Skip to search.

Breaking News Visit Yahoo! News for the latest.

×Close this window

mobile-web · Mobile Web

The Yahoo! Groups Product Blog

Check it out!

Group Information

  • Members: 682
  • Category: Web Design
  • Founded: Sep 15, 2010
  • Language: English
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Real people. Real stories. See how Yahoo! Groups impacts members worldwide.

Messages

Advanced
Messages Help
Messages 745 - 774 of 881   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Messages: Show Message Summaries Sort by Date ^  
#745 From: "jonnyschneider_aus" <schneider.jonny@...>
Date: Sun Oct 9, 2011 11:39 pm
Subject: Mobile speed-test/benchmark sites
jonnyschneid...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,

Anybody know of a decent mobile speed-test or benchmarking service?
I'm familiar with mobiready.com which does the basics, but it looks like  a lot
of the recommendations are a bit out of date.

I've also used firebug/Yslow extension for firefox, but that's obviously not
mobile specific.

What do you use?

Cheers, -Jonny

#746 From: Jared Hirsch <jared@...>
Date: Sun Oct 9, 2011 11:44 pm
Subject: Re: Mobile speed-test/benchmark sites
jared@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Maybe http://www.blaze.io/mobile/ is what you're looking for?

Keynote announced a mobile testing product at Velocity this year, and I bet Gomez has something as well, if you're looking to pay somebody.

Good luck!

Jared

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 4:39 PM, jonnyschneider_aus <schneider.jonny@...> wrote:
 

Hello,

Anybody know of a decent mobile speed-test or benchmarking service?
I'm familiar with mobiready.com which does the basics, but it looks like a lot of the recommendations are a bit out of date.

I've also used firebug/Yslow extension for firefox, but that's obviously not mobile specific.

What do you use?

Cheers, -Jonny



#747 From: Caleb Wong <carbon.caleb@...>
Date: Sun Oct 9, 2011 11:44 pm
Subject: Re: Mobile speed-test/benchmark sites
ca1ebo
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Jonny

There's Yslow for Mobile.
And this.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 10:39 AM, jonnyschneider_aus <schneider.jonny@...> wrote:
 

Hello,

Anybody know of a decent mobile speed-test or benchmarking service?
I'm familiar with mobiready.com which does the basics, but it looks like a lot of the recommendations are a bit out of date.

I've also used firebug/Yslow extension for firefox, but that's obviously not mobile specific.

What do you use?

Cheers, -Jonny



#748 From: Andrew Mattie <amattie@...>
Date: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:55 am
Subject: Re: Mobile speed-test/benchmark sites
amattie...
Send Email Send Email
 
Google's Page Speed Online also offers a mobile-specific analysis as an option.

Andrew

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 4:39 PM, jonnyschneider_aus <schneider.jonny@...> wrote:
Hello,

Anybody know of a decent mobile speed-test or benchmarking service?
I'm familiar with mobiready.com which does the basics, but it looks like  a lot of the recommendations are a bit out of date.

I've also used firebug/Yslow extension for firefox, but that's obviously not mobile specific.

What do you use?

Cheers, -Jonny



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mobile-web/

<*> Your email settings:
   Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mobile-web/join
   (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
   mobile-web-digest@yahoogroups.com
   mobile-web-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   mobile-web-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



#749 From: Jo Rabin <jorabin@...>
Date: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:22 am
Subject: Re: Mobile speed-test/benchmark sites
jorabin
Send Email Send Email
 
Also take a look at http://validator.w3.org/mobile

and of course the webkit analyses are useful though not mobile specific.


On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:55, Andrew Mattie wrote:

 

Google's Page Speed Online also offers a mobile-specific analysis as an option.


Andrew

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 4:39 PM, jonnyschneider_aus <schneider.jonny@...> wrote:
Hello,

Anybody know of a decent mobile speed-test or benchmarking service?
I'm familiar with mobiready.com which does the basics, but it looks like  a lot of the recommendations are a bit out of date.

I've also used firebug/Yslow extension for firefox, but that's obviously not mobile specific.

What do you use?

Cheers, -Jonny



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mobile-web/

<*> Your email settings:
   Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mobile-web/join
   (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
   mobile-web-digest@yahoogroups.com
   mobile-web-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   mobile-web-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





#750 From: "crsvenningsen" <csvenningsen@...>
Date: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm
Subject: Using Android x86 instead of Android Emulator
crsvenningsen
Send Email Send Email
 
I came across this fairly easy-to-follow guide on installing Android x86 in
VirtualBox and thought I'd share:
http://blogs.nuxeo.com/dev/2011/10/speeding-up-the-android-emulator.html

I've always been frustrated by the Android emulator's performance (I'm sure I'm
not alone there) and the x86 project takes care of that, while seemingly
rendering just about as well. For anyone else looking for a speedier solution,
I'd recommend it.

If anyone has more experience with this and can chime in with some downfalls of
going the simulation route (as opposed to emulation), I'd love to hear them.
Connecting via ADB is the one thing I've found to be slightly more annoying.

