sorry, never thought of this, - where shall I put files so that
everyone understands where there are?

Klas.

At 18:17 2009-11-22, you wrote:
>Thanks, John.
>
>On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:01 AM, hartogj wrote:
>
> > Hi Bernie,
> > Klas's file is the group Files section - find "Grinden
> > 091122_edit.mp3".
> >
> > or try this link
> >
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/files/Grinden
> > 091122_edit.mp3
> >
> >
> > John Hartog
> >
> > --- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, Bernie Krause <chirp@...>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Klas,
> >>
> >> Couldn't open the file. Is there another link?
> >>
> >> Bernie
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 22, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
> >>
> >>>
>
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8FEJS2w4Do6b01eBHGWsL1-0y6PpfcNCk1H7wfUcdtAyybSIkgK\
c2x6d--PYk0IY-RwjWAstGefwE_7qucmxeAEkBz6lPoXm90aAGg/Grinden%20091122_edit.mp3
> >>
> >> Wild Sanctuary
> >> POB 536
> >> Glen Ellen, CA 95442
> >> 707-996-6677
> >> http://www.wildsanctuary.com
> >> chirp@...
> >> Google Earth zooms: http://earth.wildsanctuary.com
> >> SKYPE: biophony
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> > Krause
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>Wild Sanctuary
>POB 536
>Glen Ellen, CA 95442
>707-996-6677
>http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>chirp@...
>Google Earth zooms: http://earth.wildsanctuary.com
>SKYPE: biophony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email: telinga@...
website: www.telinga.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Damn! That's just lovely, Klas. What a wonderful and special system!
Thanks for posting it. It's as compelling as when we first heard it
last summer in Wyoming.

Bernie


On Nov 22, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:

> Developing the Murie Mike, I sent a file
>
"<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8FEJS2w4Do6b01eBHGWsL1-0y6PpfcNCk1H7wfUcdtAyybSIk\
gKc2x6d--PYk0IY-RwjWAstGefwE_7qucmxeAEkBz6lPoXm90aAGg/Grinden%20091122_edit.mp3
> >Grinden
> 091122_edit.mp3 " to our site. It's a "everyday" recording of birds,
> distant traffic, neighbors working and horses running. Comments on
> stereo width and "space" is very much appreciated.
>
> Klas
>
>
>
> Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> email: telinga@...
> website: www.telinga.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> Krause
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Wild Sanctuary
POB 536
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
707-996-6677
http://www.wildsanctuary.com
chirp@...
Google Earth zooms: http://earth.wildsanctuary.com
SKYPE: biophony

Thanks for feed-back.
I am not at all into fine tuning yet, only roughly looking at a
suitable material for the "cone" and trying to decide how big it must be.
The idea is to make a plastic sheet, probably polyurethane, which you
easily and in seconds shape into the correct cone, ready for use,
windshield, tripod mount, suspension and all.

Klas.

At 20:03 2009-11-22, you wrote:
>Damn! That's just lovely, Klas. What a wonderful and special system!
>Thanks for posting it. It's as compelling as when we first heard it
>last summer in Wyoming.
>
>Bernie
>
>
>On Nov 22, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
>
> > Developing the Murie Mike, I sent a file
> >
>
"<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8FEJS2w4Do6b01eBHGWsL1-0y6PpfcNCk1H7wfUcdtAyybSIk\
gKc2x6d--PYk0IY-RwjWAstGefwE_7qucmxeAEkBz6lPoXm90aAGg/Grinden%20091122_edit.mp3
>  > >Grinden
> > 091122_edit.mp3 " to our site. It's a "everyday" recording of birds,
> > distant traffic, neighbors working and horses running. Comments on
> > stereo width and "space" is very much appreciated.
> >
> > Klas
> >
> >
> >
> > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > email: telinga@...
> > website: www.telinga.com
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> > Krause
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>Wild Sanctuary
>POB 536
>Glen Ellen, CA 95442
>707-996-6677
>http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>chirp@...
>Google Earth zooms: http://earth.wildsanctuary.com
>SKYPE: biophony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email: telinga@...
website: www.telinga.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

More people had trouble finding it so I put the file here:
It's the one on top, 3.4 mb.
http://www.telinga.com/gallery/gallery_private.htm

Klas.

