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#22586 From: Alan Cahill <neoprog@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
alcahill2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks Tomas,

Just what I wanted... it would also be good to get CCTV footage.

Best Regards

Alan

In message <4CC99DCB2DFC4AD39CA1EE1B3E97C475@asteroidi>, Tomas Kohout
<tomkohout@...> writes
>     
>
>    Dear Alan
>
>    Here is some:
>
>    http://www.heliotown.com/Utah_Fireball_Ashcraft.html
>
>    The second video is interesting.
>
>    Tomas
>
>    _____
>
>    From: mpml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
>    Of Alan
>    Cahill
>    Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:40 PM
>    To: Franck Marchis
>    Cc: Patrick Wiggins; Matson, Robert D.; Minor Planet Mailing List
>    Subject: Re: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
>
>    Hi there,
>
>    Does anyone know where I can download video of this fireball?
>    I have quite a collection of video's of fireballs, but cannot find
>    a
>    downloadable version of this one.
>
>    Best Regards
>
>    Alan
>
Alan Cahill (J94)
Abbeydale Observatory,
Gloucester.
UK
http://mountabbeydale.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

#22585 From: "Tomas Kohout" <tomkohout@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:19 pm
Subject: RE: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
tomkohout@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Alan

Here is some:

http://www.heliotown.com/Utah_Fireball_Ashcraft.html

The second video is interesting.

Tomas



   _____

From: mpml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan
Cahill
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:40 PM
To: Franck Marchis
Cc: Patrick Wiggins; Matson, Robert D.; Minor Planet Mailing List
Subject: Re: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT





Hi there,

Does anyone know where I can download video of this fireball?
I have quite a collection of video's of fireballs, but cannot find a
downloadable version of this one.

Best Regards

Alan

In message <37E6BAA2-6FDF-
<mailto:37E6BAA2-6FDF-4BDB-A595-807484DBABEC%40berkeley.edu>
4BDB-A595-807484DBABEC@...>, Franck
Marchis <fmarchis@berkeley. <mailto:fmarchis%40berkeley.edu> edu> writes
>http://www.ksl. <http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8714738>
com/?nid=148&sid=8714738
>
>"A remarkable midnight fireball"
>
>On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:34 AM, Patrick Wiggins wrote:
>
>> Thanks for checking. I'll be interested to see what you find.
>>
>> It definitely was bright. I was sitting in my warm room with the
>> curtains closed and it was so bright I could see the breakup
>> _through_ the curtains.
>>
>> Impressive!
>>
>> patrick
>>

Alan Cahill (J94)
Abbeydale Observatory,
Gloucester.
UK
http://mountabbeyda <http://mountabbeydale.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk>
le.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#22584 From: scotty@...
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:37 pm
Subject: Friday Nov 20th Scottys Sky broadcast schedule of (234) Barbara occultation
scotty.degen...
Offline Offline
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All,

I have placed a schedule timeline of the planned broadcast of the (234)
Barbara occultation on my Barbara page
(http://scottysmightymini.com/PR/234_Barbara_CallForObservers.htm). If you
aren't able to join us at the shadow path you can watch results live:


Live broadcast of the (234) Barbara Asteroidal occultation effort in
Central Florida will begin around 2PM EST (19h UT) Friday Nov 20th (NOTE:
some areas I will be traveling in have limited cellular coverage, so there
may be times my signal drops out. Keep watching, as I eventually do come
back online)

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/scottys-sky


·        2:00 pm – 4:00 pm EST (19h – 21h UT) Friday Nov 20: Preplanning
of deployment for the (234) Barbara occultation at University of Central
Florida.

·        4:00 pm – 6:00 pm EST (21h – 23h UT) Driving to first deployment
site.

·        6:00 pm – 10 pm EST (23h UT Fri – 3h UT Sat ) Deploy up to 20 sites.

·        10 pm EST begin transmitting live view through telescope near
centerline.

·        10:18 pm EST (3h UT Sat) Dr. Eberhard Bredner will phone from
Europe to announce live the results of the shadow passing there (they get
Barbara’s shadow 20 minutes before we do).

·        10:38 pm EST (3:38: UT Sat) Barbara’s shadow passes through the
field of view I am broadcasting. So you can watch live to see if the star
blinks out or not from Barbara passing in front of it.

·        Final results of everyone’s data will be posted at:
http://www.asteroidoccultation.com/observations/Results/

Clear skies!!

Scotty

Columbia, TN USA
http://scottysmightymini.com/
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/scottys-sky
scotty@...
888-687-5444 toll free to my cell

#22583 From: Alan Cahill <neoprog@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
alcahill2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi there,

Does anyone know where I can download video of this fireball?
I have quite a collection of video's of fireballs, but cannot find a
downloadable version of this one.

Best Regards

Alan

In message <37E6BAA2-6FDF-4BDB-A595-807484DBABEC@...>, Franck
Marchis <fmarchis@...> writes
>http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8714738
>
>"A remarkable midnight fireball"
>
>On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:34 AM, Patrick Wiggins wrote:
>
>> Thanks for checking. I'll be interested to see what you find.
>>
>> It definitely was bright. I was sitting in my warm room with the
>> curtains closed and it was so bright I could see the breakup
>> _through_ the curtains.
>>
>> Impressive!
>>
>> patrick
>>

Alan Cahill (J94)
Abbeydale Observatory,
Gloucester.
UK
http://mountabbeydale.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

#22582 From: Aldo Vitagliano <alvitagl@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:46 am
Subject: Re: {MPML} Re: Recent close flyby investigation required
alvitagl
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At 08.44 19/11/2009 -0000, Varyonyx wrote:
>
> Hmmh, we should not forget that the orbital dataset of 2006BF190 is more
>than one year old!.
> If no interim perturbation of his orbit, caused by other solarsystem
>objects, had happened calculations were probably right. To exclude this a
>backtrace of his orbit according to the orbits of the current dataset of
>known solarsystem objects must be performed. At the moment is seems to be a
>wise decision to stay tuned for the next astrometric measurement on 2006
>BF190 and keep the flyby in mind :)
>

It is important to recognise how the different sources of uncertainty
contribute to the overall uncertainty on a given estimate (in this case the
estimate of the flyby distance between the two objects on Oct. 19).

These are:
#1) Ephemeris uncertainty of 1st body (depending on accuracy and extension
of its observational arc and from length of last "unobserved" arc).
#2) Ephemeris uncertainty of 2d body (depending on accuracy and extension
of its observational arc and from length of last "unobserved" arc).
#3) Unmodeled perturbations taking place during last "unobserved" arc.
#4) Perturbation from the close flyby itself.

In our case:
#1 is the dominant uncertainty, and is of the order of 1000 km.
#2 is a minor one, being of the order of 100 km.
#3 is totally negligible in this specific case, since no relevant
encounters are occurring during the last few years (you may want to test
this point using Solex). In the vast majority of other cases it would be
negligible anyhow, if the "unobserved arc" is not longer than a few years.
Mutual close encounters resulting in a variation of mean motion of the
perturbed body larger of 0.1 arcsecs/year are very rare and require a close
approach to a really massive asteroid.
#4 is actually the point referred by my previous post, and is even more
negligible than #3.

Regards




	 Aldo Vitagliano
	 Dipart. di Chimica, Universita' di Napoli "Federico II"
	 Complesso Universitario di M.S. Angelo, via Cintia
         I-80126 Napoli, Italy
	 Fax: +39-081674090 voice: +39-081674462

#22581 From: "Varyonyx" <smartmedia3000@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:44 am
Subject: Re: Recent close flyby investigation required
varyonyx
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--- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, "alvitagl" <alvitagl@...> wrote:

> At least not in any appreciable way.

Hmmh, we should not forget that the orbital dataset of 2006BF190 is more than
one year old!.
If no interim perturbation of his orbit, caused by other solarsystem objects,
had happened calculations were probably right. To exclude this a backtrace of
his orbit according to the orbits of the current dataset of known solarsystem
objects must be performed. At the moment is seems to be a wise decision to stay
tuned for the next astrometric measurement on 2006 BF190 and keep the flyby in
mind :)

Best regards

Alexander Christ (VectorSCOPE)

#22580 From: "alvitagl" <alvitagl@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:15 am
Subject: Re: Recent close flyby investigation required
alvitagl
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--- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, "Christian" <chrisk0304@...> wrote:
>
> The two asteroids are so large and are very close at the flyby that they
probably perturb each other. That would influence the distance calculated.

It is not so. At least not in any appreciable way.
The relative velocity of two asteroids is normally so much larger than their
mutual "escape velocity" that the minimum distance of approach is essentially
unaffected by their mutual gravitational interaction.

What can be affected is their future orbit, and this is indeed the basis for the
dynamical determination of asteroid masses.
However this is not the case for the two bodies mentioned, because even the mass
of the largest one (3313) is so tiny that no appreciable effects result from the
flyby.

