I got more data for this:
http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/2009/11/soul-nebula-closeup-finalized.html

J-P

Hello to all:
I believe that I have finished working the image of Elephant Trunk with the CFHT
palette.
Thanks to see the photography.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4122942408_41bc7eb6ff_o.jpg

Many greetings
Cesar

please, have a look:
http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/2009/11/colors-in-astro-images.html

J-P

Hi All,

I have opened an Astroimage Portfolio under a Zenfolio service.
Please, have a look:
http://astroanarchy.zenfolio.com/
Comments and ideas are welcome.

J-P

Hello Friends.

I'd like to share a tri-color narrowband image of M1, Crab Nebula in
Taurus.

Mount: Takahashi NJP
Telescope: Takahashi TOA-130 with Tak 7.8x reducer (FL=780mm, f/6.0)
Camera: SXVF-H9 (image scale 1.69"/pixel)
Filters: Astrodon 5nm SII, 5nm Ha and 3nm OIII
Total Exposure: 840 minutes

To see the image at full resolution, click on the "O" at the top of the page.
Imaging notes are located below the image.

http://tinyurl.com/ybrlom2

All comments are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

Gordon Mandell

César:
Very nice image, even with some fog in front of the bright stars.
Un abrazo,
Eric. (México)




--- In narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com, "mexhunter" <mexhunter@...> wrote:
>
> Hello to all:
> Thanks.
> Last night it was very foggy, reason why the RGB photos, are not very good. I
will have them to repeat. But this it is the result with those photos.
> 9 x 20 minutes in Ha and 20 x 3 minutes in R, 20 x 3 minutes in G and 20 x 3
minutes in B.
>
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2542/4110217074_027e611186_o.jpg
>
> Many greetings
> Cesar
>
> --- In narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com, "mexhunter" <mexhunter@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello to all:
> > They are 9 frames of 20 minutes, for a total of three hours, with the filter
of Ha of 3 nm, telescope Epsilon 180 and camera QSI540.
> >
> > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2800/4074148748_a3fe50b4b4_b.jpg
> >
> > Thanks to come to see.
> > Many greetings
> > Cesar
> >
>

Hello to all:
Thanks.
Last night it was very foggy, reason why the RGB photos, are not very good. I
will have them to repeat. But this it is the result with those photos.
9 x 20 minutes in Ha and 20 x 3 minutes in R, 20 x 3 minutes in G and 20 x 3
minutes in B.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2542/4110217074_027e611186_o.jpg

Many greetings
Cesar

--- In narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com, "mexhunter" <mexhunter@...> wrote:
>
> Hello to all:
> They are 9 frames of 20 minutes, for a total of three hours, with the filter
of Ha of 3 nm, telescope Epsilon 180 and camera QSI540.
>
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2800/4074148748_a3fe50b4b4_b.jpg
>
> Thanks to come to see.
> Many greetings
> Cesar
>

Hello Friends.

I'd like to share a tri-color narrowband image of NGC 7635, Bubble Nebula in
Cassiopeia.

Mount: Takahashi NJP
Telescope: Takahashi TOA-130 with Tak 7.8x reducer (FL=780mm, f/6.0)
Camera: SXVF-H9 (image scale 1.69"/pixel)
Filters: Astrodon 5nm SII, 5nm Ha and 3nm OIII
Total Exposure: 1080 minutes

To see the image at full resolution, click on the "O" at the top of the page. 
Imaging notes are located below the image.

http://tinyurl.com/yk72bu5

All comments are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

Gordon Mandell

Hi, I'm Tim and new to this group. For those interested I added light off data
to the chart that Richard posted. Hopefully, I did it all right.