#751 From: "Alex Desouza" <alexdesouza88@...>
Date: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:33 am
Subject: Cheap & best Website Development Company
alexdesouza88
Send Email Send Email
 

When you are starting up your business a cheap website designer may seem the best option for you. So, here we will talk about the low cost website designing services and the best ways to develop cool websites. Among such a huge number of website owners, very few can afford real expensive website development companies or the service providers and so there must be some offering cheap and affordable websites.

If you are looking forward to hire a new website development company or an individual service provider who is just starting up, you will most likely not get a very rich portfolio. But in this stage you might get a competitive rate. Once the website development service professionals become more established, it is quite evident that, they will then no doubt increase their prices.

So, how to find such start up website developers! You can either look for the online directories or explore the forum pages to get start up yet authentic website developers. In fact, chances are there to get scammed with such cheap website designing means.

Once you get the website design anyway, you then need to think about web hosting. It may be worth asking the website developers you have hired if they can recommend a host. Now the time is to think about your website promotion. In some cases the website developers provide with the promotional services at an added cost. However you can hire SEO specialists to give your website a higher page rank and increased number of visitors.


#752 From: Gregers Gram Rygg <gregersrygg@...>
Date: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:00 pm
Subject: Re: Using Android x86 instead of Android Emulator
gregersrygg
Send Email Send Email
 
Didn't have time to check it out before today. It is indeed a _lot_ faster!
Thanks for sharing :)

Cheers,
Gregers

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 10:11 PM, crsvenningsen <csvenningsen@...> wrote:
 

I came across this fairly easy-to-follow guide on installing Android x86 in VirtualBox and thought I'd share: http://blogs.nuxeo.com/dev/2011/10/speeding-up-the-android-emulator.html

I've always been frustrated by the Android emulator's performance (I'm sure I'm not alone there) and the x86 project takes care of that, while seemingly rendering just about as well. For anyone else looking for a speedier solution, I'd recommend it.

If anyone has more experience with this and can chime in with some downfalls of going the simulation route (as opposed to emulation), I'd love to hear them. Connecting via ADB is the one thing I've found to be slightly more annoying.



#753 From: "Alex Desouza" <alexdesouza88@...>
Date: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:23 am
Subject: Make your Site Earn with E-commerce Design
alexdesouza88
Send Email Send Email
 

A successful ecommerce website can help your business grow with greater prospect. How? Today at the age of globalization, Ecommerce websites are increasingly becoming a popular choice for the business owners especially those want to leverage the internet to sell their product or service to the global market. However, leaving your competitors behind is really not a cake walk. It requires unique approach and clever implementation of advanced marketing strategies to climb atop to the market niche. Ecommerce website is therefore the key to your business success.

An ecommerce website should be dynamic, well maintained and provide with the best access possible. It is essential to hire the best ecommerce service provider so that you can get your views reflected on a corporate platform. Use of advanced technologies is important but the same time it should be simple enough to access and explore, else the visitors will take no time to get away of the maze.

You must always keep the fact in mind that if you are looking forward to selling service or products online, you are going to require your customers use your website to make a purchase. So, usability counts a major role in ecommerce website design. You must ensure the process is easy enough to move forward immediately with the purchasing decision, complete the order placement and payment process and ultimately receive the quality product as been expected.

Apart from all these, you must have a highly encrypted online payment processing which is paramount to your customers. In other words, you should give your potential customers no reason to abandon their shopping cart before completing the online transaction.


#754 From: "ggloiu" <ggloiu@...>
Date: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:42 pm
Subject: You have received an important Message!
ggloiu
Send Email Send Email
 
You have received an important Message! Check your message here:
http://azncowboy.zoomshare.com/files/hottie.htm

#755 From: John Albin Wilkins <johnalbinwilkins@...>
Date: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:09 pm
Subject: Responsive images and the redirect performance hit
johnalbin
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all,

I've been contemplating the issue of responsive images, single HTML source, and
proxy cacheing. I know that Steve Souders has measured the performance hit of a
redirect at about 500ms, but is that a price worth paying for this issue?

If we had a single source HTML that had used an image url like
http://server/images/detect/my-image.png, we could watch that all
"/images/detect/" URLs with a server-side device capability detection script
that would then redirect the browser to the actual image needed for that device,
e.g. http://server/images/mobile-sized/my-image.png.

That type of setup would work fine with both proxy servers and with browser
local cache since each image URL is safe to cache.

Or perhaps this idea could be augmented or combined with other techniques?

  - John


--
John Albin Wilkins
@JohnAlbin
john@...

#756 From: Jason Grigsby <jason@...>
Date: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:20 pm
Subject: Re: Responsive images and the redirect performance hit
jasonlgrigsby
Send Email Send Email
 
On Oct 22, 2011, at 11:09 AM, John Albin Wilkins wrote:

> I've been contemplating the issue of responsive images, single HTML source,
and proxy cacheing. I know that Steve Souders has measured the performance hit
of a redirect at about 500ms, but is that a price worth paying for this issue?

That 500ms hit adds up as you add images to the page. A page with a couple
images, no sweat. Build a Flickr competitor and you’re paying a stiff penalty.

> If we had a single source HTML that had used an image url like
http://server/images/detect/my-image.png, we could watch that all
"/images/detect/" URLs with a server-side device capability detection script
that would then redirect the browser to the actual image needed for that device,
e.g. http://server/images/mobile-sized/my-image.png.
>
> That type of setup would work fine with both proxy servers and with browser
local cache since each image URL is safe to cache.

