The best place I've heard of is Guitar Center who sells them for $16.99.
  I've heard someone say that they will take $14 if you deal with them but
have not tried it myself.  I believe they will ship mail order anywhere.

Anyone hear of a better price?


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>Does anyone know where I can buy MD Data Discs for my MDM-X4MK2 Sony 4
>track? I've been searching the web but only find distributors for
>regular music mini discs.

check out www.minidiscnow.com and you can also check out
www.minidisco.com

I think minidiscnow has them the Sonys for $19 each.

Stephen Philips
Dark Duck Records
------->> http://www.dclink.com/darkduck


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Does anyone know where I can buy MD Data Discs for my MDM-X4MK2 Sony 4
track? I've been searching the web but only find distributors for
regular music mini discs.

Thanks!



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to this group. I recently purchased a Tascam 564 MD 4 track.I play guitar
primarily, but I have an Ensoniq SQ-1 that I dabble with as well.Can't wait to
get going.  It looks like so much to grasp, yet between this and some other
NG's I am learning a lot. Looking forward to creating some great stuff.....
Jerry


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Hi,
My name is Mark and I've just today purchased a sharp 702 and hope to eventually
get a minidisc 4 track recorder. Look forward to learning from you all. I play
guitar/harmonica in the country blues style.


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Hi everyone - I'm getting ready to purchase a Sony MD 4track for a radio
station, so down the road I may have a question or two for you... in the
meantime-  I've used MD's and Sony MD recorders for nearly 4years in
mobile DJ shows and have had less problems with them than regular cds.
In fact, many of my recordings are 4years old and after numerous plays
still track perfectly and sound a good as the first day I played them. A
couple of problems though...
WHY is there no space/pause button on the front of the JE510? Many of my
recordings of songs have intentionally tight segues (so if I want to
track through, I can). However, many times I use the pause button to
quickly stop at the end of a song without going into the next one.
Heaven forbid I should leave my remote at home or the batteries die,
especially if I've accidentally left the decks in pause mode.

Second problem- this seems to be a problem with the Memorex MD74 discs,
but I'm not sure... when I finish recording my last song on the disc and
lets say (for example) I have 1min, 24secs left, or 47secs left or
whatever... when I finish and hit stop, the time counter shows I may
have 3 & 1/2 minutes remaining on the disc. DON'T BE FOOLED. When I
tried to record another song, it somehow dubbed it over an existing
track (#4 for instance). This was very frustrating. A couple of my
Memorex discs still show over three minutes remaining, so to prevent me
from "screwing the pooch", in the disc name I had to write ***DISC
FULL***!!!

Anyone else had this problem? It doesn't seem to happen on other brands
of discs.

Thanks for letting me vent... otherwise, MD technology is FANTASTIC and
I hope manufacturers don't let it die on the vine.



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>Let's not forget the benifits of using a MD 2track machine for this purpose. I
>have even taken individual tracks and synced them (by way of using my
>counters start point of zero). With this method i can do various effects and
>stuff then put it back in the multitrack. I hope this makes sense.

>zamzam

I do a very similar thing.  I will record on 2 track MD and then run it
into the stereo sub in while mixing and recording to 2 other tracks,
etc.  It's quite effective and manages to make my MD4 more like an MD6.

Stephen Philips
Dark Duck Records
------->> http://www.dclink.com/darkduck





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Let's not forget the benifits of using a MD 2track machine for this purpose. I
have even taken individual tracks and synced them (by way of using my counters
start point of zero). With this method i can do various effects and stuff then
put it back in the multitrack. I hope this makes sense.

zamzam


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Yamaha MD4

So, here´s what I plan.

I lay down a basic guitar track (actually three guitars synchronized to a
click track then mixed down to one track.......anyway the end result is one
track of guitar/ three free tracks)

Now there´s a short flute solo in the middle of the song where I´d like to
overdub 3 flutes for
a bit of harmony/counterpoint.

It would be much easier to be able to pingpong just that bit of the song
and not the whole song.
This is because  might have to record the three voices in the rest of the
song -before- the flute and I don´t want to ping pong the voices.


I reckon I will have to divide the song, pingpong the divided song and then
rejoin it.

Will this work?
Is there an easier way? (apart from buying an MD8 (which I´d love to do)).

IJeremy Williams
Gandía, Valencia, Spain
WWW http://www.iponet.es/jwilliams
email   jwilliams@...



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The original MDM-X4 and the MDM-X4 Mk II are very similar.  The Mk II uses
a later version of ATRAC (the compression algorithm), Sony 4.5, which is
reported to be slightly better than 4.0 (which was already very good).
The Mk II also has some enhanced MIDI capabilities, and a little more
flexibility in some of the system settings.  By this time I would expect
that non-Mk II units are becoming scarce at retailers.