Regards

#22579 From: Franck Marchis <fmarchis@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:47 am
Subject: Re: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
f_marchis
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http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8714738

"A remarkable midnight fireball"

On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:34 AM, Patrick Wiggins wrote:

> Thanks for checking. I'll be interested to see what you find.
>
> It definitely was bright. I was sitting in my warm room with the
> curtains closed and it was so bright I could see the breakup
> _through_ the curtains.
>
> Impressive!
>
> patrick
>
> On 18 Nov 2009, at 02:30, Matson, Robert D. wrote:
>
> > Hi Patrick,
> >
> > I'll check the NexRad Doppler radar for the region when the
> > data gets archived on Thursday. If the bolide was large enough,
> > and close enough to one or more NexRad sites, its terminal
> > burst and/or smoke trail may show up. --Rob
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpml@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Patrick Wiggins
> > Sent: Wed 11/18/2009 1:08 AM
> > To: mpml mpml (list)
> > Subject: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
> >
> > About 07:07:05 UT today a brilliant bolide broke up and lit up the
> sky over northern Utah. Five minutes later, almost to the second, I
> heard a low rumbling sound. I've had reports of it also being seen
> in southern Utah, southern Nevada and possibly even the LA area.
> >
> > Assuming the rumbling sound was connected to the meteor that would
> put the breakup about 100 km to my SW. That puts it high above
> Granite Peak in Utah's West Desert.
> >
> > That just happens to be in the middle of the military's test and
> training range so I doubt there will be anyone out there looking for
> pieces. :)
> >
> > Anyone else on this list see it?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > patrick
> > 40 38 N 112 18 W
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#22578 From: "Christian" <chrisk0304@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: Recent close flyby investigation required
chrisk0304
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
The two asteroids are so large and are very close at the flyby that they
probably perturb each other. That would influence the distance calculated. I am
not sure if the calculations done with OrbFit and Solex take this into account.
If the calculations are done only with the Sun, the planets and their moons,
Ceres, Pallas and Vesta as perturbers, then the two asteroid orbits would show a
too large distance at closest approach and the orbits after closest approach
would be wrong. I think ...

Best regards,

Christian

--- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, "Varyonyx" <smartmedia3000@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Group,
>
> 2:1 for 27000km ;) Thank you for analysis!
> I will check the algorithms to detect the cause of discrepancy...
> But the prinicpal detection algorithm of such events works ;)
>
> This was and will not be the last event of this sort ;)
> If anything similar is forthcoming i will report it.
>
> Best regards
>
> Alexander Christ (VectorSCOPE)
>
> P.S Next observation of 2006BF190 will be interesting ;)
>
> --- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, "wlodarczyk_i" <astrobit@> wrote:
> >
> > At 2009-Oct-19 minimum distance between nominal orbits of asteroids 3313 and
2006BF190
> > is about 27000 km. It is the least distance around this date.
> > Computations were made with the use of the OrbFit software.
> > Best regards,
> > Ireneusz
> >
> >
> > --- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, Aldo Vitagliano <alvitagl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > At 08.45 18/11/2009 -0000, varyonyx wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A numerical simulation based on SDM indicated a close flyby
> > > >"""" at 2009-Oct-19 00h00mUT at Eventdistance of approx. 13500km.
> > > >
> > >
> > > According to my software Solex/Exorb, the minimum distance was about
double
> > > of that:
> > > 25900 - 27900 km (2-sigma)
> > > at 23:49 +/- 4 min (UT) of Oct 18
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > >  Aldo Vitagliano
> > >  Dipart. di Chimica, Universita' di Napoli "Federico II"
> > >  Complesso Universitario di M.S. Angelo, via Cintia
> > >         I-80126 Napoli, Italy
> > >  Fax: +39-081674090 voice: +39-081674462
> > >
> >
>

#22577 From: "Christian" <chrisk0304@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:51 pm
Subject: Re: Recent close flyby investigation required
chrisk0304
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
The two asteroids are so large and are very close at the flyby that they
probably perturb each other. That would influence the distance calculated. I am
not sure if the calculations done with OrbFit and Solex take this into account.
If the calculations are done only with the Sun, the planets and their moons,
Ceres, Pallas and Vesta as perturbers, then the two asteroid orbits would show a
too large distance at closest approach and the orbits after closest approach
would be wrong. I think ...

Best regards,

Christian

--- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, "Varyonyx" <smartmedia3000@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Group,
>
> 2:1 for 27000km ;) Thank you for analysis!
> I will check the algorithms to detect the cause of discrepancy...
> But the prinicpal detection algorithm of such events works ;)
>
> This was and will not be the last event of this sort ;)
> If anything similar is forthcoming i will report it.
>
> Best regards
>
> Alexander Christ (VectorSCOPE)
>
> P.S Next observation of 2006BF190 will be interesting ;)
>
> --- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, "wlodarczyk_i" <astrobit@> wrote:
> >
> > At 2009-Oct-19 minimum distance between nominal orbits of asteroids 3313 and
2006BF190
> > is about 27000 km. It is the least distance around this date.
> > Computations were made with the use of the OrbFit software.
> > Best regards,
> > Ireneusz
> >
> >
> > --- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, Aldo Vitagliano <alvitagl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > At 08.45 18/11/2009 -0000, varyonyx wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A numerical simulation based on SDM indicated a close flyby
> > > >"""" at 2009-Oct-19 00h00mUT at Eventdistance of approx. 13500km.
> > > >
> > >
> > > According to my software Solex/Exorb, the minimum distance was about
double
> > > of that:
> > > 25900 - 27900 km (2-sigma)
> > > at 23:49 +/- 4 min (UT) of Oct 18
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > >  Aldo Vitagliano
> > >  Dipart. di Chimica, Universita' di Napoli "Federico II"
> > >  Complesso Universitario di M.S. Angelo, via Cintia
> > >         I-80126 Napoli, Italy
> > >  Fax: +39-081674090 voice: +39-081674462
> > >
> >
>

#22576 From: "Varyonyx" <smartmedia3000@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: Recent close flyby investigation required
varyonyx
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello Group,

2:1 for 27000km ;) Thank you for analysis!
I will check the algorithms to detect the cause of discrepancy...
But the prinicpal detection algorithm of such events works ;)

This was and will not be the last event of this sort ;)
If anything similar is forthcoming i will report it.

Best regards

Alexander Christ (VectorSCOPE)

P.S Next observation of 2006BF190 will be interesting ;)

--- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, "wlodarczyk_i" <astrobit@...> wrote:
>
> At 2009-Oct-19 minimum distance between nominal orbits of asteroids 3313 and
2006BF190
> is about 27000 km. It is the least distance around this date.
> Computations were made with the use of the OrbFit software.
> Best regards,
> Ireneusz
>
>
> --- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, Aldo Vitagliano <alvitagl@> wrote:
> >
> > At 08.45 18/11/2009 -0000, varyonyx wrote:
> > >
> > > A numerical simulation based on SDM indicated a close flyby
> > >"""" at 2009-Oct-19 00h00mUT at Eventdistance of approx. 13500km.
> > >
> >
> > According to my software Solex/Exorb, the minimum distance was about double
> > of that:
> > 25900 - 27900 km (2-sigma)
> > at 23:49 +/- 4 min (UT) of Oct 18
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >  Aldo Vitagliano
> >  Dipart. di Chimica, Universita' di Napoli "Federico II"
> >  Complesso Universitario di M.S. Angelo, via Cintia
> >         I-80126 Napoli, Italy
> >  Fax: +39-081674090 voice: +39-081674462
> >
>

#22575 From: "wlodarczyk_i" <astrobit@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: Recent close flyby investigation required
wlodarczyk_i
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
At 2009-Oct-19 minimum distance between nominal orbits of asteroids 3313 and
2006BF190
is about 27000 km. It is the least distance around this date.
Computations were made with the use of the OrbFit software.
Best regards,
Ireneusz


--- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, Aldo Vitagliano <alvitagl@...> wrote:
>
> At 08.45 18/11/2009 -0000, varyonyx wrote:
> >
> > A numerical simulation based on SDM indicated a close flyby
> >"""" at 2009-Oct-19 00h00mUT at Eventdistance of approx. 13500km.
> >
>
> According to my software Solex/Exorb, the minimum distance was about double
> of that:
> 25900 - 27900 km (2-sigma)
> at 23:49 +/- 4 min (UT) of Oct 18
>
> Regards
>
>  Aldo Vitagliano
>  Dipart. di Chimica, Universita' di Napoli "Federico II"
>  Complesso Universitario di M.S. Angelo, via Cintia
>         I-80126 Napoli, Italy
>  Fax: +39-081674090 voice: +39-081674462
>

#22574 From: Aldo Vitagliano <alvitagl@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:44 pm
Subject: Re: {MPML} Recent close flyby investigation required
alvitagl
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
At 08.45 18/11/2009 -0000, varyonyx wrote:
>
> A numerical simulation based on SDM indicated a close flyby
>"""" at 2009-Oct-19 00h00mUT at Eventdistance of approx. 13500km.
>

According to my software Solex/Exorb, the minimum distance was about double
of that:
25900 - 27900 km (2-sigma)
at 23:49 +/- 4 min (UT) of Oct 18

Regards

	 Aldo Vitagliano
	 Dipart. di Chimica, Universita' di Napoli "Federico II"
	 Complesso Universitario di M.S. Angelo, via Cintia
         I-80126 Napoli, Italy
	 Fax: +39-081674090 voice: +39-081674462

#22573 From: "varyonyx" <smartmedia3000@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:45 am
Subject: Recent close flyby investigation required
varyonyx
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello Group Members,

this is my first post here and a request for a asteroid flyby investigation :)

A numerical simulation based on SDM indicated a close flyby
between Asteroid "Mendel (MPC 3313)" and Asteroid "2006 BF190 (MPC 350561)" at
2009-Oct-19 00h00mUT at Eventdistance of approx. 13500km.