TinySRC does essentially this same thing but without the redirect. It would be
worth looking at what James has done to avoid proxy caching issues.

> Or perhaps this idea could be augmented or combined with other techniques?

Adaptive Images combines server-side scaling with client side detection in an
interesting package. I have a list of different techniques and their benefits
and disadvantages here:
http://www.cloudfour.com/responsive-imgs-part-2/

There are compromises with every technique. :-)

-Jason

#757 From: John Albin Wilkins <johnalbinwilkins@...>
Date: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: Responsive images and the redirect performance hit
johnalbin
Send Email Send Email
 
Actually, Jason, I totally meant to mention your responsive images blog posts in
my initial email. Great resource. It's those blog posts that got me thinking
about what some other ways we could tackle this. And, yeah, I can see the
penalty would be quite stiff because I believe it would be:
   .5 seconds x number of images / number of concurrent requests

I wasn't able to do the math in my head when I sent the original email at 3am.
:-p

Regarding proxy caching when the URL is the same, the only solution I know of is
to send headers that disable caching. Which blows since it disables proxy
caching and browser caching.

  - John

On Oct 23, 2011, at 2:20 AM, Jason Grigsby wrote:

>
> On Oct 22, 2011, at 11:09 AM, John Albin Wilkins wrote:
>
>> I've been contemplating the issue of responsive images, single HTML source,
and proxy cacheing. I know that Steve Souders has measured the performance hit
of a redirect at about 500ms, but is that a price worth paying for this issue?
>
> That 500ms hit adds up as you add images to the page. A page with a couple
images, no sweat. Build a Flickr competitor and you’re paying a stiff penalty.
>
>> If we had a single source HTML that had used an image url like
http://server/images/detect/my-image.png, we could watch that all
"/images/detect/" URLs with a server-side device capability detection script
that would then redirect the browser to the actual image needed for that device,
e.g. http://server/images/mobile-sized/my-image.png.
>>
>> That type of setup would work fine with both proxy servers and with browser
local cache since each image URL is safe to cache.
>
> TinySRC does essentially this same thing but without the redirect. It would be
worth looking at what James has done to avoid proxy caching issues.
>
>> Or perhaps this idea could be augmented or combined with other techniques?
>
> Adaptive Images combines server-side scaling with client side detection in an
interesting package. I have a list of different techniques and their benefits
and disadvantages here:
> http://www.cloudfour.com/responsive-imgs-part-2/
>
> There are compromises with every technique. :-)
>
> -Jason
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

#758 From: "Martin Sutherland" <martin@...>
Date: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:20 pm
Subject: Google Analytics for mobile
sunpig_martin
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm working on a site that does server-side UA detection to serve up different HTML for mobile devices, but with the same URLs for both desktop and mobile. I'm digging into Google Analytics for the mobile site right now, and am bumping up some questions...

First of all, Google now has a special version of Analytics for Mobile devices (I'll call it "GAM" for short): http://code.google.com/mobile/analytics/docs/  

Instead of using a JavaScript snippet, the GAM solution involves writing out an <img /> tag to the page. The img src attribute points to your own server. When the img is requested, your server returns a 1x1 pixel GIF to the browser, and then sends an HTTP request from the server to the GA back-end.

Writing out a custom <img> tag is trivial, and Google provide sample code in PHP, .NET, Perl, and JSP for generating the GIF and making the external HTTP request. But I'm wondering if it is worth using this round-about technique at all for a new site whose audience will be predominantly based in Western Europe (at least, for now), i.e. lots of phones that do actually execute JS. It would be easier just to slide in the JS snippet. Does anyone have a feel (or actual figures) for how much mobile traffic gets missed by using the traditional GA JS snippet?

Secondly, what are your thoughts about using the same or separate GA profiles for tracking desktop and mobile users? They both use the same URLs, and allow for (mostly) the same interactions. (Perhaps consider the two versions as just "themes".) Do you have any suggestions about tracking and comparing the performance and interactions on the two versions?

Best regards,

-Martin.


#759 From: Stephanie Rieger <steph@...>
Date: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: Google Analytics for mobile
yiibu_steph
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Martin,
We're using Google's 'mobile' method for the responsive browser.nokia.com site and it's so far worked quite well to track all traffic (mobile and otherwise). We have another client who so far has only been using the JS version (on a standalone mobile site) and we are pretty sure that this approach has caused them to miss out on data from lower end phones as these are completely absent from the stats despite high market share in the country in question.

I believe you can also extend the parameters passed using the mobile tracking code to improve the range of data being tracked.  (I only heard about this yesterday so have yet to try it).

PS - I also seem to recall reading in Google's docs that combining the two methods in an attempt to capture the widest range of stats possible is not recommended.

Steph

On 27 Oct 2011, at 18:20, Martin Sutherland wrote:

 

I'm working on a site that does server-side UA detection to serve up different HTML for mobile devices, but with the same URLs for both desktop and mobile. I'm digging into Google Analytics for the mobile site right now, and am bumping up some questions...

