I've changed the settings on this group to more restrictive/members only.

David Garner

Hello, try the bcx group at BCX@yahoogroups.com

There's only about 3  or so of us in this group and it has not been used in
a few months.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcx/

Good luck
John

----- Original Message -----
From: <sg1@...>
To: <mmtut@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:26 PM
Subject: [mmtut] Help! starting to learn bcx but freaked out about SDL


> Dear BCX programmers
>
> I have looked into sdl and I personally know some c/c++ programmers
> that are using sdl in there projects
>
> I'm freaking out cause I cant find any development port (SDL) for the
> win32 lcc compiler
>
> I found mingw and msvc - is there possibly one around, maybe a
> modified mingw works? is that possible..
>
> please reply
>
> I really wish to use bcx and sdl
>
> if not possible hows direct in the way of suppport!
>
> from
> Nicholas Pastoll
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> mmtut-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Dear BCX programmers

I have looked into sdl and I personally know some c/c++ programmers
that are using sdl in there projects

I'm freaking out cause I cant find any development port (SDL) for the
win32 lcc compiler

I found mingw and msvc - is there possibly one around, maybe a
modified mingw works? is that possible..

please reply

I really wish to use bcx and sdl

if not possible hows direct in the way of suppport!

from
Nicholas Pastoll

David Garner wrote:

>Does not sound like any fun.  I'm not familiar with it.  Is it just hand
>motion?  Or does it involve motion in general?  I'm guessing it's just
>one of those things you just have to learn to live with?
>
>
You know that neat wheel on the mouses? (mice for rodents mouses for
plural computer mouse)

Don't use it. One day you could -all of the sudden- get RSI too!
The mouse is really bad if you have to reach for it, like when I help
people at their desk.

I should be back to normal in about another month.
John

John,

> Hi Dave, Great! I never thought of a bad USB cable. Was it a whole
> cable, or one that you spliced/soldered?

It was the mouse cord.  Near the mouse (where you'd guess it would get
stressed).  I can't recall ever seeing a bad mouse cable.  I guess the
USB cords are more prone to damage?  Or maybe I'm just lucky.

> I have RSI tendonitis?, so I cannot use the computer for more than a
> couple of minutes these days.

Does not sound like any fun.  I'm not familiar with it.  Is it just hand
motion?  Or does it involve motion in general?  I'm guessing it's just
one of those things you just have to learn to live with?

> I spent a week trying to get VV10 USB PRO to work, and now it is
great!

Glad there's some assistance available for you.  As computers get faster
and programs get smarter, it should get better for those like yourself
who need more than just a keyboard and mouse to interact.

With the cheap USB cameras available these days, you'd think they could
be used to enable computer interaction as well.  I've not seen anyone
doing anything with them yet.

> *Here's one for you:

I'll keep that in mind.  Never would have thought of it.

David Garner

Hi Dave, Great! I never thought of a bad USB cable. Was it a whole
cable, or one that you spliced/soldered?

I have RSI tendonitis?, so I cannot use the computer for more than a
couple of minutes these days. I spent a week trying to get VV10 USB PRO
to work, and now it is great! I still have allot to learn on how to use
it and to use it efficiently. It works with my Text Editor, but it
throws the letter "c" prefixed/sufixed to some words. I've asked why the
"c" is  popping in and what it means, so hopefully I will have it
working soon.

*BCX* HA! can you believe how much they are improving and working on it
this last week? I just got 643 messages tonight from Yahoo and they are
all dated in July. I don't know what is going on. One group announced
that Yahoo is cutting their storage space for messages, so maybe Yahoo
is working on their systems or something. I haven't use my Yahoo email
account in a while,so maybe I should check it.

*Here's one for you: A computer at work kept going to sleep and the user
said it was when she scrolled up/down the window using the 'elevator' as
she called it. After 3 times of getting called and watching her scroll
the window with the mouse I ended up sitting there watching her work for
about 20 minutes and then the computer went in sleep mode again. I asked
her what key she pressed last and she said she moved the elevator up
with the mouse. hahahaha. I know she did use the mouse at all, so I
pressed some keys where I thought where near her hand and the computer
went into sleep mode.