Tim

--- In narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Crisp" <rdcrisp@...> wrote:
>
> Tim Khan recently purchased an FLI Microline ML16803.
>
> He sent me his Photon Transfer Curve that he measured the past two days.
>
> This is the first ML16803 I have seen any measured data from. He did the work.
Good work too, I might add.
>
> His results are consistent with other FLI cameras I have measured; read noise
of 7.31 e- taken at 1MHz
>
> the PTC can be found in the files section: tim_ptc_ml16803.pdf
>
> I have been accused of faking my data by the management of at least one CCD
camera maker; they apparently are troubled by the results being measured from
their competitor's cameras and being compared to their product. Equally
importantly they seem to have even more problem with having users that are
competant enough to make measurements on their own instead of being reliant on
being spoon-fed "the party line" by the bosses in the Kremlin.
>
> Well the cat is out of the bag.... several people are now following my lead at
PTC analysis and taking advantage of the "wide open" support of overscan data
that FLI supplies in their cameras with no questions asked. This genie is out of
the bottle today and is showing no signs of being interested in being returned
to it.
>
> Funny how difficult it is to get the other camera vendors to provide overscan
support: like I have said in the past, if you know your camera will fall short
of your competition, why make it easy for your customers to make accurate
measurements to see what the truth actually is?
>
> People can try to limit access to the truth, but such policies are
non-sustainable. Remember that the Iron Curtain fell over 20 years ago.
>
> rdc
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the narrowbandimaging
group.

   File        : /TK-PTC_ML16803-rev-2.pdf
   Uploaded by : timkhan <timkhan@...>
   Description : TK PTC - added light off data

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narrowbandimaging/files/TK-PTC_ML16803-rev-2.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

timkhan <timkhan@...>

Hi,

If you have pair of Red/Cyan Eyeglasses you can see my
volumized Nebula images here:
http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/2009/11/anaglyph-redcyan-stereo-images.html

Note!
You can use Red / Green filers instead!
RED goes to Left.

J-P Metsavainio

----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Crisp

To: FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com

Cc: narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com ; ccd-imaging-technology@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:03 AM

Subject: Re: CCD/CMOS shutter and architecture modes/tradeoffs was Re: [FLI_Imaging_Systems]

 

you bring up a good point on cost regarding frame transfer ccds Paul

 

the smaller arrays aren't terribly costly and have been used in video cameras in the past. they can be well suited for video cameras for low light applications: very sensitive due to the full frame fill factor and no mechanical shutter required

 

you may be surprised to see that some current researchers have resurrected the frame transfer ccd idea for 0.5 micron pixel CCDs intended for low cost Cellphone cam type applications. Architecturally they have changed it by using multiple apertures sprinkled around the sensor with many sub blocks.

 

one of the authors is a fellow I know from my days as program chair for the International Solid State Circuits Conference back during the late 90s

 

www.narrowbandimaging.com/incoming/c107.pdf

 

www.narrowbandimaging.com/incoming/c108.pdf

 

----- Original Message -----

From: paul8214

To: FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:44 AM

Subject: CCD/CMOS shutter and architecture modes/tradeoffs was Re: [FLI_Imaging_Systems]

 

very good information....

most CCDs used in amateur imaging are full frame or interline. I havent seen any CCDs in common use using frame transfer.

For a frame transfer CCD of active area A, you need another section of silicon to store the image....hence the total area of silicon needed is 2A....

hence frame transfer are the more expensive CCD relative to photosensitive area/$

thats my uderstanding.....

