Hi!
I forgot, go to our home-page  w.w.w. cargo-kraft.se    At the last page
you will find 3 size of semikaplanturbins.
You will find heads, flow and power. On swedish but it will be clear after
some seconds thinking. Later on
we will try to translate. If you have any questins, do not hesitate to call.
Peter



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Hi!
Give me little moore about yor river.
Heads and flow! Whats your needs in power, are you abel to con. to the
grid. Running asynchron-system?
I will give you my idea, from kaplan-look-out.
Yours kaplaner!
Peter Ruyter



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Hi!
As a kaplanturbiners I dont like the thinking of waterweels. They are
tricky to built and
hard to get in proper service. In my place the weels was remoted 1875. And
tthe thing will never be back again.
But... I have comlete drawings and material-list of a smart weelconstruction.
Powerproduktion, try and see.
Are you intrested, give me a mail and faxnumber. I will give you a copy uf
general discrp.
Yours
Peter Ruyter



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Pour un amateur d'énergie hydraulique ...
Il y a un moulin à vendre au Gr.D. de Luxembourg,petit bâtiment en
face d'une ferme,une turbine Francis à bâche spirale est en place 6 à
10 KW à mon avis ... un bon endroit pour un bricoleur.
situé à quelques KM à l'ouest de Wiltz, à 15 KM de Bastogne.

WILLOT  J.L.A.
B - 4520   MOHA       BELGIUM
Tel : 32  85 21 13 94
Fax:  32  85 25 02 54
e-mail : willot@...

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Regarding information on the "Micro-Hydropower Sourcebook, A Practical Guide
to Design and Implementation in Developing Countries", it is available from
ITDG in the UK or Amazon Books as noted by Wim Klunne.  However, for those
in North America, it is considerably cheaper (i.e., half the Amazon price)
to procure it directly through NRECA.  Information is available under the
publications link in http://www.nreca.org/about/international/

Allen

*********************************************************************
Allen R. Inversin
National Rural Electric Cooperative Association (NRECA)
International Programs
4301 Wilson Boulevard
Arlington, VA 22203

Email: allen.inversin@...
Phone:  703-907-5637
Fax:  703-907-5532

For a few photographs and short articles on PV, micro-hydropower,
and rural electrification, see my home page at:

     http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/allen_inversin
Also see the new NRECA home pages and visit the International Programs at:

     http://www.nreca.org/about/international/

*********************************************************************




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Mother Earth News had an article that showed a water wheel for this type of
application. Thewhell was suspended from an overhead beam on pivots so that it
could swing up as the current rose and was somewhat self regulating. This is a
very simple design for small topwater hydro that can be adapted to any stream
that you can span.

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Freeman Deware wrote:
>
>  At 04:40 PM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote:
>  >It is not clear what you have in mind but if it is a undershot waterwheel,
>  >output will be VERY low and be dependent only on the intercepted area.
>  >Therefore, it make virtually no difference whether your flows are 1 foot or
>  >15 feet in depth.  The same is true with a propeller turbine suggested in a
>  >subsequent response.  If you look ion p. 187 in  the Micro-Hydropower
>  >Sourcebook, you'll see that the theoretical energy density of water flowing
>  >at a fairly rapid 1 m/s is 300 W per square meter of intercepted area.  And
>  >any turbine or waterwheel will only be able to harness a small portion of
>  >this.
>  >
>  >Allen
>  >
>  >
>  [...]
>
>  Allen,
>
>  Could you tell me where I could find the "Micro-Hydropower
>  Sourcebook" that you speak of?
>
>  Thanks
>
>  Freeman Deware
>
>  Hydro Resources Inc.
>  1 Main Street
>  Hope, RI 02831
>  (401) 828-0804
>  Fax (401) 826-8804
>

For literature about microhydro see
http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/literature.html. You will also find info
on the book concerned, including a link to Amazon.com

Regards,


Wim Klunne

    =================================================================
     ir W.E. Klunne (biomass and rural energy modeling specialist)
     ITC / rural energy & development (room 4-011)
     PO Box 6, 7500 AA Enschede, the Netherlands

     phone:          +31 53 4874 218 (direct)
                     +31 53 4874 222 (secretary)
     fax:            +31 53 4874 399
     e-mail:         klunne@...

