological connections that later
allowed me to see how EMFs did it--particularly after Lindzen's paper
came out.

This will be the hottest bb on climate on the web, whether you are with
us or not.  I hope it is with us.

-----Original Message-----
From: foryeshua1@...
To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:19:30 -0700
Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] Methane Explosion Warmed The
Prehistoric Earth

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Fred, this weekend 7/21/02 we will be starting out with our 5th wheel
> to<BR>
> come your way.� We will be� SalemRVers@... while on the
> road. I<BR>
> looked up the reference to space travel.� I couldn't find the
> Methane<BR>
> Explosion Warmed the Prehistoric Earth.� <BR>
> ������� Pawn is excluding things
> I've sent. We have a common belief,<BR>
> "It's all about electricity" but that is about as far as it
> goes. I<BR>
> confess to not knowing all of what he is talking about.� I was
> amazed<BR>
> that Agnes was able to get a reference to Gaia which is supposed to<BR>
> explain it.��� I think that my comments are un welcomed
> here so I am un<BR>
> subscribing.� If you want to continue to talk with me through<BR>
> SalemRVers@... Or foryeshua1@... until we leave,� I would
> be<BR>
> pleased.� IN case you have not read an overall message about
> the<BR>
> Solarelectrojet you can find it on <a
> href="http://www.vorbitz.electrojet/">http://www.vorbitz.electrojet/</a
> >� .� <BR>
> The most interesting things I have found in the last three years are
> not<BR>
> there, and if you want I will share them.�� Walter <BR>
> <BR>
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:20:26 -0000 fredwx
> <no_reply@yahoogroups.com><BR>
> writes:<BR>
> I came across this article published last December:<BR>
> <BR>
> <a
> href="http://www.spacedaily.com/news/early-earth-01k.html">http://www.s
> pacedaily.com/news/early-earth-01k.html</a><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor<BR>
> ADVERTISEMENT<BR>
> <BR>
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
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> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
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> <BR>
> <BR>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
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#1241

From: Ed Boik<eboik@...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:23 pm
Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] Dr. Walt, don't leave!!!!

boikdaddy

the more i read these discussion from all participants, the more I'm becoming
convinced that meterology has overlooked two key facets of weather and climate
prediction.  electromagnitism and biology.

Ed Boik
Urban Planner
City of Peoria
(309) 494-8611


>>> mike@... 07/19/02 03:22PM >>>
Dr. Walt,

I hope you come back.

I may disagree w/ your SE theory but not an EMF based earth.

Less than a year ago I myself was looking at methane hydrates modulating
climate by phase change energies, which was roundly laughed at but it was
the instincts from the biological/hydrological connections that later
allowed me to see how EMFs did it--particularly after Lindzen's paper
came out.

This will be the hottest bb on climate on the web, whether you are with
us or not.  I hope it is with us.

-----Original Message-----
From: foryeshua1@...
To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:19:30 -0700
Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] Methane Explosion Warmed The
Prehistoric Earth

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Fred, this weekend 7/21/02 we will be starting out with our 5th wheel
> to<BR>
> come your way.  We will be  SalemRVers@... while on the
> road. I<BR>
> looked up the reference to space travel.  I couldn't find the
> Methane<BR>
> Explosion Warmed the Prehistoric Earth.  <BR>
>         Pawn is excluding things
> I've sent. We have a common belief,<BR>
> "It's all about electricity" but that is about as far as it
> goes. I<BR>
> confess to not knowing all of what he is talking about.  I was
> amazed<BR>
> that Agnes was able to get a reference to Gaia which is supposed to<BR>
> explain it.    I think that my comments are un welcomed
> here so I am un<BR>
> subscribing.  If you want to continue to talk with me through<BR>
> SalemRVers@... Or foryeshua1@... until we leave,  I would
> be<BR>
> pleased.  IN case you have not read an overall message about
> the<BR>
> Solarelectrojet you can find it on <a
> href="http://www.vorbitz.electrojet/">http://www.vorbitz.electrojet/</a
> >  .  <BR>
> The most interesting things I have found in the last three years are
> not<BR>
> there, and if you want I will share them.   Walter <BR>
> <BR>
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:20:26 -0000 fredwx
> <no_reply@yahoogroups.com><BR>
> writes:<BR>
> I came across this article published last December:<BR>
> <BR>
> <a
> href="http://www.spacedaily.com/news/early-earth-01k.html">http://www.s
> pacedaily.com/news/early-earth-01k.html</a><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor<BR>
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#1242

From: "pawnfart" <mike@...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:32 am
Subject: History, averages, ENSO

pawnfart

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html

"In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond to the
cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen said. "Most
climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods would
correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that we don't
completely understand the physics that control the tropical climate
variability between warm and cold periods."

Comment:

What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt. Pinatubo
and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more induction
both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this case,
since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around and
create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively cooler
waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared of SOx,
the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the Southern Oceans
and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us the
largest El Nino in at least 500 years.

The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:

Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.136�C,
Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)

Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�C, Southern
Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)

The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what warming
oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's added
input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east around
Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better, and in
this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means on
balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current direction .
. .

#1243

From: "b1blancer_29501" <b1blancer1@...>
Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:02 am
Subject: Solar Activity Report for 7/20/02

** Aurora Watch In Effect **

Well, the hits just keep on coming!  The CME from the X-1 flare from
July 18th struch Earth's magnetosphere late Friday.  While it didn't
trigger as much geomagnetic activity as one might have hoped, it did
set off at least one aurora display which was seen over Quebec.
http://www.spaceweather.com/aurora/images/20jul02/Moussette1.jpg .
There may be more on the way.  Late this afternoon a massive X-3 flare
erupted. Ther's no data yet on which sunspot region it came from,
although it appeared to originate from near the southeastern limb of
the solar disk.  There's also no information about whether there was a
CME associated with the event.  More will be known tomorrow.  The
flare looked like it was of a fairly long duration, which would make
it more likely to fire off a CME.  Coronal hole effects are adding to
the general solar wind activity this evening.

The current solar and geomagnetic conditions are :

NOAA sunspot number : 136
SFI : 185
A index : 18
K index : 4

Solar wind speed : 593.5 km/sec
Solar wind density : 4.0 protons/cc
Solar wind pressure : 2.3 nPa

IMF : 5.0 nT
IMF Orientation : 4.2 nT South

Conditions for the last 24 hours :
Space weather for the past 24 hours has been strong. Geomagnetic
storms reaching the G1 level occurred. Radio blackouts reaching the R3
level occurred.

Forecast for the next 24 hours :
Space weather for the next 24 hours is expected to be minor. Radio
blackouts reaching the R1 level are expected.

Solar activity forecast :
Solar activity is expected to be moderate. Regions 30 and 36 are good
candidates for an isolated M-class event.

Geomagnetic activity forecast :
The geomagnetic field is expected to be at unsettled levels throughout
the interval.

Recent significant solar flare activity :
20-Jul-2002 2130Z X3.3
18-Jul-2002 0744Z X1.8
18-Jul-2002 0337Z M2.2

#1244

From: "b1blancer_29501" <b1blancer1@...>
Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 6:10 am
Subject: Solar Activity Report for 7/22/02

** S-1 Solar Radiation Storn In Progress **
** Aurora Watch In Effect **

There's a new sunspot region on the scene, and is it ever starting out
with a bang!  Sunspot region 39, which has just rotated into view over
the southeastern limb of the solar disk, fired off a powerful X-4
class flare Monday evening, which triggered a solar radiation storm.
This is the strongest flare that has been observed for quite awhile.
The event also hurled a big CME into space.  While it wasn't squarely
Earth-directed due to the sunspot's current position, we could receive
a glancing blow from it.  If that happens, it should be sometime
Wednesday.  Meanwhile, geomagnetic activity has already been elevated
due to previous flare and coronal hole activity.  This has produced
some beautiful aurora displays over the higher latitudes the last
couple of nights.  In fact, the last three significant flares in a row
have been X-class flares.  Moderate to high solar actiivity will be
the rule over the next few days, with three different sunspot regions
having flare-producing capability.

The current solar geomegnetic conditions are :

NOAA sunspot number : 176
SFI : 190
A index : 15
K index : 3

Solar wind speed : 490.8 km/sec
Solar wind density : 3.9 protons/cc
Solar wind pressure : 1.6 nPa

IMF : 5.1 nT
IMF Orientation : 4.5 nT South

Conditions for the last 24 hours :
Space weather for the past 24 hours has been strong. Geomagnetic
storms reaching the G1 level occurred. Solar radiation storms reaching
the S1 level occurred. Radio blackouts reaching the R3 level occurred.

Forecast for the next 24 hours :
Space weather for the next 24 hours is expected to be minor.
Solar radiation storms reaching the S1 level are expected. Radio
blackouts reaching the R1 level are expected.

Solar activity forecast :
Solar activity is expected to be moderate. Regions 30, 36, and 39 are
all possible sites for an isolated event.

Geomagnetic activity forecast :
The geomagnetic field is expected to be unsettled for the next three
days.

Recent significant solar flare activity :
23-Jul-2002 0035Z X4.8

#1245

From: fredwx
Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:33 pm
Subject: Re: History, averages, ENSO

fredwx

How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???

  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...

Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect on
cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be significant.
Fred


--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
>
> "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond to
the
> cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
said. "Most
> climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods would
> correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that we
don't
> completely understand the physics that control the tropical climate
> variability between warm and cold periods."
>
> Comment:
>
> What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt. Pinatubo
> and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
induction
> both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this case,
> since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
> warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around and
> create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively
cooler
> waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared of
SOx,
> the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the Southern
Oceans
> and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us the
> largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
>
> The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
>
> Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.136�
C,
> Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
>
> Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�C,
Southern
> Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
>
> The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what warming
> oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's added
> input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east around
> Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better, and in
> this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means on
> balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
direction .
> . .

#1246

From: "pawnfart" <mike@...>
Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:10 pm
Subject: Fred, AGAIN, the concept

pawnfart

is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents involved are
NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the earth's
EMF.

There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is near
zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.  That
means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran waves.
Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in the Pacific--
two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!

I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line mid
range.

Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La Nina
1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the waters there
are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that is why
those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that gyre
around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4 due to
this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south, SSTS
are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then the
eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold means
less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY reflected in
the SST anomalies:

http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html

Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.  That
is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the same as
January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical regions that
means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco as the
winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring rains
come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged, guess
what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF impeadance is
reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is true whether
we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH levels.
Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is how the
season shifts, my friends.

We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a delay in
hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves coming out of
Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology from
West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and extending
out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their early
spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching their
spring.

It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match of
the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the West
African conditions that we see the season actually taking form.  This
happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere that
are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly area
by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had Mitch,
Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another Mitch like
storm LATER in the year.

With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change temperatures
of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall and
flood.

--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
>
>  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in
this
> case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
east
> warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
>
> Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
> currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect on
> cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be significant.
> Fred
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> >
> > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond to
> the
> > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
> said. "Most
> > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods would
> > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that we
> don't
> > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
climate
> > variability between warm and cold periods."
> >
> > Comment:
> >
> > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
Pinatubo
> > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> induction
> > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this case,
> > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
> > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around and
> > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively
> cooler
> > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared of
> SOx,
> > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the Southern
> Oceans
> > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us the
> > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> >
> > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> >
> > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.136�
> C,
> > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> >
> > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�C,
> Southern
> > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> >
> > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
warming
> > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's
added
> > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
around
> > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better, and
in
> > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means on
> > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
> direction .
> > . .

#1247

From: "b1blancer_29501" <b1blancer1@...>
Date: Thu Jul 25, 2002 4:25 am
Subject: Solar Activity Report for 7/24/02

** S-1 Solar Radiation Storm In Progress **
** Aurora Watch In Effect **

"Waiting for impact" would best describe the current situation.  The
CME from the X-4 flare from 7/23 is expected to arrive anytime, and
geomagnetic storm conditions are forecasted.  Meanwhile, the solar
radiation storm triggered by the flare continues and is expected to
last at least through tomorrow.  Sunspot region 39 continues its
active ways by producing an M-class flare, and both region 39 and 36
have the capability of producing a major flare.  The sunspot number
has risen quite sharply over the last couple of days, and there are
several sunspot regions visible.

The current solar and geomagneti cconditions are :

NOAA sunspot number : 270
SFI : 208
A index : 11
K index : 3

Solar wind speed : 422.3 km/sec
Solar wind density : 2.5 protons/cc
Solar wind pressure : 0.9 nPa

IMF : 6.2 nT
IMF Orientation : 1.0 nT South

Conditions for the last 24 hours :
Space weather for the past 24 hours has been minor. Solar radiation
storms reaching the S1 level occurred. Radio blackouts reaching the R1
level occurred.

Forecast for the next 24 hours :
Space weather for the next 24 hours is expected to be minor.
Geomagnetic storms reaching the G1 level are expected. Solar radiation
storms reaching the S1 level are expected. Radio blackouts reaching
the R1 level are expected.

Solar activity forecast :
Solar activity is expected to be moderate to high. Region 36 (S07W42)
and 39 are both capable of producing a major flare.

Geomagnetic activity forecast :
The geomagnetic field is expected to be at active to minor storm
levels for 25 and 26 July. This activity is a result of the X4 event
at 23/0035 UTC. The geomagnetic field is expected to be unsettled to
active on 27 July. The proton event currently in progress is likely to
continue for the next 24 hours.

Recent significant solar flare activity :
24-Jul-2002 1555Z M1.2
23-Jul-2002 0035Z X4.8

#1248

From: fredwx
Date: Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:34 pm
Subject: Re: Fred, AGAIN, the concept

fredwx

<<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved are
NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the earth's
EMF.">>

Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
similar to resistance?

I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but currents
in the context of earth's EMF's???

I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to electricity.
Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when the
ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial current
would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
(resistance)??

Fred



--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents involved are
> NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the earth's
> EMF.
>
> There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
near
> zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.  That
> means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
waves.
> Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in the Pacific--
> two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
>
> I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line mid
> range.
>
> Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
Nina
> 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
there
> are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that is
why
> those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that gyre
> around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4 due
to
> this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south, SSTS
> are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then the
> eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold means
> less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY reflected
in
> the SST anomalies:
>
> http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
>
> Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
That
> is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the same as
> January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical regions that
> means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco as
the
> winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring rains
> come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
guess
> what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF impeadance is
> reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is true whether
> we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH levels.
> Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is how the
> season shifts, my friends.
>
> We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a delay
in
> hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
> conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves coming out of
> Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology from
> West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
> figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
> Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
extending
> out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
early
> spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching their
> spring.
>
> It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match of
> the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the West
> African conditions that we see the season actually taking form.
This
> happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere that
> are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
> strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
area
> by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had Mitch,
> Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another Mitch
like
> storm LATER in the year.
>
> With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
temperatures
> of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall and
> flood.
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> >
> >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in
> this
> > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
> east
> > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> >
> > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
> > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect on
> > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be significant.
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > >
> > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond
to
> > the
> > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
> > said. "Most
> > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
would
> > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that we
> > don't
> > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
> climate
> > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > >
> > > Comment:
> > >
> > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
> Pinatubo
> > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > induction
> > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
case,
> > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
> > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around and
> > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively
> > cooler
> > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared
of
> > SOx,
> > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the Southern
> > Oceans
> > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us
the
> > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > >
> > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > >
> > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere =
+0.136�
> > C,
> > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > >
> > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�C,
> > Southern
> > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > >
> > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
> warming
> > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's
> added
> > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
> around
> > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better, and
> in
> > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means on
> > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
> > direction .
> > > . .

#1249

From: "pawnfart" <mike@...>
Date: Thu Jul 25, 2002 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: Fred, AGAIN, the concept

pawnfart

--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
are
> NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the earth's
> EMF.">>
>
> Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
> similar to resistance?

Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.  Inductance. Hence,
SSTs is part of its measure.

>
> I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
currents
> in the context of earth's EMF's???
>

As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about measurable
induction by ocean currents:

http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html

BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.  What I am
saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in that
locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in the
context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current for these
outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's EMF is fairly
small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But in the
context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending on
their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran wave goes
through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!

In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on why
in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and my
response:

". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development. NOT
Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all over
the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting development
in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change" during
the year."

"What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of formation
of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."

My response:

YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.

LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are electrical.

Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter blows.
Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more to
impedance.

If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east these
waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons in
the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.

Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the TS
itself.

Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics, which
can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.

Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No EMF,
no cirrus, no warm core lows.

+++++

I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause EMF
instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that youll
have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a VERY
strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all around
the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.

This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low, with
positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper clouds
can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being more
positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and elves,
and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that strike activity
is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons away,
even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean surface.

The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.  Land, otoh,
will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving front
to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The insulative
properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is all
biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of W.
Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active could
die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.

> I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
electricity.
> Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when the
> ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
> create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
current
> would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
> (resistance)??
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents involved
are
> > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
earth's
> > EMF.
> >
> > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
> near
> > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.  That
> > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
> waves.
> > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in the
Pacific--
> > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> >
> > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line mid
> > range.
> >
> > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
> Nina
> > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
> there
> > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that is
> why
> > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that gyre
> > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4 due
> to
> > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
SSTS
> > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then
the
> > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
means
> > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY
reflected
> in
> > the SST anomalies:
> >
> > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> >
> > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
> That
> > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the same
as
> > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical regions
that
> > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco as
> the
> > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring rains
> > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
> guess
> > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF impeadance is
> > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is true
whether
> > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
levels.
> > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is how the
> > season shifts, my friends.
> >
> > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a delay
> in
> > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
> > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves coming out
of
> > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology
from
> > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
> > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
> > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
> extending
> > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
> early
> > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching their
> > spring.
> >
> > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match
of
> > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
West
> > African conditions that we see the season actually taking form.
> This
> > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere
that
> > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
> > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
> area
> > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
Mitch,
> > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another Mitch
> like
> > storm LATER in the year.
> >
> > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
> temperatures
> > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall and
> > flood.
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > >
> > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
in
> > this
> > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
> > east
> > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > >
> > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
> > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect
on
> > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
significant.
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > >
> > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond
> to
> > > the
> > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
> > > said. "Most
> > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
> would
> > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that
we
> > > don't
> > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
> > climate
> > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > >
> > > > Comment:
> > > >
> > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
> > Pinatubo
> > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > > induction
> > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
> case,
> > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
east
> > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around
and
> > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively
> > > cooler
> > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared
> of
> > > SOx,
> > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
Southern
> > > Oceans
> > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us
> the
> > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > >
> > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > > >
> > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere =
> +0.136�
> > > C,
> > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > >
> > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�C,
> > > Southern
> > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > >
> > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
> > warming
> > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's
> > added
> > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
> > around
> > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better,
and
> > in
> > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means
on
> > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
> > > direction .
> > > > . .

#1250

From: "pawnfart" <mike@...>
Date: Sat Jul 27, 2002 12:07 am
Subject: CO2 and water vapor, link and comments:

pawnfart

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/intro/delgenio_03/


This research without consideration of EMFs and cirrus, is complete
CRAP!!


http://messageboards.weather.com/3/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=253291764&f=47929
89145&m=3592984326

This above link is where I am writing right now.

#1251

From: "b1blancer_29501" <b1blancer1@...>
Date: Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:43 am
Subject: Solar Activity Report for 7/26/02

If you like solar flares, then today was your day.  Seven, count 'em,
seven flares, the largest being a very respectable M-8 blast, were
recorded today.  The source of all the activity has been sunspot
regions 39 and 44.  These two regions have merged together onto one
large, very active region.  These sunspots are getting close to being
in an Earth-pointing position.  In fact, they are close enough now so
that if today's activity fired off any CME's, we could have some
encounters in a couple of days.  The solar wind speed and density have
been elevated for several days now.  Sometime in the midst of that,
the CME from the last big X-class flare arrived, although the exact
moment of impact would be hard to judge.  Solar activity is expected
to be high as the sunspot region 39/44 complex makes its way across
the solar disk.  The sunspot number now stands above 300 for the first
time in quite awhile.

