I will in the near furture move this list to mingw-users@....

  I should be able to add all current subscribers, however, the mode will be to

receive individual mails.  When I move the list you will receive a confirmation

from mingw-users@... giving you a user password which you can

then change.  At that time you'll want to check the method of mail delivery as

everyone will be set to receive individual mails.



If you do not wish to be moved, then unsubscribe from this list today.



Cheers,



=====

--- <http://earniesystems.safeshopper.com> ---

    Earnie Boyd: <mailto:earnie_boyd@...>

             __Cygwin: POSIX on Windows__

Cygwin Newbies: <http://gw32.freeyellow.com/>

            __Minimalist GNU for Windows__

   Mingw32 List: <http://www.egroups.com/group/mingw32/>

     Mingw Home: <http://www.mingw.org/>



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!

http://mail.yahoo.com/

I have reset all subscribers to individual email in order to be certain that

all of you have this notice.



Not before 17:00 EDT on Wednesday, September 5th, I will move this list to

mingw-users@....  You do not need to register at

mingw-users@..., I will add your name.  At the same time I

will update each account at mingw32@egroups.com to not receive any mail and

adjust that list so that posters receive an automatic notice about the move.



TIA,

Earnie.



--- Earnie Boyd <earnie_boyd@...> wrote:

> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 06:16:28 -0700 (PDT)

> From: Earnie Boyd <earnie_boyd@...>

> Subject: **PRE-ANNOUNCEMENT** Mail list move.

> To: mingw32@egroups.com

>

> I will in the near furture move this list to

> mingw-users@....

>  I should be able to add all current subscribers, however, the mode will be

> to

> receive individual mails.  When I move the list you will receive a

> confirmation

> from mingw-users@... giving you a user password which you

> can

> then change.  At that time you'll want to check the method of mail delivery

> as

> everyone will be set to receive individual mails.

>

> If you do not wish to be moved, then unsubscribe from this list today.

>

> Cheers,

>

> =====

> --- <http://earniesystems.safeshopper.com> ---

>    Earnie Boyd: <mailto:earnie_boyd@...>

>             __Cygwin: POSIX on Windows__

> Cygwin Newbies: <http://gw32.freeyellow.com/>

>            __Minimalist GNU for Windows__

>   Mingw32 List: <http://www.egroups.com/group/mingw32/>

>     Mingw Home: <http://www.mingw.org/>

>

> __________________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!

> http://mail.yahoo.com/

>





__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!

http://mail.yahoo.com/

Just curious: why is the list being moved?



Earnie Boyd wrote:



...

> Not before 17:00 EDT on Wednesday, September 5th, I will move this list to

> mingw-users@....  You do not need to register at

> mingw-users@..., I will add your name.  At the

...



_____________________

Patrick Hubers

phubers@...



Solve IT

Postbus 5063

3502 JB Utrecht

Netherlands

fax +31-20-8820913

----- Original Message -----

From: "Patrick Hubers" <phubers@...>

To: <mingw32@egroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 9:49 AM

Subject: RE: [mingw] Re: **PRE-ANNOUNCEMENT** Mail list move.







^

|

For *that* reason, maybe ?



> Just curious: why is the list being moved?

--- Hervé PARISSI <hparissi@...> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Patrick Hubers" <phubers@...>

> To: <mingw32@egroups.com>

> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 9:49 AM

> Subject: RE: [mingw] Re: **PRE-ANNOUNCEMENT** Mail list move.

>

>

>

> ^

> |

> For *that* reason, maybe ?

>



If you mean the ADVERTISEMENT banner, yes it is one of the reasons.



> > Just curious: why is the list being moved?

>



I've contemplated moving the list for more than six months.  It makes since to

have it with the web site.  And the move of the flashing banners to the top of

the mail just aggrevates me enough to finally do it.



Cheers,



=====

--- <http://earniesystems.safeshopper.com> ---

    Earnie Boyd: <mailto:earnie_boyd@...>

             __Cygwin: POSIX on Windows__

Cygwin Newbies: <http://gw32.freeyellow.com/>

            __Minimalist GNU for Windows__

   Mingw32 List: <http://www.egroups.com/group/mingw32/>

     Mingw Home: <http://www.mingw.org/>



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!

http://mail.yahoo.com/

Earnie Boyd wrote:



> I've contemplated moving the list for more than six months.  It

> makes since to

> have it with the web site.  And the move of the flashing banners

> to the top of

> the mail just aggrevates me enough to finally do it.



