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#794 From: "Amit" <whistling@...>
Date: Thu Dec 1, 2011 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: responsive design - newspaper experience on iPad
amitkoth
Send Email Send Email
 
many thanks Trygve

--- In mobile-web@yahoogroups.com, Trygve Lie <post@...> wrote:
>
>
> > reading experience on the iPad.
>
> If your looking for readability and UX for "the iPad" I find Bibliotype
> a good starting point. Its optimized for reading pleasure.
> Site: http://craigmod.com/bibliotype/
> Demo: http://craigmod.com/bibliotype/demo/
>
>
>
> > I mean a mobile Safari website of course
>
> There are more mobile platforms and mobile browsers than just Safari.
> Don't go in the trap of just targeting Safari and the iDevices...
>
> Trygve
>

#795 From: Caleb Wong <carbon.caleb@...>
Date: Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:36 am
Subject: Styling CSS/ Testing for iPad
ca1ebo
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi

Like to know how other developers are doing their testing when building for tablet (specifically ipad)
I'm using media queries only for ipad with the below 3 declations:

/* shared styled for portrait & landscape */
@media only screen and (device-width: 768px) { }
/* portrait specific */
@media only screen and (min-device-width: 481px) and (max-device-width: 1024px) and (orientation:portrait) { }
/* landscape specific */
@media only screen and (min-device-width: 481px) and (max-device-width: 1024px) and (orientation:landscape) { }

Anyone using javascript to do orientation detection to style page? I find it to be a tad slower compare to media queries.

This works great on the iPad, however the caveat is I can't really test on my browser easily, have to run back & forth between refresh on my iPad.

Interested to hear what others are doing when developing. :)

Cheers
Caleb 

#796 From: James Pearce <jamesgpearce@...>
Date: Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:44 am
Subject: Re: Styling CSS/ Testing for iPad
kuriuskat2001
Send Email Send Email
 
Obligatory plug for a recent blog post where I looked at the JS-based measurements (but also matchMedia which is something of a bridging of the worlds): 


And the data to go with it:


I don't make recommendations especially, but the diversity present in the data might cause you to consider some approaches above others (depending on what you are trying to do with your app, viewport, orientation etc )

Some great extra info in the comments, I should add. Keyboards, zooming, OEMs etc etc

James


On 4 December 2011 22:36, Caleb Wong <carbon.caleb@...> wrote:
 

Hi


Like to know how other developers are doing their testing when building for tablet (specifically ipad)
I'm using media queries only for ipad with the below 3 declations:

/* shared styled for portrait & landscape */
@media only screen and (device-width: 768px) { }
/* portrait specific */
@media only screen and (min-device-width: 481px) and (max-device-width: 1024px) and (orientation:portrait) { }
/* landscape specific */
@media only screen and (min-device-width: 481px) and (max-device-width: 1024px) and (orientation:landscape) { }

Anyone using javascript to do orientation detection to style page? I find it to be a tad slower compare to media queries.

This works great on the iPad, however the caveat is I can't really test on my browser easily, have to run back & forth between refresh on my iPad.

Interested to hear what others are doing when developing. :)

Cheers
Caleb 



#797 From: "sailingnewssa" <keith@...>
Date: Tue Dec 6, 2011 1:45 pm
Subject: Re: Google Analytics for mobile
sailingnewssa
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Martin

I built the pre-login mobi site for a bank in South Africa and we have been
using 'GAM' very successfully for a while now. The results are more than
adequate (especially when you hook it into the rest of the Google suite of
tools).

We stayed away from using the JavaScript version due to the potential problem of
slowing down a site that already has to deal with less than optimal bandwidth as
well as devices that may struggle with the extra load.

Hope this helps

#798 From: Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 3:57 pm
Subject: What would cause a resize event?
ppkwdf
Send Email Send Email
 
I've started working on the resize event on mobiles and tablets, and
oh my God it's a mess.

What I'd like to know now is when you would expect the resize event to
fire. So far I have identified five occasions:

- onorientationchange
- when the user zooms
- when the content of the <meta viewport> changes
- when content is added to the page, so that the page becomes longer
- when wide content is added to the page, so that the page becomes wider

At least one browser fires the event for all of these five.

Can you think of more actions that would cause a resize event?