At 20:03 2009-11-22, you wrote:
>Damn! That's just lovely, Klas. What a wonderful and special system!
>Thanks for posting it. It's as compelling as when we first heard it
>last summer in Wyoming.
>
>Bernie
>
>
>On Nov 22, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
>
> > Developing the Murie Mike, I sent a file
> >
>
"<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8FEJS2w4Do6b01eBHGWsL1-0y6PpfcNCk1H7wfUcdtAyybSIk\
gKc2x6d--PYk0IY-RwjWAstGefwE_7qucmxeAEkBz6lPoXm90aAGg/Grinden%20091122_edit.mp3
>  > >Grinden
> > 091122_edit.mp3 " to our site. It's a "everyday" recording of birds,
> > distant traffic, neighbors working and horses running. Comments on
> > stereo width and "space" is very much appreciated.
> >
> > Klas
> >
> >
> >
> > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > email: telinga@...
> > website: www.telinga.com
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> > Krause
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>Wild Sanctuary
>POB 536
>Glen Ellen, CA 95442
>707-996-6677
>http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>chirp@...
>Google Earth zooms: http://earth.wildsanctuary.com
>SKYPE: biophony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email: telinga@...
website: www.telinga.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Klas:

It's really nice to finally see a picture of what this system looks like. What
material did you use for the cone? It looks like iy is not very rigid.

Also, what capsules did you use for the microphones? I assume that they are omni
capsules. In the sound file it seemed to me that perhaps there is a bit more
self-noise in the right channel. But the image was quite good!

Thanks!

-Greg

--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, Klas Strandberg <telinga@...> wrote:
>
> More people had trouble finding it so I put the file here:
> It's the one on top, 3.4 mb.
> http://www.telinga.com/gallery/gallery_private.htm
>
> Klas.
>
> At 20:03 2009-11-22, you wrote:
> >Damn! That's just lovely, Klas. What a wonderful and special system!
> >Thanks for posting it. It's as compelling as when we first heard it
> >last summer in Wyoming.
> >
> >Bernie
> >
> >
> >On Nov 22, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
> >
> > > Developing the Murie Mike, I sent a file
> > >
> >
"<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8FEJS2w4Do6b01eBHGWsL1-0y6PpfcNCk1H7wfUcdtAyybSIk\
gKc2x6d--PYk0IY-RwjWAstGefwE_7qucmxeAEkBz6lPoXm90aAGg/Grinden%20091122_edit.mp3
> >  > >Grinden
> > > 091122_edit.mp3 " to our site. It's a "everyday" recording of birds,
> > > distant traffic, neighbors working and horses running. Comments on
> > > stereo width and "space" is very much appreciated.
> > >
> > > Klas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > > email: telinga@...
> > > website: www.telinga.com
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> > > Krause
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >Wild Sanctuary
> >POB 536
> >Glen Ellen, CA 95442
> >707-996-6677
> >http://www.wildsanctuary.com
> >chirp@...
> >Google Earth zooms: http://earth.wildsanctuary.com
> >SKYPE: biophony
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> >sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> email: telinga@...
> website: www.telinga.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Inspiring in all regards!

--
   aaron.ximm@...
   quietamerican.org
   oneminutevacation.org

   83% happy
    9% disgusted
    6% fearful
    2% angry

The picture is the very first prototype built the night before
Bernie's Murie Center workshop out of crap that I happened to have.
Now I am working with a bigger cone out of polyurethane, which is
flexible, unbreakable and has a low resonance. The idea is to have
the whole mike as a sheet which you easily bend into the correct cone shape.
As for now, I use the same 4*10 mm omnis mic system as in the Stereo
DATmic. There are some new omnis coming in from Japan in Dec and
perhaps I will use those instead.

The image is just what is interesting for now. Thanks for feed back!

Klas.