kodak have some stuff on Global and rolling shutters on their website

paul

--- In FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Crisp" <rdcrisp@...> wrote:
>
> the sensor determines whether or not a shutter is needed
>
> the full frame sensors (also called progressive scan) such as the Kodak KAF series have no way to stop the integration of light when being read out.
>
> So you must either
>
> 1) accept image smear
> 2) use a pulsed light source to illuminate the target that is synchronized with the readout
> 3) use a mechanical shutter
>
>
> interline sensors such as the Kodak KAI series, have a different array design that features
>
> 1) photodiodes that capture the light and converts to electrons
> 2) a light shielded CCD structure between the columns of photodiodes that the electrons are transferred to for readout.
>
>
> There's a third type of CCD called a Frame transfer that has a full frame light sensing array and a light shielded full frame array to which the charge is rapidly shifted for the readout to occur more slowly later.
>
> The frame transfer types do feature image smear depending on the brightness of the scene and motion versus the shifting speed
>
> and there's a fourth type of CCD called a TDI type (time delay integration) that is wide and only a few pixels deep. They are read out with no shutter and are used for things like aerial surveillance where the motion of the aircraft over the target matches the line readout time so they can make a long strip of an image.... they may be 4096 pixels by 12 pixels for example. The x12 is like taking 12 exposures and summing together, so that's how you improve the S/N
>
> Those are typically how satellite cameras work like weather or surveillance satellites. The first three types are also called "staring arrays" because they "stare" at the scene versus the TDI types. The TDI either work in pushbroom or whisk broom, depending on whether they scan along the axis of motion or sweep back and forth. Flatbed scanners use TDI type sensors btw...
>
> You can also combine Frame transfer with Interline
>
>
> for CMOS image sensors they typically have an electronic shutter arrangement and depending on the pixel design they either have what is called a rolling shutter (most common) or a "snap shutter"
>
> the Rolling shutter "shutters" one line at a time while the Snap shutter "shutters" the entire array at once like an interline sensor.
>
> The rolling shutter gives weird motion artifacts and when you see cellphone video that shows heavy distortion in moving scenes that is due to the rolling shutter featured in most cheap CMOS sensors.
>
> I assembled a few slides that explain the basics and put them on my website
>
> www.narrowbandimaging.com/incoming/ccd_TYPES.pdf
>
>
> The Full Frame, Frame Transfer and TDI sensors have the highest percentage of the surface that is photosensitive versus the other architectures (CMOS and Interline). So they have the highest "fill factor" and consequently the highest QE by inference.
>
> the fill factor /QE is improved for the Interline and CMOS sensors by placing microlenses over each pixel to divert the light from hitting the optically dead parts of the pixel in favor of the photoreceptors.
>
>
> aren't you glad you asked, Gordon :-)
>
> (I just love this stuff, as if you could't tell <g>)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: GordonM
> To: FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:32 PM
> Subject: [FLI_Imaging_Systems] Re: ML 8300 Mechanical Shutter Issues.
>
>
>
> Hi Richard and Friends.
>
> Why do some cameras have shutters and others do not?
>
> Is there an advantage to using a camera with a shutter given that they may be more prone to mechanical failure?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Gordon
>
> --- In FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Crisp" <rdcrisp@> wrote:
> >
> > sounds to me as if you have a driver problem
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Anjal
> > To: FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:11 AM
> > Subject: [FLI_Imaging_Systems] Re: ML 8300 Mechanical Shutter Issues.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, FLI customer service is top notch. Greg got back to me immediately about this issue and offered to either send me documentation to fix this myself (which I'm going to do) or send the camera in to FLI (they even offered to pick up shipping - excellent customer service) to get it fixed ASAP. More as it becomes available....
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: paul8214

To: FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:44 AM

Subject: CCD/CMOS shutter and architecture modes/tradeoffs was Re: [FLI_Imaging_Systems]

 

very good information....

most CCDs used in amateur imaging are full frame or interline. I havent seen any CCDs in common use using frame transfer.

For a frame transfer CCD of active area A, you need another section of silicon to store the image....hence the total area of silicon needed is 2A....

hence frame transfer are the more expensive CCD relative to photosensitive area/$

thats my uderstanding.....