     INTERNET
     rural energy & development    http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
     forest science division       http://www.itc.nl/ha2/forest/
     personal pages                http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
     ================================================================
                           NEW on my internet site:
     micro hydropower pages     http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/
     microhydro discussiongroup http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/#list
     ================================================================

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At 04:40 PM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote:
>It is not clear what you have in mind but if it is a undershot waterwheel,
>output will be VERY low and be dependent only on the intercepted area.
>Therefore, it make virtually no difference whether your flows are 1 foot or
>15 feet in depth.  The same is true with a propeller turbine suggested in a
>subsequent response.  If you look ion p. 187 in  the Micro-Hydropower
>Sourcebook, you'll see that the theoretical energy density of water flowing
>at a fairly rapid 1 m/s is 300 W per square meter of intercepted area.  And
>any turbine or waterwheel will only be able to harness a small portion of
>this.
>
>Allen
>
>
>*********************************************************************
>Allen R. Inversin
>National Rural Electric Cooperative Association (NRECA)
>International Programs
>4301 Wilson Boulevard
>Arlington, VA 22203
>
>Email: allen.inversin@...
>Phone:  703-907-5637
>Fax:  703-907-5532
>
>For a few photographs and short articles on PV, micro-hydropower,
>and rural electrification, see my home page at:
>
>    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/allen_inversin
>Also see the new NRECA home pages and visit the International Programs at:
>
>    http://www.nreca.org/about/international/
>
>*********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Wim Klunne [SMTP:klunne@...]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 1:25 PM
>> To: microhydro@egroups.com
>> Subject: [microhydro] [Fwd: Water wheel power question ]
>>
>> Dear group members,
>>
>> Message underneath originates from the alt.energy.homepower group. Can
>> any of us help?
>>
>> >      Subject:          Water wheel power question
>> >         Date:          Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:37:46 GMT
>> >         From:          Mailman@...
>> > Organization:          FlashNet Communications, http://www.flash.net
>> >   Newsgroups:          alt.energy.homepower
>> >
>> >
>> >   The farm i hope to own someday has a creek running thru it.
>> > I have often thought of building a water wheel to produce power.
>> > The problem is, in the summer the water is hardly running. Normal flow
>> is about
>> > 3 feet wide 1 foot deep. During flood times, the water maybe 15 foot
>> deep and 18
>> > to 25 foot wide. I was thinking of building three columms with a "
>> floating "
>> > platform that the wheel would be attached to. Dead trees and other debri
>> would
>> > have to diverted around the platform.
>> >   I know the power output would vary a great deal. During the flood
>> stages it
>> > would produce more power than i could store. I think i can find a use
>> for it,
>> > running power saws, planners, maybe an electric kiln or welder.
>> >
>> >   Ayone have a simular situation or thoughts ?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Wim Klunne
>>
>>    =================================================================
>>     ir W.E. Klunne (biomass and rural energy modeling specialist)
>>     ITC / rural energy & development (room 4-011)
>>     PO Box 6, 7500 AA Enschede, the Netherlands
>>
>>     phone:          +31 53 4874 218 (direct)
>>                     +31 53 4874 222 (secretary)
>>     fax:            +31 53 4874 399
>>     e-mail:         klunne@...
>>
>>     INTERNET
>>     rural energy & development    http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
>>     forest science division       http://www.itc.nl/ha2/forest/
>>     personal pages                http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
>>     ================================================================
>>                           NEW on my internet site:
>>     micro hydropower pages     http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/
>>     microhydro discussiongroup http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/#list
>>     ================================================================
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/microhydro
>> Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://ads.egroups.com/click/56/0/bottomdollar
>
>
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>
>
>

Allen,

Could you tell me where I could find the "Micro-Hydropower
Sourcebook" that you speak of?

Thanks

Freeman Deware


Hydro Resources Inc.
1 Main Street
Hope, RI 02831
(401) 828-0804
Fax (401) 826-8804

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It is not clear what you have in mind but if it is a undershot waterwheel,
output will be VERY low and be dependent only on the intercepted area.
Therefore, it make virtually no difference whether your flows are 1 foot or
15 feet in depth.  The same is true with a propeller turbine suggested in a
subsequent response.  If you look ion p. 187 in  the Micro-Hydropower
Sourcebook, you'll see that the theoretical energy density of water flowing
at a fairly rapid 1 m/s is 300 W per square meter of intercepted area.  And
any turbine or waterwheel will only be able to harness a small portion of
this.

Allen


*********************************************************************
Allen R. Inversin
National Rural Electric Cooperative Association (NRECA)
International Programs
4301 Wilson Boulevard
Arlington, VA 22203

Email: allen.inversin@...
Phone:  703-907-5637
Fax:  703-907-5532

For a few photographs and short articles on PV, micro-hydropower,
and rural electrification, see my home page at:

     http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/allen_inversin
Also see the new NRECA home pages and visit the International Programs at:

     http://www.nreca.org/about/international/

*********************************************************************





> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wim Klunne [SMTP:klunne@...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 1:25 PM
> To: microhydro@egroups.com
> Subject: [microhydro] [Fwd: Water wheel power question ]
>
> Dear group members,
>
> Message underneath originates from the alt.energy.homepower group. Can
> any of us help?
>
> >      Subject:          Water wheel power question
> >         Date:          Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:37:46 GMT
> >         From:          Mailman@...
> > Organization:          FlashNet Communications, http://www.flash.net
> >   Newsgroups:          alt.energy.homepower
> >
> >
> >   The farm i hope to own someday has a creek running thru it.
> > I have often thought of building a water wheel to produce power.
> > The problem is, in the summer the water is hardly running. Normal flow
> is about
> > 3 feet wide 1 foot deep. During flood times, the water maybe 15 foot
> deep and 18
> > to 25 foot wide. I was thinking of building three columms with a "
> floating "
> > platform that the wheel would be attached to. Dead trees and other debri
> would
> > have to diverted around the platform.
> >   I know the power output would vary a great deal. During the flood
> stages it
> > would produce more power than i could store. I think i can find a use
> for it,
> > running power saws, planners, maybe an electric kiln or welder.
> >
> >   Ayone have a simular situation or thoughts ?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Wim Klunne
>
>    =================================================================
>     ir W.E. Klunne (biomass and rural energy modeling specialist)
>     ITC / rural energy & development (room 4-011)
>     PO Box 6, 7500 AA Enschede, the Netherlands
>
>     phone:          +31 53 4874 218 (direct)
>                     +31 53 4874 222 (secretary)
>     fax:            +31 53 4874 399
>     e-mail:         klunne@...
>
>     INTERNET
>     rural energy & development    http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
>     forest science division       http://www.itc.nl/ha2/forest/
>     personal pages                http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
>     ================================================================
>                           NEW on my internet site:
>     micro hydropower pages     http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/
>     microhydro discussiongroup http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/#list
>     ================================================================
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/microhydro
> Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com

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>> I was thinking of building three columms with a " floating "
>> platform that the wheel would be attached to.
>> Dead trees and other debri would
>> have to diverted around the platform.

Try a propeller type turbine on the end of a long, inclined shaft, trailing
behind the platform.  Then you can keep the electrics etc. above flood
levels.

Hugh



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Dear group members,

Message underneath originates from the alt.energy.homepower group. Can
any of us help?

>      Subject:          Water wheel power question
>         Date:          Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:37:46 GMT
>         From:          Mailman@...
> Organization:          FlashNet Communications, http://www.flash.net
>   Newsgroups:          alt.energy.homepower
>
>
>   The farm i hope to own someday has a creek running thru it.
> I have often thought of building a water wheel to produce power.
> The problem is, in the summer the water is hardly running. Normal flow is
about
> 3 feet wide 1 foot deep. During flood times, the water maybe 15 foot deep and
18
> to 25 foot wide. I was thinking of building three columms with a " floating "
> platform that the wheel would be attached to. Dead trees and other debri would
> have to diverted around the platform.
>   I know the power output would vary a great deal. During the flood stages it
> would produce more power than i could store. I think i can find a use for it,
> running power saws, planners, maybe an electric kiln or welder.
>
>   Ayone have a simular situation or thoughts ?


Regards,

Wim Klunne

    =================================================================
     ir W.E. Klunne (biomass and rural energy modeling specialist)
     ITC / rural energy & development (room 4-011)
     PO Box 6, 7500 AA Enschede, the Netherlands

     phone:          +31 53 4874 218 (direct)
                     +31 53 4874 222 (secretary)
     fax:            +31 53 4874 399
     e-mail:         klunne@...

     INTERNET
     rural energy & development    http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
     forest science division       http://www.itc.nl/ha2/forest/
     personal pages                http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
     ================================================================
                           NEW on my internet site:
     micro hydropower pages     http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/
     microhydro discussiongroup http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/#list
     ================================================================

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>Can any one tell me if 5"hi-voll rubber jacketed fire hose would be
> suficient for a penstock I have 1000 feet of it available to me.
>I am thinking of portable for work camps that move.

Sounds useful to me.  For example if you can find 100 feet of head
(vertical drop) over that 1000 feet of pipe, and you extract 200 US gallons
per minute, then you can produce 2kW of net electrical power.

(About 10% of the gross power is lost in the pipe, and a further 35% of
what remains is assumed to be lost in the turbine/generator.)

Of course I haven't actually tried it :-)

Hugh



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Can any one tell me if 5"hi-voll rubber jacketed fire hose would be
  suficient for a penstock I have 1000 feet of it available to me.
I am thinking of portable for work camps that move.

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Hi !

Try this company:

http://www.powerflow.co.nz/products.htm

Best regards,

Ola Tambour
Rossle kvarn, Frodinge
598 95 Vimmerby
Sweden
Phone: +46 492 40049
E-mail: ola_tambour@...

>From: "Angeles, V.A  (T&M)" <a.v.angeles@...>
>To: "'microhydro@egroups.com'" <microhydro@egroups.com>
>Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:04:38 +0100
>X-Priority: 3
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49)
>Subject: [microhydro] Re: Electronic load controller for micro-hydro
schem
> es with 3~20kW synchronous generators :
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hello folks,
>
>Kindly let me know of off-the-shelf electronic load controllers for
>micro-hydro schemes with 3~20kW synchronous generators.  I need to
>communicate to them.  Thanks a lot.
>
>Lito Angeles
>A.V.Angeles@...
>Enschede, The Netherlands
>
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>


______________________________________________________

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Hello folks,

I am wondering how I could contact these very good microhydro people
from UK.  I lost communication with them.  I hope you could help me meet
these people again for talks on microhydro in the Philippines.