It was the UP arrow key. I tried the keyboard on my computer and it shut
it off. I checked the control panel and there is a setting for a "sleep"
button. What to do when it is pressed with Sleep or shutdown as choices.
My computer was set to shutdown and hers was set to sleep.

Somehow they keyboard lost/scrambled its keycode programming or
something? I called gateway (new computer) and they sent a replacement.

John

David Garner wrote:

>John,
>
>I've a new one for your bag of tricks.
>
>My USB mouse that did not work well a lot of the time (even took down
>the keyboard when it failed) appears to have an intermittent short in
>the cable.  I guess when it shorted, it caused the hub to current limit
>and shut down.
>
>I found it by upgrading to a wireless optical mouse (also changed a
>mechanical switch I was using to a Belkin USB switch).  I did not shut
>down the machines and in an effort to gain back control, I took the
>corded USB mouse back to plug directly into the machine.  It was an
>optical mouse and the red light would go on and off depending on how I
>twisted the wire.
>
>Ended up re-booting a couple of the machines without shutting down since
>I could not get their attention.  Everything seems to be working real
>well now.
>
>I thought I was going to get to BCX last weekend but ended up
>chauffeuring a friend, who's car computer died.  Spent most of Saturday
>and part of Sunday driving him around.  Was kind of fun, but not what
>I'd hoped for.
>
>Hopefully, this weekend will be calmer.
>
>David Garner
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>mmtut-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>

John,

I've a new one for your bag of tricks.

My USB mouse that did not work well a lot of the time (even took down
the keyboard when it failed) appears to have an intermittent short in
the cable.  I guess when it shorted, it caused the hub to current limit
and shut down.

I found it by upgrading to a wireless optical mouse (also changed a
mechanical switch I was using to a Belkin USB switch).  I did not shut
down the machines and in an effort to gain back control, I took the
corded USB mouse back to plug directly into the machine.  It was an
optical mouse and the red light would go on and off depending on how I
twisted the wire.

Ended up re-booting a couple of the machines without shutting down since
I could not get their attention.  Everything seems to be working real
well now.

I thought I was going to get to BCX last weekend but ended up
chauffeuring a friend, who's car computer died.  Spent most of Saturday
and part of Sunday driving him around.  Was kind of fun, but not what
I'd hoped for.

Hopefully, this weekend will be calmer.

David Garner

John,

Call me lazy.  Hey, I resemble that remark!

But I'd like to have a way to code with macros.

If I want to read from a file, I click this button and the environment
would paste in the skeleton code for file I/O.  A loop, click another
button.  Etc., etc.

David Garner

John,

I'm still trying to figure out how to make this programming thing
easier/more efficient.  BCX has such potential, but it's still just too
much work to get things working.  I have many projects that I'd like to
create, but it seems like I just can't get past the toy program stage.

I've started going through the BCX GUI samples again.  I'm amazed by the
cool stuff Kevin's added since last time I looked.  And there was a lot
of neat stuff in there then.

There has to be a way to take portions of the code that he's provided
and modularize it and make it usable.

EZ-IDE has really evolved since I started it way back when, but it seems
still un-usable to me.  Looks like he's got some neat stuff in there,
but it does not work well enough yet.  I noticed he seems to have slowed
down.  I wonder if it's starting to get to be too big to maintain.
Seems like projects get that way eventually.  Some of them sooner that
others.

I've got a lot of code (including some of yours) that I'd like to be
able to use, but I don't have the right tool yet.  I'm trying to figure
out what that would look like.

Here's my current thoughts.  Maybe you can help me make some sense of
it.

I'm thinking I'd like to use files.  Each file would have a function in
it.  The first line would be a description of the function.  I'd like to
create a program that would read the first line of all the files in some
directory and build a list or tree view with the descriptions from the
first line of each file.

The file would also have some kind of code in it that would tell the
generator where it needs to be placed in the source file and any header
or include files that are required to make it work.  Maybe the function
prototypes and global variables that need to be handled as well?