   At 21:13 2009-11-22, you wrote:
>Klas:
>
>It's really nice to finally see a picture of what this system looks
>like. What material did you use for the cone? It looks like iy is
>not very rigid.
>
>Also, what capsules did you use for the microphones? I assume that
>they are omni capsules. In the sound file it seemed to me that
>perhaps there is a bit more self-noise in the right channel. But the
>image was quite good!
>
>Thanks!
>
>-Greg
>
>--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, Klas Strandberg <telinga@...> wrote:
> >
> > More people had trouble finding it so I put the file here:
> > It's the one on top, 3.4 mb.
> > http://www.telinga.com/gallery/gallery_private.htm
> >
> > Klas.
> >
> > At 20:03 2009-11-22, you wrote:
> > >Damn! That's just lovely, Klas. What a wonderful and special system!
> > >Thanks for posting it. It's as compelling as when we first heard it
> > >last summer in Wyoming.
> > >
> > >Bernie
> > >
> > >
> > >On Nov 22, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
> > >
> > > > Developing the Murie Mike, I sent a file
> > > >
> > >
>
"<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8FEJS2w4Do6b01eBHGWsL1-0y6PpfcNCk1H7wfUcdtAyybSIk\
gKc2x6d--PYk0IY-RwjWAstGefwE_7qucmxeAEkBz6lPoXm90aAGg/Grinden%20091122_edit.mp3
>   > >  > >Grinden
> > > > 091122_edit.mp3 " to our site. It's a "everyday" recording of birds,
> > > > distant traffic, neighbors working and horses running. Comments on
> > > > stereo width and "space" is very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Klas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > > > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > > > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > > > email: telinga@...
> > > > website: www.telinga.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > > > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> > > > Krause
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >Wild Sanctuary
> > >POB 536
> > >Glen Ellen, CA 95442
> > >707-996-6677
> > >http://www.wildsanctuary.com
> > >chirp@...
> > >Google Earth zooms: http://earth.wildsanctuary.com
> > >SKYPE: biophony
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > >sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > email: telinga@...
> > website: www.telinga.com
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email: telinga@...
website: www.telinga.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 1:36 PM +0000 11/22/09, Raimund wrote:
>
>
>Hi Rob,
>
>Today I made another sample recording with the M10 fitted into a
>piece of foam:
>
><http://www.avisoft.com/scratch/SONY_PCM_M10_baffle.mp3>http://www.avisoft.com/\
scratch/SONY_PCM_M10_baffle.mp3

Interesting experiment, Raimund.

I placed the results from your first recording at the head for
comparison. The soundtrack is well- saturated, adjust playback volume
to suit your personal taste:

http://tinyurl.com/yhh2jaa (3mb QuickTime movie)

I think the stereo imaging of the M10's built-in array might be
better without the baffle. The additional sound pollution in the 2nd
recording makes the evaluation harder, but the overlapping treble in
the middle of the stereo field from the capsules' 90 degree off-axis
peaks seems to improve center localization and presence. The bulging
bass in the center of the field from the near coincident omni mics
does make the space sound flat but to separate these low frequencies
would probably take a much larger, dense baffle. Foam doesn't provide
much separation under 500Hz but it does significantly reduce the
amount of high frequency cross-over.

When omni mics are faced away from each other as they are in Sony's
M10 array, the high frequency response would typically taper-off to
the sides (front) and create a drop in the high frequencies in the
middle of the stereo field. However, according to Sony's response
charts for the M10 mics, there's a peak at ~3.5K Hz at 90 degrees
off-axis that seems to off-set this darker hole in the middle. Adding
a baffle sort of re-introduces the inherent HF "hole" challenge of
the opposing array design.

The EQ changes I opted for appear to support non-baffle use as well.
In the first recording, the treble in the middle of the field seemed
sufficient, but in the baffled recording, the birds didn't have
enough presence without some HF boost in the middle. Note that I
actually applied treble cut to only the sides in the first recording
which reduced treble "hot spots" at the speakers allowing more
horizontal spread across the center. I couldn't get that effect with
the 2nd recording.

I personally like that the mics produce a strong bottom end to work
with. The LF response is a little uneven, but, with careful EQ, it
should be easier for recordists to portray depth.

Before and after takes with a baffle might provide more insights but
the way the factors are lining-up, adding a baffle should not provide
much, if any improvement. If the omni mics were removable, one could
spread them apart and use any number of proven small, stereo arrays,
but the over-emphasized middle from the bottom end imaging is going
to be difficult to modify locked into the recorder's body.

As before, the QuickTime movie does not show the 2nd M-S plugs used
after the EQ plugs. The post EQ M-S plugs are  MS -> L/R at unity.
Rob D.