This was not the exact time of MOID and not the MOID itself.
IMHO this was an interesting event so...please could anyone be so kind to
perform a MOID calculation with a covariance analysis for this event?.

According to MPC, Asteroid Mendel is still alive but Asteroid 2006 BF190 was not
observed in the meantime ;) ...

Many thanks in advance...

Alexander Christ (VectorSCOPE)

#22572 From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:34 am
Subject: Re: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
scubaskydive...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks for checking.  I'll be interested to see what you find.

It definitely was bright.  I was sitting in my warm room with the curtains
closed and it was so bright I could see the breakup _through_ the curtains.

Impressive!

patrick

On 18 Nov 2009, at 02:30, Matson, Robert D. wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> I'll check the NexRad Doppler radar for the region when the
> data gets archived on Thursday. If the bolide was large enough,
> and close enough to one or more NexRad sites, its terminal
> burst and/or smoke trail may show up.  --Rob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpml@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Patrick Wiggins
> Sent: Wed 11/18/2009 1:08 AM
> To: mpml mpml (list)
> Subject: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
>
> About 07:07:05 UT today a brilliant bolide broke up and lit up the sky over
northern Utah.  Five minutes later, almost to the second, I heard a low rumbling
sound.  I've had reports of it also being seen in southern Utah, southern Nevada
and possibly even the LA area.
>
> Assuming the rumbling sound was connected to the meteor that would put the
breakup about 100 km to my SW.  That puts it high above Granite Peak in Utah's
West Desert.
>
> That just happens to be in the middle of the military's test and training
range so I doubt there will be anyone out there looking for pieces. :)
>
> Anyone else on this list see it?
>
> Cheers,
>
> patrick
> 40 38 N  112 18 W

#22571 From: "Matson, Robert D." <matsonr@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:30 am
Subject: RE: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT
rdotdaneelol...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Patrick,

I'll check the NexRad Doppler radar for the region when the
data gets archived on Thursday. If the bolide was large enough,
and close enough to one or more NexRad sites, its terminal
burst and/or smoke trail may show up.  --Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: mpml@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Patrick Wiggins
Sent: Wed 11/18/2009 1:08 AM
To: mpml mpml (list)
Subject: {MPML} Bolide 07:07:45 UT

About 07:07:05 UT today a brilliant bolide broke up and lit up the sky over
northern Utah.  Five minutes later, almost to the second, I heard a low rumbling
sound.  I've had reports of it also being seen in southern Utah, southern Nevada
and possibly even the LA area.

Assuming the rumbling sound was connected to the meteor that would put the
breakup about 100 km to my SW.  That puts it high above Granite Peak in Utah's
West Desert.

That just happens to be in the middle of the military's test and training range
so I doubt there will be anyone out there looking for pieces. :)

Anyone else on this list see it?

Cheers,

patrick
40 38 N  112 18 W


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#22570 From: Patrick Wiggins <paw@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:08 am
Subject: Bolide 07:07:45 UT
scubaskydive...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
About 07:07:05 UT today a brilliant bolide broke up and lit up the sky over
northern Utah.  Five minutes later, almost to the second, I heard a low rumbling
sound.  I've had reports of it also being seen in southern Utah, southern Nevada
and possibly even the LA area.

Assuming the rumbling sound was connected to the meteor that would put the
breakup about 100 km to my SW.  That puts it high above Granite Peak in Utah's
West Desert.

That just happens to be in the middle of the military's test and training range
so I doubt there will be anyone out there looking for pieces. :)

Anyone else on this list see it?

Cheers,

patrick
40 38 N  112 18 W

#22569 From: Ron Baalke <baalke@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:58 pm
Subject: NASA's Wise Gets Ready to Survey the Whole Sky
baalke@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Nov. 17, 2009

J.D. Harrington
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-5241
j.d.harrington@...

Whitney Clavin
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
818-354-4673
whitney.clavin@...

RELEASE: 09-269

NASA'S WISE GETS READY TO SURVEY THE WHOLE SKY

WASHINGTON -- NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer, or Wise, is
chilled out, sporting a sunshade and getting ready to roll. NASA's
newest spacecraft is scheduled to roll to the pad on Friday, Nov. 20,
its last stop before launching into space to survey the entire sky in
infrared light.

Wise is scheduled to launch no earlier than 9:09 a.m. EST on Dec. 9
from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. It will circle Earth
over the poles, scanning the entire sky one-and-a-half times in nine
months. The mission will uncover hidden cosmic objects, including the
coolest stars, dark asteroids and the most luminous galaxies.

"The eyes of Wise are a vast improvement over those of past infrared
surveys," said Edward "Ned" Wright, the principal investigator for
the mission at UCLA. "We will find millions of objects that have
never been seen before."

The mission will map the entire sky at four infrared wavelengths with
sensitivity hundreds to hundreds of thousands of times greater than
its predecessors, cataloging hundreds of millions of objects. The
data will serve as navigation charts for other missions, pointing
them to the most interesting targets. NASA's Hubble and Spitzer Space
Telescopes, the European Space Agency's Herschel Space Observatory,
and NASA's upcoming Sofia and James Webb Space Telescope will follow
up on Wise finds.

"This is an exciting time for space telescopes," said Jon Morse,
NASA's Astrophysics Division director at NASA Headquarters in
Washington. "Many of the telescopes will work together, each
contributing different pieces to some of the most intriguing puzzles
in our universe."

Visible light is just one slice of the universe's electromagnetic
rainbow. Infrared light, which humans can't see, has longer
wavelengths and is good for seeing objects that are cold, dusty or
far away. In our solar system, Wise is expected to find hundreds of
thousands of cool asteroids, including hundreds that pass relatively
close to Earth's path. Wise's infrared measurements will provide
better estimates of asteroid sizes and compositions -- important
information for understanding more about potentially hazardous
impacts on Earth.

"With infrared, we can find the dark asteroids other surveys have
missed and learn about the whole population. Are they mostly big,
small, fluffy or hard?" said Peter Eisenhardt, the Wise project
scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.

Wise also will find the coolest of the "failed" stars or brown dwarfs.
Scientists speculate it is possible that a cool star lurks right
under our noses, closer to us than our nearest known star, Proxima
Centauri, which is four light-years away. If so, Wise will easily
pick up its glow.
The mission also will spot dusty nests of stars and swirling
planet-forming disks, and may find the most luminous galaxy in the
universe.

To sense the infrared glow of stars and galaxies, the Wise spacecraft
cannot give off any detectable infrared light of its own. This is
accomplished by chilling the telescope and detectors to ultra-cold
temperatures. The coldest of Wise's detectors will operate at below 8
Kelvin, or minus 445 Fahrenheit.

"Wise is chilled out," said William Irace, the project manager at JPL.
"We've finished freezing the hydrogen that fills two tanks
surrounding the science instrument. We're ready to explore the
universe in infrared."

JPL manages Wise for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington.
The mission was competitively selected under NASA's Explorers Program
managed by the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. The
science instrument was built by the Space Dynamics Laboratory in
Logan, Utah, and the spacecraft was built by Ball Aerospace &
Technologies Corp. in Boulder, Colo. Science operations and data
processing take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center
at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena.

More information about the Wise mission is available online at:

http://www.nasa.gov/wise

-end-

#22568 From: Ron Baalke <baalke@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:55 pm
Subject: Dawn Enters Asteroid Belt -- For Good
baalke@...
Send Email Send Email
 
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2361

Dawn Enters Asteroid Belt -- For Good
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
November 13, 2009

ASTEROID BELT -- NASA's Dawn spacecraft re-entered our solar system's
asteroid belt today, Nov. 13, and this time it will stay there.

Dawn first entered the belt (whose lower boundary may be defined as the
greatest distance Mars gets from the sun (249,230,000 kilometers, or
154,864,000 miles) in June 2008. It remained within the belt for 40 days
before its carefully planned orbital path brought it below the asteroid
belt's lower boundary.

This time around, Dawn's flight path will remain above this hypothetical
lower boundary for the rest of the mission and for the foreseeable
future - Dawn will become the first human-made object to take up
permanent residence in the asteroid belt.

The mission of the 1,098-kilogram (2,421-pound) Dawn spacecraft is to
reconnoiter Vesta and Ceres, the asteroid belt's two most massive
inhabitants -- the asteroid Vesta and dwarf planet Ceres. The goal of
this eight-year, 4.9-billion-kilometer (3-billion-mile) mission is to
answer basic questions about the formation of planets in our solar
system. NASA's unmanned Dawn spacecraft will be the first ever to orbit
two planetary bodies on a single voyage. Dawn is 619 days away from
arrival at its first celestial objective, asteroid Vesta.

For more information on Dawn please visit: http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/

#22567 From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:38 pm
Subject: My reportage and earlier historical studies of impacts
epgrondine
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Hi Rich, all -

Links to my own earlier reporting of (the lack of) NASA impact policies and
funding may found here, along with links to my researches into historical and
proto-historical impacts:

http://manandimpactsintheamericas.blogspot.com/

Please remember that my background was in covering manned space programs. (There
are also links at that site to some of the major human space projects whose
stories I first broke or helped to break.)