First of all, Google now has a special version of Analytics for Mobile devices (I'll call it "GAM" for short): http://code.google.com/mobile/analytics/docs/  

Instead of using a JavaScript snippet, the GAM solution involves writing out an <img /> tag to the page. The img src attribute points to your own server. When the img is requested, your server returns a 1x1 pixel GIF to the browser, and then sends an HTTP request from the server to the GA back-end.

Writing out a custom <img> tag is trivial, and Google provide sample code in PHP, .NET, Perl, and JSP for generating the GIF and making the external HTTP request. But I'm wondering if it is worth using this round-about technique at all for a new site whose audience will be predominantly based in Western Europe (at least, for now), i.e. lots of phones that do actually execute JS. It would be easier just to slide in the JS snippet. Does anyone have a feel (or actual figures) for how much mobile traffic gets missed by using the traditional GA JS snippet?

Secondly, what are your thoughts about using the same or separate GA profiles for tracking desktop and mobile users? They both use the same URLs, and allow for (mostly) the same interactions. (Perhaps consider the two versions as just "themes".) Do you have any suggestions about tracking and comparing the performance and interactions on the two versions?

Best regards,

-Martin.




#760 From: Marc Guay <marc.guay@...>
Date: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: Google Analytics for mobile
mguay11
Send Email Send Email
 
> I believe you can also extend the parameters passed using the mobile tracking
code to improve the range of data being tracked.  (I only heard about this
yesterday so have yet to try it).

I've added the Page Title field to the parameters succesfully.  Don't
forget that the tracking ID starts with MO and not UA.

Marc

#761 From: "Martin Sutherland" <martin@...>
Date: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:16 pm
Subject: Re: Google Analytics for mobile
sunpig_martin
Send Email Send Email
 

Thanks, Steph. Are you using the GA-mobile just for page impressions? I'm also starting to wonder how I can coerce it into tracking events (in-page clicks et al.) like the full GA product.  ("Virtual" page impressions that correspond to actions?)

-Martin.

--- In mobile-web@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie Rieger <steph@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Martin,
> We're using Google's 'mobile' method for the responsive browser.nokia.com site and it's so far worked quite well to track all traffic (mobile and otherwise). We have another client who so far has only been using the JS version (on a standalone mobile site) and we are pretty sure that this approach has caused them to miss out on data from lower end phones as these are completely absent from the stats despite high market share in the country in question.
>
> I believe you can also extend the parameters passed using the mobile tracking code to improve the range of data being tracked. (I only heard about this yesterday so have yet to try it).
>
> PS - I also seem to recall reading in Google's docs that combining the two methods in an attempt to capture the widest range of stats possible is not recommended.
>
> Steph
>
> On 27 Oct 2011, at 18:20, Martin Sutherland wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm working on a site that does server-side UA detection to serve up different HTML for mobile devices, but with the same URLs for both desktop and mobile. I'm digging into Google Analytics for the mobile site right now, and am bumping up some questions...
> >
> > First of all, Google now has a special version of Analytics for Mobile devices (I'll call it "GAM" for short): http://code.google.com/mobile/analytics/docs/
> >
> > Instead of using a JavaScript snippet, the GAM solution involves writing out an <img /> tag to the page. The img src attribute points to your own server. When the img is requested, your server returns a 1x1 pixel GIF to the browser, and then sends an HTTP request from the server to the GA back-end.
> >
> > Writing out a custom <img> tag is trivial, and Google provide sample code in PHP, .NET, Perl, and JSP for generating the GIF and making the external HTTP request. But I'm wondering if it is worth using this round-about technique at all for a new site whose audience will be predominantly based in Western Europe (at least, for now), i.e. lots of phones that do actually execute JS. It would be easier just to slide in the JS snippet. Does anyone have a feel (or actual figures) for how much mobile traffic gets missed by using the traditional GA JS snippet?
> >
> > Secondly, what are your thoughts about using the same or separate GA profiles for tracking desktop and mobile users? They both use the same URLs, and allow for (mostly) the same interactions. (Perhaps consider the two versions as just "themes".) Do you have any suggestions about tracking and comparing the performance and interactions on the two versions?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > -Martin.
> >
> >
> >
>

#762 From: Jason Grigsby <jason@...>
Date: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:17 pm
Subject: Re: Google Analytics for mobile
jasonlgrigsby
Send Email Send Email
 
On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:49 AM, Stephanie Rieger wrote:

> We're using Google's 'mobile' method for the responsive browser.nokia.com site
and it's so far worked quite well to track all traffic (mobile and otherwise).

The reason most analytics vendors moved to javascript based tags was:

* Ease of implementation
* Easy way to eliminate bot that don’t execute javascript

I assume Google is good at eliminating bots using the mobile method. That would
be thing to watch out for. You also won’t get all of the detail that can be
detected via JS (e.g., screen size)

> We have another client who so far has only been using the JS version (on a
standalone mobile site) and we are pretty sure that this approach has caused
them to miss out on data from lower end phones as these are completely absent
from the stats despite high market share in the country in question.

Yep.

> PS - I also seem to recall reading in Google's docs that combining the two
methods in an attempt to capture the widest range of stats possible is not
recommended.