><http://www.avisoft.com/scratch/SONY_PCM_M10_baffle.jpg>http://www.avisoft.com/\
scratch/SONY_PCM_M10_baffle.jpg
>
>The foam that I used is perhaps still a bit too soft, but I think
>that it improved the stereo effect at higher frequencies.
>
>This is the view from the hill with the flock of jackdaws and crows
>where I made that recording:
>
><http://www.avisoft.com/scratch/Arkenberge.jpg>http://www.avisoft.com/scratch/A\
rkenberge.jpg
>
>Regards,
>Raimund
>


--


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Klas,

Very comfortable and natural to listen to these sounds through
headphones, and seems to have good stereo image for low frequency
sounds (e.g. cough and horses hoofs).

Vicki



On 23/11/2009, at 7:52 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:

> The picture is the very first prototype built the night before
> Bernie's Murie Center workshop out of crap that I happened to have.
> Now I am working with a bigger cone out of polyurethane, which is
> flexible, unbreakable and has a low resonance. The idea is to have
> the whole mike as a sheet which you easily bend into the correct
> cone shape.
> As for now, I use the same 4*10 mm omnis mic system as in the Stereo
> DATmic. There are some new omnis coming in from Japan in Dec and
> perhaps I will use those instead.
>
> The image is just what is interesting for now. Thanks for feed back!
>
> Klas.
>
>   At 21:13 2009-11-22, you wrote:
>> Klas:
>>
>> It's really nice to finally see a picture of what this system looks
>> like. What material did you use for the cone? It looks like iy is
>> not very rigid.
>>
>> Also, what capsules did you use for the microphones? I assume that
>> they are omni capsules. In the sound file it seemed to me that
>> perhaps there is a bit more self-noise in the right channel. But the
>> image was quite good!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>> --- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, Klas Strandberg
>> <telinga@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> More people had trouble finding it so I put the file here:
>>> It's the one on top, 3.4 mb.
>>> http://www.telinga.com/gallery/gallery_private.htm
>>>
>>> Klas.
>>>
>>> At 20:03 2009-11-22, you wrote:
>>>> Damn! That's just lovely, Klas. What a wonderful and special
>>>> system!
>>>> Thanks for posting it. It's as compelling as when we first heard it
>>>> last summer in Wyoming.
>>>>
>>>> Bernie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Developing the Murie Mike, I sent a file
>>>>>
>>>>
>> "<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/
>> v1/8FEJS2w4Do6b01eBHGWsL1-0y6PpfcNCk1H7wfUcdtAyybSIkgKc2x6d--
>> PYk0IY-RwjWAstGefwE_7qucmxeAEkBz6lPoXm90aAGg/Grinden%
>> 20091122_edit.mp3
>>>>>> Grinden
>>>>> 091122_edit.mp3 " to our site. It's a "everyday" recording of
>>>>> birds,
>>>>> distant traffic, neighbors working and horses running. Comments on
>>>>> stereo width and "space" is very much appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Klas
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
>>>>> S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
>>>>> Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
>>>>> email: telinga@...
>>>>> website: www.telinga.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>
>>>>>

Thanks Vicky.
The rather thick polyurethane rubber has so far been the best to
shelter off mid / low frequencies.

Klas.