Warning: I was able to clear up a lot of mistakes in my first studies of Native
Americans and impacts as I gathered new information for my book.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas
(personally signed copies available to mpml members at a special price)

#22566 From: Ron Baalke <baalke@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:17 pm
Subject: Rosetta Bound for Outer Solar System After Final Earth Swingby
baalke@...
Send Email Send Email
 
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMZC04VU1G_index_0.html

Rosetta bound for outer Solar System after final Earth swingby
European Space Agency
13 November 2009

This morning, mission controllers confirmed that ESA's comet chaser
Rosetta had swung by Earth at 8:45 CET as planned, skimming past our
planet to pick up a gravitational boost for an epic journey to
rendezvous with comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko in 2014.

Rosetta passed over the ocean, just South of the Indonesian island of
Java, at exactly 08:45:40 CET, at a speed of 13.34 km/s with respect to
Earth at an altitude of 2481 km. The swingby was pre-planned and fully
automated, and the spacecraft was in direct communication with Earth at
the time, via the ESA New Norcia Station.

The successful swingby was confirmed at 09:05 CET when mission
controllers re-established contact with Rosetta via ESA's Maspalomas
station in Spain. Although a detailed analyses is in progress,
spacecraft operators have confirmed that the swingby provided a boost of
3.6 km/s.

Europe's comet chaser has now flown a little over 4500 million km of its
7100 million km journey to its destination comet
67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. This was Rosetta's fourth planetary swingby
and the third and final swingby of Earth.

[Image]
Image of Earth beamed back by Rosetta last night


Science close to Earth

Some of Rosetta's instruments have been on since early November,
performing imaging, magnetospheric, and atmospheric observations, as
well as looking for water on the Moon. The first round of images and
data recorded just before and during the swingby will be downloaded
later today.

Rosetta is now departing Earth to meet asteroid (21) Lutetia in July
2010. It has gained sufficient orbital energy to achieve its final goal:
a rendezvous with comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko in 2014. The
spacecraft is scheduled to enter deep-space hibernation by mid 2011 for
the coldest leg of her journey to receive a wake up call only in spring
2014.


For additional details on today's swingby access the Rosetta Blog
http://www.esa.int/blog


For more information:

Andrea Accomazzo, ESA Rosetta Spacecraft Operations Manager
Email: Andrea.Accomazzo @ esa.int

Gerhard Schwehm, ESA Rosetta Mission Manager
Email: Gerhard.Schwehm @ esa.int

Rita Schulz, ESA Rosetta Project Scientist
Email: Rita.Schulz @ esa.int

#22565 From: "Rich Murray" <rmforall@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:34 am
Subject: exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14
rmforall
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exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD
reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray
2009.11.14
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm
Saturday, November 14, 2009
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/31
___________________________________________________


http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/mammoth.html Firestone paper links

http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/TunguskaConferenceA4_Firestone.pdf
37 pages
Firestone, R.B.; West, A.; Revay Zs.; Hagstrum J.T.; Belgya T.;
Que Hee S.S.; and Smith, A.R. (2008)
Analysis of the Younger Dryas Impact Layer,
100 years since Tunguska phenomenon: past, present, and future,
June 26-28, Moscow, in press. 54 references

R.B. Firestone 1,
A. West 2,
Zs. Revay 3,
J. T. Hagstrum 4,
T. Belgya 3,
S.S. Que Hee 5,
and A.R. Smith 1
1 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Berkeley, Ca 94720,
[ #43 Henderson, G.M.; Hall, B.L.; Smith, A.; & Robinson, L.F.
(2006) Chem. Geol. 226, 298-308 ]
2 GeoScience Consulting, Box 1636, Dewey, Arizona 86327,
3 Institute for Isotope and Surface Chemistry,
P.O. Box 77, H-1525 Budapest, Hungary,
4 U.S. Geological Survey, 345 Middlefield Road MS 937,
Menlo Park, CA 94025,
5 University of California, Los Angeles, ICP-MS Facility,
Los Angeles, CA 90095

Abstract

We have uncovered a thin layer of magnetic grains and
microspherules, carbon spherules, and glass-like carbon at
nine sites across North America, a site in Belgium, and
throughout the rims of 16 Carolina Bays.
It is consistent with the ejecta layer from an impact event and
has been dated to 12.9 ka BP coinciding with the onset of
Younger Dryas (YD) cooling and widespread megafaunal
extinctions in North America.
At many locations the impact layer is directly below a black mat
marking the sudden disappearance of the megafauna and Clovis
people.
The distribution pattern of the Younger Dryas boundary (YDB)
ejecta layer is consistent with an impact near the Great Lakes
that deposited terrestrial-like ejecta near the impact site and
unusual, titanium-rich projectile-like ejecta further away.
High water content associated with the ejecta, up to 28 at.%
hydrogen (H), suggests the impact occurred over the Laurentide
Ice Sheet.
YDB microspherules and magnetic grains are highly enriched in
TiO2.
Magnetic grains from several sites are enriched in iridium (Ir), up
to 117 ppb.
The TiO2/FeO, K/Th, TiO2/Zr, Al2O3/FeO+MgO, CaO/Al2O3,
REE/chondrite, FeO/MnO ratios and SiO2, Na2O, K2O, Cr2O3,
Ni, Co, U, Th and other trace element abundances are inconsistent
with all terrestrial and extraterrestrial (ET) sources except for
KREEP, a lunar igneous rock rich in potassium (K), rare-earth
elements (REE), phosphorus (P), and other incompatible elements
including U and Th.
Normal Fe, Ti, and 238U/235U isotopic abundances were found
in the magnetic grains, but 234U was enriched over equilibrium
values by 50% in Murray Springs and by 130% in Belgium.
40K abundance is enriched by up to 100% in YDB sediments and
Clovis chert artifacts.
Highly vesicular carbon spherules containing nanodiamonds,
glass-like carbon, charcoal and soot found in large quantities in
the YDB layer are consistent with an impact followed by intense
burning.
Four holes in the Great Lakes, some deeper than Death Valley,
are proposed as possible craters produced by the airburst
breakup of a loosely aggregated projectile.

from Table 2:

CLOVIS SITES:
Blackwater Draw, NM----- 34.27564N 103.32633W
Chobot, AB, CAN--------- 52.99521N 114.71773W
Gainey, MI----------------- 42.93978N,, 83.72111W
Murray Springs, AZ --------31.57103N 110.17814W
Wally's Beach, AB--------- 49.34183N 113.15440W
Topper, SC -- T-1--------- 33.00554N,, 81.49001W
Topper, SC -- T-2--------- 33.00545N,, 81.49056W

CLOVIS-AGE SITES:
Daisy Cave, CA----------- 34.04207N 120.32009W
Lake Hind, MB, CAN----- 49.43970N 100.69783W
Lommel, BELGIUM------- 51.23580N,,,,, 5.26403E
Morley drumlin, AB-------- 51.14853N, 114.93546W

CAROLINA BAYS: (with paleosol beneath)
Blackville, SC -- T13------- 33.36120N 81.30440W
Myrtle Beach, SC -- M31-- 33.83776N 78.69565W
Lk Mattamuskeet -- LM---- 35.51865N 76.267917W
Howard Bay, NC -- HB---- 34.81417N 78.84753W
[ http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/PP43A_10.pdf ] poster 1.07 MB

CAROLINA BAYS: (no paleosol reached)
Myrtle Beach, SC -- M33-- 33.81883N 78.74181W
Myrtle Beach, SC -- M24-- 33.83118N 78.72379W
Myrtle Beach, SC -- M32-- 33.84034N 78.70906W
Salters Lake, NC -- B14--- 34.70992N 78.62043W
Lumberton, NC -- L33----- 34.75566N 79.10870W
Lumberton, NC -- L28----- 34.77766N 79.05008W
Lumberton, NC -- L31----- 34.78117N 79.04774W
Lumberton, NC -- L32----- 34.79324N 79.01871W
Moore Cty, NC -- MC1--- 35.30104N 78. 84753W
Sewell, NC -- FS3--------- 34.95800N 78.70280W
Lake Phelps -- LP---------- 35.78412N 76.434383W

I looked all these up with Google Earth and Maps.
In many cases, many craters overlap complexly, so it
is not clear which is the one studied.
It is always easy to find many more in each cluster.


http://journalofcosmology.com/Extinction105.html  20 pages
Firestone, R. B., 2009,
The Case for the Younger Dryas Extraterrestrial Impact Event:
Mammoth, Megafauna, and Clovis Extinction, 12,900 Years Ago.
Journal of Cosmology. vol. 2, pp. 256-285. 67 references

Abstract

The onset of >1000 years of Younger Dryas cooling, broad-scale
extinctions, and the disappearance of the Clovis culture in North
America simultaneously occurred 12,900 years ago followed
immediately by the appearance of a carbon-rich black layer at
many locations.
In situ bones of extinct megafauna and Clovis tools occur only
beneath this black layer and not within or above it.
At the base of the black mat at 9 Clovis-age sites in North
America and a site in Belgium numerous extraterrestrial impact
markers were found including magnetic grains highly enriched in
iridium, magnetic microspherules, vesicular carbon spherules
enriched in cubic, hexagonal, and n-type nanodiamonds,
glass-like carbon containing Fullerenes and nanodiamonds,
charcoal, soot, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.
The same impact markers were found mixed throughout the
sediments of 15 Carolina Bays, elliptical depressions along the
Atlantic coast, whose parallel major axes point towards either
the Great Lakes or Hudson Bay. The magnetic grains and
spherules have an unusual Fe/Ti composition similar to lunar
Procellarum KREEP Terrane and the organic constituents are
enriched in 14C leading to radiocarbon dates often well into
the future.
These characteristics are inconsistent with known meteorites
and suggest that the impact was by a previous unobserved,
possibly extrasolar body.
The concentration of impact markers peaks near the Great Lakes
and their unusually high water content suggests that a 4.6 km-wide
comet fragmented and exploded over the Laurentide Ice Sheet
creating numerous craters that now persist at the bottom of the
Great Lakes.
The coincidence of this impact, the onset of Younger Dryas
cooling, extinction of the megafauna, and the appearance of a
black mat strongly suggests that all these events are directly
related.
These results have unleashed an avalanche of controversy
which I will address in this paper.