The programmer would then select the features he wants from the list and
the generator would create the source file/files that are required to
create the program with the desired features.  Maybe building the
makefile as well.

I did something like this at my previous job.  I built a graphics
library of small files.  You'd scan through them and select the pictures
you wanted.  When you found one you wanted to use, you'd press a
function key and it would be copied to an output file.  The files were
actually collections of graphics commands for a graphics engine.  When
you got all the pictures you wanted, you'd insert some sensor points and
then save all the data into a custom graphics file for a particular
customer's job.  It was all pretty simple techniques, but the way it was
put together, it worked pretty well.  I even had people who knew nothing
about programming use it and they were usually able to generate the
required files.  Sometimes quicker than I could.

Seems like I should be able to do a similar thing with this problem.

Any ideas?  Does this seem like a reasonable approach?  I've thought
about using XML to do a similar thing in the past, but I've not cracked
that nut yet and I'm not sure what it would add that I could not do with
simple sequential ASCII files and some arrays.

I think I still need a way to do truly independent multiple file
projects in BCX.  Unfortunately, it looks like I'm not going to get it
unless I do it myself.

I'm hoping to spend most of the weekend on my new computer.  Maybe I can
come up with something I like.

David Garner

John,

Thanks for the heads up.  Like I said, I tried DNS and VV several OS's
back and liked ViaVoice much better.  If I were to install any voice
recognition software, it would probably be ViaVoice.

Actually, I find I think too slowly for voice recognition.  If I can
send it a continuous stream of thought, it does a much better job of
translating.  Problem is that I usually think in words and short phrases
and it seems to get confused by these.

For now, I think I'll be using the good old keyboard for data entry.

David Garner

Dave, I just found out DNS 5.0 is not really compatible with XP. There
is an older SAPI version 4 dll set that can be installed, and then DNS
5.0 installed again/afterwards.

Just letting you know in case you install it on XP, it wont get along
with XP and causes voice recognition problems/slowdowns/etc.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/msagent/techfaq\
_6gfl.asp

John

David Garner wrote:

>John,
>
>Thanks for the long and well thought out explanation (as usual).
>
>I'm still a little confused or skeptical about what you're saying.
>
>For what it's worth, I have used an older version of Dragon and a couple
>of versions of Via Voice.  I can't recall if it was 9 or 10 or both.  I
>like Via Voice much better than the Dragon that I had used previously.
>I think they were versions of approximately the same age that I was
>comparing.
>
>
>
>

John,
I've finally gotten around to chasing your rabbit.

Are you telling me that XP Pro has voice recognition built in?

YES! cool huh? it takes a bit to get to it. If you are Administrator

it

might be easier, some cannot get it to work.
Control Panel-->Regional & Language
Options->Languages->Details->Preferences and then turn the language

bar

on.

I think I followed this path and there does not appear to be any voice
recognition stuff in there. Have you installed other packages to get
these features? Or is there something I need to turn on to get these
settings?
I have text to speech under start/settings/control panel/speech. There
is one voice to select from.
On this machine (my second best), I follow the speech path and when I
double click speech, the windows installer pops up and starts installing
officeXP with frontpage. It asks for disks I did not give it and after
canceling many times, it finally opens a dialog with voice recognition
and text to speech tabs on it. If I follow -your- path on the second machine, I see the stuff (more or
less) that you're talking about.
I have officeXP and ViaVoice installed on this machine.
So, I conclude that it does not come with XP Pro - or there is someplace
else to turn it on or install it that I'm missing.
I know there's a speech SDK, I wonder what's in it.
Anyway, unless you have any other ideas of how to address this, I guess
I'll find another rabbit to chase. I'm thinking maybe BCX - for a
change. ;) I've installed it, but not gotten past that point with 3.00.
David Garner
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John,

I've finally gotten around to chasing your rabbit.

> >Are you telling me that XP Pro has voice recognition built in?
> >
> YES! cool huh? it takes a bit to get to it. If you are Administrator
it
> might be easier, some cannot get it to work.
> Control Panel-->Regional & Language
> Options->Languages->Details->Preferences and then turn the language
bar
> on.