These good guys are Adam Harvey, Andy Brown, and Nigel Smith.

In addition to Wim Klunne whom I will talk to in one of these coming
days, could you kindly name other friendly folks who works on microhydro
here in Europe whom I could possibly meet for discussions?

Thanks a lot.


Lito Angeles
UT-TDG
Enschede, Nederlands

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Hello folks,

Kindly let me know of off-the-shelf electronic load controllers for
micro-hydro schemes with 3~20kW synchronous generators.  I need to
communicate to them.  Thanks a lot.

Lito Angeles
A.V.Angeles@...
Enschede, The Netherlands

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Sorry for sending the attachment...did not know it was not
ok...you might want to post it to your site, as it is
the only and best <g> one that I have found..anyone who
is planning a microhydro site would find it useful...

Also have a freeware conversion program, used to wear my
fingers out on calculator before I found it...if you like
can send it to you for posting....thanks for the list...
steve opelc



Wim Klunne wrote:
>
> Dear members,
>
> It gives me a good feeling seeing the number of messages and the topics
> being discussed in this group. It really looks like there was a need for
> a group like this.
>
> I appreciate some members sending scanned images and full software
> programs. However, not all members might be equaly interested in
> receiving these. To reduce download times for those I would like to
> propose that we limit the number of attachments sent. If you have
> additional information that you normally would have send as an
> attachment please invite individual members to request you to send it
> directly to them. Alternatively you can send it to me. I can make it
> availabe on my website. In your eGroup-posting you can refer to the page
> I already prepared for that (http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/egroup/)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wim
>
>    =================================================================
>     ir W.E. Klunne (biomass and rural energy modeling specialist)
>     ITC / rural energy & development (room 4-011)
>     PO Box 6, 7500 AA Enschede, the Netherlands
>
>     phone:          +31 53 4874 218 (direct)
>                     +31 53 4874 222 (secretary)
>     fax:            +31 53 4874 399
>     e-mail:         klunne@...
>
>     INTERNET
>     rural energy & development    http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
>     forest science division       http://www.itc.nl/ha2/forest/
>     personal pages                http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
>     ================================================================
>                           NEW on my internet site:
>     micro hydropower pages     http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/
>     microhydro discussiongroup http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/#list
>     ================================================================
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For the absolute lowest price on software visit:
> http://www.bottomdollar.com/egroups/
>
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Dear members,

It gives me a good feeling seeing the number of messages and the topics
being discussed in this group. It really looks like there was a need for
a group like this.

I appreciate some members sending scanned images and full software
programs. However, not all members might be equaly interested in
receiving these. To reduce download times for those I would like to
propose that we limit the number of attachments sent. If you have
additional information that you normally would have send as an
attachment please invite individual members to request you to send it
directly to them. Alternatively you can send it to me. I can make it
availabe on my website. In your eGroup-posting you can refer to the page
I already prepared for that (http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/egroup/)

Best regards,

Wim


    =================================================================
     ir W.E. Klunne (biomass and rural energy modeling specialist)
     ITC / rural energy & development (room 4-011)
     PO Box 6, 7500 AA Enschede, the Netherlands

     phone:          +31 53 4874 218 (direct)
                     +31 53 4874 222 (secretary)
     fax:            +31 53 4874 399
     e-mail:         klunne@...

     INTERNET
     rural energy & development    http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
     forest science division       http://www.itc.nl/ha2/forest/
     personal pages                http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
     ================================================================
                           NEW on my internet site:
     micro hydropower pages     http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/
     microhydro discussiongroup http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/#list
     ================================================================

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Am attaching a micro-hydro software program that you may be able to
use...
fill in the blocks and it does the calculations for you...seems to be
fairly
accurate...you can enter either english or metric units...read
pc-hydro.doc
to get all the info....

In order to move between the blocks use the arrow keys on your
keypad...will
not work with enter, or your normal arrow keys...

It is a DOS program, fairly old but works under windows 95....you do
not have
to be in DOS...

Also you will find a file I made up called "valve.txt"....it shows the
approximate resistance of common valves (however you may have to
convert
to metric)

Any problems let me know...hope this helps you, or someone else
<g>....steve opelc



> > Hi !
> >
> > My name is Ola Tambour and I recently bought and old mill in Sweden. My
> > plans is to build a micro hydro power installation there. The head is
> > approx. 6 metres and the flow between 100 litres/second up to about 1000
> > litres/second in the spring. The penstock needs to be about 50 metres.
> > In my region there are lots of abandoned mills with horisontal francis
> > turbines. I will try to buy one of these and try to fix it up.
> >
> > My question for now:
> > Does anyone have a formula for calculating losses in penstocks ??
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Ola Tambour

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Hi,

> The head is
>approx. 6 metres and the flow between 100 litres/second up to about 1000
>litres/second in the spring. The penstock needs to be about 50 metres.

for 100litres/second you need minimum 200mm diameter - 3kW output
for 1000litres/second you need minimum 500mm diameter - 30kW.