The current solar and geomagnetic conditions are :

NOAA sunspot number : 319
SFI : 242
A index : 16
K index : 3

Solar wind speed : 434.7 km/sec
Solar wind density : 7.1 protons/cc
Solar wind pressure : 2.3 nPa

IMF : 8.8 nT
IMF Orientation : 7.1 nT North

Conditions for the last 24 hours :
Space weather for the past 24 hours has been moderate. Solar radiation
storms reaching the S1 level occurred. Radio blackouts reaching the R2
level occurred.

Forecast for the next 24 hours :
Space weather for the next 24 hours is expected to be minor. Solar
radiation storms reaching the S1 level are expected. Radio blackouts
reaching the R1 level are expected.

Solar activity forecast :
Solar activity is expected to be low to moderate. Isolated major
flares are possible from Regions 39 and 44.

Geomagnetic activity forecast :
The geomagnetic field is expected to be quiet to unsettled. Isolated
active conditions are possible as a result of the activity from the
past several days. The greater than 10 MeV proton event is expected to
drop below threshold within the next 24 hours.

Recent significant solar flare activity :
26-Jul-2002 2238Z M4.6
26-Jul-2002 2217Z M5.3
26-Jul-2002 2112Z M8.7
26-Jul-2002 1903Z M1.0
26-Jul-2002 0829Z M1.3
26-Jul-2002 0642Z M1.1
26-Jul-2002 0010Z M4.9

#1252

From: "b1blancer_29501" <b1blancer1@...>
Date: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:47 am
Subject: Solar Activity Report for 7/28/02

** Aurora Watch In Effect **

The CME from the M-8 class flare from the 26th was due to have arrived
Sunday, but it appears to be running a bit late.  Nevertheless, it's
arrival is still anticipated, and geomagnetic storm conditions are
forecasted for when it does.  Meanwhile, the sunspot region 39/44
complex continues to be active, producing four more flares in the last
24 hours, the largest being an M4.8 flare.  There is a coronal hole
rotating into view, but it appears to be too far north on the solar
disk to affect us.  Sunspot regions 39 and 44 are now in a squarely
Earth-pointing position.  If they fire off any more CME's, they could
well be Earth-directed.

The current solar and geomagnetic conditions are :

NOAA sunspot number : 300
SFI : 239
A index : 10
K index : 2

Solar wind speed : 452.4 km/sec
Solar wind density : 2.5 protons/cc
Solar wind pressure : 0.9 nPa

IMF : 4.8 nT
IMF Orientation : 1.2 nT North

Conditions for the last 24 hours :
Space weather for the past 24 hours has been minor. Radio blackouts
reaching the R1 level occurred.

Forecast for the next 24 hours :
Space weather for the next 24 hours is expected to be minor.
Geomagnetic storms reaching the G1 level are expected. Radio blackouts
reaching the R1 level are expected.

Solar activity forecast :
Solar activity is expected to be at moderate to high levels. M-class
flares are likely from Regions 39 and 44. Either region could produce
a major flare during the period. Region 50 could produce an isolated
M-class flare during the period.

Geomagnetic activity forecast :
Solar activity is expected to be at moderate to high levels. M-class
flares are likely from Regions 39 and 44. Either region could produce
a major flare during the period. Region 50 could produce an isolated
M-class flare during the period.

Recent significant solar flare activity :
29-Jul-2002 0238Z M4.8
29-Jul-2002 0023Z M1.4
28-Jul-2002 2312Z M2.2
28-Jul-2002 0035Z M2.3

#1253

From: fredwx
Date: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:10 pm
Subject: Re: Fred, AGAIN, the concept

fredwx

<<"Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance. Hence,
SSTs is part of its measure.">>

If I remember correctly impedance is related to alternating current
and resistance to direct current. I assume we have been talking about
direct current here.

If I understand this correctly the SST is directly related to the
resistance of current through sea water. In other words, the warmer
the temps, the lower the resistance and therefore resulting in higher
electrical currents (those generated by the sea water moving through
the earth's magnetic field)?

I am unclear how SST's measure capacitance?

Fred




--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
> are
> > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
earth's
> > EMF.">>
> >
> > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
> > similar to resistance?
>
> Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.  Inductance.
Hence,
> SSTs is part of its measure.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
> currents
> > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> >
>
> As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
measurable
> induction by ocean currents:
>
> http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
>
> BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
> the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.  What I am
> saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in that
> locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in the
> context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current for these
> outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
> dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
fairly
> small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But in the
> context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
> currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending
on
> their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
> inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran wave goes
> through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
>
> In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on
why
> in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and
my
> response:
>
> ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development.
NOT
> Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all
over
> the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
development
> in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change" during
> the year."
>
> "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
formation
> of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
> that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
>
> My response:
>
> YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.
>
> LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are electrical.
>
> Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
> strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
blows.
> Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
> positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more
to
> impedance.
>
> If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east these
> waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons
in
> the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
>
> Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the TS
> itself.
>
> Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
> between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics,
which
> can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
>
> Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No
EMF,
> no cirrus, no warm core lows.
>
> +++++
>
> I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause EMF
> instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
> instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
> lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that youll
> have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a
VERY
> strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
> ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
around
> the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
> under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
> retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
>
> This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
> storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low, with
> positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
clouds
> can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being more
> positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and elves,
> and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
> around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that strike
activity
> is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
> positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
away,
> even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
surface.
>
> The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.  Land,
otoh,
> will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
front
> to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The insulative
> properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is all
> biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of W.
> Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active could
> die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
> electricity.
> > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when
the
> > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
> > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
> current
> > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
> > (resistance)??
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents involved
> are
> > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
> earth's
> > > EMF.
> > >
> > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
> > near
> > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.
That
> > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
> > waves.
> > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in the
> Pacific--
> > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > >
> > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line
mid
> > > range.
> > >
> > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
> > Nina
> > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
> > there
> > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that
is
> > why
> > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that
gyre
> > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4
due
> > to
> > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
> SSTS
> > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then
> the
> > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
> means
> > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY
> reflected
> > in
> > > the SST anomalies:
> > >
> > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > >
> > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
> > That
> > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the
same
> as
> > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical regions
> that
> > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco
as
> > the
> > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
rains
> > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
> > guess
> > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF impeadance is
> > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is true
> whether
> > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
> levels.
> > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is how the
> > > season shifts, my friends.
> > >
> > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a
delay
> > in
> > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
> > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves coming
out
> of
> > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology
> from
> > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
> > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
> > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
> > extending
> > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
> > early
> > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching
their
> > > spring.
> > >
> > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match
> of
> > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
> West
> > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
form.
> > This
> > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere
> that
> > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
> > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
> > area
> > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
> Mitch,
> > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
Mitch
> > like
> > > storm LATER in the year.
> > >
> > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
> > temperatures
> > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall
and
> > > flood.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > >
> > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
> in
> > > this
> > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west
to
> > > east
> > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > >
> > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
> > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect
> on
> > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
> significant.
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > >
> > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
correspond
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
> > > > said. "Most
> > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
> > would
> > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that
> we
> > > > don't
> > > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
> > > climate
> > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > >
> > > > > Comment:
> > > > >
> > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
> > > Pinatubo
> > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > > > induction
> > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
> > case,
> > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
> east
> > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around
> and
> > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
relatively
> > > > cooler
> > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
cleared
> > of
> > > > SOx,
> > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
> Southern
> > > > Oceans
> > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give
us
> > the
> > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > > > >
> > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere =
> > +0.136�
> > > > C,
> > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�
C,
> > > > Southern
> > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > >
> > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
> > > warming
> > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
Ocean's
> > > added
> > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
> > > around
> > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better,
> and
> > > in
> > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
means
> on
> > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
> > > > direction .
> > > > > . .

#1254

From: fredwx
Date: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: Fred, AGAIN, the concept

fredwx

<<"As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
measurable induction by ocean currents:">>

On that link it says:

"The magnetic fields generated by ocean currents are of the order of
1 nT, and while these can be measured by magnetometers, they would be
difficult to detect owing to contamination from other sources of
magnetic variation."

It still seems to me that with such a low magnetic field generated,
The currents must also be very small and therefore not significant
enough to influence the cirrus clouds above.