It will result in the page being counted twice and screw up the metrics. You
could use the mobile version in a noscript tag and the regular javascript for
everything else. The two things to watch for there would be:

* Browsers that support javsacript, but slowly or poorly
* Does it exclude spiders successfully? FWIW, this seems like less of an issue
because if they don’t have this solved, the ‘mobile’ version will suffer as
well.

-Jason

--

Jason Grigsby
+1 (503) 290-1090 o
+1 (503) 502-7211 m
jason@...
http://cloudfour.com

#763 From: "Martin Sutherland" <martin@...>
Date: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: Google Analytics for mobile
sunpig_martin
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks, Jason! Putting the server-side tracker pixel inside a noscript is a sensible option. If we get enough volume through the site, I might see if we can run an A:B test on just the img pixel vs the JS snippet to get some hard data on how they measure up. It's the kind of thing someone must have done already, but I haven't found any actual figures. It'll vary strongly by a site's visitor profile, but I'd love to see at least some numbers.

-Martin.


--- In mobile-web@yahoogroups.com, Jason Grigsby <jason@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:49 AM, Stephanie Rieger wrote:
>
> > We're using Google's 'mobile' method for the responsive browser.nokia.com site and it's so far worked quite well to track all traffic (mobile and otherwise).
>
> The reason most analytics vendors moved to javascript based tags was:
>
> * Ease of implementation
> * Easy way to eliminate bot that don't execute javascript
>
> I assume Google is good at eliminating bots using the mobile method. That would be thing to watch out for. You also won't get all of the detail that can be detected via JS (e.g., screen size)
>
> > We have another client who so far has only been using the JS version (on a standalone mobile site) and we are pretty sure that this approach has caused them to miss out on data from lower end phones as these are completely absent from the stats despite high market share in the country in question.
>
> Yep.
>
> > PS - I also seem to recall reading in Google's docs that combining the two methods in an attempt to capture the widest range of stats possible is not recommended.
>
> It will result in the page being counted twice and screw up the metrics. You could use the mobile version in a noscript tag and the regular javascript for everything else. The two things to watch for there would be:
>
> * Browsers that support javsacript, but slowly or poorly
> * Does it exclude spiders successfully? FWIW, this seems like less of an issue because if they don't have this solved, the `mobile' version will suffer as well.
>
> -Jason
>
> --
>
> Jason Grigsby
> +1 (503) 290-1090 o
> +1 (503) 502-7211 m
> jason@...
> http://cloudfour.com
>

#764 From: Caleb Wong <carbon.caleb@...>
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:13 pm
Subject: viewport on mobile devices
ca1ebo
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi

I'm currently working on a mobile (only) site, the site is currently targeted for smart phones.
therefore I have the viewport set to the example template from the Mobile Boilerplate.
<meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0, user-scalable=no"/>

The viewport is non-scalable, therefore the user cannot zoom in/out of the content, nor will the content magnify if the user rotates the device to landscape.

Is this good practice? I've seen some mobile site that doesn't allow the user to zoom in/out, but it does magnify when the user hold the device in landscape position.

Interested to hear thoughts around this.

Cheers
Caleb

#765 From: Brad Frost <frostbd@...>
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:29 pm
Subject: Re: viewport on mobile devices
ienjoyhotsoup
Send Email Send Email
 
I tend to lean toward thinking that zooming is a feature.  However, I've heard some valid points from the other side.

Pros of disabling zoom:
  • Sorts out iOS wonky bug that awkwardly zooms in the page on orientation change (there are fixes for this while maintaining zoom)
  • Sorts out a lot of issues that arise with fixed positioned elements (at least on Android, I haven't tried it out on iOS5)
  • More control over design. You don't have to worry about logos, icons, et all getting aliased as you zoom in
Cons of disabling zoom:
  • User can't zoom in (duh). I've been on a few sites where I've needed to further zoom in, despite it not being "optimized" for mobile.  
  • Users can't see image details (especially relevant for images that contain type. I see this a lot with blogs/publications that simply scale down full-sized images)
My recommendation would be to leave it scalable unless you have a good reason not to (i.e. incorporating fixed positioning).  Giving users the option to enhance their experience as they see fit is a good idea.  Don't assume that just because you're creating a mobile-only site, everything's perfect and that the user would never have a need to zoom in.  

I'd love to hear other peoples' thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Brad
__________________________________
Brad Frost
http://bradfrostweb.com
http://twitter.com/brad_frost


On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Caleb Wong <carbon.caleb@...> wrote:
 

Hi


I'm currently working on a mobile (only) site, the site is currently targeted for smart phones.
therefore I have the viewport set to the example template from the Mobile Boilerplate.
<meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0, user-scalable=no"/>

The viewport is non-scalable, therefore the user cannot zoom in/out of the content, nor will the content magnify if the user rotates the device to landscape.

Is this good practice? I've seen some mobile site that doesn't allow the user to zoom in/out, but it does magnify when the user hold the device in landscape position.

Interested to hear thoughts around this.

Cheers
Caleb



#766 From: Paul Irish <paul.irish@...>
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:45 pm
Subject: Re: viewport on mobile devices
paullll.irish
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm currently working on a mobile (only) site, the site is currently targeted for smart phones. therefore I have the viewport set to the example template from the Mobile Boilerplate.