--
--------------------------------------------
ppk, mobile platform strategist
http://quirksmode.org/about/
+.31.6.29585782
--------------------------------------------

#799 From: Trygve Lie <post@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 5:01 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
trygvelie
Send Email Send Email
 
I would expect a resize event when the browser window are resized.

I suspect that some mobile phones does resize the window when a on
screen keyboard occur on the screen.

Example: on the Samsung SII it looks like the on screen keyboard - which
occupy a part of the screen when one type a URL - affect the initial
screen values.

If one open a fresh new and blank window in WebKit on the SII and enters
a URL an then press enter to load it, window.outerHeight, .clientHeight
etc on the loaded page will return a value MINUS the height of the on
screen keyboard. It seems like the browser window are resized to the
screen size minus the keyboard size, but when the keyboard disappear the
values for the window are not re-adjusted to a screen size without the
keyboard.

If we hit reload (which does not involve showing the on screen keyboard)
on the page we wrote the URL to, values for
window.outerHeight, .clientHeight etc changes to values matching the
screen.

Very annoying thing and I've also heard about a similar problem on some
LG phones. I've not checked if any resize event are fired when this
happen.

Iow; if its the case that some phones does resize the browser window
when a on screen keyboards appear, I would expect a resize event when
that happens.

Kind regards
Trygve



On Wed, 2011-12-07 at 16:57 +0100, Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
> I've started working on the resize event on mobiles and tablets, and
> oh my God it's a mess.
>
> What I'd like to know now is when you would expect the resize event to
> fire. So far I have identified five occasions:
>
> - onorientationchange
> - when the user zooms
> - when the content of the <meta viewport> changes
> - when content is added to the page, so that the page becomes longer
> - when wide content is added to the page, so that the page becomes wider
>
> At least one browser fires the event for all of these five.
>
> Can you think of more actions that would cause a resize event?
>

#800 From: Joe Crawford <joe@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
websandiego
Send Email Send Email
 
On Wednesday, December 7, 2011, Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...> wrote:
> I've started working on the resize event on mobiles and tablets, and
> oh my God it's a mess.
>
> What I'd like to know now is when you would expect the resize event to
> fire. So far I have identified five occasions:
>
> - onorientationchange
> - when the user zooms
> - when the content of the <meta viewport> changes
> - when content is added to the page, so that the page becomes longer
> - when wide content is added to the page, so that the page becomes wider
>
> At least one browser fires the event for all of these five.
>
> Can you think of more actions that would cause a resize event?

A drag event on an element that is taken outside the bounds of the current viewport such that it is wider?

Joe Crawford
@artlung

--
Joe Crawford
joe@... ~ +1.805-857-3951 ~ http://artlung.com/ twitter: @artlung

#801 From: Bryan Rieger <bryan@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
bryanrieger
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey PPK,

First off I just want to make sure we're all talking about the same things:
http://www.quirksmode.org/mobile/viewports2.html

FYI I'm interpreting viewports a little differently than you do.

Visual Viewport
The actual viewable area (ie: webview component) as determined by the physical
screen size minus browser chrome, etc. I often refer to this as the 'key hole'.

Layout Viewport
The representation of the entire 'page' as determined by the browser. On this
iPhone this is often set to 960px wide for devices that don't specify a meta
width value. I often think of this as the 'page behind the key hole'.

> What I'd like to know now is when you would expect the resize event to
> fire. So far I have identified five occasions:
>
> - onorientationchange

Yes.
If physical width changes from 320 to 480, etc that is a resize of the (visual)
viewport, although often the layout viewport is simply scaled accordingly to fit
the new screen dimensions.

> - when the user zooms

No.
Zooming is simply a scaling of the layout viewport (page) within the visual
viewport (screen hardware).

> - when the content of the <meta viewport> changes

Yes.
This directly impacts the layout viewport and a resize event should be triggered
in order to communicate the change in size. The best example of this type of
behaviour (whether we like it or not) is probably the Zoom Level setting (in
Settings) on Android. The choice of Far, Medium or Close (Kindle Fire also
provides a Huge setting) changes the layout viewport. This in many cases
triggers media queries appropriate to the new layout viewport size, thereby
demonstrating that the viewport has indeed changed size.