Fred

--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
> are
> > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
earth's
> > EMF.">>
> >
> > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
> > similar to resistance?
>
> Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.  Inductance.
Hence,
> SSTs is part of its measure.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
> currents
> > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> >
>
> As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
measurable
> induction by ocean currents:
>
> http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
>
> BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
> the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.  What I am
> saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in that
> locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in the
> context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current for these
> outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
> dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
fairly
> small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But in the
> context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
> currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending
on
> their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
> inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran wave goes
> through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
>
> In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on
why
> in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and
my
> response:
>
> ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development.
NOT
> Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all
over
> the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
development
> in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change" during
> the year."
>
> "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
formation
> of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
> that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
>
> My response:
>
> YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.
>
> LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are electrical.
>
> Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
> strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
blows.
> Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
> positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more
to
> impedance.
>
> If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east these
> waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons
in
> the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
>
> Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the TS
> itself.
>
> Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
> between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics,
which
> can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
>
> Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No
EMF,
> no cirrus, no warm core lows.
>
> +++++
>
> I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause EMF
> instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
> instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
> lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that youll
> have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a
VERY
> strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
> ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
around
> the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
> under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
> retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
>
> This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
> storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low, with
> positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
clouds
> can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being more
> positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and elves,
> and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
> around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that strike
activity
> is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
> positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
away,
> even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
surface.
>
> The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.  Land,
otoh,
> will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
front
> to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The insulative
> properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is all
> biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of W.
> Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active could
> die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
> electricity.
> > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when
the
> > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
> > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
> current
> > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
> > (resistance)??
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents involved
> are
> > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
> earth's
> > > EMF.
> > >
> > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
> > near
> > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.
That
> > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
> > waves.
> > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in the
> Pacific--
> > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > >
> > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line
mid
> > > range.
> > >
> > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
> > Nina
> > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
> > there
> > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that
is
> > why
> > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that
gyre
> > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4
due
> > to
> > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
> SSTS
> > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then
> the
> > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
> means
> > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY
> reflected
> > in
> > > the SST anomalies:
> > >
> > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > >
> > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
> > That
> > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the
same
> as
> > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical regions
> that
> > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco
as
> > the
> > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
rains
> > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
> > guess
> > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF impeadance is
> > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is true
> whether
> > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
> levels.
> > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is how the
> > > season shifts, my friends.
> > >
> > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a
delay
> > in
> > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
> > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves coming
out
> of
> > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology
> from
> > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
> > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
> > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
> > extending
> > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
> > early
> > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching
their
> > > spring.
> > >
> > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match
> of
> > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
> West
> > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
form.
> > This
> > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere
> that
> > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
> > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
> > area
> > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
> Mitch,
> > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
Mitch
> > like
> > > storm LATER in the year.
> > >
> > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
> > temperatures
> > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall
and
> > > flood.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > >
> > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
> in
> > > this
> > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west
to
> > > east
> > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > >
> > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
> > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect
> on
> > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
> significant.
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > >
> > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
correspond
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
> > > > said. "Most
> > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
> > would
> > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that
> we
> > > > don't
> > > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
> > > climate
> > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > >
> > > > > Comment:
> > > > >
> > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
> > > Pinatubo
> > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > > > induction
> > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
> > case,
> > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
> east
> > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around
> and
> > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
relatively
> > > > cooler
> > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
cleared
> > of
> > > > SOx,
> > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
> Southern
> > > > Oceans
> > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give
us
> > the
> > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > > > >
> > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere =
> > +0.136�
> > > > C,
> > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�
C,
> > > > Southern
> > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > >
> > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
> > > warming
> > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
Ocean's
> > > added
> > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
> > > around
> > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better,
> and
> > > in
> > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
means
> on
> > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
> > > > direction .
> > > > > . .

#1255

From: fredwx
Date: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: Fred, AGAIN, the concept

fredwx

<<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
electrical.">>

I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember, tropical
storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)than
would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the low
level air temps being high and that this does not allow a large
enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to produce
the electical charge separation. The result is heavier rainfall but
less lightning discharges.

Fred





--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
> are
> > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
earth's
> > EMF.">>
> >
> > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
> > similar to resistance?
>
> Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.  Inductance.
Hence,
> SSTs is part of its measure.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
> currents
> > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> >
>
> As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
measurable
> induction by ocean currents:
>
> http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
>
> BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
> the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.  What I am
> saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in that
> locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in the
> context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current for these
> outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
> dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
fairly
> small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But in the
> context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
> currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending
on
> their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
> inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran wave goes
> through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
>
> In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on
why
> in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and
my
> response:
>
> ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development.
NOT
> Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all
over
> the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
development
> in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change" during
> the year."
>
> "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
formation
> of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
> that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
>
> My response:
>
> YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.
>
> LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are electrical.
>
> Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
> strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
blows.
> Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
> positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more
to
> impedance.
>
> If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east these
> waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons
in
> the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
>
> Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the TS
> itself.
>
> Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
> between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics,
which
> can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
>
> Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No
EMF,
> no cirrus, no warm core lows.
>
> +++++
>
> I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause EMF
> instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
> instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
> lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that youll
> have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a
VERY
> strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
> ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
around
> the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
> under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
> retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
>
> This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
> storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low, with
> positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
clouds
> can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being more
> positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and elves,
> and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
> around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that strike
activity
> is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
> positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
away,
> even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
surface.
>
> The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.  Land,
otoh,
> will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
front
> to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The insulative
> properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is all
> biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of W.
> Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active could
> die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
> electricity.
> > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when
the
> > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
> > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
> current
> > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
> > (resistance)??
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents involved
> are
> > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
> earth's
> > > EMF.
> > >
> > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
> > near
> > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.
That
> > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
> > waves.
> > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in the
> Pacific--
> > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > >
> > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line
mid
> > > range.
> > >
> > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
> > Nina
> > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
> > there
> > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that
is
> > why
> > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that
gyre
> > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4
due
> > to
> > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
> SSTS
> > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then
> the
> > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
> means
> > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY
> reflected
> > in
> > > the SST anomalies:
> > >
> > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > >
> > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
> > That
> > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the
same
> as
> > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical regions
> that
> > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco
as
> > the
> > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
rains
> > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
> > guess
> > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF impeadance is
> > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is true
> whether
> > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
> levels.
> > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is how the
> > > season shifts, my friends.
> > >
> > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a
delay
> > in
> > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
> > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves coming
out
> of
> > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology
> from
> > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
> > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
> > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
> > extending
> > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
> > early
> > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching
their
> > > spring.
> > >
> > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match
> of
> > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
> West
> > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
form.
> > This
> > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere
> that
> > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
> > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
> > area
> > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
> Mitch,
> > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
Mitch
> > like
> > > storm LATER in the year.
> > >
> > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
> > temperatures
> > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall
and
> > > flood.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > >
> > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
> in
> > > this
> > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west
to
> > > east
> > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > >
> > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
> > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect
> on
> > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
> significant.
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > >
> > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
correspond
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
> > > > said. "Most
> > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
> > would
> > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that
> we
> > > > don't
> > > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
> > > climate
> > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > >
> > > > > Comment:
> > > > >
> > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
> > > Pinatubo
> > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
> > > > induction
> > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
> > case,
> > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
> east
> > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around
> and
> > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
relatively
> > > > cooler
> > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
cleared
> > of
> > > > SOx,
> > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
> Southern
> > > > Oceans
> > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give
us
> > the
> > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > > > >
> > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere =
> > +0.136�
> > > > C,
> > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�
C,
> > > > Southern
> > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > >
> > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
> > > warming
> > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
Ocean's
> > > added
> > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
> > > around
> > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better,
> and
> > > in
> > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
means
> on
> > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
> > > > direction .
> > > > > . .

#1256

From: "pawnfart" <mike@...>
Date: Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:51 pm
Subject: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

pawnfart

have been observed, Fred.

And yes, it is a wave feature.  Capacitance, for instance, works
between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents, and
the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is insulative--just
like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but not
DC.  Get it?



--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> electrical.">>
>
> I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember, tropical
> storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)than
> would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the low
> level air temps being high and that this does not allow a large
> enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to produce
> the electical charge separation. The result is heavier rainfall but
> less lightning discharges.
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
involved
> > are
> > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
> earth's
> > > EMF.">>
> > >
> > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is =
or
> > > similar to resistance?
> >
> > Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.  Inductance.
> Hence,
> > SSTs is part of its measure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
> > currents
> > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> > >
> >
> > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
> measurable
> > induction by ocean currents:
> >
> > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
> >
> > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context
of
> > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.  What I am
> > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in
that
> > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in
the
> > context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current for
these
> > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
> > dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
> fairly
> > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But in the
> > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
> > currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending
> on
> > their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
> > inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran wave goes
> > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
> >
> > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on
> why
> > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and
> my
> > response:
> >
> > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development.
> NOT
> > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all
> over
> > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
> development
> > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change"
during
> > the year."
> >
> > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
> formation
> > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
> > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
> >
> > My response:
> >
> > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.
> >
> > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
electrical.
> >
> > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
> > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
> blows.
> > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
> > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more
> to
> > impedance.
> >
> > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east
these
> > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons
> in
> > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
> >
> > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the
TS
> > itself.
> >
> > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
> > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics,
> which
> > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
> >
> > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No
> EMF,
> > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
> >
> > +++++
> >
> > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause
EMF
> > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
> > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
> > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that
youll
> > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a
> VERY
> > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
> > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
> around
> > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
> > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
> > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
> >
> > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
> > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low,
with
> > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
> clouds
> > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being
more
> > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and
elves,
> > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
> > around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that strike
> activity
> > is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
> > positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
> away,
> > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
> surface.
> >
> > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.  Land,
> otoh,
> > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
> front
> > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The insulative
> > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is
all
> > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of
W.
> > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active
could
> > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
> > electricity.
> > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when
> the
> > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this
will
> > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
> > current
> > > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
> > > (resistance)??
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents
involved
> > are
> > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
> > earth's
> > > > EMF.
> > > >
> > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI
is
> > > near
> > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.
> That
> > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
> > > waves.
> > > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in the
> > Pacific--
> > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > > >
> > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line
> mid
> > > > range.
> > > >
> > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the
La
> > > Nina
> > > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the
waters
> > > there
> > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that
> is
> > > why
> > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that
> gyre
> > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4
> due
> > > to
> > > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
> > SSTS
> > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and
then
> > the
> > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
> > means
> > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY
> > reflected
> > > in
> > > > the SST anomalies:
> > > >
> > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > > >
> > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
Carribean.
> > > That
> > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the
> same
> > as
> > > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical regions
> > that
> > > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the
Orinoco
> as
> > > the
> > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
> rains
> > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is
plugged,
> > > guess
> > > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF impeadance
is
> > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is true
> > whether
> > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
> > levels.
> > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is how
the
> > > > season shifts, my friends.
> > > >
> > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a
> delay
> > > in
> > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
> > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves coming
> out
> > of
> > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
hydrology
> > from
> > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able
to
> > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
> > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
> > > extending
> > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again,
their
> > > early
> > > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching
> their
> > > > spring.
> > > >
> > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a
match
> > of
> > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
> > West
> > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
> form.
> > > This
> > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
hemisphere
> > that
> > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really
come
> > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm
anomaly
> > > area
> > > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
> > Mitch,
> > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
> Mitch
> > > like
> > > > storm LATER in the year.
> > > >
> > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
> > > temperatures
> > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall
> and
> > > > flood.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > > >
> > > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in
more
> > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs,
and
> > in
> > > > this
> > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
west
> to
> > > > east
> > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > > >
> > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
electrical
> > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable
effect
> > on
> > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
> > significant.
> > > > > Fred
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
wrote:
> > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
> correspond
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
> > > > > said. "Most
> > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold
periods
> > > would
> > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear
that
> > we
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the
tropical
> > > > climate
> > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Comment:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post
Mt.
> > > > Pinatubo
> > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in
more
> > > > > induction
> > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in
this
> > > case,
> > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west
to
> > east
> > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre
around
> > and
> > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
> relatively
> > > > > cooler
> > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
> cleared
> > > of
> > > > > SOx,
> > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
> > Southern
> > > > > Oceans
> > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to
give
> us
> > > the
> > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern Hemisphere
=
> > > +0.136�
> > > > > C,
> > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217�
> C,
> > > > > Southern
> > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to
what
> > > > warming
> > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
> Ocean's
> > > > added
> > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to
east
> > > > around
> > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts
better,
> > and
> > > > in
> > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
> means
> > on
> > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
> > > > > direction .
> > > > > > . .