At 23:42 2009-11-22, you wrote:
>Klas,
>
>Very comfortable and natural to listen to these sounds through
>headphones, and seems to have good stereo image for low frequency
>sounds (e.g. cough and horses hoofs).
>
>Vicki
>
>
>
>On 23/11/2009, at 7:52 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
>
> > The picture is the very first prototype built the night before
> > Bernie's Murie Center workshop out of crap that I happened to have.
> > Now I am working with a bigger cone out of polyurethane, which is
> > flexible, unbreakable and has a low resonance. The idea is to have
> > the whole mike as a sheet which you easily bend into the correct
> > cone shape.
> > As for now, I use the same 4*10 mm omnis mic system as in the Stereo
> > DATmic. There are some new omnis coming in from Japan in Dec and
> > perhaps I will use those instead.
> >
> > The image is just what is interesting for now. Thanks for feed back!
> >
> > Klas.
> >
> >   At 21:13 2009-11-22, you wrote:
> >> Klas:
> >>
> >> It's really nice to finally see a picture of what this system looks
> >> like. What material did you use for the cone? It looks like iy is
> >> not very rigid.
> >>
> >> Also, what capsules did you use for the microphones? I assume that
> >> they are omni capsules. In the sound file it seemed to me that
> >> perhaps there is a bit more self-noise in the right channel. But the
> >> image was quite good!
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> -Greg
> >>
> >> --- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, Klas Strandberg
> >> <telinga@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> More people had trouble finding it so I put the file here:
> >>> It's the one on top, 3.4 mb.
> >>> http://www.telinga.com/gallery/gallery_private.htm
> >>>
> >>> Klas.
> >>>
> >>> At 20:03 2009-11-22, you wrote:
> >>>> Damn! That's just lovely, Klas. What a wonderful and special
> >>>> system!
> >>>> Thanks for posting it. It's as compelling as when we first heard it
> >>>> last summer in Wyoming.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bernie
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Developing the Murie Mike, I sent a file
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >> "<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/ >>
> v1/8FEJS2w4Do6b01eBHGWsL1-0y6PpfcNCk1H7wfUcdtAyybSIkgKc2x6d--
> >> PYk0IY-RwjWAstGefwE_7qucmxeAEkBz6lPoXm90aAGg/Grinden%
> >> 20091122_edit.mp3
> >>>>>> Grinden
> >>>>> 091122_edit.mp3 " to our site. It's a "everyday" recording of
> >>>>> birds,
> >>>>> distant traffic, neighbors working and horses running. Comments on
> >>>>> stereo width and "space" is very much appreciated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Klas
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> >>>>> S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> >>>>> Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> >>>>> email: telinga@...
> >>>>> website: www.telinga.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email: telinga@...
website: www.telinga.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://owltattoos.blogspot.com/

At 4:30 PM +0100 11/22/09, Klas Strandberg wrote:
>
>
>Developing the Murie Mike, I sent a file "Grinden091122_edit.mp3 "
>to our site. It's a "everyday" recording of birds, distant traffic,
>neighbors working and horses running. Comments on
>stereo width and "space" is very much appreciated.
>
>Klas

Hi Klas--
I really like your product idea of a pocket recorder compatible,
hand-held stereo mic array for optimized spatial imaging. (For those
who haven't looked at an earlier version of it yet:
http://www.telinga.com/gallery/MurieMike%20009_sm.jpg )

After listening to the M10's built-in mic array this morning, I was
immediately struck by the enhanced spaciousness that your spaced omni
array affords.  In order to explore its tonal balance and stereo
imaging qualities, I took the recording through some mastering and
noise reduction processes*. After reducing some of the mechanical
drones in the setting, I found that increasing the volume of the
center seemed to help with a sense of depth and articulation of
sounds across the field. (*As with the M10 recordings Raimund has
been making, I used stacked effects "plugs." I used one L/R -> M-S
plug to convert the stereo to M-S, followed this with a parametric
equalization "plug" to control the tonal balance of the center and
side channels separately, and, finally, I converted this back to
normal stereo with a M-S -> L/R plug).

Here's a QuickTime Movie with original recording first and
Center-Boosted/Equalized modified version next.  The movie soundtrack
is loud, be sure to adjust playback volume to your taste:
http://tinyurl.com/y94lk3z (2 mb)
or the full link:
https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/public/temporary/MurieMicLS-10Flt_BoostCntr_Sor\
3AAC256.mov

Not QuickTime compatible? Here's the .wav file only with the change
from the original recording to the modifications occurring about 19
seconds in:
http://tinyurl.com/ydj8njp (7mb)

And the associated Mid-Side and Equalization modifications used as a
still photo: http://tinyurl.com/ydda3em (download jpg).  The red area
in the parametric EQ window represents attenuation made to the "mid"
channel and the blue area represents attenuation made to the
"sides"channel.  The gray area under the white, "0" line is
attenuation on both the mid and side channels.