Hmm, yes. I almost forgot that the Mingw site moved there too. But moving

the list just because of the ad banners seemed like overkill to me. More

hassle than it would be worth. But I see your point. Thanks.



_____________________

Patrick Hubers

phubers@...



Solve IT

Postbus 5063

3502 JB Utrecht

Netherlands

fax +31-20-8820913

Hello,



> I've contemplated moving the list for more than six months.  It makes

since to

> have it with the web site.  And the move of the flashing banners to the

top of

> the mail just aggrevates me enough to finally do it.



Since you are not the only one using the list, is it not better to ask how

others

feel about it?

The flexibility eGroups offers makes me like it, banners or not. After all,

they

need to survive too, and pay their bills.



Regards,

Paul.

Hello Paul,



Paul Selormey <paul@...> wrote:





PS> Hello,



>> I've contemplated moving the list for more than six months.  It makes

PS> since to

>> have it with the web site.  And the move of the flashing banners to the

PS> top of

>> the mail just aggrevates me enough to finally do it.



PS> Since you are not the only one using the list, is it not better to ask how

PS> others

PS> feel about it?

PS> The flexibility eGroups offers makes me like it, banners or not. After all,

PS> they

PS> need to survive too, and pay their bills.



     Just to make point more clear: Earnie Boyd and Dale Handerson are

"owners" (in eGroups terms) of current maillist. They are persons in

position to start such move. Decision to do the relocation of list to

sourceforge was made by current admins of Mingw project, see

http://sourceforge.net/mingw/ for who's who. Since relocation will be

transparent for subscribers, I see no grounds for discontent.



     As for eGroups, it does great job for allowing people easily start

their discussion forums, and we used their services for a long time

with appreciation. However, now we are reaching the new level and

having more freedom and control (that's what SourceForge gives) will

be benificial.



     For last, about features SF maillist will have. List will be run

by GNU Mailman. It offers all usual majordomo capabilities, such as

immediate/digested delivery, pause, etc. What it does not offer (at least

AFAIK) is web-based access (to list's messages, I mean). However,

that's not problem since list will archived by www.geocrawler.com . The

latter should have web-posting ability too, I believe.



     So, there's hardly be any feature lacking with new maillist, and

most people probably simply won't notice movement at all ;-)





      Last note about Mingw project itself: its our project, and won't

run without our own attention. So, everyone is welcome. If you have

some ideas how to make Mingw live and develop, and going to spend time

on this, send mail to Earnie Boyd or just post here (well, there - to

new maillist ;-) ). Even if you just spotted bug or made little patch

which allowed for more smooth compilation, please consider spending

couple of minutes to post it in appropriate project section at SF (Well,

to be precise, we didn't discussed precise bug/patch flow procedure,

so any comments welcome).





PS> Regards,

PS> Paul.





--

Paul Sokolovsky, IT Specialist

http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=11135

Paul Selormey wrote:

> The flexibility eGroups offers makes me like it, banners or not.



I run several mail lists. An important issue to consider is the

the time it will require to keep the list running. The list should

not take a step backwards because of this--the new list should offer

all of the functionality of eGroups. Otherwise, the membership will

see this move as having personal motivations rather than the good

of the group at heart.



Surely the natural progression of any large organization is to bring

mail list management in-house for better control and flexibility.

Are we now of that size? Is there enough volunteer time to handle this

without decreasing activity in other areas? These are the questions

that should be addressed when attempting to achieve a mutually agreeable

decision that will serve the entire membership.



                               ,,,

                              (oo)

   ----------------------o0Oo-(_)-oO0o-----------------------

   |    John F. Masinter      Total Business Computing Inc. |

   |    V: (770) 886-9100            F: (770) 886-9619      |

   | mailto:john@...        http://www.totalb.com    |

   |     P.O. Box 88584               Atlanta, GA 30356     |

   ------------------------ooO--Ooo--------------------------

Hello,

How come this never came with the banner? Some tricks there?



Regards,

Paul.



----- Original Message -----

From: "John F. Masinter" <john@...>

To: <mingw32@egroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 12:34 AM

Subject: Re: [mingw] Re: **PRE-ANNOUNCEMENT** Mail list move.





> Paul Selormey wrote:

> > The flexibility eGroups offers makes me like it, banners or not.