#1257

From: fredwx
Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:51 am
Subject: Re: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

fredwx

RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:

"Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core (within
about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only around a
dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around the
eyewall of the storm...."

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html





--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> have been observed, Fred.
>
> And yes, it is a wave feature.  Capacitance, for instance, works
> between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents,
and

"> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is insulative--
just
> like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but not
> DC.  Get it?
>
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> > electrical.">>
> >
> > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember, tropical
> > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)than
> > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the
low
> > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a large
> > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to
produce
> > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier rainfall
but
> > less lightning discharges.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
> involved
> > > are
> > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
> > earth's
> > > > EMF.">>
> > > >
> > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is
=
> or
> > > > similar to resistance?
> > >
> > > Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.  Inductance.
> > Hence,
> > > SSTs is part of its measure.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
> > > currents
> > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> > > >
> > >
> > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
> > measurable
> > > induction by ocean currents:
> > >
> > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
> > >
> > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
context
> of
> > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.  What I
am
> > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in
> that
> > > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED
in
> the
> > > context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current for
> these
> > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we
are
> > > dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
> > fairly
> > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But in
the
> > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
> > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
depending
> > on
> > > their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be significant
the
> > > inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran wave
goes
> > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
> > >
> > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting
on
> > why
> > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator
and
> > my
> > > response:
> > >
> > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
development.
> > NOT
> > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes
all
> > over
> > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
> > development
> > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change"
> during
> > > the year."
> > >
> > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
> > formation
> > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never
gets
> > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
> > >
> > > My response:
> > >
> > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far
stated.
> > >
> > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> electrical.
> > >
> > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means
dry
> > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
> > blows.
> > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
voltages
> > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing
more
> > to
> > > impedance.
> > >
> > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east
> these
> > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
electrons
> > in
> > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
> > >
> > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of
the
> TS
> > > itself.
> > >
> > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
potentials
> > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
dynamics,
> > which
> > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
> > >
> > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus.
No
> > EMF,
> > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
> > >
> > > +++++
> > >
> > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause
> EMF
> > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
> > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
> > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that
> youll
> > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in
a
> > VERY
> > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in
the
> > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
> > around
> > > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR
values
> > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
doesn't
> > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
> > >
> > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
tropical
> > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low,
> with
> > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
> > clouds
> > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being
> more
> > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and
> elves,
> > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive
charges
> > > around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that strike
> > activity
> > > is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is
so
> > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
> > away,
> > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
> > surface.
> > >
> > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.
Land,
> > otoh,
> > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
> > front
> > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The insulative
> > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is
> all
> > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off
of
> W.
> > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active
> could
> > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
conditions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
> > > electricity.
> > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field,
when
> > the
> > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this
> will
> > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
electricial
> > > current
> > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
Impedence
> > > > (resistance)??
> > > >
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents
> involved
> > > are
> > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
the
> > > earth's
> > > > > EMF.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the
SOI
> is
> > > > near
> > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
regions.
> > That
> > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge
Doran
> > > > waves.
> > > > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in the
> > > Pacific--
> > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > > > >
> > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless
line
> > mid
> > > > > range.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs
the
> La
> > > > Nina
> > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the
> waters
> > > > there
> > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and
that
> > is
> > > > why
> > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs
that
> > gyre
> > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in
3, 4
> > due
> > > > to
> > > > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just
south,
> > > SSTS
> > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and
> then
> > > the
> > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because
cold
> > > means
> > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY
> > > reflected
> > > > in
> > > > > the SST anomalies:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
> Carribean.
> > > > That
> > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is
the
> > same
> > > as
> > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical
regions
> > > that
> > > > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the
> Orinoco
> > as
> > > > the
> > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
> > rains
> > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is
> plugged,
> > > > guess
> > > > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF
impeadance
> is
> > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is
true
> > > whether
> > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
> > > levels.
> > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is
how
> the
> > > > > season shifts, my friends.
> > > > >
> > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and
a
> > delay
> > > > in
> > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now,
making
> > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves
coming
> > out
> > > of
> > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
> hydrology
> > > from
> > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been
able
> to
> > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to
the
> > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
> > > > extending
> > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again,
> their
> > > > early
> > > > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
matching
> > their
> > > > > spring.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a
> match
> > > of
> > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/
the
> > > West
> > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
> > form.
> > > > This
> > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
> hemisphere
> > > that
> > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really
> come
> > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm
> anomaly
> > > > area
> > > > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint,
had
> > > Mitch,
> > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
> > Mitch
> > > > like
> > > > > storm LATER in the year.
> > > > >
> > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
> > > > temperatures
> > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will
stall
> > and
> > > > > flood.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in
> more
> > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
SSTs,
> and
> > > in
> > > > > this
> > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
> west
> > to
> > > > > east
> > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
> electrical
> > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable
> effect
> > > on
> > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
> > > significant.
> > > > > > Fred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
> > correspond
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising,"
Poulsen
> > > > > > said. "Most
> > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold
> periods
> > > > would
> > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear
> that
> > > we
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the
> tropical
> > > > > climate
> > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Comment:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post
> Mt.
> > > > > Pinatubo
> > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in
> more
> > > > > > induction
> > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in
> this
> > > > case,
> > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
west
> to
> > > east
> > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre
> around
> > > and
> > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
> > relatively
> > > > > > cooler
> > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
> > cleared
> > > > of
> > > > > > SOx,
> > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
> > > Southern
> > > > > > Oceans
> > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to
> give
> > us
> > > > the
> > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern
Hemisphere
> =
> > > > +0.136�
> > > > > > C,
> > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere =
+0.217�
> > C,
> > > > > > Southern
> > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to
> what
> > > > > warming
> > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
> > Ocean's
> > > > > added
> > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to
> east
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts
> better,
> > > and
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
> > means
> > > on
> > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to
current
> > > > > > direction .
> > > > > > > . .

#1258

From: "pawnfart" <mike@...>
Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

pawnfart

I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think you may
be trying to say.

Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.

Do you know how a capaciter works?

Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface under an
eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?  What kind
of electrons will be favored on the surface?  What charge will be
repelled and what attracted?


--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
>
> "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core (within
> about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only around
a
> dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around the
> eyewall of the storm...."
>
> http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > have been observed, Fred.
> >
> > And yes, it is a wave feature.  Capacitance, for instance, works
> > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents,
> and
>
> "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is insulative--
> just
> > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but not
> > DC.  Get it?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> > > electrical.">>
> > >
> > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
tropical
> > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)
than
> > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the
> low
> > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a large
> > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to
> produce
> > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier rainfall
> but
> > > less lightning discharges.
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
> > involved
> > > > are
> > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
> > > earth's
> > > > > EMF.">>
> > > > >
> > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is
> =
> > or
> > > > > similar to resistance?
> > > >
> > > > Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.  Inductance.
> > > Hence,
> > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF
but
> > > > currents
> > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
> > > measurable
> > > > induction by ocean currents:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
> > > >
> > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
> context
> > of
> > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.  What
I
> am
> > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in
> > that
> > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED
> in
> > the
> > > > context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current for
> > these
> > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we
> are
> > > > dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
> > > fairly
> > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But in
> the
> > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
> > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
> depending
> > > on
> > > > their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be significant
> the
> > > > inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran wave
> goes
> > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
> > > >
> > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
commenting
> on
> > > why
> > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator
> and
> > > my
> > > > response:
> > > >
> > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
> development.
> > > NOT
> > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes
> all
> > > over
> > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
> > > development
> > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change"
> > during
> > > > the year."
> > > >
> > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
> > > formation
> > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never
> gets
> > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
> > > >
> > > > My response:
> > > >
> > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far
> stated.
> > > >
> > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> > electrical.
> > > >
> > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means
> dry
> > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
counter
> > > blows.
> > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
> voltages
> > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing
> more
> > > to
> > > > impedance.
> > > >
> > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east
> > these
> > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
> electrons
> > > in
> > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
> > > >
> > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of
> the
> > TS
> > > > itself.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
> potentials
> > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
> dynamics,
> > > which
> > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
> > > >
> > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus.
> No
> > > EMF,
> > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
> > > >
> > > > +++++
> > > >
> > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to
cause
> > EMF
> > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
> > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
> > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that
> > youll
> > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in
> a
> > > VERY
> > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in
> the
> > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages
all
> > > around
> > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR
> values
> > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
> doesn't
> > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
energy.
> > > >
> > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
> tropical
> > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core
low,
> > with
> > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
> > > clouds
> > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves
being
> > more
> > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and
> > elves,
> > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive
> charges
> > > > around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that strike
> > > activity
> > > > is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is
> so
> > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
electrons
> > > away,
> > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
> > > surface.
> > > >
> > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.
> Land,
> > > otoh,
> > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
moving
> > > front
> > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The
insulative
> > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course,
is
> > all
> > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off
> of
> > W.
> > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active
> > could
> > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
> conditions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
> > > > electricity.
> > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field,
> when
> > > the
> > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this
> > will
> > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
> electricial
> > > > current
> > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
> Impedence
> > > > > (resistance)??
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
wrote:
> > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents
> > involved
> > > > are
> > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
> the
> > > > earth's
> > > > > > EMF.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the
> SOI
> > is
> > > > > near
> > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
> regions.
> > > That
> > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge
> Doran
> > > > > waves.
> > > > > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in
the
> > > > Pacific--
> > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless
> line
> > > mid
> > > > > > range.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs
> the
> > La
> > > > > Nina
> > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the
> > waters
> > > > > there
> > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and
> that
> > > is
> > > > > why
> > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs
> that
> > > gyre
> > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in
> 3, 4
> > > due
> > > > > to
> > > > > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just
> south,
> > > > SSTS
> > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans
and
> > then
> > > > the
> > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because
> cold
> > > > means
> > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is CLEARLY
> > > > reflected
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the SST anomalies:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
> > Carribean.
> > > > > That
> > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is
> the
> > > same
> > > > as
> > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical
> regions
> > > > that
> > > > > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the
> > Orinoco
> > > as
> > > > > the
> > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
spring
> > > rains
> > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is
> > plugged,
> > > > > guess
> > > > > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF
> impeadance
> > is
> > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is
> true
> > > > whether
> > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or
pH
> > > > levels.
> > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is
> how
> > the
> > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and
> a
> > > delay
> > > > > in
> > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now,
> making
> > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves
> coming
> > > out
> > > > of
> > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
> > hydrology
> > > > from
> > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been
> able
> > to
> > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to
> the
> > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta
and
> > > > > extending
> > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again,
> > their
> > > > > early
> > > > > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
> matching
> > > their
> > > > > > spring.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a
> > match
> > > > of
> > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/
> the
> > > > West
> > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
> > > form.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
> > hemisphere
> > > > that
> > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
really
> > come
> > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm
> > anomaly
> > > > > area
> > > > > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint,
> had
> > > > Mitch,
> > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
another
> > > Mitch
> > > > > like
> > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
> > > > > temperatures
> > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will
> stall
> > > and
> > > > > > flood.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result
in
> > more
> > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
> SSTs,
> > and
> > > > in
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
> > west
> > > to
> > > > > > east
> > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
> > electrical
> > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable
> > effect
> > > > on
> > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
> > > > significant.
> > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
> > > correspond
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising,"
> Poulsen
> > > > > > > said. "Most
> > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold
> > periods
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is
clear
> > that
> > > > we
> > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the
> > tropical
> > > > > > climate
> > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Comment:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans,
post
> > Mt.
> > > > > > Pinatubo
> > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
> > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result
in
> > more
> > > > > > > induction
> > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
in
> > this
> > > > > case,
> > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
> west
> > to
> > > > east
> > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre
> > around
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
> > > relatively
> > > > > > > cooler
> > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
> > > cleared
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > SOx,
> > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
> > > > Southern
> > > > > > > Oceans
> > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to
> > give
> > > us
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern
> Hemisphere
> > =
> > > > > +0.136�
> > > > > > > C,
> > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere =
> +0.217�
> > > C,
> > > > > > > Southern
> > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related
to
> > what
> > > > > > warming
> > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
> > > Ocean's
> > > > > > added
> > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west
to
> > east
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts
> > better,
> > > > and
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
oceans
> > > means
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to
> current
> > > > > > > direction .
> > > > > > > > . .