Not sure where exactly that viewport came from but Mobile Boilerplate has allowed scaling for a while now:


#767 From: James Pearce <jamesgpearce@...>
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: viewport on mobile devices
kuriuskat2001
Send Email Send Email
 
I work on the assumption that clever zooming exists mostly because it was needed to cater for sites that had *not* been built with a mobile viewport in mind. (Which was nearly all of them in 2007). i.e. it represents browser vendors' way of kickstarting usage of a web then still heavily wedded to desktop assumptions.

Most sites still are, so I can't see browsers' zooming capabilities going away. But I'd say a properly crafted mobile experience ought to be able to deliberately disable it with a clean conscience.

Might also be one of those site vs app things, dare I say it. Very few apps don't disable it.

James



On 31 October 2011 15:29, Brad Frost <frostbd@...> wrote:
 

I tend to lean toward thinking that zooming is a feature.  However, I've heard some valid points from the other side.


Pros of disabling zoom:
  • Sorts out iOS wonky bug that awkwardly zooms in the page on orientation change (there are fixes for this while maintaining zoom)
  • Sorts out a lot of issues that arise with fixed positioned elements (at least on Android, I haven't tried it out on iOS5)
  • More control over design. You don't have to worry about logos, icons, et all getting aliased as you zoom in
Cons of disabling zoom:
  • User can't zoom in (duh). I've been on a few sites where I've needed to further zoom in, despite it not being "optimized" for mobile.  
  • Users can't see image details (especially relevant for images that contain type. I see this a lot with blogs/publications that simply scale down full-sized images)
My recommendation would be to leave it scalable unless you have a good reason not to (i.e. incorporating fixed positioning).  Giving users the option to enhance their experience as they see fit is a good idea.  Don't assume that just because you're creating a mobile-only site, everything's perfect and that the user would never have a need to zoom in.  

I'd love to hear other peoples' thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Brad
__________________________________
Brad Frost
http://bradfrostweb.com
http://twitter.com/brad_frost


On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Caleb Wong <carbon.caleb@...> wrote:
 

Hi


I'm currently working on a mobile (only) site, the site is currently targeted for smart phones.
therefore I have the viewport set to the example template from the Mobile Boilerplate.
<meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0, user-scalable=no"/>

The viewport is non-scalable, therefore the user cannot zoom in/out of the content, nor will the content magnify if the user rotates the device to landscape.

Is this good practice? I've seen some mobile site that doesn't allow the user to zoom in/out, but it does magnify when the user hold the device in landscape position.

Interested to hear thoughts around this.

Cheers
Caleb




#768 From: Scotty Logan <swl@...>
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:03 pm
Subject: Re: viewport on mobile devices
scotty_w_logan
Send Email Send Email
 
On Oct 31, 2011, at 3:56 PM, James Pearce wrote:
> I work on the assumption that clever zooming exists mostly because it was
needed to cater for sites that had *not* been built with a mobile viewport in
mind. (Which was nearly all of them in 2007). i.e. it represents browser
vendors' way of kickstarting usage of a web then still heavily wedded to desktop
assumptions.
>
> Most sites still are, so I can't see browsers' zooming capabilities going
away. But I'd say a properly crafted mobile experience ought to be able to
deliberately disable it with a clean conscience.

Unless you worry about users with visual acuity issues or physical disabilities.
Imagine your mobile experience for someone with poor eyesight and/or
Parkinson's.

   Scotty

#769 From: James Pearce <jamesgpearce@...>
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:35 pm
Subject: Re: viewport on mobile devices
kuriuskat2001
Send Email Send Email
 
Hm - I thought I'd said something like 'accessibility aside' in my original message, but apparently edited it out inadvertently. (But then you'll have a go at me for saying that too anyway.)

So, of course. 

Hopefully no-one relies on scalable viewports to assert that their mobile creations are magically accessible. And has anyone else ever tried to use position:fixed in iOS5 and a scalable viewport at the same time?

James

On 31 October 2011 16:03, Scotty Logan <swl@...> wrote:
 

On Oct 31, 2011, at 3:56 PM, James Pearce wrote:
> I work on the assumption that clever zooming exists mostly because it was needed to cater for sites that had *not* been built with a mobile viewport in mind. (Which was nearly all of them in 2007). i.e. it represents browser vendors' way of kickstarting usage of a web then still heavily wedded to desktop assumptions.
>
> Most sites still are, so I can't see browsers' zooming capabilities going away. But I'd say a properly crafted mobile experience ought to be able to deliberately disable it with a clean conscience.

Unless you worry about users with visual acuity issues or physical disabilities. Imagine your mobile experience for someone with poor eyesight and/or Parkinson's.

Scotty




--

James Pearce
Sr Director, Developer Relations
Sencha


#770 From: Caleb Wong <carbon.caleb@...>
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:42 pm
Subject: Re: viewport on mobile devices
ca1ebo
Send Email Send Email
 
Ops. My bad. must be 6 months ago?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Paul Irish <paul.irish@...> wrote:
 

I'm currently working on a mobile (only) site, the site is currently targeted for smart phones. therefore I have the viewport set to the example template from the Mobile Boilerplate.