I listened to the recording on my speakers only, not with headphones.
I felt like the stereo imaging was giving me a pretty good sense of
the location. Most of the treble content from the setting seemed to
emanate from the areas around the two speaker except for louder,
treble elements like some of the bird calls and the wing-flutter-pass
which took-up "phantom" positions between the speakers. The lower
mid-range (125 to 700 Hz) mechanical drones from the environment were
mostly centered in the stereo field in the original but subtle phase
and tonal differences between the bass on the sides kept it from
homogenizing into the center. The recording was quite responsive to
EQ adjustments and I could position the city drones and workshop
sounds more clearly after the changes. The lowest octaves seem a bit
weak which could be a product of the recorder. There was some noise
in the lower mid-range that I suspected could have been from the
recorder pre. Was a LS-10 recorder used perhaps?

If I were to imagine improving the performance of the stereo array, I
would start with exploring ways to spread more of the softer treble
content across the middle (a familiar challenge). Are the diaphragms
of the mic capsules flush with the skin of the plastic material? If
so, I'd try mounting the capsules on the skin facing forward
(positioned with mic diaphragms perpendicular to the skin, not
embedded). With both capsules nearly parallel and facing forward, the
head-like barrier might work better if the sides are flattened more
like the sides of our heads. This will also help preserve ear
spacing. I don't think there's as much one can do about the centering
of the bass content, but, if one wants to get fussy, this tendency
was pretty effectively reduced with the  L/F -> MS -> Cut Lower
Mid-Range EQ -> MS -> L/R adjustment.

Thanks for sharing your project with us and for the chance to provide
some feedback. Rob D.

--

Just to note that the marantz PMD661 (and AFAIAC also the PMD660) DOES
have built in microphones..

best

m





On 09 Νοε 2009, at 3:15 π.μ., escalation746 wrote:

> After many years I've finally found the time to put together an
> introduction to the portable digital recorder field, with an
> emphasis on nature recording. Of course the target was always
> moving, making things difficult.
>
> It's on my blog here:
> http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2009/11/summary-of-portable-digital-audio.html
>
> It's non-technical and hopefully useful to beginners. It doesn't
> include all the products on the Recorder List (which I reference
> BTW), just the most important.
>
> -- robin
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rob Danielson wrote:

> When omni mics are faced away from each other as they are in Sony's
> M10 array, the high frequency response would typically taper-off to
> the sides (front) and create a drop in the high frequencies in the
> middle of the stereo field. However, according to Sony's response
> charts for the M10 mics, there's a peak at ~3.5K Hz at 90 degrees
> off-axis that seems to off-set this darker hole in the middle. Adding
> a baffle sort of re-introduces the inherent HF "hole" challenge of
> the opposing array design.

Hi Rob,

Thanks for your comments.

Yes, I also noticed this unfortunate "hole" in the middle.

>
> The EQ changes I opted for appear to support non-baffle use as well.
> In the first recording, the treble in the middle of the field seemed
> sufficient, but in the baffled recording, the birds didn't have
> enough presence without some HF boost in the middle. Note that I
> actually applied treble cut to only the sides in the first recording
> which reduced treble "hot spots" at the speakers allowing more
> horizontal spread across the center. I couldn't get that effect with
> the 2nd recording.
>
> I personally like that the mics produce a strong bottom end to work
> with. The LF response is a little uneven, but, with careful EQ, it
> should be easier for recordists to portray depth.
>
> Before and after takes with a baffle might provide more insights but
> the way the factors are lining-up, adding a baffle should not provide
> much, if any improvement.

Yep, a before and after take at exactly the same location should provide more
insights. Actually, the two takes (last week and yesterday) were made at
slightly different places and the orientation of the recorder was also
different. And of course, the specific situation was quite different. If I
remember correctly, the birds were a bit closer last week. I believe that the
baffle recording that I made yesterday is still a relatively close
representation of the sound that I heard at that place. Though, I agree that it
sounds less interesting than the other one.

Regards,
Raimund

Hi,
     On the subject of not so small rigs to use with portable recorders, Ive
played around with a set of ears I made in the Summer. Having recently brought
the Rode Blimp I decided to test how the whole contraption faired in moderate
rain for over four hours. I left the rig outside for 12+ hours and cherry picked
the best rain / birdcalls / quiet sections to present this demonstration of the
device.

My blog entry includes three audio samples, the first is probably a good place
to start listening.

http://www.urlme.net/blog/?p=1119

Kind Regards,
Mike.

From blog:
My original intention was to record using the Olympus LS10, but at the last
minute I found it could not record continuously splitting files as it records.