Keywords: Younger Dryas, Extinctions, Extraterrestrial Impacts,
Black Mat, Clovis, Mammoth, Megafauna

"West also investigated sediment from 15 Carolina Bays,
elliptical depressions found along the Atlantic coast from
New England to Florida (Eyton and Parkhurst, 1975),
whose parallel major axes point towards either the
Great Lakes or Hudson Bay as seen in Fig. 3.
Similar bays have tentatively been identified in Texas,
New Mexico, Kansas, and Nebraska (Kuzilla, 1988)
although they are far less common in this region.
Their major axes also point towards the Great Lakes.
The formation of the Carolina Bays was originally ascribed
to meteor impacts (Melton and Schriever, 1933) but when
no meteorites were found they were variously ascribed
to marine, eolian, or other terrestrial processes.

West found abundant microspherules, carbon spherules,
glass-like carbon, charcoal, Fullerenes, and soot throughout
the Carolina Bays but not beneath them as shown in Fig. 4.
Outside of the Bays these markers were only found only
in the YDB layer as in other Clovis-age sites."

"Figure 3. The Carolina Bays are >>500,000 elliptical,
shallow lakes, wetlands, and depressions, up to >>10 km long,
with parallel major axes (see inset) pointing toward the
Great Lakes or Hudson Bay.
Similar features found in fewer numbers in the plains states
also point towards the Great Lakes.
These bays were not apparent topographical features
until the advent of aerial photography."

This figure shows nice color LIDAR typographic images
of 8 craters, 0.5 to 4 km wide.
  I used Ctr + in Windows Vista to expand the NA map, counting
18 elliiptical craters in the Great Plains:
Texas 4
New Mexico 3
Colorado 2
Kansas 4
Nebraska 5.

It's not easy to locate the LIDAR craters on the photo images
of Google Maps and Earth, but I've had a lot of practice with
these states and all over Earth this year, including brief visits to
many craters in New Mexico and Kauai.
I managed to find Salt Lake, NM, and Coyote Lake, TX.
The features are often complex enough to make assigning a
size fairly arbitrary.

Nice maps and typo maps and tourist info are available free on:
www.trails.com
www.goingoutside.com

Salt Lake, New Mexico 34.079932 -103.089600,
1.177 km lowest crater elevation, NEE axis, EES rim el 1.215,
N edge el 1.183, ~10x3.7, E from center 7 km to Texas and
18 km to Coyote Lake (another LIDAR image), much white
deposits,  N of Rd 235ew,  just S of Rd 88 S Roosevelt Road 10,
24 km E of 206ns, 26 km EES of Portales, striking "comb" of
many parallel ditches running into lake from E side

Little Salt Lake is 7 km W of center,  el 1.183, 3.6 wide, E comb,
very similar and obviously connected

Coyote Lake, Texas 34.102105 -102.872902 1.162 site N 1.200
15 km SW of Muleshoe, size 5.7x4.3, E comb, W of Rd 214 ns

Baileyboro Lake 34.0045 -102.8206 1.155 site SW 1.186
no comb, size 2

Upper White Lake 33.9426 -102.7678 1.129 site W 1.171
S,E comb, size 1.8,  2 km W of Rd 214ns

just 1 km NE is a double crater, 1.129 site W 1.169,
S,E comb, 1.6x1.3, just W of Rd 214ns

then just N is Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge, same size,
with a .24 wide flat round dark crater 1.667 site W 1.170

just E across Rt 214ns is Upper Pauls Lake, complex 2 km size,
1.129 site W 1.147

33.860831 -101.449100 1.038 site W 1.125
NNE 15x8, 29 km SSE of craters by Rd 214ns,
10 km W of Rd 385ns, 15 km SW of Littlefield on Rd 84nwse,
comb on whole E side

Returning to New Mexico, Lane Salt Lake, similar to Salt Lake
33.465718 -103.608318 1.265 site 1.300 size 10x4 NE
90 km SW of Salt Lake, E comb

34.038716 -103.350290, el 1.266, site about 1.269, .16 wide,
W of 206ns, just S of S Roosevelt Rd 15, dark

34.026073 -103.399379 1.278 site 1.283 size .76,
extends to SW

34.026338 -103.437950 1.279 site 1.287,
cut by Rd 235ew size 1.5

WSNM 32.755610 -106.413363 1.186 site S 1.210 68x33 km
White Sands National Monument, gypsum sand


Howard Bay, NC -- HB---- 34.81417 -78.84753
[ Wet center marked in blue on Google Maps Terrain,
named Pages Lake .7x.2, with Mines Creek NW to SE
at both ends, but built over on Google Earth,
34.815274 -783014 .030 is lowest point,
just SW of Rd 87,  is 13.7 km W of Marshy Bay,
which is NW of Bladen Lakes State Forest.
site W .044 N .044 E creek .010  S .043 all at 1.3 radius,
Rd 87 cuts NW across NE half, farms completely hide crater,
steep bare brown red rise to NWSE ridge from .030 to .044
from .090 to 1.17 radius must be NE rim.
Many local farm roads provide convenient access
across crater interior. ]

[ http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/PP43A_10.pdf ] poster 1.07 MB

R. Kobres 1,
G. A. Howard 2 ( george@... ),
A.West  3 ,
R. B. Firestone 4,
J. P. Kennett 5,
D. Kimbel 2,
W. Newell 2
1 U. of Georgia, Athens, GA, 30602,
2 Restoration Systems, L.L.C., Raleigh, NC 27604,
3 GeoScience Consulting, Dewey, Arizona 86327,
4 Lawrence Berkeley National Lab Berkeley, CA 94720,
5 Dept. of Earth Sciences, U. of California, Santa Barbara, CA 93106.

B23A-0948
Surface Vertical Exaggeration = 7x
Scale: 250 meters
Bay is 2.6 km long