#1259

From: fredwx
Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 9:55 pm
Subject: Re: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

fredwx

Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct Current.  I
understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
nonconductor of electric current.


--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think you
may
> be trying to say.
>
> Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
>
> Do you know how a capaciter works?
>
> Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface under
an
> eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?  What kind
> of electrons will be favored on the surface?  What charge will be
> repelled and what attracted?
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
> >
> > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
(within
> > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
around
> a
> > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around the
> > eyewall of the storm...."
> >
> > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > have been observed, Fred.
> > >
> > > And yes, it is a wave feature.  Capacitance, for instance,
works
> > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents,
> > and
> >
> > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
insulative--
> > just
> > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but
not
> > > DC.  Get it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> > > > electrical.">>
> > > >
> > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
> tropical
> > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)
> than
> > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the
> > low
> > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a
large
> > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to
> > produce
> > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
rainfall
> > but
> > > > less lightning discharges.
> > > >
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
> > > involved
> > > > > are
> > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
the
> > > > earth's
> > > > > > EMF.">>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance
is
> > =
> > > or
> > > > > > similar to resistance?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
Inductance.
> > > > Hence,
> > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF
> but
> > > > > currents
> > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
> > > > measurable
> > > > > induction by ocean currents:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
> > > > >
> > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
> > context
> > > of
> > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.
What
> I
> > am
> > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF
in
> > > that
> > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
ORGANIZED
> > in
> > > the
> > > > > context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current
for
> > > these
> > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because
we
> > are
> > > > > dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's EMF
is
> > > > fairly
> > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But
in
> > the
> > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of
ocean
> > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
> > depending
> > > > on
> > > > > their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be
significant
> > the
> > > > > inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran wave
> > goes
> > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
condition!
> > > > >
> > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
> commenting
> > on
> > > > why
> > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
equator
> > and
> > > > my
> > > > > response:
> > > > >
> > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
> > development.
> > > > NOT
> > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes
> > all
> > > > over
> > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
> > > > development
> > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
wouldn't "Change"
> > > during
> > > > > the year."
> > > > >
> > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
> > > > formation
> > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply
never
> > gets
> > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
> > > > >
> > > > > My response:
> > > > >
> > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far
> > stated.
> > > > >
> > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> > > electrical.
> > > > >
> > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that
means
> > dry
> > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
> counter
> > > > blows.
> > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
> > voltages
> > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
nothing
> > more
> > > > to
> > > > > impedance.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to
east
> > > these
> > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
> > electrons
> > > > in
> > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
> > > > >
> > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of
> > the
> > > TS
> > > > > itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
> > potentials
> > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
> > dynamics,
> > > > which
> > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
> > > > >
> > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
cirrus.
> > No
> > > > EMF,
> > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
> > > > >
> > > > > +++++
> > > > >
> > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to
> cause
> > > EMF
> > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that
EMF
> > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
> > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means
that
> > > youll
> > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere
in
> > a
> > > > VERY
> > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges
in
> > the
> > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages
> all
> > > > around
> > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR
> > values
> > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
> > doesn't
> > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
> energy.
> > > > >
> > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
> > tropical
> > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core
> low,
> > > with
> > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the
upper
> > > > clouds
> > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves
> being
> > > more
> > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and
> > > elves,
> > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive
> > charges
> > > > > around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that strike
> > > > activity
> > > > > is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere
is
> > so
> > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
> electrons
> > > > away,
> > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged
ocean
> > > > surface.
> > > > >
> > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.
> > Land,
> > > > otoh,
> > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
> moving
> > > > front
> > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The
> insulative
> > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course,
> is
> > > all
> > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming
off
> > of
> > > W.
> > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not
active
> > > could
> > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
> > conditions.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
> > > > > electricity.
> > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
field,
> > when
> > > > the
> > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west)
this
> > > will
> > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
> > electricial
> > > > > current
> > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
> > Impedence
> > > > > > (resistance)??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the currents
> > > involved
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
> > the
> > > > > earth's
> > > > > > > EMF.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as
the
> > SOI
> > > is
> > > > > > near
> > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
> > regions.
> > > > That
> > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge
> > Doran
> > > > > > waves.
> > > > > > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features in
> the
> > > > > Pacific--
> > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
windless
> > line
> > > > mid
> > > > > > > range.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest
SSTs
> > the
> > > La
> > > > > > Nina
> > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific the
> > > waters
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start
and
> > that
> > > > is
> > > > > > why
> > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs
> > that
> > > > gyre
> > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even
in
> > 3, 4
> > > > due
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just
> > south,
> > > > > SSTS
> > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans
> and
> > > then
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because
> > cold
> > > > > means
> > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is
CLEARLY
> > > > > reflected
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
> > > Carribean.
> > > > > > That
> > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is
> > the
> > > > same
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical
> > regions
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on the
> > > Orinoco
> > > > as
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
> spring
> > > > rains
> > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is
> > > plugged,
> > > > > > guess
> > > > > > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF
> > impeadance
> > > is
> > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This is
> > true
> > > > > whether
> > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or
> pH
> > > > > levels.
> > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This is
> > how
> > > the
> > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac
and
> > a
> > > > delay
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now,
> > making
> > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves
> > coming
> > > > out
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
> > > hydrology
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been
> > able
> > > to
> > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes
to
> > the
> > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta
> and
> > > > > > extending
> > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching,
again,
> > > their
> > > > > > early
> > > > > > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
> > matching
> > > > their
> > > > > > > spring.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is
a
> > > match
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions
w/
> > the
> > > > > West
> > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually
taking
> > > > form.
> > > > > > This
> > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
> > > hemisphere
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
> really
> > > come
> > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm
> > > anomaly
> > > > > > area
> > > > > > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF
standpoint,
> > had
> > > > > Mitch,
> > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
> another
> > > > Mitch
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
change
> > > > > > temperatures
> > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will
> > stall
> > > > and
> > > > > > > flood.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result
> in
> > > more
> > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
> > SSTs,
> > > and
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
from
> > > west
> > > > to
> > > > > > > east
> > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
> > > electrical
> > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
measurable
> > > effect
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
> > > > > significant.
> > > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
<mike@u...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
> > > > correspond
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising,"
> > Poulsen
> > > > > > > > said. "Most
> > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold
> > > periods
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is
> clear
> > > that
> > > > > we
> > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the
> > > tropical
> > > > > > > climate
> > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Comment:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans,
> post
> > > Mt.
> > > > > > > Pinatubo
> > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of
now.
> > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result
> in
> > > more
> > > > > > > > induction
> > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
> in
> > > this
> > > > > > case,
> > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
> > west
> > > to
> > > > > east
> > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs
gyre
> > > around
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
> > > > relatively
> > > > > > > > cooler
> > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the
air
> > > > cleared
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > SOx,
> > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in
the
> > > > > Southern
> > > > > > > > Oceans
> > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around
to
> > > give
> > > > us
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern
> > Hemisphere
> > > =
> > > > > > +0.136�
> > > > > > > > C,
> > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere =
> > +0.217�
> > > > C,
> > > > > > > > Southern
> > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related
> to
> > > what
> > > > > > > warming
> > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
Southern
> > > > Ocean's
> > > > > > > added
> > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west
> to
> > > east
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts
> > > better,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
> oceans
> > > > means
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to
> > current
> > > > > > > > direction .
> > > > > > > > > . .