?? Mine does.
Max

Is there a 2GB Limit with the LS10? or will it actually carry on past this point
to the capacity of the card, or produce multiple 2gb or smaller files? I didnt
find where to set this in the menu, the LS11 has such a feature as far as I
understood.

If it will indeed record none stop, Ill try it for the next rig test.

-Cheers,
Mike

--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Max" <maxcatterwell@...> wrote:
>
> From blog:
> My original intention was to record using the Olympus LS10, but at the last
minute I found it could not record continuously splitting files as it records.
>
> ?? Mine does.
> Max
>

Hi Mike!
It records in two gig 'bites' or smaller, up to the capacity of the card. I
don't recall having to 'set' anything; I think it does this by default. Mine is
out in the car at the moment, and as it's pouring with rain and I'm not dressed
(!) I won't be running out there to check!
Cheers
Max


--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rooke" <yg@...> wrote:
>
> Is there a 2GB Limit with the LS10? or will it actually carry on past this
point to the capacity of the card, or produce multiple 2gb or smaller files? I
didnt find where to set this in the menu, the LS11 has such a feature as far as
I understood.
>
> If it will indeed record none stop, Ill try it for the next rig test.
>
> -Cheers,
> Mike
>
> --- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Max" <maxcatterwell@> wrote:
> >
> > From blog:
> > My original intention was to record using the Olympus LS10, but at the last
minute I found it could not record continuously splitting files as it records.
> >
> > ?? Mine does.
> > Max
> >
>

Hi Max,
             I just checked the manual online, 2GB chunks up to the limit of the
card or until the 200 file limit is reached for a folder.

I'll test the same mic with the LS10, should be a little bit (4dBish) quieter I
think compared to the R09HR, although the noise is hardly detectable due to the
ambient racket in the recording on the blog.

I should RTFM :-) - Thank you for the clarification.

-Mike


--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Max" <maxcatterwell@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike!
> It records in two gig 'bites' or smaller, up to the capacity of the card. I
don't recall having to 'set' anything; I think it does this by default. Mine is
out in the car at the moment, and as it's pouring with rain and I'm not dressed
(!) I won't be running out there to check!
> Cheers
> Max
>
>
> --- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rooke" <yg@> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a 2GB Limit with the LS10? or will it actually carry on past this
point to the capacity of the card, or produce multiple 2gb or smaller files? I
didnt find where to set this in the menu, the LS11 has such a feature as far as
I understood.
> >
> > If it will indeed record none stop, Ill try it for the next rig test.
> >
> > -Cheers,
> > Mike
> >
> > --- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Max" <maxcatterwell@> wrote:
> > >
> > > From blog:
> > > My original intention was to record using the Olympus LS10, but at the
last minute I found it could not record continuously splitting files as it
records.
> > >
> > > ?? Mine does.
> > > Max
> > >
> >
>

At 3:31 PM +0000 11/23/09, Mike Rooke wrote:
>
>
>Hi,
>On the subject of not so small rigs to use with portable recorders,
>I've played around with a set of ears I made in the Summer. Having
>recently brought the Rode Blimp I decided to test how the whole
>contraption faired in moderate rain for over four hours. I left the
>rig outside for 12+ hours and cherry picked the best rain /
>birdcalls / quiet sections to present this demonstration of the
>device.
>
>My blog entry includes three audio samples, the first is probably a
>good place to start listening.
>
><http://www.urlme.net/blog/?p=1119>http://www.urlme.net/blog/?p=1119
>
>Kind Regards,
>Mike.
>

Hi Mike--
I learned a lot from playing with the variety in your material.
Thanks for sharing. Each scene/situation seems to demand very
different settings. Adjustments to the center/side balance doesn't
have much (or any?) effect on true localization or position between
the speakers. That encoding has to be created by the stereo array in
the field. When I push up the volume of the center, its very "center
heavy" proportional to the amount of HF content there is. The two
mics have to be "looking" at that stuff in the center. There are
couple of bonus hors d'oeuvres with M-S adjustment, but no free
lunch. Nice Array!

Adjust playback volume to your tastes:
https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/public/temporary/RookePSBRig_CenterImaging_Sor3\
AAC256.mov
(1mb QuickTime Movie)

Rob D.