When you buy a Mk II you get a non-Mk II manual plus an addendum that covers
the Mk II changes.  That gives you an idea of how less-than-earthshaking
the differences are.

  - Roger


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This may be a Sony-only issue, in which case I apologize to all of the
non-Sony owners on the list.

On the MDM-X4 you can create a tempo map for a song that controls the
info sent out as the MIDI clock.  The manual strongly encourages you
to create the map *before* you record the song, since it is nearly impossible
to sync the map to the song after it is recorded.  Trouble is, the darn
thing doesn't seem to want to let me create a tempo map for a *new* song;
I have to record something first.  And I can't just record a brief bit, since
once you've recorded *any*thing you've defined the length of the song and
you can't extend it (other than by splicing, which is not a good solution).
I end up guessing how long the song will be, recording that much silence on
one track, and *then* going in and setting up the tempo map and beginning
the real recording process.  Am I just missing something here?

Do other units have something like a tempo map, and, if so, do they have
a similar problem?

Thanks.

  - Roger


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Hello all, my name is Alan Jones and I live in Abingdon near Oxford (UK) and
work as a Digital engineer for SSL.

I don't currently own a multitrack but am hoping to purchase in the near
future so any info I can gather will be very helpful.

Top of my list at the moment is the Sony MDMX4, what's the difference
between MKI & II?.

The Tascam 564 also look's nice with a digital out, but I believe it has
quite an early version of ATRAC code and is soon to be discontinued.

My equipment so far is;

Mackie 1402 VLZ
Tascam DA20
Alesis MidiVerb IV
Roland JV1080
Roland PC200 MKII keyboard

plus various guitars, drum pads, banjo and a euphonium.

Regards,

Alan.



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>Has anyone tried playing a disk recorded on, say a Tascam 564 on a Yamaha
>MD

I haven't done it but I would assume that since the formats are the same
and the recording process is essentially the same that it would work.
I've recorded regular 2 track MDs on my Yamaha MD4 and then listened to
them on my Sony 510 and they sound fine.  As long as you use a MD Data
in another MD Data machine it should work fine.

Stephen Philips
Dark Duck Records
------------>> http://www.dclink.com/darkduck


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I haven't done it myself, but one my partners has recorded discs on the MD4 and
then used them with the MD8.  He
hasn't mentioned that he has had any problems.  Haven't tried anything recorded
on a Tascam or Sony.

Fred

cmathews wrote:

> Do disks recorded with your md4 work on your md8?  Have you tried disks from a
Tascam or Sony box on either?
>
> Thanks!
>





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Has anyone tried playing a disk recorded on, say a Tascam 564 on a Yamaha MD4 or
MD8?


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I've been messing around with my Yamaha MD8 for a month now and just figured out
how to get 21 tracks out of an 8 track MD without going past the first
generation on any track.

I got an e-mail from Roger Scott about whether this method keeps any tracks from
going past the first generation (sorry, Roger, I accidentally deleted the e-mail
before replying <<damn fingers>>).  It *does* seem like each successive set of
bounces would degrade the tracks that have already been bounced by 1 generation,
but I don't think it does...

Assume you've recorded 1-8 and bounced them to 7 and 8, then filled up 1-6
again.  Tracks 1-6 now have original material and 7-8 have a first generation
bounce.  When you bounce 1-6 to 5 and 6, only those tracks are re-recorded -- in
other words, 7 and 8 don't go anywhere.  Since MTMDs can bounce "in place"
(i.e., tracks containing source material can end up recording a mix of that
source material), when you're doing your second pass of sub-mixes, your original
set of sub-mixes (which are on 7 and 8) simply sit there and don't get
re-recorded.  When you're done this set of bounces, you have the newly mixed
tracks 1-6 on 5 and 6 (now a first generation bounce) next to the original
bounce of 7 and 8 (still a first generation bounce), giving you a total of 14
tracks that haven't gone through more than one submix.  And so it goes...

Does this make sense or am *I* missing something?

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Ok, by way of introduction, my name is Fred Wheeler, and I am the
keyboardist for a group called Magellan (I use the name Amariah Hession
- yes, I know it's silly, but hell I've been doing it for 25 years.  Too
late to change now).  I also play keys and guitar and sing in a new band
called StrangeCloud.  I've been into 4-track recording since the late
70's, and into the portastudios since the mid-80's.  Currently, we use 2
Yamaha MD8s and a MD4.  Love them.  Great machines that are a vast
improvement over any of the tape-based recorders.  As for equipment we
use, well, it would take me a long time to sit down and provide a list,
but one of these days maybe I'll do that.