#1260

From: "pawnfart" <mike@...>
Date: Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:54 pm
Subject: Re: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

pawnfart

Okay.  If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what
happens to the charge on the other end?

Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ.  And quickly that charge
spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in this
case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what?  And if so,
it makes the charge on the front more what?  And so over the
equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will the
ionosphere there become?  Doran waves move by capacitance--hence
impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .

++++++++++++++++++++++



Below is a great link on dust.

I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as the dry
air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the dust
and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air takes
away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.

Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes near
our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
reforms along the Texas coast . . .

The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand point.
What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off the
African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects w/ the
Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF contrast
between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet area is
so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it can
cause instability.

The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.

Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere and no
hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to speak
of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in September, as
someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!

With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs, folks
here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't come
often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this becomes more
mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it all
started.


http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html




--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct Current.
I
> understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
> nonconductor of electric current.
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think you
> may
> > be trying to say.
> >
> > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
> >
> > Do you know how a capaciter works?
> >
> > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface
under
> an
> > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?  What
kind
> > of electrons will be favored on the surface?  What charge will be
> > repelled and what attracted?
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
> > >
> > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
> (within
> > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
> around
> > a
> > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around the
> > > eyewall of the storm...."
> > >
> > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > have been observed, Fred.
> > > >
> > > > And yes, it is a wave feature.  Capacitance, for instance,
> works
> > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
currents,
> > > and
> > >
> > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
> insulative--
> > > just
> > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but
> not
> > > > DC.  Get it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> > > > > electrical.">>
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
> > tropical
> > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)
> > than
> > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with
the
> > > low
> > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a
> large
> > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to
> > > produce
> > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
> rainfall
> > > but
> > > > > less lightning discharges.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
currents
> > > > involved
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
> the
> > > > > earth's
> > > > > > > EMF.">>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
impedance
> is
> > > =
> > > > or
> > > > > > > similar to resistance?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
> Inductance.
> > > > > Hence,
> > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's
EMF
> > but
> > > > > > currents
> > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
> > > > > measurable
> > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
> > > context
> > > > of
> > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.
> What
> > I
> > > am
> > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an
EMF
> in
> > > > that
> > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
> ORGANIZED
> > > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of current
> for
> > > > these
> > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
because
> we
> > > are
> > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's
EMF
> is
> > > > > fairly
> > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.  But
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of
> ocean
> > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
> > > depending
> > > > > on
> > > > > > their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be
> significant
> > > the
> > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran
wave
> > > goes
> > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
> condition!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
> > commenting
> > > on
> > > > > why
> > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
> equator
> > > and
> > > > > my
> > > > > > response:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
> > > development.
> > > > > NOT
> > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
latitudes
> > > all
> > > > > over
> > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
> > > > > development
> > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
> wouldn't "Change"
> > > > during
> > > > > > the year."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence
of
> > > > > formation
> > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply
> never
> > > gets
> > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My response:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far
> > > stated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> > > > electrical.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that
> means
> > > dry
> > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
> > counter
> > > > > blows.
> > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
> > > voltages
> > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
> nothing
> > > more
> > > > > to
> > > > > > impedance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to
> east
> > > > these
> > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
> > > electrons
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic
of
> > > the
> > > > TS
> > > > > > itself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
> > > potentials
> > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
> > > dynamics,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
> cirrus.
> > > No
> > > > > EMF,
> > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > +++++
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to
> > cause
> > > > EMF
> > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that
> EMF
> > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as
dry
> > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means
> that
> > > > youll
> > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
ionosphere
> in
> > > a
> > > > > VERY
> > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
voltages
> > all
> > > > > around
> > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have
IR
> > > values
> > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
> > > doesn't
> > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
> > energy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
> > > tropical
> > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core
> > low,
> > > > with
> > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the
> upper
> > > > > clouds
> > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves
> > being
> > > > more
> > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites
and
> > > > elves,
> > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive
> > > charges
> > > > > > around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that
strike
> > > > > activity
> > > > > > is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere
> is
> > > so
> > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
> > electrons
> > > > > away,
> > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged
> ocean
> > > > > surface.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.
> > > Land,
> > > > > otoh,
> > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
> > moving
> > > > > front
> > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The
> > insulative
> > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
course,
> > is
> > > > all
> > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming
> off
> > > of
> > > > W.
> > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not
> active
> > > > could
> > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
> > > conditions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
> > > > > > electricity.
> > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
> field,
> > > when
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west)
> this
> > > > will
> > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
> > > electricial
> > > > > > current
> > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
> > > Impedence
> > > > > > > (resistance)??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the
currents
> > > > involved
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context
of
> > > the
> > > > > > earth's
> > > > > > > > EMF.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as
> the
> > > SOI
> > > > is
> > > > > > > near
> > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
> > > regions.
> > > > > That
> > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and
huge
> > > Doran
> > > > > > > waves.
> > > > > > > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features
in
> > the
> > > > > > Pacific--
> > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
> windless
> > > line
> > > > > mid
> > > > > > > > range.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest
> SSTs
> > > the
> > > > La
> > > > > > > Nina
> > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific
the
> > > > waters
> > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start
> and
> > > that
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > why
> > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the
SSTs
> > > that
> > > > > gyre
> > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even
> in
> > > 3, 4
> > > > > due
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region,
just
> > > south,
> > > > > > SSTS
> > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
Oceans
> > and
> > > > then
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
because
> > > cold
> > > > > > means
> > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is
> CLEARLY
> > > > > > reflected
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
> > > > Carribean.
> > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that
is
> > > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi tropical
> > > regions
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on
the
> > > > Orinoco
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
> > spring
> > > > > rains
> > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology
is
> > > > plugged,
> > > > > > > guess
> > > > > > > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF
> > > impeadance
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This
is
> > > true
> > > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco
or
> > pH
> > > > > > levels.
> > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!  This
is
> > > how
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac
> and
> > > a
> > > > > delay
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now,
> > > making
> > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH, waves
> > > coming
> > > > > out
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
> > > > hydrology
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't
been
> > > able
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
changes
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the
delta
> > and
> > > > > > > extending
> > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching,
> again,
> > > > their
> > > > > > > early
> > > > > > > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
> > > matching
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > > spring.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there
is
> a
> > > > match
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
conditions
> w/
> > > the
> > > > > > West
> > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually
> taking
> > > > > form.
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
> > > > hemisphere
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
> > really
> > > > come
> > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting
warm
> > > > anomaly
> > > > > > > area
> > > > > > > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF
> standpoint,
> > > had
> > > > > > Mitch,
> > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
> > another
> > > > > Mitch
> > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
> change
> > > > > > > temperatures
> > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s)
will
> > > stall
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > flood.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
<no_reply@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
result
> > in
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
> > > SSTs,
> > > > and
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
> from
> > > > west
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > east
> > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
> > > > electrical
> > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
> measurable
> > > > effect
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to
be
> > > > > > significant.
> > > > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
> <mike@u...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
conditions
> > > > > correspond
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising,"
> > > Poulsen
> > > > > > > > > said. "Most
> > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the
cold
> > > > periods
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is
> > clear
> > > > that
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control
the
> > > > tropical
> > > > > > > > climate
> > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Comment:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans,
> > post
> > > > Mt.
> > > > > > > > Pinatubo
> > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of
> now.
> > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
result
> > in
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > induction
> > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs,
and
> > in
> > > > this
> > > > > > > case,
> > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
from
> > > west
> > > > to
> > > > > > east
> > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs
> gyre
> > > > around
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH,
with
> > > > > relatively
> > > > > > > > > cooler
> > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the
> air
> > > > > cleared
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > SOx,
> > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in
> the
> > > > > > Southern
> > > > > > > > > Oceans
> > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
around
> to
> > > > give
> > > > > us
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
troposphere:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern
> > > Hemisphere
> > > > =
> > > > > > > +0.136�
> > > > > > > > > C,
> > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern Hemisphere
=
> > > +0.217�
> > > > > C,
> > > > > > > > > Southern
> > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
related
> > to
> > > > what
> > > > > > > > warming
> > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
> Southern
> > > > > Ocean's
> > > > > > > > added
> > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from
west
> > to
> > > > east
> > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
inducts
> > > > better,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
> > oceans
> > > > > means
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to
> > > current
> > > > > > > > > direction .
> > > > > > > > > > . .

#1261

From: "b1blancer_29501" <b1blancer1@...>
Date: Wed Jul 31, 2002 4:38 am
Subject: Solar Activity Report for 7/30/02

The long awaited CME from the M-8 flare of 7/26 arrived Monday, and
triggered some brief geomagnetic storm conditions.  Since the passage
of that CME, the solar wind speeds and densities have calmed down a
bit.  Solar activity remains high, however.  The most recent
significant flare was a M-1 event which occurred Tuesday evening.  We
could see another major flare at any time from either sunspot region
39, 44, or 50.  All three of these sunspot groups are located close to
each other, and are all quite large.  There is a coronal hole that is
rotating into an Earth-pointing position.  Although most of this
coronal hole is located in the sun's northern hemispere, parts of it
do extend south to the solar equator.  We could see some solar wind
gusts from it by the end of the week.

The current solar and geomagnetic conditions are :

NOAA sunspot number : 297
SFI : 227
A index : 9
K index : 2

Solar wind speed : 377.8 km/sec
Solar wind density : 1.1 protons/cc
Solar wind pressure : 0.2 nPa

IMF : 5.7 nT
IMF Orientation : 4.0 nT North

Conditions for the last 24 hours :
Space weather for the past 24 hours has been minor. Radio blackouts
reaching the R1 level occurred.

Forecast for the next 24 hours :
Space weather for the next 24 hours is expected to be minor. Radio
blackouts reaching the R1 level are expected.

Solar activity forecast :
Solar activity is expected to be moderate. Isolated M-class flares are
expected from Regions 39 and 44. Either region could produce a major
flare during the period. Region 50 could also produce an isolated
M-class flare during the period.