In these cases you will lose 20-30% of the power in the pipe.. It would be
better to use maybe 20% larger pipe diameter if you can.  Ths brings the
head loss down to about 10%.

Hugh



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I have attached two adobe PDF files of MathCad worksheet
examples calculating losses in pipe flow.  It would be
difficult to size the pipe and turbine for both 100 l/sec
and 1000 l/sec.  You might want to talk to Peter Ruyter,
turbin@... ( http://www.cargo-kraft.se ) about
one of his beautiful new Kaplan turbines.  I'll also
attach a scanned image of some old Sulzer Kaplan turbines.

	 Joe


>
> From: "Ola Tambour" <ola_tambour@...>
> Subject: [microhydro] Presentation
> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 02:18:56 PST
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Hi !
>
> My name is Ola Tambour and I recently bought and old mill in Sweden. My
> plans is to build a micro hydro power installation there. The head is
> approx. 6 metres and the flow between 100 litres/second up to about 1000
> litres/second in the spring. The penstock needs to be about 50 metres.
> In my region there are lots of abandoned mills with horisontal francis
> turbines. I will try to buy one of these and try to fix it up.
>
> My question for now:
> Does anyone have a formula for calculating losses in penstocks ??
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ola Tambour
> Rossle kvarn, frodinge
> 598 95 Vimmerby
> Sweden
> Phone: +46 492 400 49
> E-mail: ola_tambour@...
>

--
Joseph Hartvigsen, ChE
Ceramatec/SOFCo Solid Oxide Fuel Cells
2425 South 900 West
Salt Lake City, Utah 84119

(801) 978-2163 voice
(801) 972-1925 fax

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Hello Ola,

If you can take a look at this book: Irrigation Principles and Practices
by Israelsen & Hanzen (American book).  There is a very good chapter
there for even the finer points of what you want to know on head losses
through pipes.

I hope this will also help you in addition to the one that will be
mailed by Wim.

Regards...

Lito Angeles
A.V.Angeles@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ola Tambour [SMTP:ola_tambour@...]
> Sent: vrijdag 8 januari 1999 11:19
> To: microhydro@egroups.com
> Subject: [microhydro] Presentation
>
> Hi !
>
> My name is Ola Tambour and I recently bought and old mill in Sweden.
> My
> plans is to build a micro hydro power installation there. The head is
> approx. 6 metres and the flow between 100 litres/second up to about
> 1000
> litres/second in the spring. The penstock needs to be about 50 metres.
>
> In my region there are lots of abandoned mills with horisontal francis
>
> turbines. I will try to buy one of these and try to fix it up.
>
> My question for now:
> Does anyone have a formula for calculating losses in penstocks ??
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ola Tambour
> Rossle kvarn, frodinge
> 598 95 Vimmerby
> Sweden
> Phone: +46 492 400 49
> E-mail: ola_tambour@...
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ola Tambour wrote:
>
>  Hi !
>
>  My name is Ola Tambour and I recently bought and old mill in Sweden. My
>  plans is to build a micro hydro power installation there. The head is
>  approx. 6 metres and the flow between 100 litres/second up to about 1000
>  litres/second in the spring. The penstock needs to be about 50 metres.
>  In my region there are lots of abandoned mills with horisontal francis
>  turbines. I will try to buy one of these and try to fix it up.
>
>  My question for now:
>  Does anyone have a formula for calculating losses in penstocks ??
>

Dear Ola,

There is no straight formula for calculating losses in penstocks. The
losses are related to the (gross) head, flow, diameter of penstock,
penstock material, lenght of penstock, layout of penstock (number of
bends and contractions).
I will send you by postal mail some photocopies of Adam Harvey's
Micro-hydro design manual with information on these calculations.

Regards,

Wim

     =============================================================
     ir W.E. Klunne (rural energy specialist)
     ITC / rural energy & development (room 4-011)
     PO Box 6, 7500 AA Enschede, the Netherlands

     phone:          +31 53 4874 218 (direct)
                     +31 53 4874 222 (secretary)
     fax:            +31 53 4874 399
     e-mail:         klunne@...

     INTERNET
     rural energy & development    http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
     forest science division       http://www.itc.nl/ha2/forest/
     personal pages                http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
     =============================================================
             NEW on my internet site: energy situation in
       Botswana (http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/botswana/energy.html)
       Zimbabwe (http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/zimbabwe/energy.html)
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Hi !

My name is Ola Tambour and I recently bought and old mill in Sweden. My
plans is to build a micro hydro power installation there. The head is
approx. 6 metres and the flow between 100 litres/second up to about 1000
litres/second in the spring. The penstock needs to be about 50 metres.
In my region there are lots of abandoned mills with horisontal francis
turbines. I will try to buy one of these and try to fix it up.