> - when content is added to the page, so that the page becomes longer

Yes.
Adding content to the page (layout viewport) should result in a resize event
being fired.

> - when wide content is added to the page, so that the page becomes wider

Yes (same as above).

> At least one browser fires the event for all of these five.

Yup… :(

> Can you think of more actions that would cause a resize event?

No, I think that actually covers it very well IMHO.

Cheers,

Bryan

#802 From: Bryan Rieger <bryan@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
bryanrieger
Send Email Send Email
 
Slight correction (this is hurting my head):

"Layout Viewport
The representation of the entire 'page' as determined by the browser. On this
iPhone this is often set to 960px wide for devices that don't specify a meta
width value. I often think of this as the 'page behind the key hole'."

Should be:

Layout Viewport
The representation of the entire 'page' as determined by the browser. On this
iPhone this is often set to 960px wide for PAGES that don't specify a meta width
value. I often think of this as the 'page behind the key hole'.

Regards,

Bryan Rieger
Designer, Yiibu


On 7 Dec 2011, at 15:57, Peter-Paul Koch wrote:

> I've started working on the resize event on mobiles and tablets, and
> oh my God it's a mess.
>
> What I'd like to know now is when you would expect the resize event to
> fire. So far I have identified five occasions:
>
> - onorientationchange
> - when the user zooms
> - when the content of the <meta viewport> changes
> - when content is added to the page, so that the page becomes longer
> - when wide content is added to the page, so that the page becomes wider
>
> At least one browser fires the event for all of these five.
>
> Can you think of more actions that would cause a resize event?
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
> ppk, mobile platform strategist
> http://quirksmode.org/about/
> +.31.6.29585782
> --------------------------------------------
>

#803 From: James Pearce <jamesgpearce@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
kuriuskat2001
Send Email Send Email
 
Some edge cases you might also explore:

 - CSS zoom, transforms, font-sizes etc that change the size of elements such that they expand the page
 - changing browser settings while on a page (e.g. those browsers that have viewport behavior as a setting)
 - keyboard appearance & disappearance
 - input type widgets (datetime etc) appearance & disappearance

JP

On 7 December 2011 07:57, Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...> wrote:
 

I've started working on the resize event on mobiles and tablets, and
oh my God it's a mess.

What I'd like to know now is when you would expect the resize event to
fire. So far I have identified five occasions:

- onorientationchange
- when the user zooms
- when the content of the <meta viewport> changes
- when content is added to the page, so that the page becomes longer
- when wide content is added to the page, so that the page becomes wider

At least one browser fires the event for all of these five.

Can you think of more actions that would cause a resize event?

--
--------------------------------------------
ppk, mobile platform strategist
http://quirksmode.org/about/
+.31.6.29585782
--------------------------------------------



#804 From: Bryan Rieger <bryan@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
bryanrieger
Send Email Send Email
 
On 7 Dec 2011, at 17:56, James Pearce wrote:

> Some edge cases you might also explore:
>
>
>  - CSS zoom, transforms, font-sizes etc that change the size of elements such
that they expand the page

I think this may fall into 'content added to the page' bucket, but along with
Joe's recommendation for "A drag event on an element that is taken outside the
bounds of the current viewport such that it is wider?" …essentially it's changes
in the DOM either through modification of existing content or the
addition/removal of content that would cause a reflow and potentially fire a
resize event if warranted.

>  - changing browser settings while on a page (e.g. those browsers that have
viewport behavior as a setting)

Hmm, this kinda speaks to 'when the user zooms' and 'when the meta viewport'
value changes, but I'm not entirely sure that it doesn't present another edge
case.
More exploration required.

>  - keyboard appearance & disappearance

Ah, excellent addition!
Does the keyboard impact the layout or visual viewport, or is it simply an
overlay?

>  - input type widgets (datetime etc) appearance & disappearance

This follows on and related to the appearance / disappearance of the keyboard
above.
Essentially, any native UI widget/control that is added/remove to the screen.

Thanks James!

.b

#805 From: David Most <dave@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 6:38 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
david_most
Send Email Send Email
 
iOS and perhaps other browsers hide the address bar in response to window.scrollTo(0,1).  Not sure if this resizes the page, but it does affect the area available for visible content.  The reverse occurs upon tapping the titlebar (address bar is revealed).