I think I followed this path and there does not appear to be any voice
recognition stuff in there.  Have you installed other packages to get
these features?  Or is there something I need to turn on to get these
settings?

I have text to speech under start/settings/control panel/speech.  There
is one voice to select from.

On this machine (my second best), I follow the speech path and when I
double click speech, the windows installer pops up and starts installing
officeXP with frontpage.  It asks for disks I did not give it and after
canceling many times, it finally opens a dialog with voice recognition
and text to speech tabs on it.

If I follow -your- path on the second machine, I see the stuff (more or
less) that you're talking about.

I have officeXP and ViaVoice installed on this machine.

So, I conclude that it does not come with XP Pro - or there is someplace
else to turn it on or install it that I'm missing.

I know there's a speech SDK, I wonder what's in it.

Anyway, unless you have any other ideas of how to address this, I guess
I'll find another rabbit to chase.  I'm thinking maybe BCX - for a
change. ;)  I've installed it, but not gotten past that point with 3.00.

David Garner

David Garner wrote:

>Are you telling me that XP Pro has voice recognition built in?
>
YES! cool huh? it takes a bit to get to it. If you are Administrator it
might be easier, some cannot get it to work.
Control Panel-->Regional & Language
Options->Languages->Details->Preferences and then turn the language bar on.
If you ever shut it off this is how you turn it back on. In the Details
tab, there will be a list of the software you have installed such as
voice recognition, handwritting, and such. There are a ton of
options/settings in these tabs and it is easy to forget where things
are. There is also a text-2-speach softeware with 3 voices!

>If I understood you correctly, I can open notepad and dictate to it.
>
Yes, when you have the Language bar ON then that is how it works. You
need to adjust the settings for the mic and be in a quit room.

>Seems that I could have any program with a textbox on it and dictate to
>it also.  Do you know this to be true or not true?
>
TRUE :) Wonderful isn't it!

>I'm not clear how your method of I/O (which I think I follow at least in
>concept) is better than a textbox.
>
Not "better" in normal terms, just that they have been spending years
trying to get it working with a textbox. I never used one, but they say
you cannot use both the mic and keyboard at the same time. They have a
bunch of other problems as well. I don't know how the data gets into a
textbox, but if you could control where the cursors is placed, the font
used, and intercept the keyboard key strokes before they are printed in
the textbox then a textbox would work just the same.

  From what they are telling me is Visual BASIC has the best VR built in,
and they say it sucks for programming. Whatever problems they are having
and have been working on for all these years do not exist for me with my
text editor. Again if a textbox can do everything I explained above then
I do not know what their problem(s) could be.

** When you have the menu bar on and the show-text? option on  it will
tell you when you are speaking too loud, it doesn't understand you, your
talking too low, etc.

1) Turn the language bar on (there is a little rectangle menu and a
downarrow menu on the right edge of the bar)
2) Turn the mic on by clicking on the Microphone button.
3) Choose Dicatation and speak away into a text box!

John,

Thanks for the long and well thought out explanation (as usual).

I'm still a little confused or skeptical about what you're saying.

For what it's worth, I have used an older version of Dragon and a couple
of versions of Via Voice.  I can't recall if it was 9 or 10 or both.  I
like Via Voice much better than the Dragon that I had used previously.
I think they were versions of approximately the same age that I was
comparing.

Ok, with that out of the way, I have a brand new PC (2.2 GHz Athlon, 200
Gig hard drive, 500Meg RAM, [DVD reader and CD-R/W writer - one drive]
running XP Pro.  I just bought the parts Saturday and built it Sunday.
I've installed the latest LCC and BCX 3.00.  I've not really done
anything with it yet - except let it burn electricity, create heat and
defrag the drive a couple times.  I've installed the SP-1 and all the
other updates from Windows Update.  I've been impressed by how easy the
build was and how little problem I've had with any compatibility
(driver) type problems.

My plan is to use it to play with.  Keeping my previous best machine for
accounting and e-mail and other mundane tasks.