My question for now:
Does anyone have a formula for calculating losses in penstocks ??

Best regards,

Ola Tambour
Rossle kvarn, frodinge
598 95 Vimmerby
Sweden
Phone: +46 492 400 49
E-mail: ola_tambour@...


______________________________________________________

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Dear group members,

Thank you very much for joining this group.

The response on my e-mails and newsgroup postings was overwhelming. More
than 80 persons visited my micro hydropower web page up till now and
more than 20 persons are now subscribed to the microhydro eGroup.

As you might have noticed messages distributed through this eGroup are
easily recognizable by the [microhydro] prefix of the messages. The
eGroups server automatically adds this. You also might have noticed the
advertisements at the bottom of messages sent through this group. That's
the burden we have to pay for using the free service of eGroups.com. I
apologize for that and hope you don't get too annoyed by it.

I really appreciated the first messages sent to the group by Joseph
Hartvigsen. Please feel free to react on his postings.
I would like to invite all of you to participate actively in this group.
Perhaps it's a good idea for each of us to introduce ourselves to the
other group members.

As initiator of this group I am the "list owner". This actually means
that I have the authority to approve all requests for admission to this
group and that I am able to remove someone from the list. Normally when
you would like to leave the list you can arrange this yourself as
described in the welcome message you received. I hope I do not need to
remove anyone from the group. However, I will not hesitate to make use
of this authority in case someone is abusing this group for spam or not
relevant postings.

I hope you will enjoy being a member of the group.

Best regards,


Wim Klunne

    ==============================================================
     ir W.E. Klunne (rural energy specialist)
     ITC / rural energy & development (room 4-011)
     PO Box 6, 7500 AA Enschede, the Netherlands

     phone:          +31 53 4874 218 (direct)
                     +31 53 4874 222 (secretary)
     fax:            +31 53 4874 399
     e-mail:         klunne@...

     INTERNET
     rural energy & development  http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
     micro hydropower            http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/
     personal pages              http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
     =============================================================
             NEW on my internet site: energy situation in
       Botswana (http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/botswana/energy.html)
       Zimbabwe (http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/zimbabwe/energy.html)
     =============================================================

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We built a system using an ES&D 10 cm plastic pelton runner which
I purchased through a local place.  The system is on the family farm
in the mountains of south eastern Idaho.  My father had just put up
a new house on the farm as his full time home when I started this.
It is miles from power lines so we had to set up a system of our
own.  He started with a Trace 2624SB inverter and 4 Trojan L-16
batteries charged by an 8kW Miller welder generator running on
propane.  I am a bit slow getting the system completed.  The
batteries gave out and were replaced last year with 12 large surplus
2V cells from a mountain top radio installation.  The generator is
now 5 years old and is on its 2nd engine with 3000-4000 hours total
time.  We have got some power from the hydro system but it is not
delivering at full potential yet.

   We started work on the hydro system in the fall of 95 when we put
in the pipe.  We put in about 1/4 to 1/3 mile (0.4-0.5 km) of 6"
(15cm) PVC to get about 92' (28 m) of head.  The pipe is buried at
least 4' (1.2 m)deep, much deeper in a few spots to maintain grade.
The first 20' (6 m) length is 18" (45 cm) diameter with hundreds of
0.5" (12 mm) holes.  It was put in a trench parallel to the stream
and covered with rock for our intake structure.  This way we did not
have to excavate or pour concrete in the stream bed.  When we were
ready for water, a few shovel strokes (human powered) let water run
over the intake and back into the natural stream bed again.  We then
had a few lengths of 8" (20 cm) pipe and an air vent riser before
going to 6" (15 cm) for the rest of the run.  Near the bottom the
pipe crossed the stream under a culvert.  The pipe was terminated
with a thrust block of 2 yards (~ m^3) of concrete which also served
as the foundation and floor for a small (3.5'x4.5') powerhouse.  A
2" (5 cm) drain line extends out in line with the main line and a 3"
(8 cm) riser comes up at one end of the slab.  Next to the riser, a
7" deep by 14" wide channel in the concrete floor directs the water
back to the stream.  The battery bank and inverter are in an old
military surplus aluminum "radar shack" near the house, 700-800'
(230 m) away.  A direct burial #10 AWG 10-2-G cable was installed
between the powerhouse and the radar shack.