On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Bryan Rieger <bryan@...> wrote:
On 7 Dec 2011, at 17:56, James Pearce wrote:

> Some edge cases you might also explore:
>
>
>  - CSS zoom, transforms, font-sizes etc that change the size of elements such that they expand the page

I think this may fall into 'content added to the page' bucket, but along with Joe's recommendation for "A drag event on an element that is taken outside the bounds of the current viewport such that it is wider?" …essentially it's changes in the DOM either through modification of existing content or the addition/removal of content that would cause a reflow and potentially fire a resize event if warranted.

>  - changing browser settings while on a page (e.g. those browsers that have viewport behavior as a setting)

Hmm, this kinda speaks to 'when the user zooms' and 'when the meta viewport' value changes, but I'm not entirely sure that it doesn't present another edge case.
More exploration required.

>  - keyboard appearance & disappearance

Ah, excellent addition!
Does the keyboard impact the layout or visual viewport, or is it simply an overlay?

>  - input type widgets (datetime etc) appearance & disappearance

This follows on and related to the appearance / disappearance of the keyboard above.
Essentially, any native UI widget/control that is added/remove to the screen.

Thanks James!

.b

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#806 From: Mark Newhouse <newhouse@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 6:40 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
lowenddslr
Send Email Send Email
 

On Dec 7, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Bryan Rieger wrote:


- input type widgets (datetime etc) appearance & disappearance

This follows on and related to the appearance / disappearance of the keyboard above.
Essentially, any native UI widget/control that is added/remove to the screen.

In Mobile Webkit, invoking these native UI widget/controls can cause the page to zoom (in addition to their appearance on/over the page), which may trigger a resize event.

--Mark

#807 From: "lyzadanger" <lyza@...>
Date: Wed Dec 7, 2011 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
lyzadanger
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi, Guys!

Running out the door to something but was reminded that...

We definitely saw some Android browsers firing resize if, while scrolling, the
browser chrome  was revealed. That is, browser chrome starts as invisible off
the top of the viewport; user scrolls; chrome shows up; resize fires. Similar to
the keyboard-showing-up mentioned by James, yeah.

--Lyza

--- In mobile-web@yahoogroups.com, James Pearce <jamesgpearce@...> wrote:
>
> Some edge cases you might also explore:
>
>  - CSS zoom, transforms, font-sizes etc that change the size of elements
> such that they expand the page
>  - changing browser settings while on a page (e.g. those browsers that have
> viewport behavior as a setting)
>  - keyboard appearance & disappearance
>  - input type widgets (datetime etc) appearance & disappearance
>
> JP
>
> On 7 December 2011 07:57, Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > I've started working on the resize event on mobiles and tablets, and
> > oh my God it's a mess.
> >
> > What I'd like to know now is when you would expect the resize event to
> > fire. So far I have identified five occasions:
> >
> > - onorientationchange
> > - when the user zooms
> > - when the content of the <meta viewport> changes
> > - when content is added to the page, so that the page becomes longer
> > - when wide content is added to the page, so that the page becomes wider
> >
> > At least one browser fires the event for all of these five.
> >
> > Can you think of more actions that would cause a resize event?
> >
> > --
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ppk, mobile platform strategist
> > http://quirksmode.org/about/
> > +.31.6.29585782
> > --------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>

#808 From: Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...>
Date: Thu Dec 8, 2011 12:21 am
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
ppkwdf
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks, all, for your suggestions. The following was added to my list:

- Drag-and-drop an element to outside the viewport
- The keyboard pops up.
- The date picker pops up
- Changing the browser’s zoom level in the settings
- window.scrollTo(0,1) because it removes the browser chrome in some browsers.
- Scrolling down so far that the browser chrome is revealed.

> FYI I'm interpreting viewports a little differently than you do.
>
> Visual Viewport
> The actual viewable area (ie: webview component) as determined by the physical
screen size minus browser chrome, etc. I often refer to this as the 'key hole'.
>
> Layout Viewport
> The representation of the entire 'page' as determined by the browser. On this
iPhone this is often set to 960px wide for pages that don't specify a meta width
value. I often think of this as the 'page behind the key hole'.

Yes, that's slightly different form my definition.