>

> I run several mail lists. An important issue to consider is the

> the time it will require to keep the list running. The list should

> not take a step backwards because of this--the new list should offer

> all of the functionality of eGroups. Otherwise, the membership will

> see this move as having personal motivations rather than the good

> of the group at heart.

>

> Surely the natural progression of any large organization is to bring

> mail list management in-house for better control and flexibility.

> Are we now of that size? Is there enough volunteer time to handle this

> without decreasing activity in other areas? These are the questions

> that should be addressed when attempting to achieve a mutually agreeable

> decision that will serve the entire membership.

>

>                               ,,,

>                              (oo)

>   ----------------------o0Oo-(_)-oO0o-----------------------

>   |    John F. Masinter      Total Business Computing Inc. |

>   |    V: (770) 886-9100            F: (770) 886-9619      |

>   | mailto:john@...        http://www.totalb.com    |

>   |     P.O. Box 88584               Atlanta, GA 30356     |

>   ------------------------ooO--Ooo--------------------------

>

>

>

Hey all,



As a mingw32 user and a long-time member of the engineering team here

at eGroups, I figured I'd speak up and say hello.



On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:48:59AM +0900, Paul Selormey wrote:

> How come this never came with the banner? Some tricks there?



Sometimes there is no banner ad to serve so you just get lucky.



> Surely the natural progression of any large organization is to bring

> mail list management in-house for better control and flexibility.

> Are we now of that size? Is there enough volunteer time to handle this

> without decreasing activity in other areas? These are the questions

> that should be addressed when attempting to achieve a mutually agreeable

> decision that will serve the entire membership.



If you do end up moving the list for better control and flexibility,

I'd be interseted to know the specifics. It's one of my personal goals

to have our product be better than running a mailing list on your own

machine. That goal is some of the motivation behind the Activity

logging, and the up-and-coming web/email traffic graphs.



Of course we understand not everyone is willing to use an advertising

supported service, so if the banners are your primary motivation I

understand. In case you didn't know, we do have an option to pay-for

no ads. It's about $60 per group for a year of no-ads.



This is now sounding too much like some sales pitch so I'll have to

stop before someone revokes my engineering skills.



P.S. Mingw32 is great stuff. I hope to get my DirectDraw game engine

compiling with it someday soon.



--

David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ + jeske@...

From: David Jeske [mailto:jeske@...]

> As a mingw32 user and a long-time member of the engineering team here

> at eGroups, I figured I'd speak up and say hello.



Thanks for the comments. Just out of curiosity, why are the ads at the top

on the mingw list now? Other egroups lists I am on have them at the bottom.

Frankly, the ads at the top is enough to make me want to move, if I were the

one making the decision. They are just too obtrusive. Ads at the bottom are

fine, and seem a reasonable way of supporting a free mailing list. But at

the top distracts too much from the content.



If mingw were staying with Egroups, I'd start looking for a way of

automatically filtering the ads now that they are at the top - this seems to

me to defeat the object....



Paul.

--- "John F. Masinter" <john@...> wrote:

> Paul Selormey wrote:

> > The flexibility eGroups offers makes me like it, banners or not.

>

> I run several mail lists. An important issue to consider is the

> the time it will require to keep the list running. The list should

> not take a step backwards because of this--



1) It should not require any more time to run the new list.

2) The GNU Mailman gives me greater administrative control.



> the new list should offer all of the functionality of eGroups. Otherwise, the

> membership will see this move as having personal motivations rather than the

> good of the group at heart.



1) Members can receive individual mails, digests and view the archives online.

    However, a member does not have an option of not receiving the mail.

2) Non-members will be able to post and view the archives online.

    I will allow Non-members to post.



>

> Surely the natural progression of any large organization is to bring

> mail list management in-house for better control and flexibility.

> Are we now of that size?

>



We are currently ~444 members strong.



> Is there enough volunteer time to handle this without decreasing activity in

> other areas?



The current administration is a total of 2 persons.  The new list will be 3

persons.  The amount of time to administrate once setup should be minimal.



> These are the questions that should be addressed when attempting to achieve

> a mutually agreeable decision that will serve the entire membership.

>



Of the persons who had set "Web Viewing Only" those will be the ones that would

not have joined if they weren't forced to.  I have no idea of the number of

those persons.  Since non-members can view the archives and post this will

serve the same as what they are getting now.