Fred

--
                                  Magellan
                       "The New Age of Rock"
                  http://www.magellanmusic.com




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On the MDM-X4, if you do operations such as cutting a segment out of
a song, or splicing two songs together, afterward there are lots of
restrictions on what you can do with that song.  Essentially all you can
do is play it back or copy it, so you almost always end up making a copy
right away and then deleting the original, compromised version.  Do all
MD machines have this characteristic?

I wish the Sony (at least) had a "Clean Song" operation that would do
the copy, swap the copy into the original's position, and then delete
the original.  Of course, if you're running out of space on your MD then
you're just hosed...

  - Roger


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I've been messing around with my Yamaha MD8 for a month now and just figured out
how to get 21 tracks out of an 8 track MD without going past the first
generation on any track.  This seems obvious to me now, but it wasn't when I got
the MD...

For a heavily produced power pop song (lots of layers of guitar and backing
vocals a la Mutt Lange):

(1) Record onto tracks 1-8.  I've been putting drums and percussion on first,
since it allows me to use multiple mics on the drums -- if I'm not bouncing, I
use 3 and mix to almost-mono, but this lets me mic everything and mix to stereo.
I compress the toms when recording (through the inserts on channels 1 and 2) --
toms go to tracks 3 and 4.  Snare and kick aren't compressed when recording --
they go to tracks 1 and 2.

(2)  Tracks 1-8 are internally bounced to tracks 7 and 8.  I make a backup mix
first and then let it rip.  When bouncing, I can compress the kick and snare if
I need to since they've been recorded to the tracks whose channels have the
inserts.

(3)  Tracks 1-6 now get guitars.  Since I had the track space, I could do that
Mutt Lange-style layering, with several guitars with slightly different sounds
playing the same part for a big wall of sound.

(4)  Tracks 1-6 are bounced to tracks 5 and 6.  Backed up first, though, just in
case!

(5)  Tracks 1-4 get backing vocals, again with doubles.  I cheated here and did
a couple of early sub-bounces to I could squeeze in a couple more tracks of BV.

(6)  Tracks 1-4 are bounced to tracks 3 and 4.

(7)  Bass goes onto track 2.

(8)  Lead vocal goes onto track 1.

When I mix, I now have pairs of each set of instruments, similar to assigning
them to four different busses -- drums and percussion on stereo pair 7 and 8,
guitars on stereo pair 5 and 6, backing vocals on stereo pair 3 and 4, bass on 2
and lead vocal on 1.  Easy to keep track of as long as I get the submixes right
when bouncing.

Since the MD8 doesn't limit you when bouncing as much as a cassette multitracker
does (since you can't mix a recorded track to the same track during a bounce),
this method gives you 21 tracks with no track less than a first generation
bounce.  Anyway, this wasn't immediately obvious to me since I was used to the
cassette method, where your earliest tracks tend to get mixed down multiple
generations...


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>Does anyone believe they have a low-priced source of >high-quality MD data
discs?

I get mine from Full Compass (www.fullcompass.com).  If you purchase in lots of
10, blank HHB data disks are $13.74 apiece.  Call 800-356-5844 and ask for Barb
Lager -- she's pretty good about calling you back quickly if she's not available
when you call, and she's always extremely helpful.

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TEST

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Hello fellow MDMT users;
I'm Zamzam and i am a percussionist with a band from Alabama called "THE SNAKE
DOCTORS"
you can check us out (4/98) at:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbaysing/gig.html

In my studio "Sonic Ma'at i do preproduction in the areas of Hip-Hop, R&B,
Spoken Word, Ballads. My own music consist of a hybrid style that is like a
cross between traditional poetics and jazz. I also create and sell beats and
loops to alot of hip-hop oriented studios.

My gear is as such:
*Mackie 1402vlz
*Sony mdm-x4
*RNC compressor
*DBX 163 compressor/limiter
*Lexicon mpx100 stereo effects processor
*Sony ES series dual recording cassette deck    w/dbx
*Sony je500 2trk. md recorder
*Sony mz-r30 md recorder (for recording in the  field)
*Peavey 15 band graphic eq
*100watt reference amp
*(4) Shure 58's
*(1) Shure 57
*(2) CAD-95 condensers
*Roland xp10 synth (the best drums)
*E-MU Emax2 Keyboard sampler w/zip drive
*Latin Percussion congas(3),misc.percussion
*Alesis HR-16 drum module
*Roland VT-1 voice transformer
*access to cd recorder, adat, analog synths., and musicians/songwriters
WHEW.