Not sure where exactly that viewport came from but Mobile Boilerplate has allowed scaling for a while now:



#771 From: Brad Frost <frostbd@...>
Date: Thu Nov 3, 2011 6:28 am
Subject: Re: viewport on mobile devices
ienjoyhotsoup
Send Email Send Email
 
And has anyone else ever tried to use position:fixed in iOS5 and a scalable viewport at the same time?
 
I started playing around with fixed positioning, scaling and scrollable regions in iOS5. Here's my test: http://bit.ly/mobilefixed

  1. On the first page I didn't disable scaling, and the result is an odd little parallax effect on the fixed header. 
  2. The second page has a fixed header and disabled scaling.  It behaves like we're used to seeing on a lot of sites out there.
  3. The third page I tested out iOS5's newly supported scrollable regions with scaling enabled. I figure it can accomplish the same sort of fixed effect.  Here's the basic CSS:
    .scrollable section{
    height: 364px; 
    overflow: scroll;
    -webkit-overflow-scrolling: touch;
    }

    I noticed that the scrollable region's gravity is actually quite a bit different than the regular page scroll gravity. 
  4. The fourth page contains a scrollable region with scaling disabled. It behaves as you might expect it to. 
I then went through on a Droid running 2.2.1, Droid Incredible's (2.2), SenseUI browser, Firefox, Opera Mobile and Opera Mini.
  • Android's browsers running 2.2 and Opera Mini don't seem to support fixed positioning at all. (I know that 2.3 supports it, although I've seen bugs/weirdness there as well)
  • SenseUI browser allows you to scale page even when you explicitly turn it off (different issue altogether) 
  • Firefox and Opera Mobile wait until the page is done scrolling then awkwardly snaps the element to the top of the viewport
  • For the scrollable regions, all the browsers crop the content off with no way to access below the fold
The unfortunate conclusion is that fixed positioning and scrollable regions do not degrade gracefully in non-iOS browsers. I know this isn't anything groundbreaking, just look at Twitter or Gmail for iOS and Android and you'll see fixed positioning in one but not the other. 

This sad reality is particularly obnoxious because these positioning techniques unlock a whole lot of potential for mobile web experiences. It's a shame it can't be a simple enhancement to the UI.

I'm going to test these on a few more devices and try to do a little more research on them. If you care to view them on your own devices and report back, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Brad
__________________________________
Brad Frost
http://bradfrostweb.com
http://twitter.com/brad_frost



On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 7:35 PM, James Pearce <jamesgpearce@...> wrote:
 

Hm - I thought I'd said something like 'accessibility aside' in my original message, but apparently edited it out inadvertently. (But then you'll have a go at me for saying that too anyway.)


So, of course. 

Hopefully no-one relies on scalable viewports to assert that their mobile creations are magically accessible. And has anyone else ever tried to use position:fixed in iOS5 and a scalable viewport at the same time?

James


On 31 October 2011 16:03, Scotty Logan <swl@...> wrote:
 

On Oct 31, 2011, at 3:56 PM, James Pearce wrote:
> I work on the assumption that clever zooming exists mostly because it was needed to cater for sites that had *not* been built with a mobile viewport in mind. (Which was nearly all of them in 2007). i.e. it represents browser vendors' way of kickstarting usage of a web then still heavily wedded to desktop assumptions.
>
> Most sites still are, so I can't see browsers' zooming capabilities going away. But I'd say a properly crafted mobile experience ought to be able to deliberately disable it with a clean conscience.

Unless you worry about users with visual acuity issues or physical disabilities. Imagine your mobile experience for someone with poor eyesight and/or Parkinson's.

Scotty




--

James Pearce
Sr Director, Developer Relations
Sencha



#772 From: "sommsnet@..." <somms@...>
Date: Thu Nov 3, 2011 11:22 pm
Subject: Re: viewport on mobile devices
juliorabadang
Send Email Send Email
 
Very interesting. Recently I did similar experiments with the same frustrating result. I've read that Android 3 has a real fixed positioning support, like iOS 5. Could somebody with an Android 3 at hand go to this test page and share the results with us?
Thanks

--
Enviado desde mi teléfono Android con K-9 Mail. Disculpa mi brevedad

Brad Frost <frostbd@...> escribió:
 

And has anyone else ever tried to use position:fixed in iOS5 and a scalable viewport at the same time?
 
I started playing around with fixed positioning, scaling and scrollable regions in iOS5. Here's my test: http://bit.ly/mobilefixed

  1. On the first page I didn't disable scaling, and the result is an odd little parallax effect on the fixed header. 
  2. The second page has a fixed header and disabled scaling.  It behaves like we're used to seeing on a lot of sites out there.
  3. The third page I tested out iOS5's newly supported scrollable regions with scaling enabled. I figure it can accomplish the same sort of fixed effect.  Here's the basic CSS:
    .scrollable section{
    height: 364px; 
    overflow: scroll;
    -webkit-overflow-scrolling: touch;
    }