Are you telling me that XP Pro has voice recognition built in?  Is there
anything I have to turn on, or do I just need to connect a mic?

If I understood you correctly, I can open notepad and dictate to it.

Seems that I could have any program with a textbox on it and dictate to
it also.  Do you know this to be true or not true?

I'm not clear how your method of I/O (which I think I follow at least in
concept) is better than a textbox.

I need to get to bed, but I'm interested to learn more about what you're
saying.

Thanks.

David Garner

Well, here's the story. If you look at my text editor, it does not use a
control to print text, so no bcx_edit or bcx_textbox. It uses plain
simple x, y positioning to keep track of the cursor on the screen. To
print, it takes your keystroke, stores it into the
buffer[x][y][keycharacter], and then it redraws the screen by printing
the entire buffer. So when you press backspace it does:
cursor_x=cursor_x-1
buffer[x][y]=CHR$(32)
call redraw_screen

See how it works?
Now for voice recognition you need to take input from the mic right?
WRONG!!! That was the old way! the old win95/98 way! See this is the 1st
problem. Actually I think win98 might be able to pull it off?

Anyways, XP PRO has some built in vvoice recognition that is really good
compared to Dragon Natural Speaking 5.0 that I am trying. And XP has
several "interface" options that you click on for voice control to work
with all Window programs, not just the old one that do it the old direct
way.

The way VR works on XP PRO, and what I think will be the future, is it
simulates keystrokes for programs that have no special programming to
use VR. So if right now you activated you XP voice recognition, and
opened notepade you could speak into the mic and see it print.

It looks like for the last like 10 years programmers have been trying to
interface programs with VR. They have many SDK programming kits to do
all of this.

** Now the way my text editor works, how I move the cursor, how I draw
the text on the screen myself (instead of using a built in text control,
I just speak into the mic and it prints on the screen.

The problems are that any Windows program can print on the screen when
you speak right? But people are telling me that you cannot use a mic and
the keyboard at the same time because there is no way for the keyboard
-vs- mic to know where the cursors is. The left hand wont know what the
right hand is doing.

The new method, just speak and it prints allows programs to be developed
for the keyboard and no speach recognition knowledge needed.

So, my text editor works for the keyboard and the mic because I read the
keyboard input using the Windows functions. The VR software simulates
keystrokes into the Windows message queue, so my text editor doesn't
care if you speak or type, the same code is run.

So, it is going to be a really good thing.

I just started adding another mode to my text editor that will
understand BCX/C commands and such. For example when I say "A=4" a VR
program would type "a equals four". Because we are programming, I can
replace "equals" with "=". Using VR you would have to say to say an
entire wierd sentence to get "A=4".

One problem I am encountering is almost everyone uses Dragon Natural
Speaking and I can only afford IBM VIA VOICE10, so I do not know if VV10
will work like DNS does.

For example you can say "Backspace" or "Press Backspace" in DNS and it
is just like pressing the backspace key, I hope VV10 works the same way.

John

John,

>WOW, something really neat has happened.

Sounds like you're excited!

Sounds interesting.

If you have time, I'd love to hear more.  Not sure where to start asking
questions, so I'll await your further details when you have time.

David Garner

John,

I work for APC (not on UPS's).  I do not speak for APC.  None the less,
we thank you for your support.

I have 7 650 VA UPSs powering my 4 PC's and 2 monitors.  I obviously
agree with you that power can be a problem.  I don't think that's it in
this case.

David Garner

Welcome back Dave!  

Thanks John. I'm not sure I'm back, but at least I'm not locked in to
spending half my weekend on estate matters. I now need to catch up on
all the stuff that got neglected for the last two months.

I'm going to be releasing a text editor written in BCX.

Sounds like an interesting project. That's one aspect that BCX needs as
part of the IDE. Doyle is supposed to be working on an editor, but he's
almost as slow as I am. ;)
It appears my USB issue is still alive and ill. My keyboard and mouse
randomly lock up and then fix themselves (usually). I think it might
have something to do with the Microsoft joystick since as best I can
understand the data it shows me, the joystick seems to be the only
device that is not accounted for. I've tried leaving it unplugged and
even un-installing it with no apparent effect.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to studying the new BCX release and spending
some quality time with my PC.
David Garner
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>Welcome back Dave!  