   I used a surplus 3hp 208V induction motor that I got free from
work as the generator.  It is mounted on a ~18" (0.5 m) pedestal
(shaft horizontal) to allow room for a nozzle above and below.  The
shaft extends through a Plexiglas wall to keep water off the motor.
The water comes up into a PVC cross.  A pressure relief valve and
pressure gauge are on the top of the cross.  From the two sides the
water goes out, up on one side, down on the other, out toward the
generator then turns to the tangent of the pelton runner.  Most of
the joints are glued but there are enough threaded joints to give 3
axis of motion to align them.  It stays 3" until the last straight
sections to the nozzles reduces to 1-1/2" where it goes to ball
valves and replaceable brass nozzles.  There are a few problems with
this compared to a commercial ES&D turgo or Harris pelton.  I didn't
get it exactly right so the two nozzle "arms" are parallel but
offset about 0.5".  This makes the upper nozzle jet always hit
inboard (motor side) of the splitter on the pelton runner.  The
lower "arm" flow path (over-down-over-up) tends to collect debris
until the nozzle plugs.  Alignment can be like taking a very cold,
very strong shower (unless the big drain valve is open for 5 min
first).

   The pipe and concrete were done late 95.  I put in the generator,
nozzles, pelton, etc.  and started it up late spring 96.  My brother
in law was making a LCB (switch mode buck DC-DC converter) which he
tried and fried on Thanksgiving Day (Nov) 96.  After a succession of
failures he put in an old industrial 24V transformer based charger
about Labor Day in 97, our first power to the batteries.  We just
got 5A for a couple of months until it was discovered (about
Thanksgiving 97) that the lower nozzle was plugged.  After cleaning
and aligning the nozzles, he got 15-16A.  Then a new problem came
up.  Due to my father's watt watching the batteries overcharged, the
inverter shut off due to high voltage which only made it worse.  The
charger had a regulator in it, but it was designed for fixed voltage
input.  Here, as the regulator squeezed off the current, the input
voltage would go up making the regulator work even harder.  My
solution was to take the "window watcher" circuit in Home Power
Magazine and have it trigger an AC solid state relay which would
connect a load across the AC to put the brakes on the generator.
The load was an old heating element from an electric clothes dryer
which we mounted on the aluminum wall of the radar shack by the
charger.  This worked until about this past Labor Day when the
overworked regulator in the charger burned out.  We just need to
bypass it as it isn't effective and only fights itself.


   A little over a year ago I started looking into LCB type systems
for my work.  We are developing fuel cell systems and want to
control the fuel cell voltage.  We purchased two units from
SunSelector.  They are nice but not quite what we need.  We had a
consultant design and build custom units for us.  It is a two part
design.  We have a control board that works for a wide range of
systems and a power module which is made for the needed voltage and
current.  The consultant had some left over parts when we were done
and made me a control board.  I built a power module a blew it up
about a year ago, and a few times since.  The consultant, in helping
me with the farm system figured out problems which also affect our
SOFC units at higher voltages.  We redesigned the board and are just
getting the new ones.  It has fixed problems we were having with
higher voltage fuel cell systems, and I expect it will work well
with my hydro system too.  The hydro system is much more challenging
to the electronics than the current fuel cells.  Our biggest fuel
cell will be 100-110VDC while the 265VAC hydro goes to ~360VDC at
open circuit.  It also has considerable kinetic energy to be
absorbed as voltage (speed) is changed.  Otherwise, they both have a
nice linear I-V curve and parabolic power curve.  I may test it on
the hydro later this month.  It's a shame to have all that
investment in pipe and trenching and still have to run the generator
so much.

   The nozzle alignment (and possibly the shallow bucket design) are
hurting performance considerably.  There are two attachments which
are both in acrobat format.  One shows my calculations estimating
that power should be at least close to 800W at the battery (92' eff
head 2 nozzles 0.5").  The other shows single (upper nozzle)
performance.  This was measured AC across two phases with resistors
at the radar shack.  Two nozzle OCV (freewheel voltage) is 265V AC.
I didn't measure the I-V curve with both nozzles but if I cut the
single nozzle slope in half and start at 265V I get a peak power of
~400W.  This is also the best power we have seen DC to the battery
(16A).

   I have built a 16 bucket turgo with "spoons" from Cargo&Kraft
http://www.cargo-kraft.se/ with a 15 cm hydraulic diameter.  I may
get a chance to try the turgo runner in a few weeks.  I can send a
jpeg picture if there is any interest.  I also have some pictures of
old Sulzer turbines if there is any interest.

   I'm curious how much a new ES&D bronze turgo might put out with
this head and two 0.5" nozzles?  I also wonder if a permanent magnet
or induction generator would be best for high voltage transmission?
Another design choice relates to AC vs.  DC transmission.  What are
the pros and cons of AC->transformer, or DC-> buck regulator?  I've
been doing some calculations recently on how to size transformers
and choke filters if there is interest.  I have a list of resources
on this I'll post separately.

	 Thanks to Wim Klune for starting this list.

	 Joe


--
Joseph Hartvigsen, ChE
Ceramatec/SOFCo Solid Oxide Fuel Cells
2425 South 900 West
Salt Lake City, Utah 84119  USA

(801) 978-2163 voice
(801) 972-1925 fax

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This list is not really up to date.