Cheers,



=====

--- <http://earniesystems.safeshopper.com> ---

    Earnie Boyd: <mailto:earnie_boyd@...>

             __Cygwin: POSIX on Windows__

Cygwin Newbies: <http://gw32.freeyellow.com/>

            __Minimalist GNU for Windows__

   Mingw32 List: <http://www.egroups.com/group/mingw32/>

     Mingw Home: <http://www.mingw.org/>



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!

http://mail.yahoo.com/

Paul Sokolovsky wrote:

> Decision to do the relocation of list to

> sourceforge was made by current admins of Mingw project, see

> http://sourceforge.net/mingw/ for who's who.



I 'spect you meant http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw (which is, I see,

distinct from http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingwrep ; the mingw32 compiler

vs libraries (et al) compiled with mingw32).

--

Fred Christiansen, a Canajan (Eh?) in Idaho .................................

   fredch@... (specific) // fred_christiansen@... (general)

   Folk inside HP's firewall can access:  http://hpbs1668.boi.hp.com/~fredch/

                                    and:  http://hpbs1668.boi.hp.com/hazard/

Hello Fred,



Fred Christiansen <fred_christiansen@...> wrote:



FC> Paul Sokolovsky wrote:

>> Decision to do the relocation of list to

>> sourceforge was made by current admins of Mingw project, see

>> http://sourceforge.net/mingw/ for who's who.



FC> I 'spect you meant http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw (which is, I see,



     Yes, sorry.



FC> distinct from http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingwrep ; the mingw32

compiler

FC> vs libraries (et al) compiled with mingw32).



     True too. The latter is simply my personal project, the former is

official Mingw created by Mumit Khan. With luck, mine will become part of

it.



> I note there's also http://mingw.sourceforge.net as well as

> http://mingwrep.sourceforge.net .  The content is different, of course,

> so there's an operational difference.  If one were to be referring a

> colleague to one of the URL's for the mingw32 compiler, why might one

> refer to mingw.sourceforge.net vs sourceforge.net/projects/mingw ?



   URLs starting with http://sourceforge.net/projects/ are standard

SourceForge group pages. From there, services and resources like full

file list, CVS browse, bug and patch tracking, statistics, etc., are

directly accessible. So they are of interest to developers,

contributors or just active users. http://<projname>.sourceforge.net

is project home page which of free form content, usually containg

project information "in plain words", so they are of interest to the

rest of the world. There is also 'www.mingw.org' domain which is

technically alias for mingw.sourceforge.net (but of course, can be

made point somewhere other when needed).



   So, if someone referring colleague to /projects/... one's probably

indirectly motivating him to consider contributing, I guess;

referrence to www.mingw.org doesn't have such connotation ;-)



FC> --

FC> Fred Christiansen, a Canajan (Eh?) in Idaho

.................................



--

Paul Sokolovsky, IT Specialist

http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=11135

Fred Christiansen wrote:

> I 'spect you meant http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw (which is, I see,

> distinct from http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingwrep ; mingw32 compiler

> vs libraries (et al) compiled with mingw32).



I note there's also http://mingw.sourceforge.net as well as

http://mingwrep.sourceforge.net .  The content is different, of course,

so there's an operational difference.  If one were to be referring a

colleague to one of the URL's for the mingw32 compiler, why might one

refer to mingw.sourceforge.net vs sourceforge.net/projects/mingw ?

--

Fred Christiansen, a Canajan (Eh?) in Idaho .................................

   fredch@... (specific) // fred_christiansen@... (general)

   Folk inside HP's firewall can access:  http://hpbs1668.boi.hp.com/~fredch/

                                    and:  http://hpbs1668.boi.hp.com/hazard/

--- Fred Christiansen <fred_christiansen@...> wrote:

>

> If one were to be referring a

> colleague to one of the URL's for the mingw32 compiler, why might one

> refer to mingw.sourceforge.net vs sourceforge.net/projects/mingw ?



If I were referring someone to MinGW I would send them to http://www.mingw.org.



Cheers,



=====

--- <http://earniesystems.safeshopper.com> ---

    Earnie Boyd: <mailto:earnie_boyd@...>

             __Cygwin: POSIX on Windows__

Cygwin Newbies: <http://gw32.freeyellow.com/>

            __Minimalist GNU for Windows__

   Mingw32 List: <http://www.egroups.com/group/mingw32/>

     Mingw Home: <http://www.mingw.org/>



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!

http://mail.yahoo.com/

Thanks to Earnie for taking care of the move. It was good fun to

see the member list grow over the past year and to participate as a

moderator.





Dale