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Hello fellow MDMT users;
I'm Zamzam and i am a percussionist with a band from Alabama called "THE SNAKE
DOCTORS"
you can check us out (4/98) at:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbaysing/gig.html

In my studio "Sonic Ma'at i do preproduction in the areas of Hip-Hop, R&B,
Spoken Word, Ballads. My own music consist of a hybrid style that is like a
cross between traditional poetics and jazz. I also create and sell beats and
loops to alot of hip-hop oriented studios.

My gear is as such:
*Mackie 1402vlz
*Sony mdm-x4
*RNC compressor
*DBX 163 compressor/limiter
*Lexicon mpx100 stereo effects processor
*Sony ES series dual recording cassette deck    w/dbx
*Sony je500 2trk. md recorder
*Sony mz-r30 md recorder (for recording in the  field)
*Peavey 15 band graphic eq
*100watt reference amp
*(4) Shure 58's
*(1) Shure 57
*(2) CAD-95 condensers
*Roland xp10 synth (the best drums)
*E-MU Emax2 Keyboard sampler w/zip drive
*Latin Percussion congas(3),misc.percussion
*Alesis HR-16 drum module
*Roland VT-1 voice transformer
*access to cd recorder, adat, analog synths., and musicians/songwriters
WHEW.


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Does anyone believe they have a low-priced source of high-quality
MD data discs?  I payed $18, which seems like a lot.  I'm encouraging
the folks at MiniDisco (http://www.minidisco.com) to start carrying data
discs in addition to music discs.  Their music disk prices seem to be
pretty good (mail order only).

On a related topic, how much do you use music MDs for two-track recording
vs. data MDs for >2 track (or even 2-track) recording?  I've mostly used
my data discs, but For "casual" recording I've also used music MDs (although
not being able to record tempo maps on them is a pain).

  - Roger


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>I've had my MDM-X4 for a little over a month now.  It sounds great, and
>is really fun, but it is not perfect.  I'm sure a good bit of bandwidth
>on this list will devoted to disecting the weaknesses of the various
>units.

I also have an MDM-X4 Mk II which I got almost 2 months ago.  I love it.
I'm still amazed at the sound quality, compactness and price.

My major complaint about the MDM-X4 is when I mix 4 tracks down to 2
tracks.  I haven't figured out how to set the recording levels correctly.
I set the stereo mix level but when I start recording (mixing down), the
displayed level for the 2 channels I'm recording is different, much
higher
and often overloading the input.  Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?  Is
this
just a flaw in the design?

To work around this problem, I first copy the song.  I then start
recording and set my mix levels in the record mode.  Next, I erase the
scratch mix and make a new copy of the song.  Finaly, I make the real mix

using the levels I determined during the scratch mix down.  Effective,
but
very time consuming.

If any of you are interested, I have some MPEGS of my band available at:

http: //members.tripod.com/~the10planet

I should also have some free tapes available later this month.

Charles


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Hello, MTMD subscribers, and welcome.  How about if we all introduce
ourselves (and our gear, of course ;->).

I'm Roger Scott.  I live in a small town in Indiana, in the U.S.
I'm a software engineer and fledling recording hobbiest.  My basement
nano-studio consists of my Nord Lead synth, an Alesis MicroVerb 4 effects
box, (arriving in today's mail) a RNC compressor, my Sony MDM-X4 Mk II,
amp, and speakers.

I've had my MDM-X4 for a little over a month now.  It sounds great, and
is really fun, but it is not perfect.  I'm sure a good bit of bandwidth
on this list will devoted to disecting the weaknesses of the various
units.

I'm (obviously) still a total novice at recording and mixing, but I'm learning
fast and have produced one or two listenable results so far.  I'm interested
in quite a range of musical styles, and plan to take a whack at making
recordings in a number of those styles.  I use the synth both to sound
like other instruments that I don't own and/or can't play and to produce
novel, weird-ass sounds.

  - Roger


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I copied a standard 2 track MD from my Tascam 564's coaxial digital out to
my Sony MDS-JE510 optical in and none of the track marks came across (the
marks that separate songs).  I ended up with one 74min 59 second track.
  Has anyone else tried this?

Thanks!


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This is just a note to the small, brave band of early subscribers
to say that I'm waiting for a few more people to subscribe before
I try to kick off discussion.  But that doesn't mean that others
can't dive in if they want.  I figure once we've got a somewhat stable
roster we can all "introduce" ourselves, etc.

Thanks again for signing up.

  - Roger


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This list is for users and potential users of multi-track
MiniDisc-based recorders, such as the Sony MDM-X4, the Yamaha
MD-4 and MD-8, and the Tascam.  Its content will likely overlap
some of the recording-related Usenet news groups, but this
list will mostly focus on issues specific to digital multi-track
recording.  We may also discuss mastering of regular stereo
music MDs.  Welcome, and enjoy!

  - Roger