I *think* the difference is due to what we consider "true" pixels. You
seem to calculate everything from device pixels, while I use CSS
pixels as my frame of reference. In my opinion web developers don't
need to know or care about device pixels, but should take CSS pixels
as leading. We don't care how many hardware pixels there are on the
device, we care how many CSS pixels the user is seeing or should see.

This could become a nice theoretical discussion that explodes heads
all around the Web.


--
--------------------------------------------
ppk, mobile platform strategist
http://quirksmode.org/about/
+.31.6.29585782
--------------------------------------------

#809 From: "Crowd" <crowdfinchtechinfo@...>
Date: Thu Dec 8, 2011 6:39 am
Subject: CrowdFinch is a web design and development company in India
crowdfinchte...
Send Email Send Email
 
CrowdFinch is a leading professional Web Development and Internet Marketing
company offering services like Web Design, Web Application Development, Mobile
Application Development and Web Marketing Solutions. We provide an innovative
solutions with multilevel testing  that fulfill our clients.

More services visit our business website - http://www.crowdfinch.com

#810 From: "vhsrjj" <vhsrjj@...>
Date: Thu Dec 8, 2011 8:22 am
Subject: Looking for SEX partner!
vhsrjj
Send Email Send Email
 
Looking for SEX partner! Check my H.O.T photos here:
http://kassonnccs.webs.com/intimate.htm

#811 From: Luca Passani <luca.passani@...>
Date: Thu Dec 8, 2011 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: Looking for SEX partner!
luca_passani
Send Email Send Email
 

yet another even that may cause a resize?

Luca

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 3:22 AM, vhsrjj <vhsrjj@...> wrote:
 

Looking for SEX partner! Check my H.O.T photos here:
http://kassonnccs.webs.com/intimate.htm


 

#812 From: Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...>
Date: Fri Dec 9, 2011 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
ppkwdf
Send Email Send Email
 
OK, my research is done and the results are at
http://quirksmode.org/dom/events/resize_mobile.html

Summary:

- When the layout viewport changes, all browsers that are able to
change it fire a resize event.
- When the HTML element changes, half of the browsers fire a resize event.
- When the visual viewport changes, browsers run around like headless
chicken and do whatever they please.

Note: I retained my own definitions of the viewports. I'll discuss
Bryan's suggestions another time; changing your definitions in
mid-test is generally a bad idea.

Discuss.


--------------------------------------------
ppk, mobile platform strategist
http://quirksmode.org/about/
+.31.6.29585782
--------------------------------------------

#813 From: Stephanie Rieger <steph@...>
Date: Fri Dec 9, 2011 2:54 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
yiibu_steph
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi PPK,
Thanks for this! Very useful. 

One addition that you may consider however is to expand the Zoom category. The current test only covers one of the ways (double-tap/pinch) that a user can zoom on Android devices. The other two are the Zoom 'setting' and the on-screen Zoom controls. 

These have been available for some time (as far back as 1.6 if I recall although each manufacturer decides how exactly to implement them) and it is due to this OEM specific diversity that we end up with quite varied results.

Adding them would likely make for a far messier chart :-) but would better reflect the reality of the overall Zoom behaviour.

Steph

On 9 Dec 2011, at 13:14, Peter-Paul Koch wrote:

 

OK, my research is done and the results are at
http://quirksmode.org/dom/events/resize_mobile.html

Summary:

- When the layout viewport changes, all browsers that are able to
change it fire a resize event.
- When the HTML element changes, half of the browsers fire a resize event.
- When the visual viewport changes, browsers run around like headless
chicken and do whatever they please.

Note: I retained my own definitions of the viewports. I'll discuss
Bryan's suggestions another time; changing your definitions in
mid-test is generally a bad idea.

Discuss.

--------------------------------------------
ppk, mobile platform strategist
http://quirksmode.org/about/
+.31.6.29585782
--------------------------------------------



#814 From: James Pearce <jamesgpearce@...>
Date: Fri Dec 9, 2011 3:35 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
kuriuskat2001
Send Email Send Email
 
Nice! (or not, depending on how you need to work with it ;-) )

Did you find the event fired much during the initial loading of the page? In my experience, the dimensions will often change once or twice between the time at which pre-<body> script is executed and some time after the document load event.

i.e. When did you bind the listener?