--


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Rooke" <yg@...> wrote:

>
> I should RTFM :-) - Thank you for the clarification.
>
> -Mike
No problem Mike; glad to be of help.
Max

Just had a quick listen. You can hear a few notes from Common Potoo at the
beginning and the buffetting wing noise later in the recording is probably
Blue-throated Piping-Guan.

After a second listen, I forgot to add Pauraque (the upslurred whee-er)
throughout the first minute and it sounds like a Great Potoo at 1:34, fainter in
other spots. Common Potoo is quite audible at 1:21. Listen for the piping guan
at 1:50.

Regards,
Scott Connop

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6870399.ece#cid=OTC-RSS\
&attr=3392178

Closer to home,

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Seals+to+be+repelled+from+gas+pipeline's+route+\
before+mine+clearance/1135250983452

or

http://bit.ly/6B0tNe

-Mike.

--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, Kim Cascone <kim@...> wrote:
>
>
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6870399.ece#cid=OTC-RSS\
&attr=3392178
>

Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote:

> Just to note that the marantz PMD661 (and AFAIAC also
> the PMD660) DOES
> have built in microphones..

Thanks. Corrected. Traditionally the Marantz recorders were not meant for
primary recording with the built-in mics; instead they were used for slating and
such. I had forgotten they even had them! However the PMD661 apparently has
useful microphones, which I did not realise.

-- robin

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi evrybody,   i m manoj .  I m trying to make a binuaral head
using ECMs. I would like to make stereo preamp.  Can anyone help?
    I tried biasing the ECM with 1.5 TO 9V  DC supply And recorded
on my FR2LE  with micpre full open .  The sensivity is quite good but
S/N ration is poor .  i checkced  using Yamahaa MSP5 monitors. also i
noticed,  with 9V supply sensitivity increased .
CAn any help me in the process of evaluating the impedance ande noise figures Of
my unit

________________________________





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
      Build a small battery box, or search for microphone battery box using
google there are a few circuits showing how it works (see below).

From the battery box the unbalanced output plugs into the FR2LE using XLR / Male
plugs. NOT 1/4" TRS PLUGS -

If the line-input is used the output level will be far too low to be of use.

3V is a good figure for the latest ECM's, or 9V as detailed in the circuit
below:-

Here is a good example for a battery box:-
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/battbox.html

The battery box has ground, then left and right signal outputs.

Wire up 2 x XLR Male plugs.

Pin 1: Ground
Pin 2: Signal (here you take the left or right from the battery box)

Since I used a 3.5mm female socket, I wired a 3.5mm Plug to 2 x XLR Male Plugs
and
  connected both pin 1 on the XLR to the ground, and left / right to pin 2 (HOT)
- leave COLD unconnected.

This I know works with my FR2-LE with a 3V and 9V battery box.

It also keeps the preamp enabled in the FR2-LE, using a 1/4" plug will cause the
FR2-LE to be in line-input mode which isnt what you want..

Hope this helps.
Kind Regards,
Mike.


--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, Manoj Kathe <june61947@...> wrote:
>
> Hi evrybody,   i m manoj .  I m trying to make a binuaral head
> using ECMs. I would like to make stereo preamp.  Can anyone help?
>    I tried biasing the ECM with 1.5 TO 9V  DC supply And recorded
> on my FR2LE  with micpre full open .  The sensivity is quite good but
> S/N ration is poor .  i checkced  using Yamahaa MSP5 monitors. also i
> noticed,  with 9V supply sensitivity increased .
> CAn any help me in the process of evaluating the impedance ande noise figures
Of my unit
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> PMD661 apparently has useful microphones

indeed...

:)

m

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear list,

I would like to set-up a portable mic system to record during long
periods, suitable for outdoor locations.
Any ideas/examples about  all-weather proof diy enclosures for mics
(or affordable pro solutions) which are 'transparent'  enough sound-
wise ?

(firstly intending to use a couple of omnis Aevox ... we also have a
TetraMic which would be nice to use for this purpose if we find a
solution safe enough) .

any advice will be very much appreciated, thanks!

best,
p

-=-=-==------==-=----=---=-=-=-----------=---=-=---=-----
pablo sanz almoguera

http://www.20020.org
http://www.mediateletipos.net
http://www.artesonoro.org