Geomagnetic activity forecast :
Geomagnetic field activity is expected to be at unsettled levels on 31
July. Field activity is expected to increase to unsettled to active
levels during 01 - 02 August. There is a slight chance for a proton
event during the period.

Recent significant solar flare activity :
31-Jul-2002 0150Z M1.4
29-Jul-2002 1044Z M4.7
29-Jul-2002 0238Z M4.8
29-Jul-2002 0023Z M1.4

#1262

From: fredwx
Date: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:51 pm
Subject: Re: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

fredwx

<<"Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what
happens to the charge on the other end?">>

I would assume at the other end a positive charge would form.

Given your statement <<"Underneath, the charge will have a tendency
to be what?">> I would answer it would tend to become positivly
charged.


<<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">>  You
lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?



--- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> Okay.  If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what
> happens to the charge on the other end?
>
> Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
> charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ.  And quickly that charge
> spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in this
> case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
> Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what?  And if so,
> it makes the charge on the front more what?  And so over the
> equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will the
> ionosphere there become?  Doran waves move by capacitance--hence
> impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
> Below is a great link on dust.
>
> I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as the
dry
> air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the dust
> and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air takes
> away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
>
> Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
near
> our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
> reforms along the Texas coast . . .
>
> The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
point.
> What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off the
> African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects w/
the
> Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF contrast
> between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet area
is
> so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it can
> cause instability.
>
> The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
>
> Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere and
no
> hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to speak
> of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in September,
as
> someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
>
> With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs, folks
> here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't come
> often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this becomes
more
> mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it all
> started.
>
>
> http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
> time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
>
>
>
>
> --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
Current.
> I
> > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
> > nonconductor of electric current.
> >
> >
> > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think
you
> > may
> > > be trying to say.
> > >
> > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
> > >
> > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
> > >
> > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface
> under
> > an
> > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?  What
> kind
> > > of electrons will be favored on the surface?  What charge will
be
> > > repelled and what attracted?
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
> > > >
> > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
> > (within
> > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
> > around
> > > a
> > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around
the
> > > > eyewall of the storm...."
> > > >
> > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
> > > > > have been observed, Fred.
> > > > >
> > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature.  Capacitance, for instance,
> > works
> > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
> currents,
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
> > insulative--
> > > > just
> > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves
but
> > not
> > > > > DC.  Get it?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
are
> > > > > > electrical.">>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
> > > tropical
> > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
strikes)
> > > than
> > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with
> the
> > > > low
> > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a
> > large
> > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds
to
> > > > produce
> > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
> > rainfall
> > > > but
> > > > > > less lightning discharges.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
> currents
> > > > > involved
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context
of
> > the
> > > > > > earth's
> > > > > > > > EMF.">>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
> impedance
> > is
> > > > =
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes it is.  It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
> > Inductance.
> > > > > > Hence,
> > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's
> EMF
> > > but
> > > > > > > currents
> > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
about
> > > > > > measurable
> > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
> > > > context
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.
> > What
> > > I
> > > > am
> > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an
> EMF
> > in
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
> > ORGANIZED
> > > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF.  Hence, direction of
current
> > for
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
> because
> > we
> > > > are
> > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs.  Just by itself, the earth's
> EMF
> > is
> > > > > > fairly
> > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.
But
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of
> > ocean
> > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
> > > > depending
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > their direction.  THEN, this induction sums to be
> > significant
> > > > the
> > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence.  Hence, when a Doran
> wave
> > > > goes
> > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
> > condition!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
> > > commenting
> > > > on
> > > > > > why
> > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
> > equator
> > > > and
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > response:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
> > > > development.
> > > > > > NOT
> > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
> latitudes
> > > > all
> > > > > > over
> > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
limiting
> > > > > > development
> > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
> > wouldn't "Change"
> > > > > during
> > > > > > > the year."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
dependence
> of
> > > > > > formation
> > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply
> > never
> > > > gets
> > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
south."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My response:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so
far
> > > > stated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
> > > > > electrical.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that
> > means
> > > > dry
> > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
> > > counter
> > > > > > blows.
> > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
> > > > voltages
> > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
> > nothing
> > > > more
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > impedance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to
> > east
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
> > > > electrons
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
dynamic
> of
> > > > the
> > > > > TS
> > > > > > > itself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
> > > > potentials
> > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
> > > > dynamics,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
> > cirrus.
> > > > No
> > > > > > EMF,
> > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +++++
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going
to
> > > cause
> > > > > EMF
> > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and
that
> > EMF
> > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as
> dry
> > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
means
> > that
> > > > > youll
> > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
> ionosphere
> > in
> > > > a
> > > > > > VERY
> > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
charges
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
> voltages
> > > all
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have
> IR
> > > > values
> > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
> > > energy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
> > > > tropical
> > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm
core
> > > low,
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the
> > upper
> > > > > > clouds
> > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
themselves
> > > being
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites
> and
> > > > > elves,
> > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
positive
> > > > charges
> > > > > > > around the eye.  Near the eye it is interesting that
> strike
> > > > > > activity
> > > > > > > is rare.  That is because the upper clouds and
ionosphere
> > is
> > > > so
> > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
> > > electrons
> > > > > > away,
> > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged
> > ocean
> > > > > > surface.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
btw.
> > > > Land,
> > > > > > otoh,
> > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
> > > moving
> > > > > > front
> > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.  The
> > > insulative
> > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
> course,
> > > is
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
coming
> > off
> > > > of
> > > > > W.
> > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not
> > active
> > > > > could
> > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
> > > > conditions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes
to
> > > > > > > electricity.
> > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
> > field,
> > > > when
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
west)
> > this
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
> > > > electricial
> > > > > > > current
> > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
> > > > Impedence
> > > > > > > > (resistance)??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
<mike@u...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z).  That is because the
> currents
> > > > > involved
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
context
> of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > earth's
> > > > > > > > > EMF.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific
as
> > the
> > > > SOI
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > near
> > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
> > > > regions.
> > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and
> huge
> > > > Doran
> > > > > > > > waves.
> > > > > > > > > Well, guess what?  There are FOUR tropical features
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > > Pacific--
> > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
> > windless
> > > > line
> > > > > > mid
> > > > > > > > > range.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest
> > SSTs
> > > > the
> > > > > La
> > > > > > > > Nina
> > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow.  Further, in the N. Pacific
> the
> > > > > waters
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
start
> > and
> > > > that
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > why
> > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the
> SSTs
> > > > that
> > > > > > gyre
> > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies
even
> > in
> > > > 3, 4
> > > > > > due
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > this.  YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region,
> just
> > > > south,
> > > > > > > SSTS
> > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
> Oceans
> > > and
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
> because
> > > > cold
> > > > > > > means
> > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus.  This is
> > CLEARLY
> > > > > > > reflected
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
> > > > > Carribean.
> > > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
that
> is
> > > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere.  For the semi
tropical
> > > > regions
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > means early spring.  Now, if there are DAMS now on
> the
> > > > > Orinoco
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
> > > spring
> > > > > > rains
> > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology
> is
> > > > > plugged,
> > > > > > > > guess
> > > > > > > > > what?  The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.  EMF
> > > > impeadance
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.  This
> is
> > > > true
> > > > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
Orinoco
> or
> > > pH
> > > > > > > levels.
> > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!  Cold!
This
> is
> > > > how
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E.
Pac
> > and
> > > > a
> > > > > > delay
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right
now,
> > > > making
> > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.  OTOH,
waves
> > > > coming
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays
of
> > > > > hydrology
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't
> been
> > > > able
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
> changes
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the
> delta
> > > and
> > > > > > > > extending
> > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching,
> > again,
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > > early
> > > > > > > > > spring.  Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
> > > > matching
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > spring.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
there
> is
> > a
> > > > > match
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
> conditions
> > w/
> > > > the
> > > > > > > West
> > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually
> > taking
> > > > > > form.
> > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
> > > > > hemisphere
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
> > > really
> > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting
> warm
> > > > > anomaly
> > > > > > > > area
> > > > > > > > > by Panama.  That is why we have, from an EMF
> > standpoint,
> > > > had
> > > > > > > Mitch,
> > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
> > > another
> > > > > > Mitch
> > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
> > change
> > > > > > > > temperatures
> > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s)
> will
> > > > stall
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > flood.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
> <no_reply@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >  "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
> result
> > > in
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
alters
> > > > SSTs,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
moves
> > from
> > > > > west
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > east
> > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
that
> > > > > electrical
> > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
> > measurable
> > > > > effect
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to
> be
> > > > > > > significant.
> > > > > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
> > <mike@u...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
> conditions
> > > > > > correspond
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
surprising,"
> > > > Poulsen
> > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
> > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the
> cold
> > > > > periods
> > > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it
is
> > > clear
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control
> the
> > > > > tropical
> > > > > > > > > climate
> > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
oceans,
> > > post
> > > > > Mt.
> > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
> > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans
of
> > now.
> > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
> result
> > > in
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > induction
> > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs,
> and
> > > in
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > case,
> > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
> from
> > > > west
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > east
> > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs
> > gyre
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH,
> with
> > > > > > relatively
> > > > > > > > > > cooler
> > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and
the
> > air
> > > > > > cleared
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > SOx,
> > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus
in
> > the
> > > > > > > Southern
> > > > > > > > > > Oceans
> > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
> around
> > to
> > > > > give
> > > > > > us
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
> troposphere:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064�C, (Northern
> > > > Hemisphere
> > > > > =
> > > > > > > > +0.136�
> > > > > > > > > > C,
> > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008�C.)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2�C, (Northern
Hemisphere
> =
> > > > +0.217�
> > > > > > C,
> > > > > > > > > > Southern
> > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183�C.)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
> related
> > > to
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > warming
> > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
> > Southern
> > > > > > Ocean's
> > > > > > > > > added
> > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from
> west
> > > to
> > > > > east
> > > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
> inducts
> > > > > better,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
> > > oceans
> > > > > > means
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due
to
> > > > current
> > > > > > > > > > direction .
> > > > > > > > > > > . .