James



On 9 December 2011 05:14, Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...> wrote:
 

OK, my research is done and the results are at
http://quirksmode.org/dom/events/resize_mobile.html

Summary:

- When the layout viewport changes, all browsers that are able to
change it fire a resize event.
- When the HTML element changes, half of the browsers fire a resize event.
- When the visual viewport changes, browsers run around like headless
chicken and do whatever they please.

Note: I retained my own definitions of the viewports. I'll discuss
Bryan's suggestions another time; changing your definitions in
mid-test is generally a bad idea.

Discuss.



--------------------------------------------
ppk, mobile platform strategist
http://quirksmode.org/about/
+.31.6.29585782
--------------------------------------------



#815 From: Peter-Paul Koch <pp.koch@...>
Date: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: What would cause a resize event?
ppkwdf
Send Email Send Email
 


On 9 December 2011 15:54, Stephanie Rieger <steph@...> wrote:


Hi PPK,
Thanks for this! Very useful. 

One addition that you may consider however is to expand the Zoom category. The current test only covers one of the ways (double-tap/pinch) that a user can zoom on Android devices. The other two are the Zoom 'setting' and the on-screen Zoom controls. 

Tested it, and the resize event fires on Symbian, but not on Android or Firefox. The other browsers don't have a text size setting, except for Safari, but there it's in the Setting app so you have to leave the browser to set it, which invalidates the test (I think).
 
>Did you find the event fired much during the initial loading of the page? In my experience, the dimensions will often change once or twice between the time at which pre-<body> script is executed and some time after the document load event.

Tested that, too, but no browser so far fired a resize event. But I'm not 100% sure that my test case is correct. See http://quirksmode.org/m/tests/resize.html

--------------------------------------------
ppk, mobile platform strategist
http://quirksmode.org/about/
+.31.6.29585782
--------------------------------------------

#816 From: "jamesnewbery" <james.newbery@...>
Date: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:29 pm
Subject: Desktop browser detection
jamesnewbery
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm currently exploring simple device detection options using user agent
matching and would appreciate some advice and pearls of wisdom learned from
experience. I am working on a project to develop a separate mobile experience
for a site that has a pre-existing desktop version.

The most common approach seems to be to test for mobile devices and redirect to
a mobile-specific domain (e.g.
http://mobiforge.com/developing/story/lightweight-device-detection-php and
http://detectmobilebrowsers.com/). The regex involved is fairly verbose, and
likely to need fairly frequent updates.

However, I would like to know what experiences people have had using the reverse
approach, whereby desktop browsers are detected instead. I have found two
examples of this:

- 'Not-device detection':
http://smartmobtoolkit.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/not-device-detection-example-cod\
e/

- 'Not Not Mobile': http://notnotmobile.appspot.com/

It seems to me that if you are delivering a single mobile experience (i.e.
low-end devices or feature phones get the same content as smartphones) that this
approach makes sense, given the complexity of the regex involved and the
relative infrequency of updates that are likely to be needed.

Does anyone have any experiences or thoughts to share of implementing this form
of device detection?

#817 From: "jonnyschneider_aus" <schneider.jonny@...>
Date: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: Desktop browser detection
jonnyschneid...
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Hi James,

We do something kind of similar, which involves detection of mobile and desktop
browsers based at different layers.

Similarly to you, there was a pre-existing and very 'mature' website built for
desktop browsers with a big ol' clunky CMS behind the scenes, making any sort
ground-up mobile-first type implementation totally off the table.

By adding server side device device detection, we now support smartphone and
feature phone devices independently (separate mobile sites, HTML5 and XHTML
MP1.2 respectively). This happens a fairly stock WURFL implementation.

The part you might be interested in, is the pre-filtering of desktop browsers
that also occurs. For performance reasons, we didn't want every single
web-request piping through WURFL-based device categorisation. So, right up front
there is a very simple regex algorithm which detects desktop browsers. IF true,
bypass mobile device categorisation (and redirection) and go straight to
desktop. IF false, carry on to device detection.

This has worked really well for us. Although I'm not sure I can recommend the
desktop detection stand alone. We have the safety net of "undetected" desktop
browsers being sorted out via WURFL if they're not picked up in the first pass
of detection. If that wasn't there, I suspect things would be a lot messier, and
we'd probably be tweaking our algorithm all the time.

Hope that helps.