    I noticed that the scrollable region's gravity is actually quite a bit different than the regular page scroll gravity. 
  4. The fourth page contains a scrollable region with scaling disabled. It behaves as you might expect it to. 
I then went through on a Droid running 2.2.1, Droid Incredible's (2.2), SenseUI browser, Firefox, Opera Mobile and Opera Mini.
  • Android's browsers running 2.2 and Opera Mini don't seem to support fixed positioning at all. (I know that 2.3 supports it, although I've seen bugs/weirdness there as well)
  • SenseUI browser allows you to scale page even when you explicitly turn it off (different issue altogether) 
  • Firefox and Opera Mobile wait until the page is done scrolling then awkwardly snaps the element to the top of the viewport
  • For the scrollable regions, all the browsers crop the content off with no way to access below the fold
The unfortunate conclusion is that fixed positioning and scrollable regions do not degrade gracefully in non-iOS browsers. I know this isn't anything groundbreaking, just look at Twitter or Gmail for iOS and Android and you'll see fixed positioning in one but not the other. 

This sad reality is particularly obnoxious because these positioning techniques unlock a whole lot of potential for mobile web experiences. It's a shame it can't be a simple enhancement to the UI.

I'm going to test these on a few more devices and try to do a little more research on them. If you care to view them on your own devices and report back, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Brad
__________________________________
Brad Frost
http://bradfrostweb.com
http://twitter.com/brad_frost



On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 7:35 PM, James Pearce <jamesgpearce@...> wrote:
 

Hm - I thought I'd said something like 'accessibility aside' in my original message, but apparently edited it out inadvertently. (But then you'll have a go at me for saying that too anyway.)


So, of course. 

Hopefully no-one relies on scalable viewports to assert that their mobile creations are magically accessible. And has anyone else ever tried to use position:fixed in iOS5 and a scalable viewport at the same time?

James


On 31 October 2011 16:03, Scotty Logan <swl@...> wrote:
 

On Oct 31, 2011, at 3:56 PM, James Pearce wrote:
> I work on the assumption that clever zooming exists mostly because it was needed to cater for sites that had *not* been built with a mobile viewport in mind. (Which was nearly all of them in 2007). i.e. it represents browser vendors' way of kickstarting usage of a web then still heavily wedded to desktop assumptions.
>
> Most sites still are, so I can't see browsers' zooming capabilities going away. But I'd say a properly crafted mobile experience ought to be able to deliberately disable it with a clean conscience.

Unless you worry about users with visual acuity issues or physical disabilities. Imagine your mobile experience for someone with poor eyesight and/or Parkinson's.

Scotty




--

James Pearce
Sr Director, Developer Relations
Sencha



#773 From: Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...>
Date: Fri Nov 4, 2011 2:45 pm
Subject: Scrolling layer conundrum on iOS
ppkwdf
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,

I've run into a serious conundrum with a scrolling layer script that
should be pretty simple.

Test page: http://quirksmode.org/mobilismsite/Mobilism.htm
Script: http://quirksmode.org/mobilismsite/scrollscript.js

The problem: scroll the layer with speaker headshots to the right.
This should work, but my old iOS 3.2 device subsequently follows the
link in the headshot you touched. That should NOT happen (and mostly
doesn't happen in the other browsers: Android, Dolfin, BlackBerry, and
Opera).

First of all: if you have an iOS 5 device, please go to the page and
do the test.  Does the iOS5 device always follow the link if you
scroll the layer?

In addition to scrolling the layer I want two other features:

1) If the user touchmoves (mostly) up or down, I want to cancel my own
script and hand over the event to the OS for further action; i.e.
scrolling the entire page.
2) The headshots should be clickable, but only if the user does not scroll.

Separately these two features are easy to implement. Together they
cause a hell of a problem.

I handle feature 1 by reading out the deltaX and deltaY. If deltaY is
larger than deltaX I return true ontouchmove, and thus hand over the
event to the OS. If not I handle it myself and return false
ontouchmove. This works.

However, iOS 3.2 follows the link. The only way of cancelling this is
returning false ontouchstart, but that also cancels the handing over
of the event to the OS.

I have no idea how to cancel the following of the link without
returning false ontouchstart. I tried to return false on a click
event, but it seems that's never fired. Ideally I should copy the true
or false from the touchmove script and return that value ontouchstart,
too, but obviously that's impossible since the touchmove event only
fires after touchstart has been handled completely.

Right now I don't know how to proceed. If iOS5 handles this (mostly)
correctly I'm sorely tempted to forget about iOS 3.2

Has anyone encountered this problem before? How did you solve it?

Thanks,

--------------------------------------------
ppk, mobile platform strategist
http://quirksmode.org/about/
+.31.6.29585782
--------------------------------------------

#774 From: Barney Carroll <barney.carroll@...>
Date: Fri Nov 4, 2011 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: Scrolling layer conundrum on iOS
barney.carroll@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hiya PPK,

On my iOS5, it behaves as you intended.

As far as faulty behaviour is concerned, I can't test iOS3.2, but doesn't ontouchend trigger the link? Can't you handle the event from there?

If this doesn't work, how about, always returning false ontouchstart, and handling link behaviour with script?

Regards,
Barney Carroll

barney.carroll@...
07594 506 381

Messages 745 - 774 of 881   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Add to My Yahoo!      XML What's This?

Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines NEW - Help