The Carolina Bays are a group of up to 500,000 lakes and
wetlands stretching from Florida to New Jersey
along the Atlantic Ocean.
They are up to11 km in length and about 15 meters in depth.
The elliptical shapes, overlapping rims (Fig.1, left), and common
orientation towards the Great Lakes region have generated many
hypotheses about how the Bays formed.
Extraterrestrial Impact.
This hypothesis was developed by Melton and Schriever (1933)
and expanded by Prouty, (1934) and Eyton and Parkhurst(1970),
who proposed that a meteorite or comet exploded above the
Great Lakes, producing no primary crater.
The secondary fragments and/orshock wave from that blast
formed rough, shallow craters on the Atlantic Coast, and,
over time, wind and water altered those craters to form the
Carolina Bays.
The Impact Hypothesis accounts fo rthe orientation of Bays,
overlapping raised rims, and the fact  that they do not appear
to be forming today.
However, there are problems:
(a) reported Bay ages vary by tens of thousands of years; and
(b) no one has found impact material in the Bays, such as
shocked quartz or other ET markers.
Wind-and-Water.
This hypothesis was offered in various versions
first by Raisz (1934) and others, whosuggested that wind
created deflation basins or parabolic dunes, which later
filled to become lakes that evolved into Carolina Bays.
Johnson (1942) proposed that springs or groundwater
dissolution of soluble minerals caused subsidence, which formed
water-filled depressions that became the Bays.
Kaczorowski (1976) formulated what has become one of the
prevailing views, suggesting that strong ice-age winds blew
across irregular lakes, generating powerful eddy-currents.
Those currents gradually reshaped the lakes into oriented,
elliptical Carolina Bays, whose long axes were perpendicular
to the prevailing wind direction.
The rims were built from wind-transported sand that
accumulated from the dry lake beds during droughts.
While this overall hypothesis clarifies many Bay features,
it has several key weaknesses.
The theory can not explain:
(a)how wind and water could create up to four layers of
stacked Bays with overlapping Bay rims, as seen in Fig.1; and
(b) why modern severe wind and water action, such as occurs
during hurricanes, does not produce or reshape Bays
on the Coastal Plain today.
Objective:
Because of the above questions, the Bay controversy has
remained unresolved for more than 80 years.
In this investigation, we tested these various hypotheses by
examining Howard Bay, which is located about 2km north of
the town of Duartin, Bladen County, North Carolina.
RESULTS
Nine suites of samples were extracted along the 2.6-km long axis
of Howard Bay using a combination of trenching and coring with
an AMS Soil Core Sampler.
Maximum depths varied from about 2 to10 meters.
ET Markers.
Analysis of the samples reveals an assemblage of abundant
carbon spherules (Fig.2), magneticgrains, microspherules,
glass-like carbon, and iridium, typical of the12.9-ka YDB
impact layer found at many other non-bay sites
across North America.
The impact layer conforms to the bottom of the basin
(dark blue on the core symbols), suggesting that the markers
began to be deposited immediately or soon after the Bay formed.
Fig.3 shows the results from Core #11 near the center of
Howard Bay, where carbon spherules are found from
nearly the surface down to about 7.5 meters deep.
Glass-like carbon abundances (not shown) followed
a similar pattern.
Iridium (15 ppb) was found at the lowest level of the basin.
Silt and Clay.
Trenching shows that theBay is filled with >6m of cross-bedded
eolian sand (Fig.4) with no evidence of lacustrine sedimentation.
As a further test, sediment from Core #11 was analyzed with
Standard ASTM sieves, and the results are shown in Fig.3.
The top1 meter averaged about 14% silt and clay, and from
about 1 to 9 meters, there is 0.3% to 6% silt and clay,
values consistent with eolian deposition.
There is typically less than a few percent of any particles
larger than medium sand.
DISCUSSION
Analysis reveals that, unlike typical, peat-rich Carolina Bays,
Howard Bay essentially lacks peat, diatoms, pollen, and other
organic materials, and it also lacks substantial silt and clay.
That suggests this Bay never held water for a sustained
length of time.
Furthermore, the presence of extensive eolian sand calls
into question prevailing hypotheses
(a) that all Bays were lakes and ponds in the past and that
their shapes were formed by wave action, and
(b) that ground water movement led to subsidence that
formed the Bay.
In addition, the presence of impact markers, including high
concentrations of iridium in a layer just above the basal
sediments of this Bay, supports the impact hypothesis
for Bay formation.
The age of Howard Bay appears consistent with and
not older than the YD impact event;
however, our research did not address the reported anomalous
ages of other Bays, a question which remains unresolved.
REFERENCES
1. Melton, F.A. & Scriever, W. (1933) J. Geol. 41, 52-56.
2. Prouty, W.F. (1952) Bulletin of the GSA, Vol. 63, 167-224..
3. Eyton, J.R. & J.I. Parkhurst (1975)
Dept. of Geography Paper No. 9, U. of Illinois.
4. Raisz, (1934) J. Geol., Vol. 42:839-848
5. Johnson, D.W. (1942) The Origin of the Carolina Bays.
Columbia University Press, New York.
6. Kaczorowski, R.T. (1976) The Carolina Bays:
a comparison with modern oriented lakes,
PhD thesis, University of South Carolina, Columbia.
Base image courtesy of James M. Salmons,
President, GeoDataCorp.,
104 E Horton St., Zebulon, NC 27597,
919-269-5744 www.GeoDataMapping.com ]

[ Fig. 1 is a LIDAR elevation image of Marshy Bay,
Google Maps and Earth give fine natural color view,
resolution .001 km, size 3.3x1.8 km, el .033 km,
4 km E of Cedar Creek Road ns,  Rd 53ns,
30 km E of Hwy 95ns, 40 km SE of Fayetteville,
NW of or part of  Bladen Lakes State Forest,
90 km NW of the coast at Wilmington ]
with Little Singletary Lake [ North Carolina 28399 ]
and Horseshoe Lake
to the lower L and lower R,  all oriented NW. ]


One side in the debate has conceded a major point to their critics,
while presenting more evidence for many other major points.

AGU Fall Meeting 2009
ID# PP31D-1389
Location: Poster Hall (Moscone South)
Time of Presentation: Dec 16 8:00 AM - 12:20 PM

The platinum group metals in Younger Dryas Horizons
are terrestrial
Y. Wu 1; E. Wikes 1; J. Kennett 2; A. West 3; M. Sharma 1
1. Dept of Earth Sciences, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
2. Department of Earth Sciences,
University of California, Santa Barbara, CA, USA.
3. GeoScience Consulting, Dewey, AZ, USA.

The Younger Dryas (YD) event, which began 12,900 years ago,
was a period of abrupt and rapid cooling in the
Northern Hemisphere whose primary cause remains unclear.
The prevalent postulated mechanism is a temporary shutdown
of the thermohaline circulation following the breakup of an ice
dam in North America.
Firestone et al. (2007) proposed that the cooling was triggered
by multiple cometary airbursts and/or impacts that engendered
enormous environmental changes and disrupted the thermohaline
circulation.
The evidence in support for this hypothesis is a black layer in
North America and in Europe marking the YD boundary
containing charcoal, soot, carbon spherules and glass-like carbon
suggesting extensive and intense forest fires.
This layer is also enriched in magnetic grains high in iridium,
magnetic microspherules, fullerenes containing extraterrestrial
He-3, and nanodiamonds.
Whereas the nanodiamonds could be produced in an impact or
arrive with the impactor, the cometary burst/impact hypothesis
remains highly controversial as the YD horizon lacks important
impact markers such as craters, breccias, tektites and
shocked minerals.
Firestone et al. (2007) contend that bulk of Ir found at the YD
boundary is associated with magnetic grains.
The key issue is whether this Ir is meteorite derived.
We used Ir and Os concentrations and Os isotopes to
investigate the provenance of the platinum group metals in the
YD horizon.
The bulk sediment samples from a number of North American
YD sites (Blackwater Draw, Murray Springs, Gainey,
Sheriden Cave, and Myrtle Beach) and a site in Europe (Lommel)
do not show any traces of meteorite derived Os and Ir.
The [Os] = 2 to 45 pg/g in these sediments and the 187Os/188Os
ratios are similar to the upper continental crustal values (~1.3),
much higher than those in meteorites (0.13).
Higher [Os] is observed in Blackwater Draw (= 194 pg/g).
However, the Os/Ir ratio in Blackwater Draw is 5
(not 1 as expected for a meteorite) and
187Os/188Os ratio = 1.35, which remains constant above and
below the YD horizon.
Kennett et al. (2009) report 200 ppb of nanodiamonds and
about 4 ppb of Ir in bulk sediments from Murray Springs.
Since chondritic meteorites contain approximately 400 ppm
of presolar nanodiamonds and about 500 ppb of osmium,
simple mixing requires that the YD horizon at Murray Springs
should contain about 250 pg/g of Os.
However, the observed Os concentration of YD horizon at
Murray Springs is only 45 pg/g and the 187Os/188Os ratio is 1.66.
These observations suggest that if there was an impact that
produced the nanodiamonds and dispersed them,
it did not provide Os (and Ir) to the Murray Springs and other
North American sites.
We have so far separated and analyzed magnetic grains from
Gainey and Lommel and find their [Os] and 187Os/188Os
ratios consistent with a terrestrial origin.
The [Os] of microspherules analyzed so far are too low to be
derived from meteorites.
Our analyses therefore do not support an extraterrestrial origin of
the platinum metals in YD horizons from North America and Europe.
Contact Information: Yingzhe Wu, Hanover, New Hampshire, USA 03755


AGU Fall Meeting 2009
ID# PP31D-1392
Location: Poster Hall (Moscone South)
Time of Presentation: Dec 16 8:00 AM - 12:20 PM

Nanodiamonds and Carbon Spherules from Tunguska, the K/T
Boundary, and the Younger Dryas Boundary Layer
J. H. Wittke 1; T. E. Bunch 1; A. West 2; J. Kennett 3;
D. J. Kennett 4; G. A. Howard 5
1. Dept. of Geology, Northern Arizona Univ., Flagstaff, AZ, USA.
2. GeoScience Consulting, Dewey, AZ, USA.
3. Dept. of Earth Science and Marine Science Institute,
Univ. of California, Santa Barbara, CA, USA.
4. Dept. of Anthropology, Univ. of Oregon, Eugene, OR, USA.
5. Restoration Systems, LLC, Raleigh, NC, USA.