kodak have some stuff on Global and rolling shutters on their website

paul

--- In FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Crisp" <rdcrisp@...> wrote:
>
> the sensor determines whether or not a shutter is needed
>
> the full frame sensors (also called progressive scan) such as the Kodak KAF series have no way to stop the integration of light when being read out.
>
> So you must either
>
> 1) accept image smear
> 2) use a pulsed light source to illuminate the target that is synchronized with the readout
> 3) use a mechanical shutter
>
>
> interline sensors such as the Kodak KAI series, have a different array design that features
>
> 1) photodiodes that capture the light and converts to electrons
> 2) a light shielded CCD structure between the columns of photodiodes that the electrons are transferred to for readout.
>
>
> There's a third type of CCD called a Frame transfer that has a full frame light sensing array and a light shielded full frame array to which the charge is rapidly shifted for the readout to occur more slowly later.
>
> The frame transfer types do feature image smear depending on the brightness of the scene and motion versus the shifting speed
>
> and there's a fourth type of CCD called a TDI type (time delay integration) that is wide and only a few pixels deep. They are read out with no shutter and are used for things like aerial surveillance where the motion of the aircraft over the target matches the line readout time so they can make a long strip of an image.... they may be 4096 pixels by 12 pixels for example. The x12 is like taking 12 exposures and summing together, so that's how you improve the S/N
>
> Those are typically how satellite cameras work like weather or surveillance satellites. The first three types are also called "staring arrays" because they "stare" at the scene versus the TDI types. The TDI either work in pushbroom or whisk broom, depending on whether they scan along the axis of motion or sweep back and forth. Flatbed scanners use TDI type sensors btw...
>
> You can also combine Frame transfer with Interline
>
>
> for CMOS image sensors they typically have an electronic shutter arrangement and depending on the pixel design they either have what is called a rolling shutter (most common) or a "snap shutter"
>
> the Rolling shutter "shutters" one line at a time while the Snap shutter "shutters" the entire array at once like an interline sensor.
>
> The rolling shutter gives weird motion artifacts and when you see cellphone video that shows heavy distortion in moving scenes that is due to the rolling shutter featured in most cheap CMOS sensors.
>
> I assembled a few slides that explain the basics and put them on my website
>
> www.narrowbandimaging.com/incoming/ccd_TYPES.pdf
>
>
> The Full Frame, Frame Transfer and TDI sensors have the highest percentage of the surface that is photosensitive versus the other architectures (CMOS and Interline). So they have the highest "fill factor" and consequently the highest QE by inference.
>
> the fill factor /QE is improved for the Interline and CMOS sensors by placing microlenses over each pixel to divert the light from hitting the optically dead parts of the pixel in favor of the photoreceptors.
>
>
> aren't you glad you asked, Gordon :-)
>
> (I just love this stuff, as if you could't tell <g>)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: GordonM
> To: FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:32 PM
> Subject: [FLI_Imaging_Systems] Re: ML 8300 Mechanical Shutter Issues.
>
>
>
> Hi Richard and Friends.
>
> Why do some cameras have shutters and others do not?
>
> Is there an advantage to using a camera with a shutter given that they may be more prone to mechanical failure?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Gordon
>
> --- In FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Crisp" <rdcrisp@> wrote:
> >
> > sounds to me as if you have a driver problem
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Anjal
> > To: FLI_Imaging_Systems@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:11 AM
> > Subject: [FLI_Imaging_Systems] Re: ML 8300 Mechanical Shutter Issues.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, FLI customer service is top notch. Greg got back to me immediately about this issue and offered to either send me documentation to fix this myself (which I'm going to do) or send the camera in to FLI (they even offered to pick up shipping - excellent customer service) to get it fixed ASAP. More as it becomes available....
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: hercule

To: narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:13 AM

Subject: [NBI] Piece of Soul

 

After a long period of cloud cover, last night was about three hours opening in it.
I started a new project with Soul Nebula. Please have a look:
http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/2009/11/ic1848-soul-nebula.html

J-P

After a long period of cloud cover, last night was about three hours opening in
it.
I started a new project with Soul Nebula. Please have a look:
http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/2009/11/ic1848-soul-nebula.html

J-P

Thanks Cesar and Richard.

Gordon

--- In narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Crisp" <rdcrisp@...> wrote:
>
> wow, that looks cool Gordon!
>
> I really look forward to seeing your images: they are looking very nice
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: GordonM
>   To: narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:42 PM
>   Subject: [NBI] Tri-Color NB Image of NGC 281 with SXVF-H9
>
>
>
>   Hello Friends.
>
>   I'd like to share a tri-color narrowband image of NGC 281, Pac-man Nebula in
Cassiopeia.
>
>   Mount: Takahashi NJP
>   Telescope: Takahashi TOA-130 with reducer (FL=780mm, f/6.0)
>   Camera: SXVF-H9 (image scale 1.69"/pixel)
>   Filters: Astrodon 5nm SII, 5nm Ha and 3nm OIII
>   Total Exposure: 1140 minutes
>
>   To see the image at full resolution, click on the "O" at the top of the
page.
>
>   http://tinyurl.com/yd5e856
>
>   All comments are welcome.
>
>   Thanks for looking.
>
>   Gordon Mandell
>

----- Original Message -----

From: GordonM

To: narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:42 PM

Subject: [NBI] Tri-Color NB Image of NGC 281 with SXVF-H9

 

Hello Friends.

I'd like to share a tri-color narrowband image of NGC 281, Pac-man Nebula in Cassiopeia.