--- In mobile-web@yahoogroups.com, "jamesnewbery" <james.newbery@...> wrote:
>
> I'm currently exploring simple device detection options using user agent
matching and would appreciate some advice and pearls of wisdom learned from
experience. I am working on a project to develop a separate mobile experience
for a site that has a pre-existing desktop version.
>
> The most common approach seems to be to test for mobile devices and redirect
to a mobile-specific domain (e.g.
http://mobiforge.com/developing/story/lightweight-device-detection-php and
http://detectmobilebrowsers.com/). The regex involved is fairly verbose, and
likely to need fairly frequent updates.
>
> However, I would like to know what experiences people have had using the
reverse approach, whereby desktop browsers are detected instead. I have found
two examples of this:
>
> - 'Not-device detection':
http://smartmobtoolkit.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/not-device-detection-example-cod\
e/
>
> - 'Not Not Mobile': http://notnotmobile.appspot.com/
>
> It seems to me that if you are delivering a single mobile experience (i.e.
low-end devices or feature phones get the same content as smartphones) that this
approach makes sense, given the complexity of the regex involved and the
relative infrequency of updates that are likely to be needed.
>
> Does anyone have any experiences or thoughts to share of implementing this
form of device detection?
>

#818 From: "mobilworld@..." <mobilworld@...>
Date: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:42 pm
Subject: Mobile World India Conference 2012 (Jan 21, Bangalore)
mobilworld...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,

I got to know of an exciting event happening in Bangalore on Jan 21st.

I guess Mobile World India 2012 comes with the exciting keynote sessions on `How
Operators will meet the Future Traffic Demand', `What Makes a mobile application
successful' and `The Future of Mobile Technology .

I believe it is worth attending as there are interesting topics. (See
the Sessions below).

When: January 21, 2012 (Saturday)
Where: NIMHANS Convention Centre, Hosur Road, Near Diary Circle, Bangalore.
Time: 8.30AM to 5.50PM

The Conference organizers will call you back to confirm. When I called, they had
300 more seats left.

Please find below is the url to go through the website

http://tinyurl.com/mobilewb


Thanks,
William. M

Sessions on:
Digital Marketing: Innovative strategy ,
Social Media Marketing Strategy,
Strategic Marketing - The Need of the Hour,
Mobile Marketing: True Mobile Strategy,
Role of marketing mix in digital era,
Effective Mobile Marketing: Reach to mass community.

#819 From: "sdjhnloi" <sdjhnloi@...>
Date: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:13 pm
Subject: You've got a private message!
sdjhnloi
Send Email Send Email
 
You've got a private message! Check it here:
http://file1.hpage.com/007409/48/html/hottie.htm

#820 From: "jamesnewbery" <james.newbery@...>
Date: Wed Jan 4, 2012 1:47 pm
Subject: Test device shopping list
jamesnewbery
Send Email Send Email
 
Like most that are relatively new to mobile web development, I currently use
emulators and simulators for most of my testing, which is not ideal. I would
love to start obtaining some cheap, second-hand devices which cover common
platforms, input mechanisms, etc.

As I am an independent developer, my budget will not run to a Yiibu-esque
library of devices just yet
(http://bagcheck.com/bag/7264-yiibu-s-tools-of-the-trade). However, I need to
start somewhere, and would appreciate any suggestions for possible devices, tips
for getting hold of good deals, and any other worthy advice.

Most of my clients are UK-based, but I am currently working on a long-term
project that is targeted solely to US consumers.

If there are enough replies, I hope to write up the responses in some form, as
there is not a great deal of advice or info out there just now.