More than a dozen markers, including nanodiamonds (NDs) and
carbon spherules (CS), occur in a sedimentary layer marking the
onset of the Younger Dryas (YD) cooling episode at ~12.9 ka.
This boundary layer, called the YDB, has been found at nearly
forty locations across North America, Europe, and Asia,
although not all markers are present at any given site.
Firestone et al. (2007) and Kennett et al. (2008, 2009)
proposed that these markers resulted from a cosmic
impact/airburst and impact-related biomass burning.
Here we report features common to the YDB event, the
Cretaceous-Tertiary (K/T) impact, and the Tunguska airburst
of 1908.
In sediments attributed to each event, we and other
researchers have recovered NDs either inside or closely
associated with CS, which appear to be the high-temperature
by-products of biomass burning.
CS range in diameter from about 500 nanometers to
4 millimeters with a mean of ~100 microns,
and they typically contain NDs, including lonsdaleite
(hexagonal diamonds), in the interior matrix and in the crust.
To date, CS and NDs have been found in the K/T layer
in the United States, Spain, and New Zealand.
Similarly, CS and NDs have been found in the YDB layer
in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, Belgium,
the Netherlands, Germany, and France.
Thus far, every site examined contains NDs and/or CS in the
K/T and YDB layers; conversely, we have yet to detect CS
associated with NDs in any non-YDB sediments tested.
Five allotropes of NDs have been identified in association with
CS: cubic diamonds, lonsdaleite, n-diamonds, p-diamonds,
and i-carbon, which are differentiated by slight variations
in their crystalline structure.
All allotropes have been identified using scanning electron
microscopy (SEM), high-resolution electron microscopy (HREM),
and transmission electron microscopy (TEM) with confirmation
by selected area diffraction (SAED).
Lonsdaleite is found on Earth only in three instances:
(1) in the laboratory, where it is produced by shock synthesis
under a high-temperature-high-pressure regime
(~1000°C to 1700°C at 15 GPa) or by carbon vapor deposition
(CVD) under a very-high-temperature-low-pressure regime
(~13,000°C at 300 Torr) (Maruyama et al., 1993);
(2) after arrival on Earth inside extraterrestrial material; and
(3) as a result of high-temperature cosmic impact/airbursts.
Lonsdaleite associated with CS has been found in sediments
only at the K/T, the YDB, and Tunguska, consistent with the
hypothesis that all three events have cosmic origins,
although the nature of the impactors may have been different.
Contact Information: James H. Wittke,
Flagstaff, Arizona, USA, 86011-4099


AGU Fall Meeting 2009
ID#  PP33B-08
Location: 2006 (Moscone West)
Time of Presentation: Dec 16 3:04 PM - 3:16 PM

Testing Younger Dryas ET Impact (YDB) Evidence
at Hall's Cave, Texas
T. W. Stafford 1; E. Lundelius 2; J. Kennett 3; D. J. Kennett 4;
A. West 5; W. S. Wolbach 6
1. Stafford Research, Inc., Lafayette, CO, USA.
2. Dept. of Geological Sciences, Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX, USA.
3. Dept. of Earth Science & Marine Science Institute,
Univ. of California, Santa Barbara, CA, USA.
4. Dept. of Anthropology, Univ. of Oregon, Eugene, OR, USA.
5. GeoScience Consulting, Dewey, AZ, USA.
6. Dept. of Chemistry, DePaul Univ., Chicago, IL, USA.

Hall's Cave, Kerrville County Texas, 167 km WSW of Austin,
provides a unique opportunity for testing the presence of a
chronostratigraphic datum (YDB layer) containing rare and
exotic proxies, including nanodiamonds, aciniform soot, and
magnetic spherules, the origins of which remain controversial,
but possibly derive from a cosmic impact ~12,900 CAL BP.
The karst-collapse cave in Cretaceous limestone on the
Edwards Plateau contains ? 3.7 m of stratified clays grading to
clayey silts recording continuous deposition from 16 ka RC yr
to present.
The cave's small catchment area and mode of deposition were
constant, and the stratigraphy is well dated based on 162
AMS 14C dates from individual vertebrate fossils, snails,
charcoal, and sediment chemical fractions.
The cave sequence contains an abundant small animal vertebrate
fossil record, exhibiting biostratigraphic changes, and the timing
of the late Pleistocene megafaunal extinction is consistent with
that elsewhere in North America.
At 151 cm below datum is the extremely sharp, smooth contact
separating lower, dusky red (2.5YR3/2) clays below from
overlying dark reddish brown (5YR3/3) clays (forming a
20-cm-thick dark layer) and dating to 13,000 CAL BP,
at or close to the age of the YDB datum elsewhere.
This appears to be the most distinctive lithologic change of the
deglacial sequence.
Sediments at or within 10 cm of this contact contain the local
extinction of 4 species of bats, the local extinction of the prairie dog
(Cynomys sp.) and perhaps other burrowing mammals in response
to decrease in soil thickness, and the uppermost occurrence of 6
late Pleistocene megafaunal taxa that, although rare in the cave,
do not extend younger than 12.9 ka.
We collected and analyzed sediments at high resolution above
and below the distinct lithologic contact at 151 cm.
The red clays from 151 to 153 cm and immediately preceding the
lithologic contact contain an abundance of nanodiamonds
(5 different allotropes), aciniform soot at 2400 ppm, magnetic
spherules, and carbon spherules, all of which we interpret as
evidence for a unique chronostratigraphic marker (YDB)
in the Western Hemisphere.
Because the age of this horizon is ~ 13,000 CAL BP, we
interpret the age of the event as the beginning of the
Younger Dryas cooling.
Regional soil erosion began ~15,000 CAL BP and continued
until 7000 CAL BP, but dating suggests that there is no
discontinuity or hiatus in deposition, and thus, the exotic materials
in that layer are not considered to be erosional accumulations.
Future analyses include sub-centimeter sampling over the
YD boundary, quantification of nanodiamonds and other
event-proxies within 1000 yr of the boundary and in sediments
several 1000 years older and younger, continued refinement of
the AMS 14C record to determine within 50 yr the location of
12,900 CAL BP datum and high resolution analysis
of small animal biostratigraphy.
Contact Information: Thomas W. Stafford,
Lafayette, Colorado 80026

[ 30.135347 -99.537902 M. Jennifer Cooke et al, 2003 Oct,
study of Hall's Cave, 4 p ]
www.geo.utexas.edu/faculty/banner/Publications/Halls_Cave_Geology_03.pdf


For most of these craters, white minerals are striking.
Analysis of elements and isotopes should prove any evidence
of ET origin, and indicate temperatures and pressures
of deposition onto target rocks from steam explosions
of  ice comet fragments.

The shared level of minimal erosion indicates
a shared early Holocene origin.

Amateurs should be encouraged to contribute observations
and samples.

Scientists can organize a center for analyzing samples at a
modest profit, while freely sharing data and research.

Websites, online journals, videos, magazines, books, and
movies can generate reasonable profits in the service of science.

The emerging insights into a past universal truama will lead
to a  increased shared sense of community in our human family.

It is necessary to assess any future risks.

nanodiamond evidence for 12,900 BP Clovis extinction impact,
Santa Rosa Island, discussion on Scientific American website,
Carolina Bay type craters east of Las Vegas, NM:
Rich Murray 2009.09.15
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.htm
Friday, July 24, 2009
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/28

widespread Carolina Bay type craters from Clovis comet
12,900 Ya BP? -- 0.7 M long NS crater with fractured
red sandstone on SW rim, CR C 53A, 20 miles E of
Las Vegas, NM: Rich Murray 2009.06.08
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.htm
Monday, June 8, 2009
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/27

For Google Earth, here are the Windows/Linux keyboard
commands that make it easy to "fly" easily,
creating an intuitive 3D grasp of the landscape -- my laptop
runs at 1 GHZ with a graphics card, Windows Vista, Chrome,
and 3 GB RAM:

Full screen mode: F11
Lat/Long grid: Ctrl L
Slow movement down: add Alt before other keys
Zoom in, out: PgUp, PgDn keys
Move left, right, forward, back: arrow keys
Tilt view up, down: Shift down arrow, up arrow
Rotate view in circle clockwise, counterclockwise:
Shift right arrow, left arrow
Tilt up towards horizon, down towards directly below:
Shift down arrow, up arrow
Stop, start movement: space bar
Look in any direction: Ctrl, left mouse button and drag
New placemark: Ctrl Shift P
To delete or rewrite a placemark title,
right click it and select Properties.
Reset view to north as forward:  n
Reset tilt to top-down view: u
Select Tools to select Web to return to your other screens.

It's easy to look down about 45 degrees while moving straight
ahead in any direction at an eye elevation of 1-200 km,
scanning a straight strip half-way around the world,
stopping to placemark, examine, and measure any features.

http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/java/

Requirements: a 3D video card with updated drivers is necessary.
World Wind has been tested on Nvidia, ATI/AMD, and Intel
platforms using Windows, MacOS 10.4, and Fedora Core 6.

WW gives exact altitudes and ocean depths.
WW images omit human features and give good resolution
from above 30 km.

http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/graphics/keychart.jpg

Keyboard controls:
Pan: arrow keys
Rotate LR: A,D keys
Tilt forward down, back up: W,S keys
Zoom down, up: 7 or Home, 1 or End
Stop: space bar or 5.
Position info: F10
Crosshairs: F9
Boundaries: F5
Placenames: F6
Lat/Long Lines: F7
Planet Axis: F8
Dynamic Layers: F1
_____________________________________________________


Rich Murray, MA
Boston University Graduate School 1967 psychology,
BS MIT 1964, history and physics,
1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505
505-501-2298  rmforall@...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/messages

http://RMForAll.blogspot.com new primary archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
group with 142 members, 1,588 posts in a public archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartame/messages
group with 1204 members, 23,955 posts in a public archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rmforall/messages

participant, Santa Fe Complex www.sfcomplex.org
_____________________________________________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#22564 From: Richard Kowalski <kowalski@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:57 pm
Subject: Tucson TV Viewers - Wavelengths on KUAT
mpmlowner
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello All,

For those of you who live in the Tucson area, I'd like to draw your attention to
the new episode of Wavelengths, airing Sunday at 630pm on KUAT

This episode will be about astronomy and will have a number of segments. Of
potential interest will be the segment on the Catalina Sky Survey

I believe other PBS stations in Arizona carry the program, so check your local
listings.