Info on small scale hydro-power
-------------------------------

Magazines
---------

Home Power Magazine
P.O. Box 520
Ashland, OR 97520

richard.perez@...

INTERNET ARCHIVE
Home Power Magazine back issues are at
ftp://Sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/environment/alternative-energy/
energy-resources/homepower-magazine
Back issues also are available on CD-ROM

Home Power magazine home page
http://www.igc.apc.org/hp/

Other web pages
http://www.infosphere.com/rof/yp/utilfree/utilfree.html
http://www.jademountain.com/
http://www.nahydro.com/micro.html
http://www.alt-energy.com/
http://www.osti.gov/html/eren/13.html

Books
-----

"How to build and operate your own small hydro-electric powerplant"
Butler, J. George, Tab Books, Blue Ridge Summit, PA 1982
ISBN 0-8306-0065-5
ISBN 0-8306-1417-6 pbk.

Government Publications
-----------------------

Energy, Mines and Resources Canada.
"Canadian Small Hydropower Handbook:  British Columbia Region."
Efficiency and Alternative Energy Technology Branch,
Energy, Mines and Resources Canada, Ottawa, Ontario. 1989 (764 pp.)
ISBN. 0-662-17178-0

Copies may be obtained from:

Efficiency and Alternative Energy Technology Branch
Energy, Mines and Resources Canada
580 Booth Street, 7th Floor
Ottawa, Ont.
K1A 0E4

or

Document Delivery Service
Library and Document Services Division
CANMET
Energy, Mines and Resources Canada
562 Booth Street
Ottawa, Ont.
K1A 0G1

Many state energy offices have information
packages relative to small hydro.


Equipment Suppliers
-------------------

Daniel A. New
Canyon Industries
P.O. Box 574
Deming, Washington 98244
(206) 592-5552

Paul Cunningham
Energy Systems & Design
POB 1557, Sussex, N.B.
Canada EOE 1PO
(506) 433-3151

Don Harris
Harris Hydroelectric
632 Swanton Road
Davenport, CA 95017 USA
(408) 425-7652

William Kitching
Small Hydroelectric Systems & Equipment
5141 Wickersham Road
ACME, WA 98220 USA
(206) 595-2312

bob-o.schultze@...
Li'l-Otto (a very small unit ~50-100W )

Catalogs
--------

Jade Mountain (Catalog)
PO BOX 4616
Boulder, CO 8030?
fax (303) 449-8266
75442.1622@...            Steve Troy at Jade Mountain Inc.

Real Goods (Catalog)
realgood@... - Brenda
800-762-7325

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(sorry for cross postings)

                     HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF YOU!!!


Dear colleagues, friends, and other interested people,

On the internet several energy related discussion groups exist ranging
from homepower, stoves, bioenergy, alternative energy to solar energy.
Up till now no discussion list existed specifically dedicated to micro
hydropower.
As I am of the opinion that the exchange of information can benefit all
of us, I took the initiative of starting a discussion list on
run-of-the-river hydropower schemes. The purpose of this list is
exchange of information on technical as well as non technical issues
concerning micro hydro. The list will facilitate exchange of
information, finding answers to micro hydro related questions,
announcing relevant activities (conferences, news flashes, software
releases, book reviews etc., etc.) and of course making friends.

To subscribe to this new list, send a message to
microhydro-subscribe@egroups.com, or fill in your address at
http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/index.html#list

Hope to welcome you soon at the micro hydro list!

Best regards,



Wim Klunne


PS for information on micro hydro, visit my MHP pages at
http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/

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Small Hydro in Ontario is Appealing Taxes

A conference of the Independent Power Producers Society of
Ontario was told that Ontario assesses 60% of a small hydro site
for taxes, versus 10% for a cogen facility, making property taxes
often the highest operating cost for small hydro owners.  Brad
Nixon, a lawyer with Poole Milligan, argued that taxes should be
based on average production, and should mimic the Quebec flat
rate of 3% of gross revenue from the power produced at any site.
In Quebec, the rate for private operators is the same as for Hydro
Quebec while, in Ontario, he said private operators pay 25 to 50
times the equivalent rate assessed on Ontario Hydro.
Another IPPSO session called for de-regulation of the power
sector to recognize that some renewable energies are not
dispatchable in the short run, and that rules are needed to
respect that difference.  Natural Resources Canada will soon
release a study on the estimated levelized cost of energy; a draft
copy shows that small hydro ranges from 4.1¢ to 7.1¢ per kWh
(96$), landfill gas is 3.6 to 4.3¢, wind is 5.4 to 9.4¢/kWh, and
photovoltaics range from 65.1 to 113.9¢.


     =============================================================
     rural energy & development    http://www.itc.nl/ha2/energy/
     forest science division       http://www.itc.nl/ha2/forest/
     personal pages                http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/
     =============================================================
             NEW on my internet site: energy situation in
       Botswana (http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/botswana/energy.html)
       Zimbabwe (http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/zimbabwe/energy.html)
     =============================================================
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