Jim

tinnedfruit.com

#821 From: Brad Frost <frostbd@...>
Date: Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: Test device shopping list
ienjoyhotsoup
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Jim,
I think it's a great idea to start investing in some devices! Here's my recommendation:
  • iPhone (iOS5)
    For obvious reasons. Aso make sure to download and test on Opera Mini .
  • iPod touch (iOS4)
    This works really well for me as it's not terribly expensive. It isn't used as my main device so I don't feel like I'm missing out leaving it un-updated.
  • Android device(s) (2.1, 2.2, 2.3)
    Get at least one Android device. If you prowl around you can find a lot of cheap ones on eBay or daily deals sites. What to look for: variety of OS versions, sizes, resolutions, and manufacturers. I've had lots of issues with browsers on HTC devices, and it's definitely good to have one running the vanilla OS. Also, you get access to these wonderful browsers:
    • Opera Mobile
    • Opera Mini
    • Firefox Mobile
    • Dolphin HD
    • Dolphin Mini
  • WP7 (post-Mango)
    I noticed a lot of people on Twitter post-holiday mentioning how they've acquired a Windows Phone to test/play with. I think it's a good idea and a worthy investment.
  • WebOS device (Pre or Pixi)
    Even though WebOS's long-term viability is up in the air, the devices are dirt-cheap. The smaller form factor also makes for good testing.
  • Blackberry <6 device (Bold or Curve)
    I think these are important devices to have. It's a humbling experience testing on a Blackberry running 4.5, 4.6, 5.0. It keeps me honest as it butchers a lot JS and even CSS. It's also a great reminder to accommodate for non-touch interfaces in your designs. If you look you can find these guys for cheap on eBay (I just got a Curve for $17).
  • Nokia devices
    Obviously the UK market is a bit different than the US, so I don't have specific recommendations, but I use an old N-95 to test on and it serves as a great "lowest common denominator" device.
  • Kindle Fire
    This is a worthy investment as well. It's an increasingly-popular device and is one of the most affordable tablets on the market.
  • iPad
    Obviously not the cheapest thing in the world, but insanely popular (and super fun to own!)
  • Miscellaneous Android Tablets
    The smattering of Android tablets out there are nice to have, but I wouldn't say required to start with. If budget allows, definitely snag one or two.
I hope this helps. I'm curious to see what other people recommend as well.  I think getting a bunch of used wi-fi enabled devices is the best way to go. Obviously it helps having a device or 3 with an actual plan helps for field testing.
__________________________________
Brad Frost
http://bradfrostweb.com
http://twitter.com/brad_frost



On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:47 AM, jamesnewbery <james.newbery@...> wrote:
 

Like most that are relatively new to mobile web development, I currently use emulators and simulators for most of my testing, which is not ideal. I would love to start obtaining some cheap, second-hand devices which cover common platforms, input mechanisms, etc.

As I am an independent developer, my budget will not run to a Yiibu-esque library of devices just yet (http://bagcheck.com/bag/7264-yiibu-s-tools-of-the-trade). However, I need to start somewhere, and would appreciate any suggestions for possible devices, tips for getting hold of good deals, and any other worthy advice.

Most of my clients are UK-based, but I am currently working on a long-term project that is targeted solely to US consumers.

If there are enough replies, I hope to write up the responses in some form, as there is not a great deal of advice or info out there just now.

Jim

tinnedfruit.com



#822 From: Stu Robson <alwaystwisted@...>
Date: Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:59 pm
Subject: Re: Test device shopping list
stur1978
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Hi Jim,

Before Brad 'beat me to it' () with some great phones to look at getting for testing I was going to suggest having a look at Stephanie Riegers' latest blogpost - http://stephanierieger.com/a-plea-for-progressive-enhancement/ where she has listed some devices that she used.

Best 

Stu

#823 From: Jordan Dobson <jordandobson@...>
Date: Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:11 pm
Subject: Re: Test device shopping list
jordanrdobson
Send Email Send Email
 
Completely agree with Brad's List!

That's nearly exactly what I have. I also recommend the blackberry playbook as its a little different than the others.

Also on the android side of things I tried to get the crappiest phone I could. Essentially very little ram, tiny screen, low resolution, etc. this really helps you see how your design degrades and what are truly acceptable don't sizes. 

I also agree on HTC device on android. The did something terrible to their forms and it's quite frustrating to work around. Worth picking one of those up in 2.3 if you get the kindle fire.

Also don't forget android 4.0 is out now too.

Jordan Dobson • Designer / Developer • 425-444-8014 • JordanDobson.com

On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Stu Robson <alwaystwisted@...> wrote:

 

Hi Jim,


Before Brad 'beat me to it' (<330.gif>) with some great phones to look at getting for testing I was going to suggest having a look at Stephanie Riegers' latest blogpost - http://stephanierieger.com/a-plea-for-progressive-enhancement/ where she has listed some devices that she used.

Best 

Stu


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