For more information and all the local air dates and times, see the program's
home page

http://originals.azpm.org/wavelengths/



--
Richard Kowalski
Catalina Sky Survey
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ  85721

#22563 From: "Gustavo Muler" <gustavomuler@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:36 am
Subject: animation 11-11-2009 of Herschel Space Observatory (Spacecraft)
gustavo_muler
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
#22562 From: "andrew_j_walker" <Andrew.Walker@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:00 am
Subject: Re: {MPML} 1960 SX = 2009 SV35
andrew_j_walker
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In mpml@yahoogroups.com, "Reiner M. Stoss" <rstoss@...> wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
> > It's nice to see this was in the just issued DOU, it was the oldest
> > single opposition Jupiter trojan by a long way, now the oldest
> > are a number of 1995 designations.
>
> Yes, but it wasn't discovered at all in the 60ies and neither
> in the course of the original Palomar-Leiden Survey.
>
> It was discovered in November 2007 by L. D. Schmadel and myself
> at ARI-Heidelberg, while re-reducing and re-blinking scanned images
> of the PLS plates.
> It was reported along with another 20 or so unidentified movers
> from some of the plates to the MPC on 2007 11 19.
>
> One of the four stations that observed it again in September and
> October this year (aka K09S35V) was J75 LSSS. As we do check all
> unidentified movers at J75 visually, it is very likely that I have seen
> it myself two months ago (two years after the discovery at ARI),
> without knowing it is 1960 SX of course.
>
> It illustrates nicely how the game is played nowadays. For the observers
> all these asteroids on the images are just movers. It is MPC then who links
> the gazillions of unidentified movers and tells what is what. A task that
> is mostly underestimated I think.
>
> R.
>
Thanks for the extra info on this Reiner! I was just going on the
observation dates.
With a bit of googling I found it was on the 2nd December 2007
DOU with 11 other 1960 designations.

#22561 From: Richard Kowalski <kowalski@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:41 pm
Subject: National Geographic Channel - Naked Science: Countdown to Impact
mpmlowner
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello all,

I just got word from the producers that we have a date for the premier of the
program,
Naked Science: Countdown to Impact

The hour long program about the discovery of 2008 TC3, the prediction of it's
impact in northern Sudan and the subsequent recovery of it's meteorite fragments
will first air on Thursday, December 3rd at 8pm EST on the National Geographic
Channel.


http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview


--
Richard Kowalski
Catalina Sky Survey
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ  85721

#22560 From: "RICHARD MILES" <rmiles.btee@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [comets-ml] Incoming Activity of comet 107P/Wilson-Harrington?
gallileo99uk
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Giovanni,

Some meteorites and presumably asteroids contain a significant proportion of
hydrated minerals.  Energetic particles from a solar flare would dissociate
the water of hydration liberating it to form a temporary ion tail.

Following my suggestion, today I checked the database at:
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/STP/SOLAR_DATA/SOLAR_FLARES/HALPHA_FLARES/earlierdata/op\
t1949
which contains the worldwide H-alpha solar flare records for 1949.

Comet 107P was discovered on an image taken on 1949 November 19.  Turns out
that the second-most active series of solar flares during the entire year
took place on Nov 18-19 !!
(The most active day for flares was on August 5).

I rest my case.
Richard Miles

----- Original Message -----
From: <gvnn64@...>
To: "comets-ml" <comets-ml@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [comets-ml] Incoming Activity of comet 107P/Wilson-Harrington?


> Dear Richard and all.
>
>>  My
>> interpretation of the bluish ion tail in 1949 was that it was caused by a
>> particularly energetic solar flare which sputtered material off of the
>> asteroids surface and not that it was volatile material finding its way
>> from
>> within the nucleus.
>
> In the few instances where asteroidal object have shown discontinuous
> signs of cometary activity (e.g. the so called "main belt comets"), dust
> and not gases were considered to be responsable of the observed tails. All
> the evidences rules out the presence of ion tails...
>
> Some interesting readings:
> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009MNRAS.399L..79P
> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009DPS....41.2003J
> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009AJ....137.4313J
> ect.
>
> With kind regards,
> Giovanni Sostero

#22559 From: "Reiner M. Stoss" <rstoss@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:05 am
Subject: Re: {MPML} 1960 SX = 2009 SV35
rms1kpde
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Andrew,

> It's nice to see this was in the just issued DOU, it was the oldest
> single opposition Jupiter trojan by a long way, now the oldest
> are a number of 1995 designations.

Yes, but it wasn't discovered at all in the 60ies and neither
in the course of the original Palomar-Leiden Survey.

It was discovered in November 2007 by L. D. Schmadel and myself
at ARI-Heidelberg, while re-reducing and re-blinking scanned images
of the PLS plates.
It was reported along with another 20 or so unidentified movers
from some of the plates to the MPC on 2007 11 19.

One of the four stations that observed it again in September and
October this year (aka K09S35V) was J75 LSSS. As we do check all
unidentified movers at J75 visually, it is very likely that I have seen
it myself two months ago (two years after the discovery at ARI),
without knowing it is 1960 SX of course.

It illustrates nicely how the game is played nowadays. For the observers
all these asteroids on the images are just movers. It is MPC then who links
the gazillions of unidentified movers and tells what is what. A task that
is mostly underestimated I think.

R.

#22558 From: "andrew_j_walker" <Andrew.Walker@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:40 am
Subject: 1960 SX
andrew_j_walker
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
It's nice to see this was in the just issued DOU, it was the oldest
single opposition Jupiter trojan by a long way, now the oldest
are a number of 1995 designations.

Andrew

#22557 From: "RICHARD MILES" <rmiles.btee@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:13 pm
Subject: Re: [comets-ml] Incoming Activity of comet 107P/Wilson-Harrington?
gallileo99uk
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Ignacio,

Thanks for alerting the comet community.  I agree that during the next few
weeks it is worth monitoring this asteroid (4105) for activity.  My
interpretation of the bluish ion tail in 1949 was that it was caused by a
particularly energetic solar flare which sputtered material off of the
asteroids surface and not that it was volatile material finding its way from
within the nucleus.  I have already started observations of (4015).  Here's
an extract of a report made on November 04:

>> A tracked and stacked set of 6 x 90 sec images taken with the B filter in
>> a dark sky on the 2.0-m Faulkes Telescope South on 2009 November 04 at
>> 10:19UT of 'Comet 107P' at a solar elongation of 80 deg two weeks past
>> perihelion shows no evidence of cometary activity.  Likewise for a single
>> R-filter image.  (R.Miles) <<

Just to illustrate the point that this is a particularly favourable
perihelic return of the 'comet', here are the approx. distances from the
Earth at each of its perihelic returns since first discovered:

Year    Delta
1949  0.20 AU
1954  1.8 AU
1958  1.8 AU
1962  0.5 AU
1966  1.1 AU
1971  2.0 AU
1975  1.3 AU
1979  0.15 AU
1984  1.7 AU
1988  1.8 AU
1992  0.50 AU
1997  1.2 AU
2001  2.0 AU
2005  1.1 AU
2009  0.38 AU

BTW:  Concerning its brightness, I think you are over-estimating this.  My
photometry using 7 CMC-14 reference stars on Nov 4 10:09 UT gave R=17.01 +/-
0.05.  The V magnitude predicted by JPL Horizons for this epoch is 16.71 and
that it will be brightest at V=16.37 on November 27.

Richard Miles
British Astronomical Association

----- Original Message -----
From: "iferrinv" <ferrin@...>
To: <comets-ml@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:25 PM
Subject: [comets-ml] Incoming Activity of comet 107P/Wilson-Harrington?


Hello all:
107P/Wilson-Harrington is a comet-asteroid transition object that
exhibited activity on one single night in 1949, and has remained
inactive since.  The activity was recorded in two Palomar Observatory
plates.  The red plate did not show activity, while the blue plate
exhibited a faint tail.  This prompted Yanga Fernandez et al. to
conclude that the comet had an ion tail.   The interesting thing
is that the activity took place 41 days after perihelion.   Well,
the comet has just passed perihelion and 41 days will take place
next December 4th, 3 WEEKS FROM NOW!  The present email is to
alert you of the possibility of a new outburst of this object
next month, and to request your help in securing observations to
confirm or deny its activity.  The comet was recovered by Sostero
et al. last year.  Currently is at magnitude 14-15 and will be
magnitude 13-14 in December so it is within reach of small
telescopes in the morning sky just before sunrise. If the
comet does not show activity then we can declare it dead, and
by itself this is an important result.  So please make an effort
to make CCD observations of this object in V, R or without filter,
and let me know about your work sending me an email at
ferrin@....    You can see the light curve of this object in
the "Atlas of Secular Light Curves of Comets",

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0909/0909.3498.pdf

Additional information and the call for observations will be
posted in my web site

http://webdelprofesor.ula.ve/ciencias/ferrin

Clear skies to all.

Ignacio Ferrín,
Center for Fundamental Physics,
University of the Andes,
Mérida, Venezuela

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