Mount: Takahashi NJP
Telescope: Takahashi TOA-130 with reducer (FL=780mm, f/6.0)
Camera: SXVF-H9 (image scale 1.69"/pixel)
Filters: Astrodon 5nm SII, 5nm Ha and 3nm OIII
Total Exposure: 1140 minutes

To see the image at full resolution, click on the "O" at the top of the page.

http://tinyurl.com/yd5e856

All comments are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

Gordon Mandell

Hello Friends.

I'd like to share a tri-color narrowband image of NGC 281, Pac-man Nebula in
Cassiopeia.

Mount: Takahashi NJP
Telescope: Takahashi TOA-130 with reducer (FL=780mm, f/6.0)
Camera: SXVF-H9 (image scale 1.69"/pixel)
Filters: Astrodon 5nm SII, 5nm Ha and 3nm OIII
Total Exposure: 1140 minutes

To see the image at full resolution, click on the "O" at the top of the page.

http://tinyurl.com/yd5e856

All comments are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

Gordon Mandell

my view is to educate and educate some more

the more knowledgeable are the customers the more demanding they will be of
their supplier

the more demanding they are of the suppliers the more likely we are to see
better products and better pricing

truth is the great equalizer. the iron curtain crap doesn't get traction
long term


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Fulbright" <mike.fulbright@...>
To: <narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [NBI] Tim Khan's measured FLI Microline ML16803 Photon Transfer
Curve (his work, not mine)


> I'm amazed a PTC analysis isn't part of the standard QA checkout for
> these high end cameras to be honest.  It doesn't take long and can
> probably be automated if you are doing dozens a quarter.
>
> Vendors also should have an engineering reference on their website of
> the minimum acceptable specifications so you know beforehand you won't
> get anything less in your camera.
>
> Of course while I'm dreaming I'd like spot diagrams for all their OTAs
> with different reducer/flattener optics too.  I ought to know how good
> the color correction is before spending money.
>
> Good work Richard!  I agree its troubling the response to engineering
> data is not of a subjective engineering nature but defensive and
> political.
>
> Michael
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I'm amazed a PTC analysis isn't part of the standard QA checkout for
these high end cameras to be honest.  It doesn't take long and can
probably be automated if you are doing dozens a quarter.

Vendors also should have an engineering reference on their website of
the minimum acceptable specifications so you know beforehand you won't
get anything less in your camera.

Of course while I'm dreaming I'd like spot diagrams for all their OTAs
with different reducer/flattener optics too.  I ought to know how good
the color correction is before spending money.

Good work Richard!  I agree its troubling the response to engineering
data is not of a subjective engineering nature but defensive and political.

Michael

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the narrowbandimaging
group.

   File        : /tim_ptc_ml16803.pdf
   Uploaded by : rdcrisp <rdcrisp@...>
   Description : Tim Khan's measured ML16803 PTC

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narrowbandimaging/files/tim_ptc_ml16803.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

rdcrisp <rdcrisp@...>

----- Original Message -----

From: mexhunter

To: narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:31 AM

Subject: [NBI] Combine Ha and RGB.

 

Hello to all:
There is some prescription to combine frames of Ha with those of RGB? Thank you very much and greetings
Cesar

Hello to all:
There is some prescription to combine frames of Ha with those of RGB? Thank you
very much and greetings
Cesar

Thanks Guys,

This method is for "ready" images. Meaning fully calibrated and stretched
material.
Bob, I can see what you mean, I'll keep that in my mind.

J-P
--- In narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <robert.hertel@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In narrowbandimaging@yahoogroups.com, "hercule" <jp.metsavainio@> wrote:
> >
> > I made an example of Tone Mapping procedure.
> > http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/2009/11/power-of-tone-mapping.html
> >
> > Comments are welcome and if somebody is trying this method, I'll like to
here from your experiments to further improve this work flow.
> >
> > J-P Metsavainio
> >
> Hi, JP,
> I am a relative beginner, and tried the process. I did get a little lost, and
ultimately didn't finish; seemed to me that at times you used "channels" and
"images" interchangeably, and I wound up getting confused.  Maybe next time
through it will go better for me.
> Perhaps if you edit it at some point, you could keep that in mind.
> Thank you,
> Bob Hertel
>