Thanks John.  I'm not sure I'm back, but at least I'm not locked in to
spending half my weekend on estate matters.  I now need to catch up on
all the stuff that got neglected for the last two months.

>I'm going to be releasing a text editor written in BCX.

Sounds like an interesting project.  That's one aspect that BCX needs as
part of the IDE.  Doyle is supposed to be working on an editor, but he's
almost as slow as I am. ;)

It appears my USB issue is still alive and ill.  My keyboard and mouse
randomly lock up and then fix themselves (usually).  I think it might
have something to do with the Microsoft joystick since as best I can
understand the data it shows me, the joystick seems to be the only
device that is not accounted for.  I've tried leaving it unplugged and
even un-installing it with no apparent effect.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to studying the new BCX release and spending
some quality time with my PC.

David Garner

Hi All,

 

For those who don’t recall, I’ve been acting as executor for my Aunt’s estate for the last couple months.  I got the check and the final documents on the property sale in the mail today.  Yeah!  I guess the remaining tasks are a few lingering bills and final tax returns.

 

I’m looking forward to spending my Saturdays on something else for a change and a 3 day weekend.

 

So, how are things in the real world?

 

David Garner

 

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John,

> Dave or anyone know what this is suppose to do? I see "size_t" all the
> time, but what is it and I suppose this snippet is suppose to return
64K

Haven't used or needed it, here's the most informative quote I found in
a google search - might provide some clues for you :


I found "N843, the Final Committee Draft" of the ANSI C standard at :

  http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/index.html

To quote the section "Common definitions <stddef.h>" :

  "  size_t
    which is the unsigned integer type of the result of the sizeof
operator;"

David Garner

Dave or anyone know what this is suppose to do? I see "size_t" all the
time, but what is it and I suppose this snippet is suppose to return 64K
minus 1 byte.
Thanks
John
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <stdarg.h>
#include <string.h>
#include "snparray.h"
#include "stdio.h"


#define MAXDIMS  5              /* Defines the maximum number of
dimensions */
#define MAXSIZE  ((size_t) -1L) /* Maximum size of array */

void main()
{
printf("maxsize=%d",MAXSIZE);
}

The last few days I've been studying ANSI C. I just looked over the
source code for a simple i386 C compiler for LINUX.  It reminds me of
how BCX compiles programs. Now I have another idea, but I have to wait
before coding or I'll get side tracked and wont learn this stuff.

I wish I has C#, but it is suppose to be changing next year to a newer
version, along with Windows, so I guess I'm ok with not having $1,500 to
purchase the whole package.

That reminds me, today we found out to purchase M$ licenses for past
products, you just buy the license(s) for the current XP version and
they now are good for older copies of the same product. Example we bough
5 XP OFFICE license for 5 computers that will be running office 2000.
(work place still has a few typewriters in case your wondering why we
are still using office 2000)

I wrote a BBS terminal program 1990-1995 that is something like 30,000+
lines of pure Assembly Language. I am going to pull the floppies out and
see if it works on the current computers and if I still have the source
code. I stopped that project when I got kicked in the head.....not
really someone just told me about a thing called the Internet and what a
browser was. Well, no need for me to continue working on something that
companies already have, and that work on this new "Internet" thing. I do
recall it uses VESA for the video and any dos .wav player for audio. The
graphics are primitive and are more like a ms-paint program. I want to
burn the code on a CD, and browse threw it to see what it would be like
to do the whole thing in C.

John

David Garner wrote:

>John,
>
>I code C every day and still don't know a lot of it.  Especially on the
>PC and OS side of things.
>
>I'm attempting to learn C++.  I'm also spending some time on .NET.
>VB.NET in particular at this moment.
>
>I just keep reading the books as I have time and every once in a while,
>something sinks in.
>
>Glad to hear you're making some progress and having fun with it.
>
>David Garner
>
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